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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: JustinL on Tuesday 07 July 09 11:57 BST (UK)
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I am hoping to help a colleague find out more about his ancestors’ involvement in WWI. Family lore tells of 9 sons (out of 14 children) being killed in action.
The Flint family lived in Ashton New road in Clayton (East Manchester). The war memorial at St. Cross in Clayton bears these names: Dyson Flint, John Flint, Hugh Flint, W.E. Flint.
Dyson was most definitely my colleague’s great-uncle. He served as one of the Manchester Scottish in the 15th Royal Scots, was awarded the MM in 1917 and died on 26 August 1917 probably during the fighting east of Hargicourt (on the Hindenburg Line). His parents were Albert and Alice Hannah Flint.
Dyson had a brother named John (b. 1890 Clayton), but whether this is the man named on the WM is unknown.
How, and if, Hugh and W.E. Flint are related to Dyson is also unknown.
Dyson had the following brothers who would have been old enough to serve:
James, b. 1889
Albert Edward, b. 1891
Leonard, b. 1897
Thomas Buller, b. 1900
I (and my colleague) would appreciate any help or advice.
Rgds,
Justin
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1901
RG13 3766 43 23
307 Ashton New rd
Albert 33 Fish poultry and fruit salesman
Alice H 38
James 11
Albert E 9
Dyson 7 all bn Manchester
I wonder where the other two you mention are?
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This could wel be the Thomas B, bn 1900
Rg13 3765 117 26
Flint Street, Clayton
James H 25 'something' cutter bn Clayton
Mary 23 wife bn bradford
Thomas B 1 bn Clayton
next door
Esther Flint wid 64 something cutter Employer bn Manch.
Thomas 34 son unm bn Manch.
Ellen 23 dtr unm bn Man.
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Have you looked through all the Flints on
http://www.cwgc.org/
certainly Dyson (son of Alice and Albert) are on here
and I saw Hugh too I think.
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That really has surprised me! Were there really only three sons living with Albert and Alice in 1901!
My colleague was intending to buy the 1901 and/or 1911 census returns for his family at the weekend. From my searches on both sites I had identified (possibly erroneously) a much larger family, corresponding to Flint family lore.
My colleague's gf was Nelson Flint born in 1906 in Clayton (RD Prestwich).
I have looked through the CWGC, but few of the records name the parents and only Dyson's match. Unless of course Nelson was not Albert's and Alice's son...
Justin
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1891 gives a bit more on the family
1891
RG12 3282 52 25
43 Barrington Rd Droylesden
Albert 23 Poulterer bnNewton
ALice H 28 bn Clayton
James 1 bn Clayton
Victor 19 brother Fish dealer bn Newton
Ullyses 18 Fustion? Cutter bn Newton
Next door but one:
John 21 Poulterer
Ruth 24
John 7mths all bn Manchester
So I dont think the John bn 1890 is a brother of Dyson at all. Possibly a cousin, if Albert and John (age 21) are brothers
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I would strongly recommend that your friend gets his granfathers birth cert to ascertain who his parents were!
Or at least get him on 1911....
Oct/Nov/Dec 1906
Nelson Flint
Prestwich ref 8d 357
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1881 helps get it all together a bit more.
I am now pretty certain the John on 1891 was Albert's brother.
RG11 4142 115 11
Flint Buildings, Droylsden
John 51 ?Beer seller? or ?something setter? bn Man.
Betsy 34 wife
Mary 15 dtr
Albert 13 son
John 11 son
Victor 9 son
Ullyses 7 son
Beatrice 6 dtr bn Beswick
Edward 5 son bn Beswick
everyone else bn Manchester
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1871 indicates that John had been married before Betsy.
Although his age says 31, by looking at the children ages and also at his age in 1881, I think he was probably 41! We will se whan I move on to 1861 in a mo
RG10 4035 122 16
Burnley Street Manchester
John 31 Builder
Betsy 23
Alfred 20 Brick setter
Amelia 10
Mary 5
Albert 3
Arthur 17 Brick setter
John Flint Junior 1
all bn Manchester.
It is looking as if, as so often happens, your family folkore has an element of truth in it, but gemerations are muddled.
John senior could well have had about 14 children from his two marriages. And he could well have seen 9 of his family killed in action, but it looks as if they were grandsons, and not all brothers.
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1861 is confusing, as John's age and wife's are indexed as 21. The image could well be 21, but is not that clear and could just as well be 31!!! Again childrens ages suggest both he and wife Mary are older
RG9 2937 93 38
Burnley Street Manchester
John 31/21 Fustion? Cutter
Mary 31/21 wife bn Derbyshire
Alfred 10
Arthur 7
Amelia 2
Robert Jackson, wife and children all boarders
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Wow. Thank you very much indeed, you make it look so easy.
There was certainly a very complicated web of Flints in the area. I shall urge my colleague to buy the necessary documents.
The mystery still remains surrounding Hugh and W.E.?
I would speculate that the parents of Thomas B Flint were James Hunston and Mary Alice (nee Yates) who married in Prestwich in 1898.
Justin
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I cant get anywhere on 1851. Ceetainly plenty of Flints around, they were a local family!
Shall I see how many of John and Mary/then Betsy's children I can trace forwrds?
I think we have found:
first marriage -
Alfred
Arthur
Amelia
second marraige-
Mary
Albert
John
Victor
Ullyses
Beatrice
Edward
We have already got John, Albert, Victor and Ullyses on 1891 and saw that John married Ruth and the John (bn 1870), and that ALbert married ALice and had Dyson, James and Albert E, and that Victor and Ullyses were still single as at 1891.
Here are MAry and Beatrice in 1891
RG12 3282 27 16
113 Clayton Lane
John William Charlesworth 28 overworker cotton goods bn Manchester
MAry wife 25 bn Newton Heath
John William 3 son bn Clayton
Beatrice Flint 16 unm ssiter in law bn Newton Heath
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Doesnt look as if Victor is father of any of the others
1901
RG13 3325 152 19
Sale Cheshire
Victor 29 Fish and game salesman bn Manchester
Annie wife 29 bn Droylsden
a servant (forgot to note name!)
Archibald Burns nephew 12 butcher shopkeeper bn Droysden
so looks as if another sister married a Burns.
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or maybe not. I thnk Archibald must be a nephew on Victor's wife's side as he doesnt fit into the Flints
He is on 1891 with parents Archibald and Flora, who seem to be the ones who married 1888, her being Flora McDonald.
Vicotrs wife, if the 1893 marraige on FreeBMD is his, was Annie Hollingsworth, so not sure how it all fits together there.
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Ullyses is still single in 1901at RG13 3766 17 26, a boarder.
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Arthur has a family by 1901 - with all the same names! Just to confuse us, as these children would be old enough to serve in WW1. (Useful to look and see if any Flintso n CWGC were sons of Arthur and Teresa)
RG13 3539 27 5
Sefton Street Southport
Arthur 48 Fruiterer bn Manch
Teresa 49 bn Liverpool
John 15
Albert 13
Arthur 8
Oswald 6 all children bn Southport
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You're doing a fabulous job! Thank you. I had to go to a couple of meetings.
The need for my colleague to invest in the 1911 census is becoming more apparent. I shall try to encourage him again.
We're up to eight potential WWI servicemen!
Can you check who are the parents of
Edith Flint, b. Q3 1893 Clayton (Ashton 8d 486)
Leonard Flint, b. Q3 1897 Clayton (Prestwich 8d 396)
Pauline Flint, b. Q4 1899 Clayton (Prestwich 8d 338)
All appear in 1901 census.
Justin
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Indeed!
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Hugh may have been the son of Richard and Mary Flint.
I have found the family in the 1881 census at the 'back of Ashton New Road': RG11 4042 130 41
Richard Flint, b. c1854 Clayton Droylsden, o. carter
and Mary ?, b. c1851 Wales
Children:
Thomas Flint, b. c1872 Clayton Droylsden
John Edward Flint, b. c1875 Clayton Droylsden
James Flint, b. c1878 Clayton Droylsden
Hugh Flint, b. c1880 Clayton Droylsden
Justin
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Parents of Edith, Leonard (Lennard) and Pauline (Paulina) are John (31) and Ruth (34). John is a Beer Retailer (own account/at home). The address looks like 8 Garner St and would appear to lie off North Rd, Clayton
There is also a son John (10).
RG13; Piece 3765; Folio 112; Page 16
Phil
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I've just had a look at SDGW and found the following entry, if it's any help:
William Edward Flint
Gunner 1366
RHA & RFA (TF)
Born: Bradford
Enlisted: Manchester
Died 21/10/15; At Sea
CWGC entry is here: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=681119 (http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=681119)
Phil
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Thanks very much, Phil.
Have to see how, and if, he fits into the Clayton families.
Justin
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William Edward Flint, Gunner 1366
Enlisted 13th April 1914
Age on enlistment: 17 years 4 months
Occupation: Warehouseman
Address: 62 Clayton St, Clayton
Next of kin: Mrs Lucy Jane Flint (Mother)
Died of dysentry on the Hospital Ship "Karapara" on 21/10/15
Buried at sea
Phil
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Possibly William's birth:
William Edward Flint
Births March Qu. 1897
Manchester 8d 216
Possibly his parents marriage:
Marriages December Qu. 1893
Thomas Flint and on the same page, Lucy Jane Hughes
Manchester 8d 318
Phil
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hmmmm going to keep this bookmarked, I have Flints in the same area, but I cant see any of 'my' names so far.
Mine originate from Bollington in Macclesfield, moved to Manchester areas.
Gaille
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Phil,
Thank you.
Where did you find those details? Does your source cast any light on John and Hugh Flint?
In the meantime, the 1911 census has shown that my colleague descends from James Hunston Flint and Mary Alice nee Yates. He was a green grocer in Flint Street, which was apparently named after him. I cannot see yet how he fits into the wider Flint clan.
Justin
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I'll start a new thread on the Lancashire board.
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In the meantime, the 1911 census has shown that my colleague descends from James Hunston Flint and Mary Alice nee Yates. He was a green grocer in Flint Street, which was apparently named after him. I cannot see yet how he fits into the wider Flint clan.
See my reply no 2
That looks like the family.
Over the censuses several have lived in Flint Street, havent they? Seems the family was large and well known locally.
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Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1898
Prestwich 8d 716
James Hunston Flint
one of brides Mary ALice Yates
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Hello,
Yes, that was the family in 1901. However, I still cannot find him in 1881.
Justin
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Getting marriage cert would hopefully give name of father.
I cant see a birth registered for him under James Hunston Flint. I did wonder if he was born before parents married and registered as Hunston, a mothers maiden name.There are a couple of James Hunstons at the right time-ish.
However I couldnt find a subsequent Hunston/Flint marriage to back this up.
I did find possibles for him on earlier censuses with parents Richard and ... cant remember! Living at Ashton New Rd too, so I was hopeful of a link.
Sorry, I was working on this, got called away and got sidetracked when I came back, so have completely lost my train of thought ( not difficult!)
But if I remember rightly there is nothing glaringly obvious, so his marriage cert with any clues it might give about his father, I beleive, must be the next step. If father is Richard, then those censuses will be worth looking at.
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Just noticed you have a new thread following this line! So I 'll put anything else (unlikely!) on there.
But I did see on new thread that a Flint / Eshter hUnson marriage had been found.
MAkes me think that Esther was James Hunston Flints mum - and in my reply no 2, the Esther living next door to James H is his widowed Mum.
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Justin,
William Edward Flint's service record has survived and is on A***y.
I have not been able to find a Medal Index Card for him, so far, on either NA or A***y, but his medal entitlement is on the service record.
I haven't had a chance to look for John or Hugh yet.
Phil
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Justin,
This is probably your Hugh:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1632094
SDGW has the following to add:
Born: Clayton
Enlisted: Manchester
Killed in Action
I can't find a surviving service record for him.
He was awarded the British War and Victory medals, so didn't go overseas prior to 1916 and most likely not before early 1917. Possibly a former 5th Bn Territorial.
The 1881 Census you posted with parents, Richard and Mary, certainly looks like the right one.
In 1901 he appears to be lodging with his brother, Thomas, in Ardwick and is a Gas Engineer's Labourer. (RG13 3677 39 25)
In 1911, going by the index, he is with wife Mary Jane (nee Bromley) and children Alice, Ethel and Hugh in the Chorlton area.
I believe he may have been married twice, his first wife dying in childbirth.
If you want any BMD details, let me know.
Phil
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Phil,
Thanks very much for the latest info. His children, like so many at the time, did not have an easy time.
I'm still struggling to see how Richard Flint fits into the main Flint clan. Once that is clearer I may press on to gather more BMD info.
Would I be right in thinking that Hugh's older brothers were too old to have been called up?
Justin
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Leonard and John were brothers, actually Leonard was my Grandfather and John my great uncle and he is the person who died. Leonard served in the war too, but survived with two medals. The rest will be cousins. Apparently the Flints were well known business people in the area and Flint St was named after my great, grandfather. All the other businesses owned by Flints are all related, as are the families