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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: totally leics on Tuesday 23 June 09 21:33 BST (UK)
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Hi folks,
I'm hoping someone might be able to help give some information to kickstart this search, but I've only limited facts to go on so it might be a longshot!
My partner's family come from the Ashington area, but all she knows is that her grandfather was John Robert Redshaw born c1891 and that he was married and living in Pegswood early in the 20th century. The only other fact she has is that he was brought up by his grandparents, but she does not know which village!! ::)
With this limited info I'm far from expecting miracles, but any glimmer of help would be much appreciated. :)
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From freeBMD
Birth
Jul/Aug/Sep 1891
Morpeth Reg District ref 10b 381
John Robert Redshaw
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1901
RG13 4837 219 3
Ulgham
Jane Patten 54 bn Spittel
Archibald son 19 Coal Miner Hewer bn Rudeliffe?
Margaret 17 dtr bn Rudeliffe?
John R Redshaw 9 grandson bn Stobound?
sorry I dont know the area so cant guess the birthplaces with any intelligence! and the writing is dire.
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1891
R12 4260 120 23
Stottswood, Ulgham
Archibald Patton 48 Coal Miner bn Scotland
Jane 41 wife bn Spittal
Robert 20 Coal Miner bn Brookhill
Mary 19 bn Brookhill
Elizabeth J 14 bn Radcliffe (ah thats what it was!)
Archibald 10 bn Radcliffe
Margaret 7 bn radcliffe
Robert mcLoud visitor 21 coal miner bn Spittal
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Marriage
Ap/May/Jun 1891
Morpeth reg distr ref 10b 581
Mary Patten
one of grooms on same page - Adam Redshaw
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I wonder why John was brought up by grandparents.
here are Adam and Mary in 1901
RG13 4838 85 12
Long Rd South radcliffe, Hauxley
Adam Redshaw 32 Coal Miner Hewer bn Alnwick
Mary 29 wife bn Broomhill
Archibold P 8 bn Amble
Jane 5 bn Amble
Margaret 2 bn Amble
Adam 6mths bn Radcliffe
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Hello
1911 census index has
John Robert Redshaw 19 yrs. b. 1892
Morpeth Dist. Northumberland
Sally
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Hi Lizdb, you're a star! Thats quite some info to be getting started on. My partner knows a few of the places you've found; Ulgham,and I think it may be Stobswood and Radcliffe, they are all in that area and not far from where her late mother lived in Lynemouth. Cannot thank you enough. :)
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Hi Sally,
Many thanks, we think that John Robert Redshaw would be the gt grandfather as my partner's grandfather was apparently the eldest child. We think JR the younger moved in with his grandparents because there were subsequently so many younger siblings. :) TL
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Correction to previous message. ::) Sally, that John Redshaw is, as you're probably aware the grandfather. I'm now told Adam Redshaw is the gt grandfather, but the rest stands as true.
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Maybe my own experience of living in a colliery village ( Bebside, near Blyth) might provide a clue why John R Redshaw lived in the home of ( I am avoiding the term "brought up by") his granny.
On 1901 census, column 7 records number of rooms occupied in the house.
The six Redshaws in Long Row South,Radcliffe, had ONE room.
Widow Jane and three others in Stobswood Colliery had TWO rooms. Maybe she could have even taken young Adam in as well !
My cousin as a child in late 1940 was accommodated by a childless aunt. I myself left my crowded family's house to live with my granny . All to do with space.
Michael Dixon
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Thanks Michael,
One of the great things about this type of research is not only tracing family lines, but finding out more about how people lived their lives and how choices are made sometimes through necessities. Having traced some of my own family homes , and knowing how many there were in the family unit I often wonder how they fitted in though I freely admit as far as I know they never needed to cope with just one or two rooms. It all helps make our ancestors far more than just names doesn't it? TL
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I lived in a "miner's cottage" from my birth in 1941 . It really was a hovel, infested with mice, concrete floors, leaking roof, no water (tap 50 yards down back lane), no electricity and an outside "earth closet" also mice infested.
But we had gas and plenty of coal. The house had 2 up 2 down. Parents slept in front room, so front door was never used/opened. We "lived" in the kitchen Upstairs two brothers in one bedroom, widowed grannie and I shared bed in other bedroom ( Oh dear just remembered- me a serial bed-wetter- Sorry Grannie- I think they used a protective sheet made from bits of a barrage balloon lol )
When Bebside pit died in 1953, we were rehoused to modern housing ( two flushing toilets) and old pit village totally demolished.
My brothers and I used to wonder at our father when he used to bemoan the coldness of new estate, wishing to be back in the friendly old place... crazy man.
Michael Dixon
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Michael that is fascinating. :)
I hope they have preserved some of the old miner'c cottages. They are of great historical significance. I know about Beamish, but would like to see a preserved (not renovated) mining village. Do any exist?
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Ruskie,
Well the houses of my birth-colliery were literally demolished. I do not know of any preserved miners homes.
In the 1870s, a reporter of a Newcastle newspaper visited a colliery village every week for nearly two years. Articles called "Our Colliery Villages", painting a picture of mining village life.
First article was on Seghill Colliery... Fred111 posted a recent request for info on Seghill housing.... I am about to post some quotes in reply... you may find the reporters observations and views of interest.
Michael
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(Sorry for going a bit off topic totally leics)
Thanks Michael, yes, I will have a look at the Seghill post. I vaguely remember reading something about reports of the families living in colliery housing - I wonder if it was "Our Colliery Villages" that you mention. It spoke in a fair amount of detail about the lives of the people.
It is a shame that no miner's cottages have been preserved. I imagine it would have been an interesting and educational school trip/tourist drawcard especially if a whole village and mine had also been preserved and tours could be taken (I think there is a mine is Wales? where this is possible).
It's the kind of thing I would love to visit to see how my mining ancestors lived. :)
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( ditto apologies to totally leics)
The Northumberland County Record Office shares a complex that is within the colliery yard of Woodhorn Pit, with stables, wheel house, lamp house etc.
MD
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No apologies needed folks, am finding all this background information equally interesting.
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Hi folks,
I'm looking for a bit more info, but fortunately have more background this time. Have traced Chatham Redshaw (born Elsdon 1833) to Turkshead Yard, Alnwick with his wife Jane (born North Sunderland c1846) and family in 1881. I cannot, however, find his marriage which surprises me given his first name. Also is Turkshead Yard still in existence does anybody know? Any info gratefully received.
TL
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Marriage Registration June Qtr 1861 : Rothbury Reg District ( in which Elsdon lay) Jonathon Redshaw m. Jane Armstrong.
The clue that his name was not Chatham was the fact that he only showed up on one census (1881) as Chatham.
Michael Dixon
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TL, Do you have Chatham in any other censuses?
Reason I ask is that I found the family in 1881 but couldn't see Chatham on the image because I read his first name as Jonathan. :-\
I may be completely wrong here. He is transcribed as Chatham.
Can someone else please have a look - maybe I'm seeing things. ;D
Oh Michael you beat me to it. ;)
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I originally thought that 1861 marriage may have been too early, but it looks like Jane might have been a child bride. ;)
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Thanks Michael and Ruskie,
Sounds like Jane was in domestic service if she was married so young and a fair way north of Sunderland, or maybe I'm just creating my own storyline here! ::)
Wonder how the Chatham bit got in there?Still intrigued by the 1881 address, almost sounds like a pub name. :)
TL
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Someone has mistranscribed the name Jonathan - they obviously thought they saw Chatham. :-\ Can't see it myself ...
Michael might know something about Turkshead Yard. A Google search throws very little up. My guess is that it'll be long gone ...
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TL,
It is a Pub, look higher up the page on C1881. Bondgate was/is one of main streets of Alnwick. The Turks Head was on Bondgate. Turks Head Yard would have been a yard thru to the back of the pub, with a few residences.
Sunderland was in County Durham. Jane was born in North Sunderland, in the county of Northumberland.
I don't understand your logic about "in domestic service". Why not track her through the censuses to see !
Michael
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C1871 has her born a year earlier than the c1881. MD
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hello,
I think the name chatham was just wrongly transcribed. It looks like Jonathan in the 1881 census to me.
the 1871 census Biddlestone,
( RG 10/ 5196) shows
Jonathan and Jane age 26 with children
Andrew 9
ann 4
Adam 3
Eleanor 2
that would make her 17 when her first child was born in 1872, I think.
Sally
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TL,
I rediscovered this site last night and thought you might find something of general interest:
http://www.keystothepast.info/k2p/usp.nsf/pws/Keys+to+the+past+-+Home+Page
Moving on from Michael confirming that the Turkshead was a pub - you can often have an educated guess at where a residence was by looking at the neighbours. You can walk around the neighbourhood looking for streets and other landmarks that may still exist today and compare an old map of the area to a map of today, sometimesyou even get a birds eye view. :)
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I think I was just allowing myself a flight of fancy re the domestic service Michael, it certainly wasn't logic based I fully concede. :)
I seem to have located Jonathan's father Josiah as an unemployed shepherd living with his wife Ann, and again a grandchild ,this time a Sarah T Redshaw. I've got his d.o.b as 28/Sep/1808 at Falstone, but living at Harnham in 1881 which I cannot locate or maybe its getting late and I cannot see for looking. TL ;)
PS thanks for pub info, I'm trying to learn to broaden my methodology of search.
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Hi Ruskie,
Really must thank you for introducing me to that site, I can see myself coming back to it again and again, its very useful and interesting. Have located Harnham, it seems to have been a collection of small settlements between Capheaton and Whalton, probably still is. My lack of geographical knowledge of Northumberland is on a sharp learning curve indeed, as witnessed by my earlier confusion with North Sunderland (though in truth I've been to nearby Seahouses so can offer no real excuse!) Had retired for the night, but couldn't settle without one more try. Glad I did!
Anyway thanks again. :) TL
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TL,
Not sure if you are aware of the excellent online resources available for Durham/Northumberland. To start you off, here is good example of a free one:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05w6/
(Time consuming but it can be worth it if you get lucky)
Give me a shout if you can't find the Turkshead's approximate location. I'll be happy to give you a hand (I like fiddling round with maps). ;D
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There is a picture of the Turk's Head taken in 1964 here - http://tinyurl.com/kngltp
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Thanks for the further information on sites Ruskie, and thanks Jora for the 1960's photo, its always good to have an actual view of whats being discussed.
The further thing that struck me when looking at the 1881 census was the mix of nationalities in the ten or so houses in Turkshead Yard, English, a dozen or so Irish, some Scots and birthplaces for some given as Australia, NJ America and East Indies. The search for my partner's ancestors has certainly proved interesting!
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I live in a miner's cottage in Acomb, built by Morrison Bros for their workers. They were brick built, a row of 15, one large room down and two up with a wooden division and a small lean to pantry at the rear. The netty was at the bottom of the garden discharging into the stream and shared with the house next door. However there was a large iron kitchen range and a fireplace upstairs (no stinting of coal in a colliery village) so they were quite snug, especially as some had families of a dozen in them.
The National Coal Board added a small lean-to to make a tiny kitchen and bathroom either side of the back door. Since a right of way runs between the back doors and the gardens the cottages cannot easily be enlarged in the current fashion, though all but two, mine and the one next door have had the lean-to converted into a narrow two storey rear extension.
I dug up the floor of brick quarrels in mine and replaced the range with a wood burning stove, the last to be refurnished in that way. I guess the museum is now the only place to find cottages without separate kitchens or indoor plumbing.
Peter
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Your house sounds lovely Peter.
I know that it is unacceptable these days to live as our ancestors did, but I really like to see houses kept as near to the original as is practical, with the additonal of a few mod cons of course. ;)
They're part of history and I don't like to see them messed around with too much. I'd like to see examples of homes from all periods in time preserved as museum pieces ... :)
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John Robert Redshaw born 1892 in Stobswood, Northumberland.
Parents are Adam Redshaw born 1867 in Rothbury and died 1918 in Seaton Hirst, Ashington, Northumberland also Mary Patton born 1872 Broomhill, Northumberland and died 1947 Seaton Hirst, Ashington, Northumberland.
Adams parents were Jonathan Redshaw born 1833 in Elsdon, Northumberland and died 1891 in Northumberland. His mother was Jane Brown born 1845 in Elsdon, but I have no death date.
Jonathans parents were Josiah born 1811 and Ann born 1816.
His maternal grandparents were Archibald Patton born 1843 Scotland and died 1892 in the district of Morpeth, Northumberland also Jane Spowart born 1846 in Spittal and died 1908 in the district of Morpeth, Northumberland.
Jane's parents are George Spowart born 1821 Berwick upon Tweed and Mary Adamson born 1822 Spittal. George died before the marriage of his daughter Jane in 1870, but I have been unable to find a death date yet!
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Hi KittyWillow,
Thanks very much for that unexpected, but very welcome wealth of information. Seems that Josiah Redshaw in Falstone might not be the one then judging by the different date of birth. Now we have other family surnames to chase I can see my partner is going to be keen to discover even more of her family's past! :) :)
Totally Leics.
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Please let me know if I can help in anyway on this side of the family as Archibald Patton and Jane Spowart are my great great grandparents also. So your other half and I are distant cousins. All of the information you have been given so far via the forum ties up with what I have found also.
Re Josiah, some of the early census rounded up the date of birth to the nearest 5 years and also they sometimes change things to make the females look younger than the males, I believe. So you have to take some of the information with a pinch of salt. www.familysearch.org/eng is a fantastic free site with exact detail on birth dates etc.
So a few other bits are Archibald Patton born 1843's father is also Archibald Patton born 1815 in Gallowater, Scotland. I think this is actually Gala water and is Midlothian way. He also married a Jane whom I have been told is Jane Wilkenshaw, however I have been unable to find proof of this and that is where the tree has come to a complete stop on that side of the family for me.
George Spowart born 1821's parents are possibly James Spowart, but definitely Elizabeth born 1793 Spittal, Northumberland.
Happy searching.
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Hi totally leics & KittyWillow,
My wife is related to the Redshaws that you have been re-searching, her Grandfather was Sidney Redshaw from the Morpeth area, and we have just begun our own re-search into the family history. We came across this thread by putting the name of Archibald Redshaw (Sydney's brother?) into Google and read with interest your posts.
We'd like to make contact with you both in order to discuss/check our re-search with your own and help with any 'obstacles' we encounter.
Thanks
aj
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Thanks KittyWillow
aj
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Will send you a PM soonest
aj
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Hi aj,
My partner hasn't really got much further in her search at present, but believes that Sidney is her Mum's {Betty } brother. She'd be interested to know if your search has progressed any further. :) TL
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Hi just thought to let you Mary Patton was sister to my 2xGreat Grandmother Lizzie Jane
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probably no help in your search,but my paternal grandfather was arch. patton born 1881, his 1st son was arch. and subsequently his 1st son arch, my cousin and last arch. is alive and well and living in the canaries! cheers! :)