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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: tulipoo on Saturday 04 July 09 11:27 BST (UK)
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It could be me, but I have been trying to access info in Dublin to get some
detail on a Police Inspector there in the early 1800's. His name was either
Fowler or Collins.
I can't get anywhere with my searching-can anyone point me to a site please.
Thanks, Ian
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Ian,
Have a look at this website where you will find contact details for the museum and archives.
www.esatclear.ie/~garda/museum.html
Do you have a christian name for your Inspector?
Siobhan
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The Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP) was the police force of Dublin, Ireland, from 1836 to 1925, when it amalgamated into the new Garda Síochána.
This book has the complete list of officers and men in the DMP (http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=347), The Dublin Metropolitan Police, A complete alphabetical list of officers and men, 1836-1925 by Jim Herlihy you should be able to get or order it from your local library as it is a modern book (you could buy it )
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Ian
I have Jime Herlihy's excellent books. I did some lookups - see below. You would need more information to identify the correct person - there are a lot of Collins entries present.
Once you have the Service Number in the RIC or DMP, you can look up the RIC registers at National Archives - Dublin or Kew. The LDS have microfilmed these records - Jim Herlihy's book gives LDS references also. I can look these up for you if it's possible to narrow down the person in question.
I hope this helps.
best regards
Gerry McMahon
Dublin
- Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: Alphabetical List -
Fowler: two entries
Patrick Fowler, DMP 4961, born 1827, Lucan, Co. Dublin; Ex-RIC 8842.
Thomas Fowler, DMP 1213, born 1811, Inishmacsaint, Co. Fermanagh; Ex-Revenue Police
Collins:
38 entries; none born in Dublin.
- Jim Herlihy, The Royal Irish Constabulary: Alphabetical List -
Collins: about 150 entries
Fowler: 21 entries
This book doesn, give any more info other than name and RIC Service Number.
- Jim Herlihy, Royal Irish Constabulary Officers: Biographical Dictionary -
Fowler - no entry
Collins - one entry:
Charles Collins, RIC Service No. 52125, born 25/6/1865, Ardee, Co. Louth. Married 8/1/1919 Jane E. Brabazon a native of Co. Longford.
Detective Inspector (3rd) 10/5/1905. Pensioned 1/8/1920.
[Refs for birth & marriage given as well as ID for LDS RIC Records Microfilm]
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Ian
I have Jim Herlihy's excellent books. I did some lookups - see below. You would need more information to identify the correct person - there are a lot of Collins entries present.
Once you have the Service Number in the RIC or DMP, you can look up the RIC registers at National Archives - Dublin or Kew. The LDS have microfilmed these records - Jim Herlihy's book gives LDS references also. I can look these up for you if it's possible to narrow down the person in question.
I hope this helps.
best regards
Gerry McMahon
Dublin
- Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: Alphabetical List -
Fowler: two entries
Patrick Fowler, DMP 4961, born 1827, Lucan, Co. Dublin; Ex-RIC 8842.
Thomas Fowler, DMP 1213, born 1811, Inishmacsaint, Co. Fermanagh; Ex-Revenue Police
Collins:
38 entries; none born in Dublin.
- Jim Herlihy, The Royal Irish Constabulary: Alphabetical List -
Collins: about 150 entries
Fowler: 21 entries
This book doesn't, give any more info other than name and RIC Service Number.
- Jim Herlihy, Royal Irish Constabulary Officers: Biographical Dictionary -
Fowler - no entry
Collins - one entry:
Charles Collins, RIC Service No. 52125, born 25/6/1865, Ardee, Co. Louth. Married 8/1/1919 Jane E. Brabazon a native of Co. Longford.
Detective Inspector (3rd) 10/5/1905. Pensioned 1/8/1920.
[Refs for birth & marriage given as well as ID for LDS RIC Records Microfilm]
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I wonder is there any reference to my grand uncle James O'Donoghue, born Kerry 1874, trained in Dublin, shot dead in Whites Street, Cork 1920 RIC Sargent.
Brendan
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The cork policeman is on this Wikipedia page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Irish_War_of_Independence) You are best off doing a new thread in Cork if you want to know more
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Brendan
Jim Herlihy, "The Royal Irish Constabulary, A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers Men 1816-1922", lists five 'James O'Donoghue'e entries -
James O'Donoghue, 16415, 1852-53
James HH O'Donoghue, 23796, 1858-59
James O'Donoghue, 39333, 1872-75
James O'Donoghue, 46953, 1879-81
James Ernest O'Donoghue 70235, 1917-20
I've listed these in the format:
Name, RIC Service Number, Entry period to which this Service Number corresponds.
Using the Service Number it's possible to look up the man's service record at the National Archives. There are LDS films of the service records - the book gives references for these too.
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry McMahon
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Hi Gerry,
Thanks for the information.
Patrick Fowler is our man. I have passed the details to my friend in
UK and will come back to you if he needs any more help.
Again thanks,
Ian
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In reply to Brendan Joseph you will find a comprehensive account of the murder of James O Donoghue in Peter Hart's 'The IRA and its enemies'' 1998, Clarendan Press.
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Hello were there any Allsopps mentioned in the book Than you
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There are no Allsopps mentioned in the Hart book but you may be referring to the Herlihy books.
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Thank you for that look up, what is the Herilhy books I have never heard of them?
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Hi
Re Jom Herlihy books -
Re the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC):
Jim Herlihy, "The Royal Irish Constabulary, A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers Men 1816-1922", Four Courts Press, Dublin, 1999.
There is only one Allsop listed -
Richard Allsop, Service Number 76367
This Service Number would indicate that Richard Allsop joined the force between 29 Oct 1920 and 22 Dec 1920 - note that the RIC police force terminated in 1922. After this, the police force in the Republic of Ireland was the Garda Siochana and in Northern Ireland the RUC. Many former RIC men joined one of the new police forces.
Jim Herlihy, "The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Complete Alphabetical List of Offiers and Men", Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2001.
This is a similar-style book addressing the Dublin Metropolitan Police. There are no Allsops listed.
Jim Herlihy, who was himself a Garda officer, has also written several other very useful books on the history of the Irish police forces.
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry McMahon
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Thank you very much for all that information I will see if I can get some more information on Richard Allsopp.
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Hi all,
Just came across this thread and wondered if anyone could tell me a little bit more about the books mentioned.
I'm looking for two DMPs that were father and son. Both called O'Malley. The father came from the West of Ireland. The son had a daughter born in Dublin in the mid-1860s but I've yet to find a birth record. At present I have no other details for either of them.
Would Herlihy's book be likely to have information on the relationship between these men (otherwise I guess there will be too many O'Malleys to narrow it down)?
Does anyone know of any other resources that might help me to follow this up?
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Hi
The index book for the DMP is:
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1836-1925, Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2001.
He also wrote (in adition to his books on the RIC):
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Short History and Genealogical Guide, Four Courts Press, 2001.
Unlike the RIC List, the DMP List gives the birth year and native Parish and County of the member, in addition to the DMP Registered Number. Herlihy also indicates where a member was Ex-Constabulary - i.e. formerly a Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) member, or was later a member of the Garda (the police force in Southern Ireland after Partition - this force is still in operation).
Page 199 of the DMP LIst gives five O'Malley entries -
O'Malley, Austin, DMP 10023, born 1874, Aughavale, Co. Mayo
O'Malley, George, DMP 2263, born 1812, Frankford, Co. Tyrone; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, George, DMP 2332, born 1814, Westport, Co. Mayo, Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Martin, DMP 5659, born 1836, St. Michan's, Dublin City; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Patrick, DMP 12226, born 1902, Kilmeena, Co. Mayo; Garda, died 1948.
The DMP Registered Number allows the actual member's record to be accessed at the National Archives (Dublin or Kew) or the Garda Museum (the LDS has this data too).
Further information on Ex-Constabulary members can be got from the RIC records - bearing in mind that the Herlihy RIC List only gives RIC Registered Number - so you might need to look up RIC membership entries for, say, George O'Malley before finding the correct one.
If children of the O'Malley member (son of a West of Ireland-born member) were born in the mid 1860s then there is only one member who might be the father from the West of Ireland - George O'Malley (born 1814, Mayo). Martin O'Malley (born 1836, Dublin) could be the son. However, bear in mind that in the earlier years of the force the records may not have been complete.
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry McMahon
Dublin
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Gerry, are there any mentions of Edward Dowzard?
Kooky
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Hi Kooky
What an unusual name - but yes, there are five entries!! -
Dowzard, Edward, DMP 7864, born 1854, Kilpipe, Co. Wicklow
Dowzard, John, DMP 7376, born 1849, Killaveney, Co. Wicklow
Dowzard, William, DMP 2763, born 1820, Kilpipe, Co. Wicklow
Dowzard, William, DMP 3453, born 1820, Kilpipe, Co. Wicklow
Dowzard, William, DMP 7584, born 1852, Kilpipe, Co. Wicklow
The Civil Parish of Kilpipe is in South Wicklow. This corresponds roughly to the Roman Catholic Parish of Kilaveny and Annacurra.
There are no Dowzard entries in the Herlihy RIC List.
best regards
Gerry
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THANK YOU!
This is very interesting!
Edward and John may be the brothers or cousins of my gt gr mother Susan Boshell nee Dowzard.
Kooky
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Hi
The index book for the DMP is:
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1836-1925, Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2001.
He also wrote (in adition to his books on the RIC):
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Short History and Genealogical Guide, Four Courts Press, 2001.
Unlike the RIC List, the DMP List gives the birth year and native Parish and County of the member, in addition to the DMP Registered Number. Herlihy also indicates where a member was Ex-Constabulary - i.e. formerly a Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) member, or was later a member of the Garda (the police force in Southern Ireland after Partition - this force is still in operation).
Page 199 of the DMP LIst gives five O'Malley entries -
O'Malley, Austin, DMP 10023, born 1874, Aughavale, Co. Mayo
O'Malley, George, DMP 2263, born 1812, Frankford, Co. Tyrone; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, George, DMP 2332, born 1814, Westport, Co. Mayo, Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Martin, DMP 5659, born 1836, St. Michan's, Dublin City; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Patrick, DMP 12226, born 1902, Kilmeena, Co. Mayo; Garda, died 1948.
The DMP Registered Number allows the actual member's record to be accessed at the National Archives (Dublin or Kew) or the Garda Museum (the LDS has this data too).
Further information on Ex-Constabulary members can be got from the RIC records - bearing in mind that the Herlihy RIC List only gives RIC Registered Number - so you might need to look up RIC membership entries for, say, George O'Malley before finding the correct one.
If children of the O'Malley member (son of a West of Ireland-born member) were born in the mid 1860s then there is only one member who might be the father from the West of Ireland - George O'Malley (born 1814, Mayo). Martin O'Malley (born 1836, Dublin) could be the son. However, bear in mind that in the earlier years of the force the records may not have been complete.
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry McMahon
Dublin
Dear Gerry,
thank you so much. I need to discuss this with my cousins but I think that Martin may tie up well with an IGI entry giving a possible 1864 birth registration for my great-grandmother and that Westport may have been mentioned as a possible place of origin for the family so it looks like you have found the right guys here.
Well done and thanks again,
Sheila
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Hi Gerry
I recently found out my gggranfather was a constable in the DMP and was wondering if there was a mention of him. His Name was John Phelan.
Regards
Deevla
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Hi Deevla
There are seven John Phelan entries in Jim Herlihy's DMP List (Page 204):
John Phelan, DMP 1805, born 1816, Roscrea, Co.Tipperary
John Phelan, DMP 6190, born 1841, Kilmainham, Co. Dublin
John Phelan, DMP 6262, born 1835, Corneriss, Queen's County, Ex-RIC 20463
John Phelan, DMP 8279, born 1850, Borrisinossory, Queen's County, died 1878
John Phelan, DMP 8648, born 1856, Raheen, Queen's County, died 1911
John Phelan, DMP 9568, born 1869, Bagenalstown, Co. Carlow
John J. Phelan, DMP 11750, born 1899, Blackrock, Co. Dublin, Garda
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
I have a gg uncle Morty O'Donoghue born 1841 Kerry, enlisted in the RIC 1861, he emigrated to Rhode Island 1868, I wonder is he listed, he was the uncle of Sgt. James O'Donoghue who was shot in Cork 1921.
He may also have a brother Daniel who also enlisted.
Brendan
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Hi Brendan
Jim Herlihy's DMP List shows five O'Donoghue/O'Donohoe entries (page 198):
[Name, DMP Reg. No., Year of Birth, Native Parish, Native County]
O'Donoghue, Daniel, DMP 10106, born 1878, Castlegregory, Co. Kerry
O'Donoghue, Edward, DMP 5342, born 1836, St. Peter's, Queen's County
O'Donohoe, Edward, DMP 5403, born 1835, Mountmellick, Queen's County
O'Donohoe, Michael, DMP 7773, born 1854, Killanerin, Co. Wexford
O'Donohoe, Thomas, DMP 9165, born 1862, St. Mary's, Co. Kilkenny
The Herlihy RIC List is a larger database; unfortunately it only gives the name of the member and his RIC Reg. Number - no information on birth year or county of origin. From the Reg. Number it is possible to estimate the approx year of entry, however.
There are 37 O'Donoghue/O'Donohoe entries (page 370-371) in the Herlihy RIC List.
There is only one Morty O'Donoghue/O'Donohoe:
Morty O'Donohoe, RIC Reg No. 26605 [Nov 1859-Oct 1861]
There is only one Daniel O'Donoghue/O'Donohoe:
Daniel O'Donoghue, RIC Reg No. 36755 [Oct 1868-Oct 1871]
Daniel O'Donoghue, RIC Reg No. 41854 [Feb 1875-May1877]
The data in [] brackets is the date range within which the RIC Reg No. falls.
I hope this helps.
best regards
Gerry McMahon
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Hi there I've just started doing my family tree and have started with my great-granfather. His name was Hugh May(e), was an RIC Officer and he died in 1923. Is there any way you could provide me with his service no. so I could check the records?
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Hi Barryjmay
Do you have an estimate of Hugh May(e)'s birth year? This would give an idea of when he might have joined and would help narrow down multiple possible entries.
best regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry. Yes actually i would estimate that he was23-27 when he died. This would have meant he was born sometime from 1897-1901.
Thanks
Barry
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Barry
In -
Jim Herlihy, The Royal Irish Constabulary: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1816-1922, Four Courts Press, Dublin, 1999
There are
34 May surname entries.
5 Maye surname entries.
There is only one Hugh May(e) entry -
Hugh May - RIC Service Number 65874
RIC Service Numbes 65001-67000 cover the period Sep 1909 to 16 Dec 1912
So he probably joined in 1910 or 1911.
LDS Microfilm Reel 0852092 covers this range of Service Numbers.
The dates suggests that he was born about 1891 or earlier.
best regards
Gerry
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Barry
In Census of Ireland 1911, there is an entry for a Hugh May (26), then a labourer, in the Parish of Urney, Co.Cavan.
See http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
best regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
Just to add to the previous reply. I found out that my great granfather Hugh May joined the RIC in 1911.
Hope this helps!
Barry
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Barry
Yes that fits. Looks like he was older than your previous estimate. He may be the Hugh May (26) in the 1911 Census - so he would be about 38 when he died.
best regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
No that wasn't him. There is no record of him in the 1911 census. He is in the 1901 census of Sligo aged 14, which would mean he was born in and around 1887. Thanks for all your help - its much appreciated!
Kind regards,
Barry
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Barry
Interesting! He may have been in the RIC at the time of the 1911 Census. If so, he may be listed in the census return for his RIC station as 'HM' - I've often seen the RIC members shown with initials only like this - probably for security reasons. When a member didn't reside at the police station, you will often find him listed elsewhere in the town/village - at his lodgings.
best regards
Gerry
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Dear |Gerry,
I just have one final question before I continue my search. Can I get more information on Hugh May through thge national archives in dublin or do i need to go over to Kew in England?
Kind regards,
Barry May
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Dublin City Library (Pearse Street) seems to hold copies of the RIC films - see Royal Irish Constabulary Records 1816 - 1922 (http://www.dublincity.ie/RecreationandCulture/libraries/Heritage%20and%20History/Family%20History/Pages/royal_irish_constabulary_records.aspx)
Shane
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John Phelan, DMP 8648, born 1856, Raheen, Queen's County, died 1911
In need of some help please
How can i find out more info, not sure if this is my John phelan, but it is the most likely match. I have him on the 1911 census age 49 yrs old. I cant find a birth record match, I have a 1903 marriage cert for his son and it states his profession as labourer so he must have joined after this. His address remains the same from 1903-1911.
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If he was 49 in 1911 he would have been born c1862 and registration of births didn't start until 1864 so there will be no birth certificate. For pre-1864 dates you need to search for church records (if the records still exist).
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Thanks for your reply. I will start looking into that. Any tips on where to start searching?
Regards
Deevla
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Have you located his marriage ? Based on the place of birth of his children and wife I'd say Co. Dublin (or City) is the most likely location, and there's a few possible matches on the Civil Index..
Shane
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I havent been able to locate his marriage either as I only know his wifes 1st name was bridget so extremely hard to find a match.
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I dont think any Co. Offaly parish records are available on Line at the moment - but believe the IFHF are planning to add some this year. The alternative is searching the microfilms in the National Library. Do you know which parish he was born in ?
Shane
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I'm afraid I dont know which parish he came from only that he came from Queens county.
Regards
Deevla
edit
I have attached the census return
Any help greatly appreciated.
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might be an idea trying for a birth cert for one of his children - that would give you Bridget's maiden name, which would help locating the correct marriage cert. There's only one good match for Matthew's birth :
Name: Matthew Phelan
Registration district: Dublin North
Record type: Marriage
quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1889
Volume: 2 / Page: 420
edit - I've seen the census return for him.. he's the only John Phelan DMP officer
Shane
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Thanks shane I will do that.
Regards
Deevla
Happy New Year to you and thanks for all the help you have given me. :)
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I dont think any Co. Offaly parish records are available on Line at the moment - but believe the IFHF are planning to add some this year. The alternative is searching the microfilms in the National Library. Do you know which parish he was born in ?
woops!!... that should have read Co. Laois.. but the comment still applies, the IFHF are working on these at the moment.
John Phelan, DMP 8648, born 1856, Raheen, Queen's County, died 1911...
The townland of Raheen is split between a few civil parishes : Kyle, Kilteale, Clonenagh / Clonagheen & Rathdowney. Corresponding RC parishes are : Kyle & Knock (P.2479), Portlaoise/Maryborough (P.4201), Mountrath (P. 4201), Rathdowney (P.5013/5014/2014). NLI microfilm numbers in brackets. You can view the NLI index to films at : http://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx
Shane
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Please can you help me? I'm looking for a John Pearce , my ggg grandad, a policeman/constable in Dublin, His 2 daughters born approx 1845 + - 5yrs. Daughters came to nz 1866. So i would imagine he would have been a policeman between 1826 and 1876. I know very little else. Please help me , this iss my brick wall.
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Hi
I know this is an old post, but i'm trying to finf info on my Grandfather who i think may have been in the Black & Tans. I understand from the posts that you have Jim Herlihy's books and was wondering if there was a Sidney Stacey mentioned.
Hoping you can help, many thanks
Katherine
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Hi
The index book for the DMP is:
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Complete Alphabetical List of Officers and Men 1836-1925, Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2001.
He also wrote (in adition to his books on the RIC):
Jim Herlihy, The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Short History and Genealogical Guide, Four Courts Press, 2001.
Unlike the RIC List, the DMP List gives the birth year and native Parish and County of the member, in addition to the DMP Registered Number. Herlihy also indicates where a member was Ex-Constabulary - i.e. formerly a Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) member, or was later a member of the Garda (the police force in Southern Ireland after Partition - this force is still in operation).
Page 199 of the DMP LIst gives five O'Malley entries -
O'Malley, Austin, DMP 10023, born 1874, Aughavale, Co. Mayo
O'Malley, George, DMP 2263, born 1812, Frankford, Co. Tyrone; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, George, DMP 2332, born 1814, Westport, Co. Mayo, Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Martin, DMP 5659, born 1836, St. Michan's, Dublin City; Ex-Constabulary
O'Malley, Patrick, DMP 12226, born 1902, Kilmeena, Co. Mayo; Garda, died 1948.
The DMP Registered Number allows the actual member's record to be accessed at the National Archives (Dublin or Kew) or the Garda Museum (the LDS has this data too).
Further information on Ex-Constabulary members can be got from the RIC records - bearing in mind that the Herlihy RIC List only gives RIC Registered Number - so you might need to look up RIC membership entries for, say, George O'Malley before finding the correct one.
If children of the O'Malley member (son of a West of Ireland-born member) were born in the mid 1860s then there is only one member who might be the father from the West of Ireland - George O'Malley (born 1814, Mayo). Martin O'Malley (born 1836, Dublin) could be the son. However, bear in mind that in the earlier years of the force the records may not have been complete.
I hope this helps
best regards
Gerry McMahon
Dublin
Hi Gerry,
Sorry to be asking for more when you have already been so helpful but, following up your suggestions I have now discovered that Martin O'Malley does seem to have some family connection, though possibly is not the one I am looking for. His father appears to be William O'Malley and DMP and/or RIC and there is also a John, who is the son of a William too and also a "policeman". There is a Thomas O'Malley too who, in 1911, is aged 60 and is an RIC pensioner and also seems to have connections with the same family. I'd be very grateful if you could find any RIC or DMP information for John, who we now think is the brother of Martin, their father William or this Thomas O'Malley.
Sheila
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Reference Deevla's .......John Phelan, DMP 8648, born 1856, Raheen, Queen's County, died 1911
Just finished reading through the posts on the above.
This may be a long, long shot but I am posting here in case there may be something of significance.
I am researching Martha Phelan (1853-1941) who was the daughter of Michael Phelan and Catherine Kinnerney, Roskelton, Queens County. The story so far is that Catherine was the second wife of Michael. His first wife Eliza Murphy died young and his third wife was Catherine Quigley.
Local information has it that Catherine Kinnerney died in childbirth (at birth of Martha) Martha's other sibling was John Phelan (1851- ?) Both their births are registered at Raheen Roman Catholic Church register. Martha is my GGM
I have failed to find any record (other than birth) of John in the County Laois records and so far I have not got any lead on his movements. This is why I examined the postings for Deevla closely. A check through the IFHF database, the 1901 and 1911 Census of Ireland and the Church of Latter day Saints index search shows up the following.
1. Children of John Phelan and Bridget on both census returns at Gaelic Street Dublin
2. Marriage of John Phelan and Bridget Chamley 27 November 1882.....Ballybrack
3. The mother is spelled Chambley on marriage record, Chamblay on Matthews birth record and Chamley for birth record of Bridget Agnes.
Have you obtained any more information on your John? Does any of the above fit into your research ?
Regards. Patrick Phelan
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Hi Patrick
That is indeed my John Phelan at points 1,2 and 3 but his mothers name was Mary (surname not recorded on his marriage cert) His fathers name was Michael Phelan. I Found a good birth match for him on ifhf 1854, mothers name Mary Costigan but not 100% sure about that as i haven't followed it up. I also found a possible match for a brother Thomas Phelan born 1846.
Regards Deevla
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Deevla! Great that you had success with your research. The mothers surname Costigan eliminates this John Phelan for me.
Best wishes for continued success in your research.
Patrick Phelan
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Just wanted to ask if any of you have looked up full records for DMPs in the National Archives at Dublin or Kew, could you describe what sort of additional information was available?
In particular, if someone was discharged on pension, would their record have their date of death, or any other life events, recorded?
Presumably there must be a pensions list somewhere so that they knew when to stop paying. Would this be available at the National Archives?
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I may be wrong, but as far as I know the only copy of the DMP records for men's service is in the Guarda Museum in Dublin Castle. Anyway that is where I read the copy I saw
The records are not full, but are in a ledger with sketchy details of a man's joining and career
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I've never looked at DMP records, but I've seen a reference that the records are available in the National Archive Dublin on microfilm (MFA 6/3)
I'd guess that it may also be in Pearse St Library
eadaoin
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thanks guys,
looks like a job for my next trip to Dublin then.
Sheila
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found some notes on the details included Service Registers of the DMP mentioned above. These cover records from the foundation of the service in 1836 up to 1925 when it was merged with An Garda Síochana. Available on microfilm in the National Archives, and the originals seem to be held in the Record Tower, Dublin Castle.
Warrant Number
Previous Warrant number (if any)
Full Name
Religion - from 1856
Age at time of joining (date of birth from 1880s)
Height
Previous trade or Occupation
County of birth
Native parish - usually civil parish, but sometimes RC
Post Town (of place of birth)
Previous public service - e.g. RIC, LMP, Revenue Police
Name of Sponsor
Divisions served in - with dates of transfer
Dates - joining, promotion etc
Service Pay
Date and reason for Removal - e.g. discharge, pensioned, death..
New warrant number
Notes
Shane
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Thanks Shane,
It will definitely be worth a visit then.
I'm also now wondering if another closely-connected family line may have been DMPs too.
I know that DMPs were encouraged to drop name prefixes and wondered if this could account for a possible name change. So I would be looking for Quirk(e), McQuirk(e) or McGuirk(e), probably from Westmeath, who may or may not be related.
Sheila