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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: shaw.shoo on Sunday 05 July 09 01:37 BST (UK)
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i'm back again. i had posted several messages about my John Shaw thru the Britain link but was told by another that i needed more info on him from Canadian records. so i began my in depth search in Canada.
Looking for his arrival in Canada.
background info:
He was born in either 1824 or 1831 in Devonshire England according to marriage and death records. His father's name was Thomas (could be Irish). John died 1898 in Hagarman PS Ontario.
i recently found a John Shaw on 1871 census (stray) in St John's Ward Toronto West and really think this could be him.
then i found an assisted fare application in Toronto for travel to King. he applied for this far Jan 3, 1870; came over on Nestorian Ship (Capt Aird) leaving Liverpool an arriving at Portland Maine.
the destination was Weston which is a place where we already have Calvert family recorded and he married a Calvert. Weston i think is within the boundaries of St John's Ward D of Toronto West. so it is looking pretty good.
then i looked for sailings of this ship for this time frame. This is so looking better and better.
only catch is - i don't know if he would be considered on the Canadian Immigration or the US immigration. in that case i would have to try looking at Portland Arrivals. I have emailed the Cdn Archives for their view on whether he would be considered Cdn or US immigrant.
hope someone can help me. i have always had such good luck with my past posts.
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hi shaw.shoo
What are you looking for on John Shaw other than his arrival in Portland 1870? Please post the link to your other queries on the British boards so we can have some more background & not duplicate others' searches. ;) Additional info is needed to find the correct John Shaw. Marriage details?
The birth details you have given are vague- (1824 or 1831)... the death in Parry Sound in 1898 puts his year of birth at 1824 in Devonshire.
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hi tazette
thanks for your reply. first, i don't know how to link to other posts in Britain forum. most of the chatter there was my attempt to try to find him in Devon...but that showed to be almost impossible. i think i had everyone going around in circles including myself. i was advised by another to get more definite info in Canada.
secondly, the birth years are vague because like you say on his death 1898 puts his birth years 1824..
marriage certificate to Ann Calvert he says he is 42....they married Oct 11, in 1873 in Hagerman Twp, Dunchurch, Parry Sound ON....that would make birth year 1831. on marriage it said he was a widower.
on 1881 census in Hagerman & McKellar Muskoka ON his age is 50 that would make birth year 1831.
have found application for assisted fare in Toronto to King dated Jan 3, 1870. gives his name, ship he came over on NESTORIAN left Liverpool and landed Portland. his destination was Weston Ont.
by the application date (which in later applications became the arrival date) I figured that he must have come over late December....travelled from Portland to Toronto.
i searched theshipslist site and found a few sailings from Liverpool to Portland but the one in December fits in better with the time frame.
1. Nestorian - Capt Aird departed Liverpool Dec 23, 1869 arrived Portland Jan 4, 1870....hence my query!
2. Nestorian - Capt Aird departed Liverpool Feb 3, 1870 arrived Portland Feb 15, 1870
3. Nestorian - Capt Aird departed Liverpool Mar 17, 1870 arrived Portland Mar 29, 1870
on 1871 census where we think we have him in the strays. St Johns Ward D, Toronto West
he is living with another group of people with different names (head of house is Spencer) John Shaw age 42 born in England, Religion C of E, occupation: painter and that he was married.
tho his age here makes his birth year 1829...it could have been mis transcribed. the location so fits in with Weston as this is pretty close to within the borders of this Ward. his marital status is not a problem as we have info he was married in England with family he intended to bring out. the fact that he married again and stated he was a widow...could be so that he was...or maybe he found it easier to say he was.
i hope i was not too wordy here. some stuff is new compared to postings in Britain forum.
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oops forgot to answer your question about what i want other than his arrival to Portland.
i want to know which sailing he was on. then i can try to find
1. proof of his travel to Toronto canada
2. find sites at Liverpool and try to find his emigration there
hopefully i can find out where in Devonshire he was born.
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Thank you, shaw.shoo- that helps! I'll see what, if anything, I can turn up for you :)
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John Shaw- Death Nov 22 1898- Hagerman, Parry Sound, Ont age 74 (painter), born Devonshire, Eng
1881 census - John Shaw, 50, Painter, born England; wife Jane 28, children Amelia 7, William Thomas 5, and Elizabeth Jane 3
Hagerman & McKellar
1891 census - John Shaw, 64, Painter, born England, wife Jane 37, children Amelia 17, Mary Ann 9, Robert H. 8, and Levina S. 4
McKellar and Hagerman
Not finding your John Shaw's arrival aboard the Nestorian via Portland. :(
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yes, you have all that correct. i also have that.
sure would like to find his immigration info.
thanks for trying...
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i want to know which sailing he was on. then i can try to find
1. proof of his travel to Toronto canada
2. find sites at Liverpool and try to find his emigration there
Even if you find the correct passenger list you are unlikely to have your questions answered as there isn't much information given on passenger lists from that time period. The most detailed passenger lists I have seen from the late 1860s - early 1870s include the person's name, occupation, age, the country they left and the country or port where they were scheduled to disembark. It wasn't until later that more specific information was included like final destination or whether they were joining someone.
I have viewed the image of the 1871 census and the John Shaw, painter, born England who was in the household of Robert Spencer is listed as being 42. His age wasn't mistranscribed. However, that John is not listed as being married. The 1871 census only asked whether a person was married or widowed and John's entry has a dash in the column which indicates he was neither. The census indicates that John was living in a boarding house so it is possible that some of the information (like his marital status) was incorrect.
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie
agreed- I wondered if shaw.shoo wasn't chasing the wrong John Shaw? It's very easy to get side tracked chasing censuses... No info was posted describing how we know that the correct John Shaw had been established in the censuses in Canada... Children's names perhaps?
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Here is a link to a previous thread by shaw.shoo regarding John Shaw:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,390977.msg2620632.html#msg2620632
Shaw.shoo, can you provide some facts regarding your John Shaw as most of the information posted seems to be supposition. Are you descended from one of his children with Jane (by the way, the marriage registration says Jane, not Ann as you have in your second post in this thread)?
Jacquie
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jacquie
re: the 1871 census...i did not read the reel myself...it was done by a volunteer on one of these sites. it even could have been rootschat..can't remember.
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jacquie,
the mixup with Ann and Jane is that John Shaw's wife is actually Ann Jane. sorry not to have mentioned that previously.
yes, i am a descendant of Ann Jane and John Shaw. one of their daughters Lavina Susanna was my gr grandmother.
things we know:
1. found archival info where by he owned property jan 13 1872 in Hagerman. copies of records comig to me soon.
2. he was initiated into the Orange Lodge of McKellar Jul 12 1873.
he lived in McKellar June 1882 as his name is mentioned in the book of the Loyal Orange Lodge, age given as 55..here again another age descrepancy and that john shaw was supposed to paint the hall.
3. he married Ann Jane Calvert Oct 11 1873. document said he was a widower.
family story says he left wife and kids in England with intent to bring them out.
4. they lived mostly in Parry Sound Ont area...there are land record info we have with lot# and concession.
5. he died in Parry sound Nov 22,1898 age stated as 74 (b.1824).
recently found that although his death record says he was born in Devonshire...a Dunchurch gal connected to family too) said that most people just knew that John was FROM Devonshire...so he may not necessarily been born there. hence the birthplace on his death record.
6. his father's name was Thomas per marriage certificate
7. he was a painter, stated on marriage certificate
8. we have 1881 and 1891 census with him and family - Hagarman, Parry Sound ON
did you want names of kids? the family flitted from Hagerman, to Ahmic Harbour and Croft
per birthdates of children.
i was trying to find John by looking in Britain but that proved impossible....i had posted to Britain forum under Devonshire....was advised to get more info in Canada first.
SO.....when i found the 1871 census with john shaw, the first thing that struck me was that he was a painter-which matched, the age-was pretty close to 1824 (and we all know how many of these dates on censuses vary from the truth) and of course that he was English.
while searching around on line i found on toronto emigrant office assisted immigration database
a john shaw applying for assisted fare at Toronto to King. the date of application was Jan 3, 1870.
it showed he was English. Sailed on ship Nestorian from Liverpool and landed at Portland. his destination was Weston. he travelled alone.
the destination of Weston intrigued me because it is just north of the location were he supposedly is found on 1871 census. weston is where Ann Jane Calvert was born along with all her siblings.
it just sounded so good.
so help me out ladies... am i going nuts or not? does this sound like it could be the same man.
i was advised to view the reel containing this assisted fare info to see if additional info could be found. which i plan to see if i can get thru inter library loan which will probably take weeks to get to me if at all.
this is the reason i began looking for Nestorian ships sailing and landing in Portland 1870 ish.