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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: Lorand on Friday 26 June 09 04:18 BST (UK)
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Please could someone advise on which would be the best website to get a South African marriage cert for my parents in 1945, and a birth cert. for my father in 1921.
I am hoping to start researching this side of the family, but have very little to go on without these certificates. I believe the family originally descended from the French Huguenots, so will need some help there too, but need the names of grandparents first.
Many thanks
Lorraine
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Hello Lorand
Try searching on N.A.A.I.R.S. When you have located the various certificates you need, then email the relevant departments requesting details and/or copies.
Perhaps post some details on here as well..........? ???
Another RootsChatter may well already have researched your family for you! ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Thanks for the info Danchaslyn. I'll try that. I have already put a request out for my parents marriage cert and father's birth cert, but no response unfortunately. :(
My mother was Janet McCall and my father Johannes Jacobus Christopher Botes, (known as Chris) and were married on 20 Oct, 1945 in J'burg. My father was born in Kimberley on 22 November 1921. His mother's name was Susara, but don't know her maiden name or any others in the family.
Any help would be appreciated.
Lorraine
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You would have to apply to the Department of Home Affairs for both a marriage and a birth certificate. To do so you need to know the exact date and place of both events and of course there is a charge for the documents.
It is probably easier to find a researcher to get them for you as you might have to wait a long time if you apply by post.
Birth Marriage & Death certificates are NOT available on NAAIRS
Liz
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Hi Lorand :)
If you are from the Huguenots you would be from the Cape originally
Do you know the names of your mother's parents?
If you get some info I'll try to help from this end!
Have you tried the Familysearch.org site for Botes.
Ouma :)
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Hi Lorand
I HAVE received many Death Notices of relatives from the South African NAAIRS, some as recently as in the past fortnight.
To get them, I trawled through all the Archive sections until I found death notice reference numbers, using just the names of relatives.
Once I had the Death Notice certificates, they show so much. Names of the parents, places of birth of the parents, date of death of the relative, cause of death, place of death.
All siblings are listed and if they are deceased, their date of death.
Also spousal details.
So, as per my post #2, trawl through NAAIRS until you find the Death Notice refs for Janet McCall and Johannes Jacobus Christopher Botes, and apply for their Death Notices.
These Death Notices should then give you all the other relevant details you seek. NAAIRS have always responded very quickly to my requests, which is gratifying.
Happy searching
Danchaslyn
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Hello Lorand
As Ouma says, if you are of Huguenot descent, you probably were originally from the Cape Province.
As such, when looking in NAAIRS try the Cape Section first, although by mid-last C, anyone is likely to have moved around to any of the other provinces!
Ouma is an absolute Super Star at sleuthing, so any offer she gives you is worth gold...........
Good luck to you both ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Hi Ouma and Danchaslyn,
Thanks for all your help. My mother's side (from Scotland) is not a problem as I have researched it in the Scottish threads, but it's my father's side that is a mystery as all I have is his name and his mother's first name. I looked in NAAIRS, but couldn't see anything that might give me a birth or marriage cert.
As I have mentioned in other posts, my father was born in Kimberley on 22 Nov 1921 and my parents were married in J'burg on 20 Oct 1945. I would like to know the maiden name of my dad's mother, Susara, and her parents names as well as the names of his father and grandparents. I seem to remember them saying they were from Huguenot stock.
My parents moved to Rhodesia in 1948 and so I didn't have much contact with any siblings, aunts, uncles etc. who were still living in S Africa.
Unfortunately, I have not come across any others in Rootschat doing this family tree .... live in hope ;D
Ouma, if you can give any clues, I would be very grateful. ;D
Lorraine
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Hi Lorand
I suppose you don't know what church and where it is that your folks got married in? 'Cause then you could approach the Church.
On Naairs I see a lot of Susara's but not knowing the maiden name is terrible! ??? ???
Do you know any other names even if you thought that they were not related. Names were also handed down in families until the English ;D came to stay! ;D ;D
That's how I found out about my grandmother's family. My Dad insisted that this "Aunt" as he called her was not related but it turned out to be my grandmothers cousin!
I'm taking it that your Dad is dead, in Rhodesia or South Africa?
Home Affairs is the place to get Marriage, Death (20 years) and Birth (100year Ban) :'( if you know the exact dates and places and it does cost.
If you know any relatives living in South Africa, Now is a good time to contact them!!!
Sometimes we leave things to late and miss learning something.
Keep me posted and I'll keep trying to find ;D
Ouma
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Been looking for a Huguenot connection but the first Botes in South Africa was
Wietse Botes born 1712 from Enkhuizen Holland, married Anna Pieterse and they arrived with
3 children in 1744
1 child: Hilletje
2 Anthonie
3 Boote
and the 4th who was born here was Maria Anna
Maybe a female Hugenot married into the Botes family ;)
Ouma
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Hi Ouma
As soon as Lorand has replied we can certainly get going on this mystery! :o
If Lorand's mother and father are still, or were in Rhodesia, I've many contacts I can ask. Some family are still there!! >:(
I also used to know a Botes family in Johannesburg! ;D
Need to clarify one point though, I've been very successful in getting Death Notices from, yes, wait, for it, again, NAAIRS. And, they have every detail to help ancestry research. See my post of Mon, 27 July.
Only thing is, that they are not always accurate with spellings! ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
:)
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Hi Danchaslyn
I only use Naairs to see if they have any info before going into the CT Archives. (Not all information
has been put on there) so I use the Archive's ref books etc and request documents that way! ;D
After 20 years death, divorce and other info are handed over to the Archives but its the Birth ones
which I've been told we have to wait 100 years! ??? Maybe its because some info would upset
family's ;)
As far as Lorand's dad if he is still alive he could request a copy of his birth certificate and I've come
across a Susara Botes but Botes being the maiden name.
Yep, it all sounds like a good mystery ;D
Ouma
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Hello Ouma and Danchaslyn,
Sorry to reply so late. I am in Oz, so always a big time difference.
My family left S Africa in 1948 and went to Rhodesia, then returned to Durban in 1970's. Both parents died in Durban, my dad on 7 July 1985 and my mom on 8 Dec 1987.
I think they were married in Mayfair, J'burg in the Presbyterian Church.
My dad had a heap of siblings and as far as I can remember, he had sisters, named Betty, Gertie and another named Miems whose married name was Beckley. She lived in Bloemfontein in 1960 and 70's. One brother was Jaapie, another, Boet, but these must have been nick names. His siblings always lived in S Africa. We were the only ones who moved around, that's the trouble.
Anyway, will be glad to have some light shed on the mystery.
Thanks to you both for all your efforts.
Lorraine
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Hello Ouma
Can't tell you how I envy you being able to pop into the CT Archives! Is it in an historic building? Must be amazing to have all that exciting info at your fingertips! ;D
What a great idea that if Lorand Dad is still alive, that he apply to the Home Affairs for his Birth Certificate. ;)
Can imagine if free access, whenever was allowed to the "Births", some would discover they don't quite have the parents they thought they did!!! >:(
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hello Lorand
So, so sorry, have had pc connectivity problems for THREE days, hence my not being able to reply to both you and Ouma before now.
AND, as I hadn't been able to access RC, I had only one message and answered Ouma, before I received and read your post. So, both your folks are gone, we'll have to think of other ways of finding your family.
Again, maybe back to NAAIRS, could we perhaps, with all the details, find your parents' Death notices, in the CT Archives, as over 20 years HAS elapsed? ???
These would hopefully show many more of your rellies names etc. ;D
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hello Lorand
Have had a look in both the TBD (Durban) and the RSA (generally around SA) archives database, and so far haven't been able to find any documents relating to either your Dad, or your Mom.
We'll think of something yet! ;)
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hello to you both,
You two have been so good to try and help me. I realise that trying to find my S African side is VERY difficult and painstaking. I should have mentioned that my folks were divorced in 1964 and my mother remarried. Her new name was Janet Geldard and she died in the Westville Hosp. I'm not sure if that would help as it is not my mother's side I'm trying to find.
I came across an old bible from my dad's mother and she had her name in it as Susara Maria, but it doesn't help as I don't know her maiden name. I will have another go with NAAIRS, but may be off line for a couple of days ... having a minor op. tomorrow, so will catch up ASAP.
Many thanks
Lorraine
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Hi, sorry to jump in but just wanted to clarify for anyone who doesn't know - a copy of a death NOTICE would probably be obtainable through the archive (NAAIRS) but a death CERTIFICATE would only be available from the Dept of Home Affairs.
Ceeoh
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Hello Ceeoh
Yes, exactly, thank you. I've seen both, but haven't seen a Death CERTIFICATE for decades.
Would it show anything besides the names of person who died, date of death, cause of death, place of death and possibly home address?
I know with the Death NOTICES I currently have, from NAAIRS, they are so very helpful, as they do show the parents of the deceased, even siblings, along with all the above details as listed for the Death Certificate, bar the Cause of Death.
Perhaps more modern Death Certificates that the ones I have seen depict familial information?
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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Hi Danchaslyn
To be honest I don't know what is shown on a death certificate these days - I would say it wouldn't be anywhere near as detailed as a death notice, however, a death notice is only as accurate as the person supplying the information can make it. Sometimes folk don't actually know where someone was born, or the deceased's parent's names, etc.
A death certificate would be as near as possible correct with regards to date of death, place of death(things of the moment).
I will find out about certificates and post later.
Regards
Ceeoh
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Sorry to say not much to be discovered about certificates.
It would appear that the minimum information appears on a death certificate, this is supplied by the undertaker to Home Affairs (I think) so he can bury the deceased.
What is shown is:
Name of deceased
Age of deceased
Date of death
Cause (this is a "sticky" one)
On a piece of paper A5, so obviously an abridged one.
The norm seems to be that the cause of death is now always "by natural causes" unless it was a criminal death, (or I presume something like a road accident), not helpful for anyone researching hereditary illnesses.
Cancer, pneumonia, diabetes, heart attack, etc., would all be shown as natural causes!
Whether any other details would appear on an unabridged certificate I don't know, but certainly the death by natural causes is a "protective" measure.
These details may differ from province to province
Perhaps someone who has seen a recent certificate can give a more detailed description.
Ceeoh
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Hello Ceeoh
Both your posts are so interesting and informative, thank you so much.
The Death Certificate is as I remember them, usually signed 'off' by your own General Practitioner, depending on where the person had died, and, as you say, the undertaker plays quite a role.
The Death Notices, on the other hand (from NAAIRS) are full of information, and certainly for me, have been in some instances the actual key to doors which previously have refused to budge.
Lorand, like yourself, I couldn't find anywhere, my paternal grandfather's, wife's maiden name. From NAAIRS I recently acquired one of his daughter's Death Notice, and there was her mother's maiden name! Country of birth, all spousal details, all offspring details, date of death, place of death, home address etc etc.
What was great, that from not being able to find out anything, this Death Notice divulging the maiden name of the wife, led me to search on IGI, and the only time this has happened for me, her family's full Pedigree was there, right back to 1650!
Cheers
Danchaslyn
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