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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: ygathddu on Monday 06 July 09 03:05 BST (UK)
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Hi !
My great grandfather Robert Little Holmes was born in Mitford , Morpeth August 1870 .
Through the 1871 census, I have managed to find his parents and his family at that time:
John Holmes b1827 Burnapfield
Jane Holmes b1835 [ couldn't make this out on census, looks like Hirchamston?
Jane A Holmes b1860 Wittonstall
Mary E Holmes b 1863 Mitford
John [T] Holmes b 1865 Mitford
Elizabeth Holmes b 1868 Mitford
Robert Little Holmes b1870 Mitford
Isabella Holmes [ niece] b 1856 Burnapfield
The birth dates are approximate based on the census .
I did check the 1911 census , where I found my great grandfather , but could only find what could be his sister on that. And these are the details:
ELIZABETH Holmes SINGLE 43 HOUSEKEEPER born NORTHUMBERLAND MITFORD
At the time of the 1911 census Elizabeth was living at TOWN FARM HIGH CALLERTON PONTELAND
Just wondering whether there are any relatives on roots.chat. :D
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Hi again YGD :)
Have you got the family in any of the intervening censuses - 1881-1901 or checked for deaths/marriages on freeBMD?
Ref for the 1871 for others who may help:
RG10/5162/26/12
Gadget
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In 1881, Robert seems to be away from the family. So far, I've not located him and will do a wider search:
Howlet Hall, Low Angerton
RG11/5113/21/14
Holmes
Robert
Mary, 38, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Elizabeth, 13, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Margaret, 7, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Lillie Agnes, 4, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Annie, 2, b. Nthbld, Bolam
Mark, 2 mths, b. Nthbld, Howlet
It looks as if Jane has died and RobertJohn has a new wife.
Gadget
added - Robert originally typed instead of John :-[
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:)
I've found him in Warwickshire with his Uncle, Robert Little:
11 Cricks Road Wharf, Hillmorton, Warwks
RG11/3080/2/18
Little
Robert, 53, carpenter, b. Cumberland, ?
Elizabeth, 51, b. Cumberland, ?
John, 27, caqrpenter, b. Cumberland, ?
Samuel Wolfe, s-in-l, 21, coal dealer, b. Wks, Hillmorton
Mary Ann Wolfe, daugh, 21, b. Nthbld, Percy Main
Elizabeth Ann Wolf, grddau, 8 mths, b. b. Wks, Hillmorton
Robert Little Holmes, nephew, 10, scholar, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Hugh Brown, lodger, 18, tin smith, b. Scotland, Glasgow
Gadget
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His mother, Jane Holmes, died in March q, 1874, Morpeth, vol 10b, p 228. Aged 39
I'm assuming that Robert's siblings (other than Elizabeth) were living independently or with other relatives so will have another look around.
Gadget
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Sister, Jane A in 1881:
Newgate Street, Morpeth
RG11/5114/85/3
Ashton
Edward, 25, baker & confectioner, b. Morpeth
Ann, 26, b. Sussex, St Leonards
Eliza Mercy, 1, b. Morpeth
George William, 3 mths, b. Morpeth
Harriott, 3 mths, b. Morpeth
Sarah Jane Ashdown,relative, vistor, 30, visitor, b. Sussex, St Leonards
Jane Ann Holmes, servant, 20, servant, b. Nthbld, Wittonstall
Gadget
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Jane Ann Holmes married March q, 1886, Morpeth, vol 10b page 382
Husband was Robert Alder. She appears with him on the 1891, still in Morpeth:
55 Newgate St, Morpeth
RG12/4254/101/11
Alder
Robert, 33, Iron moulder, b. Nthbld, Spittal
Jane A, 31
Elizabeh, 4
Robert, 3
John T H, 1
all but Robert, b. Morpeth
Gadget
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This might well be sister Mary in 1881
194 High Street East (British Empire*), Sunderland
RG11/5002/113/3
Brown
Dixon, 31, spirit merchant
Jane, 31, b. Morpeth
Margaret, 8, b. Newcastle
Minnie, 5, b. Newcastle
Jane, 2, b. Newcastle
Mary A Holmes, servant, 19, general servant domestic, b. Morpeth
Mary's initial is different but it's worth putting this on the possibles list
* I presume that the British Empire was a pub :)
Gadget
Added - Mary E is being a wee bit difficult. There are three possibles b. Morpeth 1862/1863 on the 1901 - surnames Finchen, Newton and Bartis :-\
~ so is John (T) - a possible in Newcastle Industrial School in 1881 but b. Newcastle :(
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HOLMES
1861 Census
RG9/3856/34/6
West End,
Whittonstall, Northumberland
John HOLMES, 34, head mar, wood man, Burmpfiield /Durham
Jean, 26, wife, mar, born Cumberland/Outerby?
Elizabeth, 2, daug, unm, Whittonstall
Jean.A.,1, daug, unm, Whittonstall
EDIT again, I'd typred in wrong name :-[
1851 Census
HO107/2389/42/39
Tanfield, Durham
Thomas HOLMES, 55, mar, woodsman, Durham/Medomsley
Ann, 60, wife, mar, Durham/Shieldow
JOHN, 24, son, unm, woodsman, Burmpfield/Durham
Mary.A., 19, daug, unm, Burmpfield
Wm Smith, 31,lodger,unm,joiner
Trish
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I was looking at family trees for this family and they have Jean/Jane as Jane THIRWALL, but no one has the marriage.
Found it ;D
John HOLMES
Jane THIRLWELL
December 1857
Newcastle Tyne
10b 179
Trish
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Hi Trish
John's birthplace is most likely Burnopfield in Co. Durham - just a wee bit up the Tyne from Gateshead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnopfield
Did you find anything on Robert's siblings on the tree that you found. Apart from sister Jane marrying Robert Alder, I can't find any definites.
YGD is very keen to find them and their descendants.
Gadget
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Sorry, nothing usefull re siblings on Tree :(
I will have another scout around tomorrow.
John Holmes 1827, christening is on the IGI, 1827, Tanfield + siblings.
Think this is the marriage of Thomas and Ann;
Thomas HOLMES
Ann TURNER
14 May 1820, Tanfield, Durham, England
Trish
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As I can't find the other sibs so far, a bit more about Jane with more children:
1901
Newminster, Morpeth
RG13/4831/97/1
Alder
Robert, 43, Foreman Iron Moulder, b. Spittal
Jane A, 41, b. Whittonstall
Elizabeth, 14
Robert, 13
John T H, 11
Joseph H, 8
Eneas S, 2
all children b. Morpeth
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Just to confirm the Thirlwall/Thirlwell surname:
Robert's elder brother,John T's birth reg:
John Thirlwall Holmes, Dec q, 1964, Morpeth, vol 10b, page 273
Gadget
PS - Trish, I think the tree that you've been looking at was ygathddu's :)
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a probable marriage for John T H Alder (Robert's nephew) to Nona Elliott
Mar q, 1921, Morpeth, vol 10b, p 834
and Joseph H Alder to Janet Gibson:
Mar q, 1925, Newcastle, vol 10b page 207
Gadget
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Free BMD are showing two female Alder/Elliott births - 1922 (Auckland) and 1923 (Morpeth). I think the 1923 is a definite because of the name.
I can't give the information because the person might still be alive.
Gadget
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Likewise for Alder/Gibson -
1925 (female) and 1930 (male) - Morpeth
1940 (male) Northumberland C
Gadget
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When I looked at this last night there was nothing - see what happens when I go out for the day!
Not that I'd have been much good as most people on here can search online much more quickly and successfully than I can BUT I am probably going to Northumberland Archives in the next week or so - maybe Wed. or Fri. I only have a couple of things I want to do so if there's anything crops up that can be checked out there let me know.
Christine
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Thanks Christine , and thank you Gadget and Trish ! :) I just had a quick peep at this thread before going to church this morning , and have now looked at all the details. And now, I need to study it again and make a note of everything that's been found so far.
I found Jane Thirwall's name by searching Ancestry .co , and it came up as a match with my great grandfather's marriage details.[ yes Gadget , I have my name on my family tree :)] Someone else must be researching the Holmes family tree, and yesterday I found a hot clue in amongst some old newspaper cuttings I had stored away. ;D Trouble is I will have to have a membership on ancestry.co in order to contact that person , or I might just have a 14 day free trial ;) and see what comes up!
I've always been fascinated by the prospect that there might be some more descendants of RLH other than the family I know who are still living near my home town.
I'll be back later ! ;D
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Gadget,
I have been busy at work following some of your leads. ;D Have found the three children from the Alder /Gibson marriage, and I have been following up on the female child born in 1925. I think I have found her marriage details to a White , and also coming down to my generation , two children from that marriage , male and female.
Looks as if there are no more Holmes left ! :'(
Please let me know if you come to the same results ,because researching family history is very new to me.
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Sorry, nothing usefull re siblings on Tree :(
I will have another scout around tomorrow.
John Holmes 1827, christening is on the IGI, 1827, Tanfield + siblings.
Think this is the marriage of Thomas and Ann;
Thomas HOLMES
Ann TURNER
14 May 1820, Tanfield, Durham, England
Trish
Trish,
Thank you for these details , and for those of John and Jane Holmes :)
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Gadget,
I have been busy at work following some of your leads. ;D Have found the three children from the Alder /Gibson marriage, and I have been following up on the female child born in 1925. I think I have found her marriage details to a White , and also coming down to my generation , two children from that marriage , male and female.
Looks as if there are no more Holmes left ! :'(
Please let me know if you come to the same results ,because researching family history is very new to me.
Hi YGD
I'll do the checks later and get back to you on them. What it's worth doing now is to try to find the deaths of those who married in the 1920s (and any who might have died from then on) and then try and find obituaries in the lacal papers. These would list relatives and provide great leads. I'm not sure what the local newspapers are for that area but I'm sure Christine or Michael would know :)
You say that there it looks as if there are no Holmes left. What about Robert Little Holmes's half siblings:
In 1881:
Margaret, 7, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Lillie Agnes, 4, b. Nthbld, Morpeth
Annie, 2, b. Nthbld, Bolam
Mark, 2 mths, b. Nthbld, Howlet
There might have been more as I didn't check the 1891. I think these might be worth following through as well.
Gadget - off to check the 1891 :D
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In 1891 the family are at Swarland Moor, Swarland
RG12/4261/16/2
Holmes
John, 50, woodman, b. Durham, Burnopfield
Mary A, 47
*John, 24, woodman
Lillie A, 13, scholar
Annie, 10, Scholar, b. Ponteland
Mark, W, 9, scholar
b. Morpeth unless stated.
*It looks as if John T, b. 1865, is back with the family so it might be worth checking him up as well.
Gadget
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Local Newspapers.
In the era of 1st half of C20th, for Morpeth the local paper was the Morpeth Herald.
To the east, Ashington folk had the Ashington Post.
To the south Blyth, Bedlington, Seaton Delaval, etc folk had the Blyth News.
These papers were either weekly or bi-weekly.
The Morpeth Herald lives on ( @ 15 Newgate St, Morpeth, tel 01670-51717)
The Ashington Post and Blyth News were merged into today's free weekly The News Post Leader, cousin to the Herald.
Remembering Blyth and Ashington in 50s and 60s, most folk posted BMDs in their local paper, but others posted to both local paper and the (Newcastle) Evening Chronicle.
Today Blyth and Ashington libraries have back copies of "their" papers on film.
Newcastle City Library has ' Chronicles , hard copy and on film.
Michael Dixon
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I think that I've found Mark W Holmes's marriage:
Birth Reg - Mark William Holmes, March q, 1881, Morpeth, vol 10b, page 323
Marriage reg - Mark William Holmes, June q, 1904, Morpeth, vol 10b, page 739
Females on the page - Sarah Jane Hindmarsh and Margaret Ann Robson
I'll see if I can find some post- 1911 births :)
Gadget
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Holmes/Hindmarsh birth reg:
William E A Holmes, March q, 1915, Morpeth, v.10b, p 931
Gadget
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Using the free search on the 1911 census, there is a Mark William Holmes, of approx the correct age +/- 3, living in the Morpeth RD.
Gadget
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Local Newspapers.
In the era of 1st half of C20th, for Morpeth the local paper was the Morpeth Herald.
To the east, Ashington folk had the Ashington Post.
To the south Blyth, Bedlington, Seaton Delaval, etc folk had the Blyth News.
These papers were either weekly or bi-weekly.
The Morpeth Herald lives on ( @ 15 Newgate St, Morpeth, tel 01670-51717)
The Ashington Post and Blyth News were merged into today's free weekly The News Post Leader, cousin to the Herald.
Remembering Blyth and Ashington in 50s and 60s, most folk posted BMDs in their local paper, but others posted to both local paper and the (Newcastle) Evening Chronicle.
Today Blyth and Ashington libraries have back copies of "their" papers on film.
Newcastle City Library has ' Chronicles , hard copy and on film.
Michael Dixon
Thank you very much for those details Michael . I will make a note of the names of the newspapers and maybe try and contact them through the internet initially. :)
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Gadget,
Thank you once again for all your hard work . I will study the information you've found in detail tonight. Sorry I was a little late getting back to you , but I've been busy preparing for a trip. This time next week we'll be in the UK , and I really wish that we could visit Mitford and see Highlaws Cottage while we're there , but we'll be running a tight schedule, and there are some plans which can't be changed. I should have started this search sooner ! Hopefully next time ....
Still I'll probably get to do some work on the Parry family while we're in North Wales, and try and find Robert Little Holmes' grave . I know the cemetery but not the exact spot. :(
Thanks again.
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Did a search on the 1901 census and found the family at Wyham [ not sure of spelling ] RG 13 4837
John Holmes 74 retired woodman
Mary Holmes 57
John 36 coal miner
Lillie 23
Annie 21
Mark 19 coal miner
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Hi YGD :)
I think it's Ulgham, north of Morpeth and Ashington. The full census ref is RG13/4837 Folio 221 Page 7
I see that John was still single.
Gadget