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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: arj8122 on Thursday 25 June 09 21:18 BST (UK)

Title: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: arj8122 on Thursday 25 June 09 21:18 BST (UK)
Hi
I am trying to trace master mariners: Geroge Gordon Carruthers, Forrest Priest Carruthers, and George Charles Carruthers all of whom are based around the Swansea area. All three are also on the Llyods shipping registar but i am struggling to trace their ships. I have found Forest and George with Minero in Swansea records, and Abyssina with a George Carruthers, and a ETA with a George G Carruthers but no other information. Any ideas on where to try for more about them or their ships?
A
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: Shipwright23 on Friday 26 June 09 08:43 BST (UK)
Lloyds registers  once you have found them in there it will give you the Masters no then you`ll be able to trace the masters Ticket  which you can buy a fotocopy of from the NMM it will list every ship served on from bin an apprentice. Look for the ships names it will list the Masters.
shipwright
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: snowball on Friday 26 June 09 08:46 BST (UK)
Hi,
By way of background here are two of the brothers named in relation to claims on the estate of a Celia Carr in 1921: http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/32209/pages/824
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 26 June 09 08:51 BST (UK)
Link to online Captains Registers index http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Friday 26 June 09 08:56 BST (UK)
There's a legal notice in The Times 26 January 1921 page 4 column D....looking for descendants of Forrest Priest Carruthers in connection with the estate of his sister Cecilia Louisa Carr formerly Carruthers
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: Beximus on Friday 26 June 09 12:10 BST (UK)
www.swanseamariners.org.uk

This website has been set up by a gentleman going through the crew agreements at the West Glamorgan Archive Servicem and covers people who at one time or another sailed out of Swansea.  If you can find a ship name, then the Archives will have the agreements here.

At first glance, there does appear to be a George Gordon on there, on the ship ETA in 1842, born in Hounslow.  Have a look on the site and see if there's anything there that will help.
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: gortonboy on Friday 26 June 09 22:24 BST (UK)
hi...according to records i found on findmypast,,,,george gordon carruthers and a lucy ann carruthers {nee morgan} had 3 children ,,,all born at sea...albert ernest born 27/2/1878 aboard the minero,,,,,llewellyn b 8/10/182 aboard the minero and percy b 23/3/1887 aboard the parthia.      hope this is of some help.
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: gortonboy on Friday 26 June 09 22:30 BST (UK)
there is an f carruthers b c 1850  aboard 2 ships out of newport,,,,,the llanthewy and the marpessa.if the dates are are correct,,can provide more details,
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: arj8122 on Saturday 27 June 09 10:09 BST (UK)
Hi all,
Thanks for all your comments they have been really helpful!
the f carruthers mentioned seems to fit the dates of one of the people in the tree.. another Forrest I think, so that information mentioned would be really appreciated!
Also I have been tracing the parents of George Gordon and Forrest Priest Carruthers who are a Thomas Bell Carruthers and Cecilia Lydia Priest. I have seen the request mentioned about them in another post, and having traced them on ancestry have only found Cecilia Lydia in all but the 1841 census never with Thomas, only their children - is it possible that he too was a master mariner? Unfortunatly due to not finding him on any other records I have no idea of his birth date/place - though his wife cecilia was born in London abt 1817.
Any ideas would be really appreciated
Thanks
A
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 10:39 BST (UK)
Thomas Bell Carruthers was in the service of the Honourable East India Company:

Bristol Mercury  September 2nd 1865

Marriages

August 21 at the parish church Swansea ......Forrest Priest eldest son of the late Thomas Bell Carruthers Esq H.E.I.C. Service, to Julia second daughter of Mr Charles Lamb of Pier Street Swansea.

There was also a Thomas Bell Carruthers, wholesale cheesemonger of Dowgate Hill London who was the subject of bankruptcy proceedings in 1838/9.
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: arj8122 on Saturday 27 June 09 10:44 BST (UK)
Hi
thank you very much that is very interesting.  :)Could you tell how to access records of the H.E.I.C?
You have made my day - it is all quite exciting!
A
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 10:50 BST (UK)
Marriage 24 December 1835 at Chiswick
 
Thomas Bell Carruthers and Cecilia Lydia Priest
 

 
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 10:54 BST (UK)
The records are at the British Library. There's this bit in the online database:

Thomas Bell Carruthers

16 Sep 1830  Thomas Bell Carruthers, Bond & Covenant, Free Mariner, Madras, Amount of security: £500, Sureties: Edward F. Long, Crosby Square, Merchant. Richard Carruthers, Lower Thames Street, Merchant., Authority of Court: 15 Sep 1830 Transcribed by: FIBIS India Office Records Reference:
Z/O/1/10 No. 7857   Source edition: Presidency: Madras


http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000322108

Also try FIBIS http://www.fibis.org/
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: Beximus on Saturday 27 June 09 11:02 BST (UK)
Hi

I'm visiting the Swansea archives in a couple of weeks - do you want me to have look at the parish registers, see if I can find the entry for that marriage?

Also, I've just had a look on the Cambrian Index Online (http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/?Lang=eng) newspaper search, and there seems to be a few articles in there regarding Carruthers that are linked to your family, including these 3 very interesting ones:

Quote
Cambrian B10 MARRIAGES, MARRIAGE  25 August 1865 ON 21 AUGUST AT ST.MARY'S, SWANSEA, FORREST CARRUTHERS, MARINER, TO JULIA LAMB, SWANSEA.

Cambrian B10 MARRIAGES, MARRIAGE  01 September 1865 ON 21 AUGUST AT ST.MARY'S, SWANSEA, F.PRIEST CARRUTHERS, TO JULIA LAMB, OF SWANSEA. 

Cambrian B10 MARRIAGES, MARRIAGE  01 September 1865 P8. LETTER FROM C.L.CARRUTHERS OBJECTING TO 'FORGED' MARRIAGE ANNOUNCEMENT, PREVIOUS WEEK. 

I would definitely recommend having a look through the index to see if there's anything useful.

I've also noticed while looking at the index, that Cecilia Lydia was headmistress of the Hafod Copperworks Girl's School.  Have you looked at this info before?
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: arj8122 on Saturday 27 June 09 11:06 BST (UK)
Hi
Thanks for that I will have a look at that site now. As mentioned above a marriage was found by ShaunJ in Chiswick of a thomas Bell Carruthers and cecilia lydia which seems to fit as all their children were born after this date. However I would REALLY appreciate it if yo could look to see if there is any records of Thomas Bell's birth as I still don't know when or where he was born - the unfortunate thing is that it might not be Swansea. Please only do so if you have finished what you aim to do first!
Thank you
A
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 11:07 BST (UK)
Someone else researching this family back in 1999:

http://genforum.genealogy.com/priest/messages/285.html
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 11:11 BST (UK)
This could be Thomas' baptism in the IGI:

THOMAS BELL CARRUTHERS
 Birth:  17 SEP 1808   
 Christening:  18 AUG 1818   St Botolph By Billingsgate, London, London, England
 

  Father:  RICHARD CARRUTHERS
  Mother:  ANN BIRD 

I wonder if it's the same Richard Carruthers who stood security for Thomas in 1830?
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: arj8122 on Saturday 27 June 09 11:13 BST (UK)
Hi
Oh wow!  ;D This is so exciting - did you find that out on the family search website? This is so useful and very very helpful.
Thank you everyone!
A
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 27 June 09 11:15 BST (UK)
1819 London PO Directory

Carruthers R Cheesemonger and dealer in Hams 8&9 Lower Thames Street
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: snowball on Saturday 27 June 09 18:12 BST (UK)
Hi - Richard Carruthers, cheesemonger, subject of bankrupty proceedings here in 1837:
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/issues/19480/pages/905 (top column 2)
Rob
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: gortonboy on Sunday 28 June 09 14:58 BST (UK)
f carruthers b 1850
place of birth-silloth
previous ship-llanthewy
capacity-ships mate
vessel name-llanthewy
vessel no-89759
period for crew list-7 nov 1899-31 dec 1899
master-wm j burnett
masters address-112 weatherall street,goole,yorkshire
owner-wm brooks-16 kensington place
port-newport
port registry no-13
port registry year-1884
gross tonnage-420
net tonnage-148
horse power-50
no of seamen-8
repositorys reference no-D.907.8.69
log book available?-no
record source-monmouthshire record office

the other record is much the same,,it staes he was aboard the llanthewy from 10 oct 1899-6 nov 1899   and says his previous ship was the marpessa.   
Title: Re: Master Mariners
Post by: Beximus on Wednesday 08 July 09 16:52 BST (UK)
Hi
Thanks for that I will have a look at that site now. As mentioned above a marriage was found by ShaunJ in Chiswick of a thomas Bell Carruthers and cecilia lydia which seems to fit as all their children were born after this date. However I would REALLY appreciate it if yo could look to see if there is any records of Thomas Bell's birth as I still don't know when or where he was born - the unfortunate thing is that it might not be Swansea. Please only do so if you have finished what you aim to do first!
Thank you
A
Hi

I've had a look at the Glamorgan Baptisms, and there are no Carruthers coming up at all in Glamorgan before 1837 I'm afraid.  I would think that the baptism in Billingsgate is probably the one you're looking for.

I didn't check what records they've got for Hafod Copperworks Girl's school, I'll have a quick look next time.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: IsAnybodyThere on Thursday 23 May 19 18:23 BST (UK)
Is 'CARRUTHERS' name still being researched? I'm a member of FOBLC (Friends of Brockley & Ladywell Cemeteries) where a Captain FORREST PRIEST CARRUTHERS is interred in the London borough of Lewisham's Ladywell Cemetery. We are interested in notables buried in our twinned (conjoined) cemeteries, and would like further info on said Captain Forrest Priest Carruthers - of his time, service, ships, etc. I noted his resting place today 23/05/2019, and wondered about him. 
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: chyne on Monday 17 June 19 20:12 BST (UK)
I believe that gravestone is for Julia, captain Forrest Priest Carruthers' widow (see "in loving memory of Julia" at the top). The captain himself died June 12, 1873.

Further, this monument was probably erected by their daughter Cecilia Julia Carruthers who married Adolphus John Edward Richardson (which would explain the bottom half of the gravestone).

According to my research, the captain was my 1st cousin, 4x removed.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: IsAnybodyThere on Monday 17 June 19 21:13 BST (UK)
So - the 'Captain Forrest Priest' is not necessarily buried here even though his name is quoted
on the gravestone. Is that right? I'm still wondering how to obtain info on 'Captain Forrest Priest'.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: chyne on Monday 17 June 19 21:35 BST (UK)
I've only recently begun researching the Carruthers (my 3rd great grand mother's family).

According to my notes, Julia left for Australia in 1892 with 3 of her adult child (all aged between 18-21). Most of the children married in Australia, so it is entirely possible that not even Julia is buried there. It's possible that Cecilia Julia Carruthers/Richardson, who didn't go to Australia with her mother and siblings because she had already married in England, added a reference to both of her parents on her husbands tombstone when he died in 1910. It may just be Richardson who is actually buried there.

As to the captain, his Masters, First Mate and Only-Mate certificates are available on Ancestry, as well as the application form he submitted for his Mates exams in 1862 (which includes ships served on until that point). If you don't have access, let me know and I can transcribe the list here.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: chyne on Monday 17 June 19 22:09 BST (UK)
So according to the burial records, both Julia Carruthers and Adolphus John Edward Richardson are in fact both buried in that grave. The captain is not recorded as being buried there.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: IsAnybodyThere on Monday 17 June 19 22:28 BST (UK)
Many thanks - Please transcribe list here as you appear to have, as it will more easily help research
on Captain Carruthers. And, thank you also for Australian connection to this Brockley Cemetery grave
that I passed again today in my frequent wandering being as I live very near.   
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: chyne on Tuesday 18 June 19 15:22 BST (UK)
For anyone who does have access to Ancestry, the record is here: https://www.ancestry.ca/interactive/2271/31936_1831101456_0302-00579. Only the Masters certificate is indexed, so if you view the image, use the arrows to view previous images which include his Mates certificates and application form.

Forrest Priest Carruthers got his Masters (captain) certificate in August 1863. Before that he got his First Mate certificate in March 1862. And before that his Only-Mate certificate in December 1859. His certificate number (which is re-used as he progressed) is 21394. On all 3 he listed his address as Hafod, Swansea, Glamorganshire (Wales), and his birth date and place as 1838, Kensington, Middlesex. His Register ticket number was 524528.

When he applied for his 1st mate certificate (March 1862), he entered his birth date as June 2, 1838 and included a list of ships on which he had served (to that point):

ShipPort of RegistryRankOriginDestinationTime Served
"Earl of Hardwick"LondonBoyLondonBombay9m 24d
"Palmyra"LondonApprenticeLondonVarious5y
"Bellona" (#4284)LondonAB (able seaman)CalcuttaLondon4m 6d
"Mangosteen"Sunderland2nd MateSwanseaCuba3m 11d
"La Serena" (#7940)SwanseaMateSwanseaSouth? America11m 25d
"Evangeline" (#24438)SunderlandMateLlanellyAlexandria5m

He stated he had 8 years of time in ships.

Notes: official ship numbers are included where he provided them. The 5 years he spent on Palmyra was indentured apprenticeship, for which there is paperwork, so I can tell you those 5 years started September 26, 1853 and ended 1858.

Burial records suggest he is buried at St. Mary's parish cemetery in Swansea.
Title: Re: Master Mariners - CARRUTHERS
Post by: IsAnybodyThere on Tuesday 18 June 19 17:53 BST (UK)
Chyne: Thank you again for your kind help with your supplied data.