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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: SMOOTHIE on Tuesday 23 June 09 23:37 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather James Millar was born in 1883. I discovered on the 1911 England census he was born in Grahmston. I persume this is Grahmston, Sterling. I looked up the birth records on scotlandspeople and can not find anyone listed as being born in 1883/1884 in the district of Grahamston.
Is Grahamston the 'district' or have I got this wrong? All I know about him, is his fathers name was George Millar.
If anyone can help my solve a long family mystery I would be very very greatful.
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Hi
Does the 1911 entry say Scotland Grahmston or just Grahmston
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Hi
Scotlandspeople index doesn't have a Registration District called Grahamston but the Grahamston, Stirlingshire one could be in Falkirk. On a previous topic you spelt it as Grahamstone, what exactly did the 1911 census say? Also, was he head of the Household?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,388420.msg2601235.html#msg2601235
You mention his fathers name was George, was that from his marriage certificate? If so, are James surname and age a constant.
Andy
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Hello Andy,
Sorry for the spelling mistake.
On the 1911 English Census he was living in Newcastle Upon Tyne. He lists himself as being born in Grahamston, Scotland, nationality British. He writes that he is 28 and head of the household. His age is consistent with his wedding certificate, which lists his fathers name as George Millar (deceased).
I looked up the birth records for 1883. There is a James listed under SLAMANNAN, STIRLING but it is not him. The other James, listed under Haggs is not him either. I checked the 1884 records and there are James listed under KILSYTH, and ST NINIANS but I don't think Grahamston is in these places. Its difficult to find anything out about Grahamston- all I can see are lots of references to its railway station and that it is in Falkirk.
Thanks
Martine
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Hi
The 1911 census was taken on the 2nd April 1911 so if he gave his age as 28, and if its accurate, then his date of birth would be between 3rd April 1882 and 2nd April 1883. You should be able to narrow it down further from his marriage certificate but the problem is, as many of us have found, ages on various documents are quite often out by a year or two.
What was James occupation on both the 1911 census and his marriage certificate and what was his fathers? This might help to find them in an earlier census
Andy
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I am in Falkirk. Grahamston is an area of Falkirk. Can I help you? :-)
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I am in Falkirk. Grahamston is an area of Falkirk. Can I help you? :-)
Unfortunately there are other Grahamston's
Grahamston Village was situated in what is now central Glasgow but was all but wiped out when they built Glasgow Central Station.
There is also another area in Barrhead called Grahamston which had a small settlement for many years.
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Thankyou Falkyrn, but if anyone does need help for this area I don't mind helping. ;)If it isn't Falkirk this time, good luck with the hunt
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My apologies, The assistance of someone with real local knowledge is always best - and I'm sure that if this James Millar is from your Grahamston that will prove to be the case.
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No problem Falkyrn and if I can assist in any way I am at your service, and anyone else who may need Falkirk help. :)
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Just to say a very belated big thanks for everyones help and advice. I hadn't realised that there had been replies to my posts. My great grandfather James Millar was in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders before WW1. He then left Scotland and fought in WW1 in he Northumberland fusiliers. We do not know when or why he left Scotland and I have not been able to get to London to look for any military records. I thought with him being in the Argyll and Sutherland highlanders it was more likely that he came from Stirling. However, I am just guessing. Lemon Nelly- any ideas about how I can search for his records in your area? I just know the year of his birth and his father’s name, which is common- George Millar. I don't even know if he had any siblings
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Hi Smoothie, his military records should be on Ancestry, I would have looked it up for you but I let my membership lapse at Christmas. Not sure if you have used Scotlands people to find the birth cert? Falkirk archives are very helpful, but if he left to live in England it is probably going to be minimal the help you would get there, though if you have anything specific you feel they can help with I can go there. The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders base is at Stirling castle, but people from a wide area including Falkirk would have joined them.
If the Grahamston you are looking for is indeed in Falkirk it is a small area, but I think untill you find the right birth cert you will always be unsure
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Thanks Lemon Nelly. The story goes that I got his Dads name from his marriage certificate. My brother (many years ago) sent off for his birth certificate. I can't remember how many years either side they searched but they said they could not find any match. I waited until the 1901 census came out and found out he was from Grahamston. I then found out there was two Grahamston’s and other members on this site said there are more than two. I went on Scotland’s people but couldn't find anything. You seemed to have to know the district, which he lived in, but I don't. I can find some James Millars but I can’t tie the record to him.
I couldn't find any matching records on the ancestory military search. Lots of James Millar’s in the regiment but the ages don’t match. I can see they have updated some records, but I am no longer a member so will have to ask someone to search again. When I contacted his regiment in Scotland they said I would need to go to London to look up the records. So frustrating. I have pictures of him in his Northumberland uniform and lots of other stuff but I just can’t find out where he came from or who his family is! He still remains a mystery after years of searching.
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Lemon Nelly. Here is one topic that you and the any kind others can help me with. I looked up the people porn in 1883 called James Millar and there are 23. One was born in SLAMANNAN/STIRLING and the other HAGGS/STIRLING. Should I be expecting to see Grahamston/STIRLING or is Grahamston a district of a place such as HAGGS? Neither is him btw. I don't want to start paying for the Glasgow records until I can clear up the district issue. I can't find any reference to Grahamston.
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This may be your James ...
James Miller - [N.B. Millar on his Medal Card]
Birth Place and Residence - Wallsend-On-Tyne
Died - 1 Jul 1916
Rank - Private Regiment: Northumberland Fusiliers
Battalion - 21st Battalion (Tyneside Scottish).
Number - 21/152 Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War- 'Aldershot' e.g. France
If this is your James, I can send you the image of his WWI Medal Card after we exchange e-mail addresses.
DDJ
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More possibilities if your James was killed in action ...
Commonwealth War Graves Commission Register
Name - MILLAR , J
Rank - Private
Service No. 21/152
Death Date - 01/07/1916
Age Unknown
Regiment - Northumberland Fusiliers
Nationality - United Kingdom
Grave/Memorial Ref. - VII. A. 7.
OVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY
***********************************************
Possible:
GEORGE LIDDELL MILLER married MARJORY REID FOREST
on 10 MAY 1870 Duddingston, Midlothian, Scotland
OPR
1881 British Census
George L. MILLER Head M Male 38 Scotland Bookseller
Margery MILLER Wife M Female 38 Scotland
William MILLER Son Male 9 Alnwick, Northumberland, England Scholar
Thomas MILLER Son Male 8 Alnwick, Northumberland, England Scholar
Jessie MILLER Daur Female 5 Alnwick, Northumberland, England Scholar
James MILLER Son Male 1 Alnmouth, Northumberland, England
Dwelling 35 Marygate
Place Berwick Upon Tweed, Northumberland, England
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Thanks so much DDJJake but its not him. He wasn't killed in action but lived until the 1940s and died at home (I have the date somewhere). I know he went to Ypres and I have several photographs of him with his regiment. One with about a hundred men and some others in Small groups. The numbers are not on it but it is definitely the Northumberland fusiliers. I have his wedding certificate, death certificate, he is on the 1901 census living with my g grandmother and yet to have children, and I know he was in one regiment and pretty certain he was in another. I know the town he was from but its not certain if this was in Sterling or somewhere else. Despite all this I can't find a birth record, military record or tie him to any census when he is single (ever though I know his fathers name is George). So annoying!!!!
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Hi Smoothie ..
It is galling to me as well because I lived in Alma Street, Grahamston, Falkirk, Stirling County in the 1940s and most of my Great x 'n' Grandparents in my mother's Telfer and Walker families lived there from about 1845 onwards ... all involved either directly or indirectly with Carron and other Ironworks.
I'll keep looking ... I have two images for a James Miller and a James Aitken Miller b.c. 1883 of Falkirk already indexed and ready to buy and download from GRO ... but I'll do that tomorrow. I don't like being beaten ... but this one is tricky ... and some!
Aye
DDJJAKE
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Thanks so so much for your help DDJJAKE. Its great to find someone who has local knowledge and you certainly have that.
I just checked the 1911 census again- sorry got mixed up with 1901. In 1911 he is down as 28, a Bricklayer, from Grahamston, Scotland. Oddly he wrote 27 and then crossed it out. I suppose its easy to make a mistake. I imagine he would have still been in Scotland in 1901, having been in the army their. Anyway, I will wait to hear if you have any luck.
Thanks again,
Martine
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Hi Smoothie,
Was James Millars mother's forename given on his marriage and/or his death certificate.
This would help to pin-point him in an 1891 Census. Do you know if he was born in or out of wedlock ?
Aye
DDJJAKE
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Hi DDJJAKE,
It didn't say who his mother was. It just said on the marriage certificate that his father was deceased. He was supposed to have left Scotland due to a family falling out, but I don't know anything further or if he had an siblings. He may have been born out of wedlock.
Thanks
Martine
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Hi all,
I've been following this thread am now intrigued too!!
I had some spare credits and had a peek at 2 James Mill*rs, both born Falkirk between 1882-1884 but neither of them have a father George.
1. James Miller, born 7th October 1884 at 92 *Barnsford, Falkirk to Robert Miller, Joiner (Journeyman) and Elizabeth Miller nee Watson
Their marriage was on 20th December 1871 at Falkirk?
*Could be Bainsford?
2. James Aitken Miller, born 14th July 1884 at Cow Wynd, Falkirk to John Miller, Iron Moulder and Mary Miller nee Aitken.
Their marriage was on 3rd June 1881 at Falkirk
James may well have been born elsewhere but lived there from an early age IF the Grahamston he mentions is the Falkirk one. This may just have been where he thought he was born?
Anne
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Hi Anne,
Good to seeyou involved in this one ... we both wasted a couple of £s in Falkirk on GRO .... och!
There is a recent book out on the Lost Village of Grahamston in Glasgow, now under Central Station ... and I found a James Millar of the right age, 17, in an orphanage in Glasgow in the 1901 Census.
I found yet another fit in 246 St Vincent St for a George and Marion Dobie Miller having a son James D Miller in 1883, but theses parents were alive by 1911 Census (Marion died 1913, with George as informant to registrar) , so another couple of £s wasted.
We really need the mother's forename to have a chance of further identification ... the death certificate in England may/may not show this.
Aye
John
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Hi John,
My nose (as usual) was bothering me!! ::)
Still, you just never know when these odd certs will come in handy! I love looking through them - so a couple of quid well spent for me.
Hopefully 'Smoothie' will uncover some essentials soon - I'm not too sure about what sort of info is on English certs - thankfully none of my lot ever ventured over the border, but you would think the motrher has to be listed somewhere!!
Anne
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Hi Annie and John,
Thanks so so much for spending your time and money on helping me. I really really appreciate it. You have found out some really interesting information.
Came over to Nan's house and been rooting around in the old photo tins. She believes he was born on 24th April but was unsure of the year. 1883 seems to be correct as he was married in 1911 (Feb) and this is the age on the certificate.
In the census of April 1911 he also writes he is 28. I have been straining with the magnifying glass and in his regiment pictures there is a sign up with his regiments number. It looks like it is 2333, at a push it would be 2383 but I would guess the former (the writing is tiny.) I was thinking about what you said with regards the death certificate. I have the rough date of his death so could apply for a certificate, but I am not sure that it would have the information I am looking for. I have some death certificates for relatives. One from 1988 asks for date and place of birth. One from the 1940s does not. He died in 1937. Just looked at his marriage certificate again and its definitely George for the father but there are no documents with his mothers name on. Apart from birth certificates, I don't think any documents ask for this. I have seen some of my families WW1 records and they ask for your current address and fathers name, neither of which are going to help me. So, loads more clues but nothing which is leading me towards my goal of a birth or census records. Here he is on all the pictures but I can't find out who he really is!
Any ideas?
Martine
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I wouldn't bother too much about his exact age on Census Returns - a year out either way doesn't make too much of a difference. It all depends when in the year he was born - if it was before the date of a Census or after if you see what I mean. (Andy mentioned this in an earlier post)
1901 - 31st March/1st April
1891 - 5th/6th April
1881 - 3rd/4th April
You mentioned that you had found him living with your gt. grandmother on the 1901 Census, aged 27/28, but 2 posts further on, you then said you thought he might still have been in Scotland (having been in the army) so can I ask you to confirm that info please?
Is there any additional information on his Marriage Certificate? I'm not familiar with English certificates at all, and being so used to Scottish ones, which give the names of parents, witnesses etc., I thought there may have been some clues there?
Anne
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for your messsge. Sorry I got mixed up in an earlier post. On the 1911 census he is living with his wife, my g grandmother, Florence Millar (maiden name Walker) in Newcastle. They were married in Feb 1911, him being 28 and her 21. So he left Scotland before Feb 1911, but I don't know when. The wedding certficate gives little clues. Two witness, one is Florence's brother in law and the female witness is called Starkey but we don't know who she was. Florence's father is still alive and his name and occupation are written. I have found his entry on the 1911 census. Jame's father is dead and so 'George Millar deceased' is entered.
So I waited for years for the 1911 census to come out, so I could find out where he was from in Scotland- I did and I am still no further forward!
Thanks
Martine
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Hi Smoothie sorry for not answering sooner. Slamannan is in Falkirk District but not near Grahamston. Haggs is near Dennyloanhead and Banknock and again is not near Grahamston. Grahamston is an area of Falkirk from Grahamston Station to the canal. I am watching your progress when I remember with interest as I have a Robert Millar from this area.
Lemon Nelly. Here is one topic that you and the any kind others can help me with. I looked up the people porn in 1883 called James Millar and there are 23. One was born in SLAMANNAN/STIRLING and the other HAGGS/STIRLING. Should I be expecting to see Grahamston/STIRLING or is Grahamston a district of a place such as HAGGS? Neither is him btw. I don't want to start paying for the Glasgow records until I can clear up the district issue. I can't find any reference to Grahamston.
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To add to the confusion ... There is another Grahamstown in Co. Tyrone Parish Ardstraw. It's been renamed Ballyfolliard, but the main street is still named Grahamstown road.
Lee Graham
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Many years later I am picking up my search again and hoping my old friends on here can help me crack a 100+ year old family mystery! I am searching for a birth record of my great grandfather, James Millar. The 1911 census lists his birth place as Grahamston, Scotland and the 1921 census lists it as Falkirk, Scotland so I suppose this confirms it is Grahamston, Falkirk. However, in 1921 he lists his age as 43 years and 1 month and in 1911 he lists his age as 28. So it's unclear if his year of birth is around 1883 or 1878. His marriage certificate is consistent with the 1911 census year dates but an official search for his birth certificate, many years ago, using this date drew nil results. So, it could be the case that he is a few years older than he said he was on the census and his marriage certificate. On his marriage certificate of 1911 James's farther is listed as 'George Millar deceased.' I don't know his mothers name. My grandmother thought his date of birth was 24 April, but I have no evidence this is correct. Even with this new information I am still not getting any further forward. I would very much appreciate some helping in cracking this mystery!
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I take it that you have checked for James' birth using other spellings, for example Miller?
Also, I know the information on English marriage certificates is sparse compared with Scottish ones, but does it not say what George's occupation was?
Are there any clues in the names of James and Florence's children?