RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 07 July 09 02:37 BST (UK)

Title: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 07 July 09 02:37 BST (UK)
Hello,

I am researching the descendents of a Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 and Janet BLACK b.~1871.  Nathaniel, Janet and their three children immigrated from Lanarkshire, Scotland to Australia around 1927.

Nathaniel GOLD died in North Sydney, NSW Australia on May 12, 1940.  According to his death certificate he was buried on May 14, 1940 in the Presbyterian Cemetery Northern Suburbs and there were three children of marriage Effie 43, Andrew 42 and Nathaniel 32 (Living, none Deceased)

I have obtained the death and marriage records for his son Andrew GOLD b.1897 d.1953.  Andrew married a Heather Jean Pym PENNANT b.~1905 in 1927 in Sydney, NSW; however, according to section 8 of Andrew’s death record it stated “no issue” which leads me to believe that Andrew and Heather had no children.  Andrew GOLD was buried in the Congregational Cemetery Gore Hill.

While I have been successful in locating records for Nathaniel and his son Andrew I have been unsuccessful in locating any Australian records for Nathaniel’s wife Janet BLACK b. ~1871 or his other two children Euphemia (Effie) Macpherson GOLD b.1895 or Natalie (Nathaniel) Oman Gold b.1907.

Any direction or assistance anyone can provide would be appreciated.

Thank you for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel Gold b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 07 July 09 03:35 BST (UK)
Hi there,
Is this a possibilty for  a marriage of the younger Nathaniel?

14712/1934  GOLD,  NATHAN to ROSENBERG  LILY D @ SYDNEY 

Sue

Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 07 July 09 04:46 BST (UK)
The National Archives of Australia has a WW2  record for a
 Henry Francis Nathaniel Gold Born in Sydney  but a few years  before  you say  when  the family arrived
I  will not post his date of birh here as he may still be alive.
he enlisted in Sydney and gave his NOK as Nathan Gold.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
search as guest easy to find  the record put on Nathan Gold
Jenn
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 07 July 09 05:25 BST (UK)
Hello Sue,

Thank you for your prompt response… It is definitely a possibility so I’ve ordered it from the NSW Registry Office; however, I’m thinking it might be a dead end… Here’s my reasoning:

According to the birth record obtained via the General Register Office of Scotland the individual in question was born as Natalie and listed as Female; however, on the NSW death record for Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 (the elder) it refers to the individual as Nathaniel which would lead one to believe the individual is Male?  Hmmm.

Another reason why this might be a dead end is that I have uncovered a number of individuals with the name Nathan GOLD; however in each case the individual has been of Jewish descent.  There is probably a good chance that the Nathan GOLD who married Lily ROSENBERG was of Jewish descent while the Nathaniel/Natalie GOLD I am researching is of Scottish Presbyterian descent.

I have also discovered two death records for a Nathan GOLD on the NSW Registry Office website; one in 1962 and the other in 1963 which leads me to believe there are other individuals with the name Nathan GOLD in NSW at the time.  In both cases the father listed is Morris GOLD.

Thank you for the lead… I will let you know what the marriage record for Nathan and Lily indicates.

Cheers!

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 07 July 09 05:39 BST (UK)
Hello Jenn,

Thank you for the link and the prompt response…

Henry Francis Nathaniel Gold was born in NSW where my Natalie/Nathaniel was born in Lanarkshire, Scotland; however, I did find a record for his/her brother using your link:

GOLD ANDREW : Service Number - NX139569 : Date of birth - 05 Jul 1898 : Place of birth - CARLUKE SCOTLAND : Place of enlistment - H Q 1 AUST DIV NSW : Next of Kin - GOLD HEATHER

Do you know how and/or if one can obtain these records?

Thank you for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 07 July 09 06:05 BST (UK)
I am sorry I meant to welcome to RootsCHAT

You have to click on the "Control symbol NX139569" from there you will have to request a copy for about $25.00

Incidently the Ryerson index shows a GOLD Morris Obituary 1919-2004 Death  Horseradish entrepreneur .

Jenn
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 07 July 09 06:26 BST (UK)
Can I  ask  you  do you  know for a fact  that all  the family  came to Australia in 1927,  my  thoughts are perhaps Janet died in Scotland?

Who was  the informant on  the death certificate for Nathaniel Gold?  It  should state if he married or widowed.   I  checked Norrhern Suburbs  and can see Nathaniel burial  but none of  the other names you mention.  ( I note Andrew was buried in Gore Hill)

Jenn
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: judb on Tuesday 07 July 09 06:36 BST (UK)
Have you searched the NSW BMD site?  There is the death of a Janet Gold in 1946 in Sydney, parents James and Euphemia. (Janet's mother's name could be a tie-in with the daughter's name - 'Effie'  :-\
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Using a transcription agent for NSW certificates is usually cheaper and quicker than ordering them from the Registry.  these are accredited agents and will email you the results. They are listed on the NSW BMD site:

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToSearch.htm#TranscriptionAgent

Cheers, Judith


Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: judb on Tuesday 07 July 09 06:48 BST (UK)
NSW Electoral Roll 1930
Nat (manager) GOLD and Jannie Black GOLD living at 7 Bayview Ave Mosman (a suburb of Sydney)

1936 Electoral Roll
Nathaniel GOLD states 'no occupation' and Janet GOLD at 325 Ernest St Cammeray (also suburb of Sydney.

I only have access to Electoral Rolls for these two years.

Judith
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 07 July 09 08:47 BST (UK)
Hi,
Judith has found a likely death for Janet above, but I wondered about this as another poss. From Ryerson.

I noted the electoral roll refers to Janet as JANNIE in 1930 per Judith


GOLD Jane (Janey) Death notice 17MAR1969 Death aged 88   Sydney Morning Herald 18MAR1969

Now it does make her a young mother for Andrew, but just possible.  ;D
Sue
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 07 July 09 18:19 BST (UK)
Good Morning,

Wow! Everyone has been very busy down under... sleeping on an issue really does work  ;)

OK on to business… I too had discovered the 1936 Australian Electoral Roll listing both Nathaniel Gold and his wife Janet Gold. This is how I definitively knew that Janet had also made the trek to Australia; however, I did not have the 1930 Election Roll. Thank you!

The 1894 marriage record for Nathaniel Gold and Janet Black lists Janet’s parents as Adam Black (deceased) and Janet Clelland (deceased).  Janet Black was 23 yrs when she married Nathaniel.  Perhaps her parents died when she was an infant and James and Euphemia raised her?  On that note I quickly did a search of the 1881 Scottish Census and what do you know…

Dwelling: Clyde Street, Carluke, Lanark, Scotland
Adam Black; Border; Unmarried; 36; M; Slater; Lanark, Lanark, Scotland
Euphemia Black; Wife; Married; 31; F; Wife; Lanark, Lanark, Scotland
James Black; Head; Married; 32; M; Slater; Lanark, Lanark, Scotland
Janet Black; Daughter; n/a; 9; F; Scholar; Lesmahagow, Lanark, Scotland

It would now seem very plausible that the 1946 death record found by Judith is in fact my Janet Black.  I will order the record from the NSW Registrar and let you know what it comes back with.

As for Euphemia (Effie) Macpherson GOLD b.1895 and Natalie (Nathaniel) Oman Gold b.1907… It is very possible that they did not make the trip to Australia as Euphemia would have been 32 yrs and Natalie would have been 20 yrs in 1927 and possibly already married… The hunt for Euphemia and Natalie continues… ???

A very warm thank you to everyone for your time and assistance… 

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 07 July 09 23:25 BST (UK)
Quote
It would now seem very plausible that the 1946 death record found by Judith is in fact my Janet Black.  I will order the record from the NSW Registrar and let you know what it comes back with.

Are you aware  that you can order certificates from a transcription agent in NSW.

An easier method, quicker and cheaper especially for family history.

I  use Laurie Turtle I  have found him excellent, but it is just a matter of choice.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html

Sorry  see that Judb has allready informed you of  this in reply no 7

Have you  found  any information  re  their immigration to Australia as yet?

Jenn

Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 07 July 09 23:55 BST (UK)
Hi Arthur,

Nathaniel and his wife did not travel with their children.

They departed London 28 July 1927 aboard the BORDA

GOLD Nat 55 Retired Country of last permant residence Scotland intended permanent residence in Australia last address in UK Dalmore, Helensburgh NB
GOLD Mrs Janet 55 wife "

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 07 July 09 23:59 BST (UK)
Well found Kris :D

I  wonder why  at  that age  they  decided  to emmigrate?  perhaps  the son Andrew  was allready  here?  or one of  the other children.

Jenn
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 08 July 09 00:25 BST (UK)
Sorry, I am not spotting anything which seems right for the children. There are two other Nathans arriving one born 1894 arriving 1913 the other born 1912 arriving 1913. The marriage mentioned is possibly one of these chaps.  :'(The only arrival I can see for an Andrew of the right age does not seem to fit.

He departed London 7 July 1925 aboard the BALRANALD

GOLD Andrew 27 Farmer English Last address in UK Wall Farm Beabourne Kent.

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 08 July 09 00:29 BST (UK)
I thought the same thing Jenn, quite old to be immigrating, so I suspected they must be joining a child/children but I am just not seeing anything on the children's arrival. I haven't looked at the Electoral Rolls yet to see how many Andrew GOLD's we have in NSW  :-\
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Wednesday 08 July 09 01:37 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone,

Wow! what a flurry of activity... I'm truly impressed!

Kris: Thank you for taking the time to locate the immigration information for Nathaniel and Janet... I had made an attempt many months ago and came up with nothing.  Here in Canada, the government has immigration manifests free on-line... is this the same in Australia?  Also, according to the 1953 NSW death record for Andrew Gold he had resided in Australia for 30 yrs which would put his arrival some time around 1923 which was 4 yrs prior to his parents.

Thank you again everyone for your time and assistance!

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Wednesday 08 July 09 01:43 BST (UK)
Hi Arthur,

Many passenger lists are free Online, some are pay per view.

If you care to peruse the NSW Resources you find listed all the wonderful free resources we are aware of listed. 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html

Have Fun  ;D

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Wednesday 08 July 09 23:51 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone,

Thanks to the information you have all provided, I think I’ve pieced together the puzzle for Janet GOLD (nee BLACK) wife of Nathaniel GOLD.

Janet Black CLELLAND was born on Apr 11, 1871 in Lesmahagow, Lanarkshire.  Janet was the daughter of Adam BLACK and Janet CLELLAND.  It turns out that Janet CLELLAND (Janet’s mother) died on Apr 21, 1871 (10 days after her daughter’s birth)

Five months later, on Sep 21, 1871, James BLACK (Adam’s brother) married a Euphemia MacPherson and adopted Janet Black CLELLAND as their child and dropped the last name CLELLAND.

Adam BLACK (Janet Black CLELLAND’s birth father) died on Jan 29, 1886 in Carluke, Lanarkshire at the age of 41.  Janet would have been 15 yrs.

Thank you everyone for providing me with a second set of eyes.  Sometimes that’s all one needs to break through the walls  ;D

Also, I stumbled across a wonderful site for the Gore Hill Cemetery which allows one to search by an individual’s name:

http://mapping.willoughby.nsw.gov.au/exponare/gore-hill-cemetery.html

Here’s what I found for Andrew Gold:

Name Gold. Andrew
Denomination Congregational
Date of death 10/08/1953, (08/08/1953)
Burial date 11/08/1953
Age at death 57
Section D
Plot 42
Information 418 Pacific Highway Crows Nest. Also J.Finch

Thank you again everyone for your time and kind consideration.

Cheers!

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: judb on Thursday 09 July 09 02:26 BST (UK)
Sydney Morning Herald, 15 May 1940 
Death Notice
GOLD - May 12, 1940, Nathaniel, dearly beloved husband of Janet  and loved father of Dodo and Natalie, Andrew, also loved father-in-law of Heather.  Privately interred May 14, 1940

Sydney Morning Herald, August 10, 1953
Death Notice
GOLD Andrew (Jerry) - August 8 at Repatriation General Hospital, Concord, beloved husband of Heather, and loved Father of Janet.

GOLD Andrew - August 8, loved brother-in-law of Dorothy and the late Rex Finch, uncle of Dick and Janet, Jock, David and Elizabeth.

GOLD Andrew - August 8, loved brother-in-law of Harry and Millie Angel, uncle of Bob and Mary, Roger and June

There is a funeral notice in the SMH August 11 but you already have that information.

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 09 July 09 04:22 BST (UK)
Well done,  that would  confirm  the daughter Natalie perhaps Dodo is a pet name for Dorothy.

I  cannot locate  any  marriage in NSW to a Rex Finch nor a death of Rex Finch.  I  wonder if  both the daughters stayed in Scotland and married there.

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia
Post by: goldnplomp on Thursday 09 July 09 05:57 BST (UK)
Judith… I’m speechless... You have far exceeded my expectations!

Here’s how the dots fit together…

Heather TENNENT (wife of Andrew GOLD) was the daughter of Louis Charles TENNANT (Optician) and Jean DUFFUS.  Louis and Jean had the following children:

Amelia TENNANT b.1892 d.1956 married Henry R (Harry) ANGEL in 1923
Dorothy R. TENNANT b.1894 married Richard P. (Rex) FINCH in 1922
Ian Charles D. TENNANT b.1898 d.1968 married Doris M. KEEBLEWHITE in 1923
Heather J. P. TENNANT b.1905 married Andrew (Jerry) GOLD in 1927

I now know that Andrew GOLD and Heather TENNANT had a daughter Janet ;D however, it seems as though Euphemia (Doto?) and Nathalie remain elusive  ???

The hunt continues but the gap is definitely closing.

The sun has set here in BC so I’ll bid you farewell ‘til tomorrow.

Cheers!

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Tuesday 21 July 09 18:23 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for your assistance...  I was able to tie up a number of loose ends ;D

Cheers!

Art
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PickledOnion on Sunday 15 August 10 20:01 BST (UK)
I'm coming very late to this conversation to add something about Euphemia Gold...

She did not go to Australia. My mother (now 82) remembers her as an old schoolfriend of her mother, Janet Young. My mother knew her as "Auntie Fame", so Fame, rather than Effie to her friends. Rather shockingly for the 1930s, she wore trousers, smoked cigarettes, and drove a motor car. My mother thinks she was married with 2 sons, one of whom taught my mother to ride a bike. She lived in Braidwood, near Carluke. Nothing to verify this except my mother's memories, and I cannot find any marriage record, but I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Monday 16 August 10 22:41 BST (UK)
Hello PickledOnion,

I’m not sure how you stumbled across my posting but I’m so glad you did as I have been looking for Euphemia in England, Canada and USA with little to no leads  ???

I to have been unable to locate any marriage and/or death records for Euphemia in Scotland which has made me think that she moved out of the country… I did however; find a potential 1950 marriage record for Natalie Gold; however, there is no image currently available and it puts Natalie in her early 40’s which seems kind of old.

I noticed through ScotlandsPeople that there were a few Euphemia Gold’s in Scotland during the early to mid 1900’s so I am hesitant to definitively conclude that our two Euphemia’s are one and the same.… I’m wondering if you have any additional bits of information which may be used to narrow this gap...

Nathaniel Gold (Euphemia’s Father who moved to Australia to join his son) and Andrew Gold (Euphemia’s Grandfather) owned a Tile Works Company in Carluke under the company name of Gold & Co…  The family lived in Carluke in a house on Clyde Street called ‘Westfield’… I’m wondering if this additional information rings any bells.

Thank you for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PickledOnion on Tuesday 17 August 10 21:05 BST (UK)
My grandmother lived at 168 Mill Road Carluke according to the 1901 census, and the Golds lived in Westfield, Clyde street, about a half mile away. Jane was about 4 years older than "Auntie Fame". Jane's father, Andrew, was a gardener and nurseryman, so it's not inconceivable that he was the gardener at Westfield. Euphemia visited my grandmother when she was living in Cambusnethan, which is where my mother remembers seeing her. My mother can't remember much more, except that Auntie Fame was incredibly glamorous to her young eyes. I guess Euphemia would have been in her mid-30s then, and my mother was about 7 or 8.
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Monday 23 August 10 21:43 BST (UK)
Hello PickledOnion,

Thank you for the additional information...  Euphemia’s family historically came from Cambusnethan so Euphemia would have had a multitude of cousins and I’m guessing family friends in the area.  Based on the additional information you’ve provided, it would now seem very plausible that our Euphemia’s are one and the same...

So... what happened to Euphemia?  By the 1930’s, while a few branches of the Gold family stayed in Scotland, her parents along with a number of other branches of the family, had left Scotland for greener pastures in either England, Australia, Canada or the USA.  Natalie, her sister, I’m guessing remained in Scotland; however, this also remains a mystery...

Could it be that Euphemia and perhaps her sister later in life also move to greener pastures?  Perhaps England ???  More research required.

If anything else comes to mind please let me know.

Thank you again for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Sunday 05 September 10 17:13 BST (UK)
Hi there,
             Finally glad to find out where this gentleman went to. I have been working on the history of Carluke Bowling Club in Scotland for its 150th anniversary in 2014 and he was a past President in 1905.
     My main interest in trying to trace him was to find a living relative who may well have a better photograph of him than I have at present.
     Do you know of any living relatives that I can contact.
    I don't think I can add any further info on what you have already, apart from the fact that he was a tile manufacturer originally, but later became a County Councillor in Lanark for many years, first standing in 1904.
    The puzzling thing for me was that I have viewed a death index that shows a Janet Gold (aged 76) and an Andrew Gold (aged 57) died in Carluke in 1961. Could Janet have come back to Scotland? Maybe the Andrew was a relationas the age would have been different. Perhaps this Janet is a relation also.
   Hope this adds a little more to your info. If I can add more I will be in touch. Hope you can assist with a living relative
                  Allan
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Monday 06 September 10 19:55 BST (UK)
Hello Allan,

I’m glad you stumbled across my posting... Unfortunately, I cannot connect you with any ‘living’ direct descendants of Nathaniel... generally when it comes to distant ‘living’ relatives; I respect their privacy by not digging too deep...  The only possible direct ‘living’ descendants for Nathaniel would be through Euphemia, Nathalie and/or Andrew Gold’s daughter Janet Gold in Australia; however, without marriage/death records, I’m at a loss for all three... ??? With that being said, I do know that David Just Gold (Nathaniel’s brother) remained in Lanarkshire, Scotland for which there may be some ‘living’ relatives in the Lanarkshire area who may be able to assist you...   I’ll dig a little deeper to see if I can provide you with any leads.

On a personal note, I would be very interested in any pictures and/or information pertaining to the Gold Family which you uncover during your research as I would very much like to add this information to my research.  Please feel free to contact me directly through my RootsChat user ID.

Thank you for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur R. Gold
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Thursday 09 September 10 20:24 BST (UK)
Hi Arthur, Thanks for the very prompt reply. I will try the brothers line to see if it provides any results. I have also been trying the two daughters of Nathaniel, but so far they appear to have disappeared completely. I wondered if they had gone to stay with family when the parents went to Australia, so I started to trace family and found an interesting fact. Normally in those days, the first son to a marriage was named after the mans father, but in Nathaniel's case, it was not to be as his father was Andrew. His mother, Catherine Miller Oman had a brother Nathaniel Daniel Isaac Oman, and that is how Nathaniel had all those names. I am about to purchase a new scanner, and as soon as I do, I will send you the only photo I have of Nathaniel. If you wish, I could possibly send you a photo of his house, "Westfield" in Clyde St, Carluke as it's only a quarter of a mile from my house. Will be in touch as soon as.
   Allan
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Friday 10 September 10 08:54 BST (UK)
Hello Allan,
I hope your research is fruitful as this branch of the family has been a challenge for me to research...  In fact, it was only by chance that I discovered that some of the family had moved to Australia...

Regarding your observation about typical Scottish naming conventions, Nathaniel was not the first born son of Andrew GOLD b.~1837 d.1898 and Catherine Miller OMAN b.1833 d.1891... he was in fact the second of six children.  The children were as follows:
• Andrew GOLD b.1867 d.1899 (Andrew died at 32yrs in Gibraltar)
• Nathaniel Daniel Isaac Oman GOLD b.1868 d.1940 (Nathaniel died at 71yrs in Australia)
       o m. Janet Black CLELLAND b.1871 d.1946
              Children b.1867 d.1899: Euphemia GOLD, Andrew GOLD, Natalie GOLD
• Isabella Miller Morton GOLD b.1870 d.1878 (Isabella died at 7yrs in Carluke)
• George James GOLD b.1871 d.1875 (George died at 3yrs in Carluke)
• John Miller Morton GOLD b.1873 d.1895 (John died at 22yrs in Carluke)
• David Just GOLD b.1875 d.1958 (David died at 83yrs in Shotts)
        o m. Eliza McMILLAN
              Children:  John Miller Morton GOLD (note: there may have been additional children)
        o m. Grace Marshall PETTIGREW b.1887 d.1937
              Children: John Pettigrew GOLD, David Just GOLD (note: there may have been additional children)

You are correct about the source of Nathaniel’s name... Dr. Nathaniel Daniel Isaac OMAN (Catherine Miller OMAN’s brother) was a General Practitioner in the Carluke area... I do not have a death record for Dr. OMAN but I do know that he practiced in Gibraltar for a period of time.  This is perhaps why Andrew GOLD b.1867 d.1899 was in Gibraltar at the time of his death  ???

Thank you for your kind offer to send me a photo of “Westfield”... if you do get a picture during your travels, I’d love a copy for my records.

It’s getting late and the sun has now set in BC... so ‘til next time...

Thank you again for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur R. Gold
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Thursday 30 September 10 15:43 BST (UK)
Hi Arthur,
  Just a little bit more for the puzzles. Firstly, David Just Gold's second marriage produced another two children. Jessie Marshall was born in 1921 and John Pettigrew had a twin brother Andrew born in 1924. Unfortunately, both twins died in 1927 but I have no details. I found a poem in January 1927 dedicated to her sons by Grace.
   Now, on to the missing daughters. I found in the library this morning, the obituary for James Black, Nathaniel's wife's father. He died in Carluke on 21/5/1920 aged 72. He apparently picked up a chill on a return visit to Mr and Mrs Gold in Kent, England. So Nathaniel and his wife must have been there around 1920. Perhaps that is where Effie and/or Natalie were for some period. However, in James' obituary the following week, there is a footnote to Canadian and Australian newspapers to please copy. That tends to suggest that there were family in both these countries in 1920. Could either of the girls have gone there, although Natalie would only have been 13 by then.  I have enclosed the 1914 Jubilee photo taken at Carluke Bowling Green in 1914. Nathaniel is the man in the back row, the 8th from the right, wearing what appears to be a straw hat. Hope you find it interesting. Will try fo the photo of Westfield soon.
     Allan Mathers 
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Thursday 21 October 10 15:17 BST (UK)
Hello Allan,
I hope your research is fruitful as this branch of the family has been a challenge for me to research...  In fact, it was only by chance that I discovered that some of the family had moved to Australia...

Regarding your observation about typical Scottish naming conventions, Nathaniel was not the first born son of Andrew GOLD b.~1837 d.1898 and Catherine Miller OMAN b.1833 d.1891... he was in fact the second of six children.  The children were as follows:
• Andrew GOLD b.1867 d.1899 (Andrew died at 32yrs in Gibraltar)
• Nathaniel Daniel Isaac Oman GOLD b.1868 d.1940 (Nathaniel died at 71yrs in Australia)
       o m. Janet Black CLELLAND b.1871 d.1946
              Children b.1867 d.1899: Euphemia GOLD, Andrew GOLD, Natalie GOLD
• Isabella Miller Morton GOLD b.1870 d.1878 (Isabella died at 7yrs in Carluke)
• George James GOLD b.1871 d.1875 (George died at 3yrs in Carluke)
• John Miller Morton GOLD b.1873 d.1895 (John died at 22yrs in Carluke)
• David Just GOLD b.1875 d.1958 (David died at 83yrs in Shotts)
        o m. Eliza McMILLAN
              Children:  John Miller Morton GOLD (note: there may have been additional children)
        o m. Grace Marshall PETTIGREW b.1887 d.1937
              Children: John Pettigrew GOLD, David Just GOLD (note: there may have been additional children)

You are correct about the source of Nathaniel’s name... Dr. Nathaniel Daniel Isaac OMAN (Catherine Miller OMAN’s brother) was a General Practitioner in the Carluke area... I do not have a death record for Dr. OMAN but I do know that he practiced in Gibraltar for a period of time.  This is perhaps why Andrew GOLD b.1867 d.1899 was in Gibraltar at the time of his death  ???

Thank you for your kind offer to send me a photo of “Westfield”... if you do get a picture during your travels, I’d love a copy for my records.

It’s getting late and the sun has now set in BC... so ‘til next time...

Thank you again for your time and kind consideration.

Arthur R. Gold

Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Friday 22 October 10 00:14 BST (UK)
Hello Allan,
I apologize for not responding sooner... I was out of town on business and have been playing catch-up ever since...

Thank you for the additional information on the children of David Just Gold and Grace Marshall Pettigrew.  I did not have record of Jessie Marshall Gold or John’s twin Andrew Gold. I am relatively confident that John Pettigrew Gold b.1924 did not die as a child as I located a 1990 death record for him which has him dying at the age of 66 in Glasgow.

Now on to the daughters of Nathaniel...  Based on the information you provided I did some additional digging around in southern England and uncovered a 1946 marriage record for an Effie M. Gold and a Frederick G. Leveridge in Hendon, Middlesex, England.   While this would make Effie 51yrs at the time of marriage, it is the only plausible lead I have had so far; hence, I have ordered a copy of the marriage record from GRO... With it being just after WWII, it’s possible that any previous spouse died during the war... Ironically while I was searching for Effie, I also found a 1946 and a 1949 marriage record for a Natalie Gold... the first in Warral, Cheshire and the other in Stepney, Middlesex, England.  I am waiting for the marriage record for Effie prior to ordering the others just in case it turns out to be a dead end.  I’ll let you know what the results are.

Thank you again for your time and kind consideration... I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the second set of eyes... 

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: Veryjelly on Saturday 27 November 10 18:26 GMT (UK)
David Just Gold's second marriage produced another two children. Jessie Marshall was born in 1921 and John Pettigrew had a twin brother Andrew born in 1924. Unfortunately, both twins died in 1927 but I have no details. I found a poem in January 1927 dedicated to her sons by Grace...Will try fo the photo of Westfield soon.
     Allan Mathers 
Hi, I've just seen your thread about Nathaniel Gold.  I am also researching the family and can confirm that Andrew Gold twin of John (known as Jackie) Gold is still living in England.  However Jessie his sister died in the 1950s in a car accident in South Africa where she was living and David Gold died perhaps 10 years ago - he was still living in Carluke.  The poem you refer to was written to celebrate the twins - their mother was a bit of a local poet and wrote often in the local papers and for the temperance movement I believe and I have transcripts of some of her work. 

I would be interested to hear more about what happened to Nathaniel - and why he went to Australia. I would also be interested in the photo of Westfield as Andrew's first job was emptying the gas meter at his uncle's house!
Hope to hear from you.
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Monday 29 November 10 21:08 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
              Been busy for the last few weeks on another part of my research, so didn't notice your posting. Glad to here that Andrew Gold is still alive in England. Difficult to trace living relatives. Do you have contact with him? I am desperate for a better photo of Nathaniel than the one I have, so if you have contact, could you try for a photo for me?
  On to Nathaniel. I don't know how much you have picked up from the threads before mine, but here's what I have:-
Nathaniel's Grandfather Andrew married Isabella Morton, dates unknown. They had a son, Andrew, d.o.b. unknown, but died 11/11/1898.
   He married Catherine Miller Oman in Edinburgh in June 1866.
   They had 6 children, viz., Andrew, b:1867, d:1899 in Gibralter. Nathaniel Daniel Isaac Oman, b: 22/7/1868, Linlithgow, d: 12/5/1940 in Sydney, Australia. Isabella Miller Morton, b: 1870, d: 1878 in Carluke. George James, b;1871, d: 1875 in Carluke, John Miller Morton, b: 1873, d: 1895 in Carluke. David Just, b:26/2/1875, Carluke, d:1958 in Shotts.
     Nathaniel married Janet Black 12/7/1894 and they had 3 children. Andrew, b: 5/7/1898 in Carluke, d: 11/8/1953 in Sydney, Australia. Euphemia MacPherson, b: 1896 and Natalie Oman, b: 13/12/1907.
    Brother David Just married Eliza McMillan in Glasgow in 1897 and thay had 1 son, John Miller Morton, b: 1898.
   David later married Grace Marshall Pettigrew in 1918 in Glasgow and they had the 4 children you already know about.
   Previuos threads by Goldenplomb will confirm Nathaniel's son Andrew married Heather Jean Pym Pennant in 1927 in Australia.
    I assume that his parents went to Australia to be close to their son and for the wedding as they travelled in time for it.
   Hope this helps. Will be in touch when I organise the photo of the house. Keep watching the threads as there may be more news on Nathaniel's 2 daughters.
 Allan
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Monday 29 November 10 22:10 GMT (UK)
Hello Veryjelly and Allan,

This has been the most active *COMPLETED* topic I have ever seen...   Like Allan, I’m not sure why Nathaniel would have left for Australia... except for the simple fact that his son Andrew lived there...  I’m sure climate also played a factor... we may never know.

Getting back to Nathalie and Euphemia, I received the 1946 G.R.O. marriage record for Effie M. Gold and Frederick G. Leveridge... Unfortunately, it was not the Effie we are looking for as the father on the marriage record is listed as William Emmanuel Gold (G.P.O. Inspector, Retired)... I guess I better get back to combing through records :-[

Like Allan, I would be very interested in knowing if you have had contact with Andrew Gold b.1924 as I have some unsolved family mysteries (pre 1800’s)  which I am trying to solve... perhaps Andrew holds the key?

Thank you for your time and kind considerations.

Arthur R. Gold
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: Veryjelly on Monday 29 November 10 22:54 GMT (UK)
Glad to here that Andrew Gold is still alive in England. Difficult to trace living relatives. Do you have a better photo of Nathaniel than the one I have, so if you have contact, could you try for a photo for me?
/quote]

I think I can help with a photo that was passed to me by a direct relative of Nathaniel who still lives in Scotland.  I will look it out.  Andrew is now 86.  He has often talked about Nathaniel as having the first car in Carluke but I doubt he would have seen this for himself as he was only 3 or so when Nathaniel emigrated. 

Andrew was from what seems to have been the disinherited side of the family (having seen Andrew Gold senior's will c. 1898).  I know not why but I have wondered about his father's divorce which would have been scandalous at the time

Thanks for the info - all good stuff and has filled in some gaps. Will root out the photo and attach. VJ 
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: Veryjelly on Monday 29 November 10 23:12 GMT (UK)
sure why Nathaniel would have left for Australia... very interested in knowing if you have had contact with Andrew Gold b.1924 as I have some unsolved family mysteries (pre 1800’s)  which I am trying to solve... perhaps Andrew holds the key?
Hi Arthur
I have been researching the David Just Gold family history over the last 6-7 years on and off - mostly off - but I have traced some lines back to the early 1800s.  I do have some info on the Nathaniel side and will have a look in my records re Effie et al.  You and Allan have galvanised me to start again as I'd got rather stuck with Andrew & Isabella Morton. Will have a look this weekend to see what I have that may be new to you.
VJ
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Monday 29 November 10 23:54 GMT (UK)
Hello VJ,

Here’s some information which you may already have...

Andrew GOLD b.1812 d.1844 married Isabella MORTON b.~1813 d.1840.  Andrew and Isabella had two  (2) children... Andrew GOLD b.~1837 d.1898 and Isabella Morton GOLD b.1839 d.1901. Isabella Morton GOLD married Richard Blackwood CAMPBELL in 1858.  Isabella and Richard had six (6) children... John CAMBELL b.1859, Andrew CAMBELL b.1861, Richard CAMPBELL b.1864 d.1944, Isabella Morton CAMBELL b.1866, Robert Muir CAMPBELL b.1874 d.1951 & George Ronie Oman CAMPBELL b.1884 d.1927.  Ironically, Robert Muir CAMPBELL also moved to Australia.

Here’s some information you may not have...

Andrew GOLD b.1812 d.1844 was the son of Andrew GOLD b.1790 d.1857 and Rebecca Kilpatrick b.~1790 d.1867.  Andrew and Rebecca had four children... Andrew GOLD b.1812 d.1844, George GOLD b.1814 d.1858, Elizabeth GOLD b.1816 d.1886 & Rebecca GOLD b.1818 d.1892.  I am a descendant of George GOLD b.1814 d.1858.

Andrew GOLD b.1790 d.1857 was the son of Andrew GOLD (Coal Miner) and Elizabeth WEIR b.~1749 d.1823.  Andrew and Elizabeth married in 1789 in Douglas, Lanarkshire. This is my dead end...

I have documented the numerous off shoots of the family so just let me know how far you want to take your research and I’ll provide you with a ‘data dump’.

I hope you find this information useful.

Talk to you soon.

Arthur R. Gold
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: Veryjelly on Tuesday 30 November 10 09:17 GMT (UK)
Here's Nathaniel - having trouble uploading.
VJ
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Tuesday 30 November 10 20:50 GMT (UK)
Hi VJ,
       You appear to be having the same problem I had in downloading photo's. Could you try to send it to me on (*) If you see this Arthur, drop me a line and I'll try to send both of you the photo I have of Nathaniel.
   Westfield photo hopefully next week.
    Regard Allan

Moderator Comment: email address removed to help prevent spam and other abuses as per RootsChat Policy. Please use our secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: goldnplomp on Thursday 02 December 10 03:20 GMT (UK)
Hello Everyone,

I did some digging 'down under' and uncovered the following obituary:

The Sydney Morning Herald: Tuesday 25 June 1946 (Pg.14)
GOLD - June 22, 1946. Janet beloved widow of Nat Gold, formerly of Carluke Scotland, loved mother of Effie (Mrs. McDougall), Natalie, Andrew, Heather (daughter-in-law) Archie (son-in-law, deceased). Dear grand-mother of Maureen and Maurice, and great-grandmother of Helen. Aged 75 years. Privately interred June 24, 1946

So it would seem that Effie married a unnamed McDougall and Natalie married an Archie (last name unknown) who was deceased by 1946... or perhaps Effie was married to an Archie McDougall and Natalie was unmarried  :-\

The search continues... but the gap is closing :)

Arthur
Title: Re: Nathaniel GOLD b.1868 d.1940 Sydney, NSW, Australia *COMPLETED*
Post by: PALMARC on Wednesday 08 December 10 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Arthur,
               Just some thoughts on the obituary of Janet Gold. If Natalie had married, I would have thought her married name would have been shown similar to Effie's, so possibly safe to assume, Natalie never married. If Janet was grandmother of Maureen and Maurice, surely they were Effie's children? Since there is no mention of Janet ( Andrew and Heather's daughter), was she born after 1946? Also, if Janet was Great grandmother to Helen, Helen must be the daughter of either Maureen or Maurice. Would be interesting to find out where Archie McDougall died. Could Effie and Natalie have gone to Australia after their father died, to be near their mother?
   Be in touch again.
Allan