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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: wincklers on Saturday 04 July 09 18:53 BST (UK)
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I live in South Africa and is virtually 100% dependant on the internet for my research.
I have a great (6x) grandfather, called George Alexander Reynolds, who was baptized in Grantham, Lincolnshire, in 1757. He arrived in Cape Town in 1806 and had with him his 4 year old daughter Louisa Elizabeth. The South African records indicate that his first wife was a Ms Bonnefoi (no firstname).
I have subsequently established that Louisa Elizabeth was born in Madras in 1802 and that her mother was called 'Eliza'. Through the kind help of the staff of the British India Records Section of the British Library I have found out that George was a shopkeeper in Madras and was listed as living there already in 1786.
I would so much like to know more about him. It seems entirely possible that he was previously married (before Ms Bonnefoi) as Louisa was born when her father was already 45. Does her perhaps have other children that we do not even know about?
Shortly after his arrival in Cape Town (about a year later) he married a Carolina von Bratt and had three children with her. He was quite a well-to-do citizen of the Cape and owned many farms and businesses. He died in 1819.
Any information about George, his wife(s) and Louisa would be greatly appreciated.
Adri Winckler
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Hi Adri
You could try
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300gi?200907042123062A1C604C%26DB%3DRSAE
I had 239 documents found using Reynolds and George as the search criteria
Hope this is of use
Happy hunting
Chris
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Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion. I had previously looked at the records available on NAAIRS
I am interested in George Reynolds' history before he came to the Cape.
Any further suggestions are very welcome.
Adri
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Hi Adri,
The George Alexander you are looking for is my 3rd great grandfather (via my Mom). Wonderful to have found you - just the other day I was looking at the Engels section of the family tree and wondering where all Louisa's children ended up. Interesting that her mom's name was Eliza - this might explain why Brietta Carolina named one of her daughters the same name. Not much is known about G.A.R before he came to the Cape and of his work in India - there actually seems to be a deliberate attempt to obsure his parentage. Records and letters show that he was merchant in Madras, India from 1791, of the firm Hope, Griffiths & Co, left India in 1804 for England and came to the Cape in 1806. At around he same time his brother John is first mentioned in correspondence as having left the firm of Davis & Card, of 14, Devonshire Street London.
In 1820 GAR2, the eldest so of GAR1, was sent to England for his education. Letters we have in our possession, suggest that he tried to call on his uncle John but was rebuffed by him. (This despite fact that Uncle John seemed to be receiving a considerable monthly allowance from his brother - as testified to in GAR1's will) It transpired then, that a Ms. Green came to the Cape in 1836 and questioned Louis George (GAR1's youngest son - then only a child) about his grandfather and took copies or originals of baptismal and other certificates they had and returned to England. Ms Green also writes to Griffith's of 'Hope, Griffith's & Co.', Bangalore, India asking him to persuade GAR2 to write to his uncle John. GAR2 does write, but recieves no reply.
There seems to have been an unbridgeable estrangement between the GAR1 and his brother John. GAR1's children knew of and accepted the existence of John. It was firmly believed that John was a bachelor so that some bequests, at least under his will would have benefited his brother GAR1's children. Only in 1835-6 was it found after enquiries were made that John Reynolds had two illegitimate children - a son and a daughter living in London - and that the daughter was then married. (One wonders, if they could trace the marriage of the daughter why they didn't pursue this further and inquire about the parentage of thier uncle GAR1, or if they did, and withheld the information)
This brother, John Reynolds was for many years, prior and up to about 1836, carrying on business as an Ironmaster and Banker at Wellington and. Coalbrookdale in Shropshire under the firm of Reynolds Charlton (?) & Co. In the year 1836 such Banking business in which he was interested to the amount of about £80,000 was merged in the Shropshire Banking Company of which Philip Charlton was one of the original Directors, the Head Office being established at Shiffnal with branches at Wellington and Coalbrookdale all in the country of Shropshire.Then, in 1842 Powys writes to GAR2 on behalf of his uncle John, instructing him to come to Wales as his uncle is ailing. (He does this, but leaves no mention of it in his diary - commenting instead on the 'hospitality' of the governor of St. Helena) John is alleged to have died at Clifton in Notts, sometime between 1845 and 1855. John Reynolds was a large shareholder and, the belief is that, by his dying intestate his shares remained uncalled for and moneys to credit were misappropriated. He had besides a very large estate and was reputed very wealthy.
We hear no more on the matter, and as a result don't know if Ms Green or any of the the solicitors (a Mr Wyllie in particular seems anxious to squash the matter) involved ended up with the money. We do know, through correspondence of GAR4 (son of Louis George) at the Cape with GAR3 in India, that neither branch of the family ended up with it. So too, are we left with questions about the parentage of GAR1 -whether he was perhaps an illegitimate, or if the parents were of questionable origin themselves. So while the evidence suggests that our G.A.R is linked to the Ironmaster Reynolds of Shropshire only John can be found on any associated family trees. At the moment I am busy with scanning in all the correspondence between the Cape and India and archiving it in digital format. Along with pictures, invitations and info I have been able to gather there is enough to write a book. I have also recently (not even a month ago) approched some of G.A.R's 3rd and 2nd great grand sons go in for Y-DNA testing, so we may yet be able to trace the parents of G.A.R 1 after all. Will keep you posted. Kind Regards from me, your 4th cousin 3 times removed.
Dominic
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Hi Adri,
Not sure if you've already seen this LDS record: http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?familyid=18369162&indi_id=100033856763&lds=1®ion=1&frompage=99
It concerns a Louisa Elizabeth Reynolds born on 10 NOV 1802 at Fort St George, Madras, Tamil Nadu, India to parents George R and Eliza. Given the above, she must have been around two years old when her mom died en route to England from India and around 4 years old when she came to the Cape with her dad.
It looks like quite a few Louisa Reynolds' have been born in India since then too. Good to know that there are Reynolds' somewhere in India contributing to the world population. Once we get back into contact with the family in India - through the DNA tests - I'm sure we will add a whole new section to the family tree. Who knows, perhaps we have even seen a 4th or 5th cousin acting Bollywood film before - maybe as an extra :)
Regards,
Dominic
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Hello Dominic,
This is fantastic! I have almost given up hope to get a reply on my topic and then you appeared. Thank you for the comprehensive reply.
Which of the Engels children is your ancestor? Mine is Susanna Jacoba Engels who was married to Petrus J Viljoen.
The information about GAR1 is fascinating and I am looking forward to hearing more about him. I have been searching for information about George for a long time and always came up against the same brick wall.
Do please stay in touch - it is so exciting to have found a cousin.
Gosh, this is really wonderful.
Speak again soon
Adri
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Hi Adri,
Great to hear from you. I'm actually an almost direct descendant of G.A.R1 (my mom's maiden name was Reynolds) which is why I have a lot of the related documents, pedigrees, photographs and so forth in my possession. My 2nd great grand father is Louisa's half-brother Louis George von Bratt Reynolds ( the son of G.A.R1 and Anna Carolina von Bratt). Because G.A.R 1 is your 6th great grand father, this makes us at least 4th cousins 3 times removed. I say at least because my 5th great grandmother was a Kruger and I see that you also have Kruger ancestors, so there might be a parallel relationship somewhere there. I do intend to look into the Kruger ancestors too at some stage, right now though the Reynolds' have my full attention.
At the moment I am preparing to make a pilgrimage towards the end of the month to the Reynolds family farm 'Grantham' near Beaufort West. (Named such due to being G.A.R1's possible place of birth) The SA National Parks board recently restored the farm and opened it to the public as an educational center in September last year. They also seem interested in the history of the farm, which has been in the family for over 4 generations, so there is a prospect of setting up some kind of exhibit dedicated to the Reynolds family there. So other than research for the book on the origin of G.A.R1, I'm also quite busy at scanning in and restoring old photographs related to Grantham for use in collages or a photographic essay of some kind. After that who knows, perhaps I'll have to put up a website or something to keep track of all the relatives I seem to be finding these days. After hearing from you, the next big surprise would be to hear from a descendant of Baron Carl von Ludwig who married Brietta Carolina - Louisa's half sister. Who knows - anything is possible with the internet these days. Hope to see you in the RootsChat chat room sometime. :)
Kind Regards,
Dominic
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Hi Dominic,
Would it not be fascinating if, indeed, we were related twice over? ;D I have come across that quite often in my research. Families were large (my grandfather GJH Kruger, was one of 15 children).
I am becoming more and more intrigued by GAR1. Your pilgrimage sounds very exciting. Please let me know how things are progressing.
It would be so wonderful if you were willing to share some of your family tree secrets with me. Once you get started on the Krugers there is a lot with which I might be of assistance to you.
Keep well
Adri
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Hi Adri
I found some info in the IGI on GAR2's children in India the other day. Just posting it here for the benefit of others. George Alexander Reynolds II married Maria Josina Petersen on 23rd March 1839 at the Cape and they had the following children:
1. George Alexander Reynolds III b. 13 Oct 1841 in Madras, India
2. Frederick Jacob b. 19 Oct 1843 in Mysore District, Madras m1. Isabella
3. Charles Eaton b. 28 Jun 1846 in Madras, India m. Aimce Maud Lamoung
4. Caroline Harriet c. 8 Aug 1854 in Bangalore, Madras, India m. Louis Clerk
5. James George Wellington c. 13 Apr 1858 in Madras m. Jane Atkinson
6. Margaret Mary b. 10 Jul 1860 in Bangalore, Madras, India
7. Andrew von Bratt Reynolds d. 4 Sep 1854 in Madras
8. Maria Wilhelmina b. 1838
Many of the names were new for me. From family papers I knew of the existence of only Fred, George, Charlie and Maria. The source of the the above info is the new beta Family search pilot record search. (See the India Births and Baptisms, collection 1786-1947 on http://beta.familysearch.org/s/search/index/record-search#searchType=records&collectionId=1584960&advanced=false&fed=true&page=1&givenName=George+Alexander&surname=Reynolds&birthYear=&birthLocation=&deathYear=&deathLocation=&filtered=true )
Dom
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Hello Dom!
Good to hear from you again.
Thanks for posting the new information. It is really interesting. I would still love to know more about GAR1's first wife. I will be going to the Cape Archives as soon as I get a chance to go and have a look at the name you mentioned. I will make sure that I take my magnifying glass and camera along!
Warm regards
Cousin Adri
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Hello Adri
My name is Peter Reynolds aand I am the great great great grandson of George Alexander Reynolds (I think that's the right number of greats!). I live in England - my parents emigrated (back) to the UK from South Africa in the1950s, although we still have lots of family and friends in South Africa. I am essentially from the same side of the Reynolds family as Dom (Hi Dom!) I am gradually getting interested in the family's history. I am interested that you say in your original post that George Alexander was baptised in Lincolnshire in 1757 - do you have documents proving that? If so I'd love to see them. Also, do you know whether GA Reynolds and Ms Bonnefoi were married in India after arriving or meeting there or in the UK? Your thought that GAR1 couldd have been married before Ms Bonnefoi is also very interesting, who knows?!
Dom - you may well be able to answer some of these questions? Anyway, I wanted to make contact and perhaps the fact that I am here in the UK might be helpful in digging up new information. Having said that, my father has tried quite hard to find birth records for GAR1 and his brother John, without success.
Best wishes.
Peter Reynolds
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Hi Adri and Dominic
I am with my cousin Peter in England this evening. We are the great great grandchildren of George Alexander Reynolds 1. Our grandfather was Robert Reynolds. He was born in about 1863 and was the son of Louis George von Bratt and Susanna Winterbach. Our mothers were his two youngest daughters, born in 1920 and 1924. My mother Johanna Dorothea Reynolds is still alive. We would like to find out more about our grandfather's life in South Africa before he came to England in the early 20th century, in particular we think he may have been married in South Africa and the Mormon website points to a Robert Reynolds born in 1865 who married and had one daughter. Our understanding however was that he was born in 1863 so perhaps this is a different Robert Reynolds. Interestingly we have never been able to trace our own grandparents marriage certificate!
Dominic we knew and loved your grandparents Rex and Barbara.
Dominic I may catch up with you later in the year when I come to visit your cousin Mariette in Bellville (Peter)
Susan and Peter
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Hi Dominic,
I am Attela Hyman and married to one of the decendants of Louisa Elizabeth Reynolds. She was married to Friedrich Ludwig Christian Engels - his names changed to Frederik Lodewyk Christiaan Engels. She was his first wife...married 18.3.1826 in Cape Town. (His second wife was Cornelia Magdalena van Reenen.) >>>
Their 3rd child was Frederik Lodewyk Christiaan b3 14.4.1829 - Married to Henriėtta Grimbeek.b.1829>>
Their son was Louis George Reynold Engels (1867-1962) married to second wife Wilhelmina Jacoba Kotze 1877-1941>>> (first wife wasWilhelmina Aletta Jacoba Knouwds *1960
Their daughter was Anna Alida Engels 1910-2009 married to David Izak Hyman 1900 -1992>>
Their son (my husband) Louis George Reynolds Hyman 1945.
I really would like to be included into any info about his Ancestors. I can help you with our line of descendants.
(It concerns a Louisa Elizabeth Reynolds born on 10 NOV 1802 at Fort St George, Madras, Tamil Nadu, India to parents George R and Eliza. Given the above, she must have been around two years old when her mom died en route to England from India and around 4 years old when she came to the Cape with her dad.)
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Hi Attela. My name is Peter Reynolds and I am a great great great grandson of George Alexander Reynolds who arrived in South Africa in 1806, through his younger son Louis George von Bratt Reynolds. I am also a reasonably close cousin of Dominic. My parents emigrated from South Africa to the UK in the 1950s, but we maintain close ties with South Africa. I have done a fair amount of research into George Alexander Reynolds and his time in India and also (I think!) traced his family in the UK going back to the late 1600s. I have a couple of papers on this that I would be happy to send you. Do let me know if you are interested in seeing them. Best wishes. Peter Reynolds.
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Hi Peter..... It is so good to meet the family this way. As Adri (who is surely a relative of my in-laws) I am also looking into the Reynolds and Engels Family connections. I am currently keeping the descendants updated by a Facebook Page ...........https://www.facebook.com/groups/1512680245639572/ Family of the Hymans/Engels. As I explained in my previous post, the little girl that came with her father to South Africa, was our SM Ancestor. Anything to show them and to use in my Family Tree, would be so well come. I started this page, because there are so many of our family that are interested and really appreciate news about our Ancestors and their Descendants. Hope to hear from you soon. One of you mentioned Somerset West... I live close by in Pringle Bay. Regards, Attela Hyman. (mother-in-law was Engels)
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Hi Attela. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have applied to join the Facebook group you mentioned in your last post. I have tried attaching to this post the 2 papers I mentioned last time and a couple of family trees, but the files are too large to do that here. If we make contact through the Facebook group, we can work out a way for me to send them to you via email or somehow.
As I said last time, I am a great great great grandson of George Alexander, through his son Louis George von Bratt Reynolds, then Pieter Reynolds, my grandfather Lawrence Reynolds and father Marius Reynolds. Pieter and Lawrence had farms in the Karoo, near Beaufort West. My father emigrated to England in the 1950s.
At some point I want to work on a fuller family tree of GAR's descendants in South Africa and it seems you will have much of the Engels branch!
Best wishes, Peter
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Hi Peter..........try my e/mail: attela@orcawireless.co.za. I am pretty sure we can work together on this.
Best wishes Attela.