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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: Jane Hollenbeck on Tuesday 23 June 09 15:12 BST (UK)
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I have traced my father's family(Sutherland) on his mother's (Tait)(my grandmother's) side
back to the death cert. of George Macdonald sep 24th 1880, age 85. His mother was Helen Sinclair, married to George Macdonald, a crofter, all from Caithness. Where do I find information for these people?
Jane.
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Hi and Welcome :)
There's a marriage showing for Helen Sinclair and George McDonald on 6 July 1799, Halkirk, Caithness
and a birth showing for a son, George, to them on 28th July 1803, also at Halkirk
This is an IGI extracted record from www.familysearch.org
I wonder if the informant got his age wrong?
In addition to the familysearch site, Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is a good source for Scottish records. It's pay to view but very reasonable. Also, Freereg has quite a number of Caithness records. Also, have a look at this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
Where was he living before his death and, who was he married to? This would help to check for his age on the censuses.
Regards
Gadget
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Thankyou so much for the help. I did get my original information from Scotlands people website. There appear to be at least 3 George Macdonalds in the family. His death in 1880 was in Halkirk...so your info is very promising. He was married to Williamina Macleod who died in 1900, age 84, and she was the daughter of William Macleod (crofter)and Mary Mackay. George and Williamina had a son 'George', he was the informant on their death registrations. They also had a daughter Christina (domestic worker) who married Donald Tait (boot and shoemaker) in 1873 oct 09th. They are the parents of my grandmother, Margaret Campbell Tait.
Thankyou for the links, I will look them up
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Here we are
1871
Harpsdale, Halkirk
37 ED 3 page 6
MacDonald
George, 68 (so born 1803), farmer of 4 acres arable, b. Halkirk
Williamina, 53, b. Sutherlandshire
George, 16, farmer's son, b. Halkirk
Barbara, 12, scholar, b. Halkirk
Gadget
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again...my thanks. I presume this info comes from a census ? would that be the reason their daughter Christina, who would have been 33 at the time, was not listed? She was a domestic worker so I presume lived elsewhere in 1871.
How do I trace the Sinclair line back with some degree of accuracy?
Jane.
p.s... interesting that Williamina was born in Sutherlandshire... Sutherland is my family name and that's where I started this journey from.!
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All the censuses are on SP but it is costly. There are other sites which have indexes - Ancestry for one and the 1841 is on Freecen.
If you want to trace Helen Sinclair's line, you could use the IGI or Scotlands People. For example, if you go to the IGI page on family search and put in the parents names and Area, Country and County only, you should get a list of children to her parents. You could use them to see if there was a naming pattern to identify possble parents. Traditional naming patterns were often used:
1st son - after father's father
2nd son - after mother's father
3rd son - after father
4th son - after father's eldest brother
etc.
Daughters were named similarly but with the first daughter being named for the Mother's mother, etc.
Gadget
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I have just found Helen's death cert. She died january 07 1858 age 80. She is recorded as a widow at the time, her father's name is George Sinclair , a farmer. There is no mother's name.... odd.! Her death was informed by son George Macdonald, and signed with an X.
It also says 'Halkirk churchyard as certified by Francis Sutherland, grave digger' !
Jane.
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I have come accross a marriage registration for George Sinclair in Waidale(?) + Margaret Waiter in Stainland(?) married dec 17th 1783.
Then 2 birth registrations : Helen Sinclair in Weydale born to George by Marg Waiter june 29th 1786, and Donald Sinclair baptised march 29th 1788 son to George by Marg Waiter in Weydale.
I hope this is my Helen Sinclair !!!
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Have you found Helen on the 1851 census - that would give her pace of birth?
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Where do I look that up? is it on Scotlands people?
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ScotlandsPeople and Ancestry (index only) have the 1841-1901 censuses.
On a quick look through, I don't see her in Halkirk. If you can't find her, I'llcheck later but am out this evening.
Gadget
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Hi Jane,
I think this could be your Helen Sinclair on 1851 census.
Burn of Halkirk Macdonald William Head U M 41 Farmer of 8 Acres b Halkirk
Macdonald Hellen Widow F 80 Farmer's mother b Halkirk
Macdonald Iso. sister U F 34 Working on farm b Halkirk
1841 Census Sibster Halkirk
Macdonald Willm. M 30 Labourer b Caithness
Macdonald Helen F 60 b Caithness
Isabella F 20 b Caithness
from IGI children of George McDonald & Helen Sinclair all baptised Halkirk
29 Oct 1800 Christian
28 Jul 1803 George
7 Jan 1806 William
7 Feb 1809 Isobel
30 Jun 1810 John
13 Jul 1815 Isobel
1851 Census Burn of Halkirk
Macdonald George Head M 47 Farmer of 7 Acres b Halkirk Caithness
Macdonald Williamina Wife F 30 b Sutherland
Macdonald Mary Dau F 5 b Halkirk
Macdonald Christy Dau F 3 b Halkirk
Dau F 14w infant unbaptises b Halkirk
1861 Census Halkirk
Macdonald George Head M 50 Carter b Halkirk
Macdonald Williamina Wife F 35 b Sutherland Strathy
Macdonald Christina Dau F 10 Halkirk
Macdonald Johannah Dau F 8 Halkirk
Macdonald George Son M 6 Halkirk
Macdonald Barbara Dau F 2 Houstry
I got them on Freecen
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Kris
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thank-you Kris.
This is such a learning curve ! I have to think it becomes somewhat harder to search back from this point on. Some of the families have quite large numbers of children; thereby creating diversity further on down the line.How does one make connections with other folks whose family history ties back to the same family? And does it make sense at some point in the search to seek a professional geneologist?
Jane.
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Hi Jane,
I would suggest you join Caithness Family History Society, it only costs £10 per year and with all those Caithness names I'm sure you would find family connections.
Kris
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Awesome..... thanks again. I've printed an application. pity they don't do online; I'm in Canada!...hope to make the trip to Caithness next summer when I'm back.
Jane.
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Hi
It's taken me awhile to figure this out, and I would appreciate anyone's help finding a missing link.
From Scotland's People website, I've printed copies of the birth registrations for the children of Helen Sinclair and George Macdonald. married 1799.
The following people are listed as birth/baptism witnesses:-
Margaret McKay,
Janet Sinclair & Margaret McKay,
Christian Henderson,
Donald Bain & Elizabeth Gunn,
George Sinclair &Christian Henderson.
I decided to look for a family connection, so searched out children of George Sinclair & Christian Henderson. Witnesses included Andrew Henderson, William Sinclair & Margaret McKay.
Searched children of William Sinclair & Margaret McKay and witnesses included George Sinclair, Helen Sinclair,Andrew Henderson, Christian Henderson, George Sinclair &Christian Henderson.
Would I be correct to presume a pattern is emerging which somehow connects Helen Sinclair with George Sinclair (& Christian Henderson) , and William Sinclair (& Margaret McKay). And can anyone help me with this?
Jane.
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Hallo, I know this is a long time after your chat about Helen Sinclair and you've probably sorted it all out by now, but I read your discussion, which I now can't find, about the witnesses to her children's births/baptisms. I am descended from George Sinclair and Christian Henderson of Framside, George being a contender for Helen's father. George and Christian were married on 30/10 1781 and had their first child Andrew on 22/9/1782. I am descended from a younger brother John born 28/6/94 who begat William born 1824 by Jean Sinclair. Could Helen be the first born either before the marriage or after, but not registered? Unfortunately I've only just joined the forum and cannot refer back to see if you know Helen's birthdate.
If Helen is George's daughter, strong circumstantial evidence suggests that he was the son of George Sinclair and Elizabeth McKay (she's from Thurso) and had George on 28/2/1761, Henrietta on 21/3/60 and William on 12/4/62. This ties in with the McKay witness.
This is my paternal line and I hope to research back as far as I can go.
Anyway good luck and I hope this is interesting or helpful.
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Thankyou for posting.
I eventually hired a researcher to help me look into this as the circumstantial evidence became overwhelming.
You are welcome to contact me privately.
Jane.
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I know no way of contacting you privately. It would be nice if I could confirm my guess re the parents of George.
Piero
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An update for anyone else researching the Framside Sinclair line. About a year ago I came accross evidence that George Sinclair and Christian Henderson had another son whose birth does not appear to have been registered.
Neil Sinclair"s death record of 1871 in Halkirk names parents(deceased) George Sinclair and Christian Sinclair m/s Henderson.
Jane.