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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Completed Lookups => Topic started by: gcbidlake on Monday 22 June 09 23:48 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for information on the family of Byron and Josephine Atkinson who were in the 1891 Census of Flimby. Byran died at James Place and the funeral was St. Nicholas Church. Where might I find the dates of death for Josephine and Bryan. Two sons James and Richard died during in WWI. I am descended from their daughter Susannah who married James Greggains and moved to Canada in 1911.
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Hi gcbidlake and welcome to rootschat.
Was Byron born in Bingley in Yorkshire in 1863 to parents Thomas and Susanna?
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Hi
Could you just clarify whether he was Byron, Byran or Bryan as your post shows all 3 spellings
Byron and Josephine Atkinson who were in the 1891 Census of Flimby
What were their birthyears and birthplaces as I cannot find an 1891 entry or marriage. There is a Byron Atkinson marriage to Clara Lowe in 1887 but in Yorkshire - not Cumberland
What year did Byron/Bryan die?
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Carole, I found one Byron Atkinson in 1891 but looks like he is married to Clara. This is the same one I mentioned above with parents Thomas and Susanna, so looks like not the right one.
(oops, just saw your post)
I think we need that confirmation of Bryan,Byron,Byran ... :-\
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Carole, he's Bryan on the 1891 - born Liverpool, living Flimby with Josephina ...
Josephina is born Scotland ... so their marraige may be there. Do you have details of their marriage gcbidlake?
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I have just found them on the 1891 - Josephina and BRYAN - children born in various areas of Cumberland
Bryan Atkinson 38 b Liverpool
Josephina 33 b Scotland
Thomas 15
Catherine 12
Mary J 6
Agnes 3
James 1
RG12 Piece 4308 Folio 100 Page 65
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Deaths
Josephina Atkinson aged 41 December qtr 1896
Cockermouth Volume: 10b Page: 386
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Bryan was still alive and living in Flimby in 1901
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Deaths June qtr 1928
Bryan Atkinson aged 75 Cockermouth 10b 704
To find their exact dates of death you would need to buy copies of both death certs using the references shown against the entries above
You can order online at www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
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Carole, in 1891, son Thomas appears to have the surname Irving though he is named as son of Bryan. Do you think he may have been illegitimate? I originally thought that Irving may be his middle name but I'm not sure it is.
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Yep, it's on freebmd Bryan Atkinson married Josephina/e Irving.
Dec 1878
Cockermouth
10b 851
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Births Sept 1852
Atkinson Bryan
Liverpool
8b 12
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1901 for Flimby - all children b Flimby except Catherine
Bryan Atkinson 47 b Liverpool widower - coke drawer
Catherine 22 Forest Rd Cumberland
James 11
Richard 6
Josephina 1 g/dtr
RG13 Piece 4886 Folio 89 Page 7
I am descended from their daughter Susannah who married James Greggains and moved to Canada in 1911.
Was Susannah born before Thomas
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Scotland's People appears to have the birth of a Josephin* Irving in the right time frame, but you will need to purchase credits to view this record.
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1881 census - Odd about the Irving bit as there is a Josephina Irving b 1856 Scotland unmarried working as a servant in Cumberland and a Bryan Atkinson b 1851 Liverpool married working as a servant in Millom
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Found Thomas and Catherine in 1881 indexed as Irving living with grandmother Agnes Irving in Cumberland
There are also 9yr old twins George & Richard Irving both b Scotland also with Agnes
No sign of a Susannah Irving or Atkinson
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1861
Mosser Mains
Mosser
Cumberland
James Atkinson head mar 48 ag lab b Cumberland Bostel(?)
Susannah wife 33 b Cumberland Stableton
Bryan son 8 Lancs L'pool
Jane daur 6 do
Ellen daur 5 Cumberland Mosser
john son 2
Elizabeth daur 7 mo do
RG9/3934/85/4
So looks like your Bryan's parents are James and Susannah. You can trace their movements via the children's birth places. ;)
Umm Carole - that 1881 is interesting ...
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Marriages June qtr 1905 Wigton 10B 1107
Susannah Atkinson
James Greggains
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If Susannah was b 1883 Westward Cumberland - she may be the one with Henry & Susannah Holmes in 1891 - shown as niece
The Greggains were still in Wigton in 1911
James b 1879
Susannah b 1883
Josephine 1906
Martha 1910
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1861
Hollee Village
Kirkpatrick Fleming
Dumfriesshire
Richard Irving 36 b Dornock miller
Agnes wife 43 b Annan
Jane 12 b Dornock
Isabella 10 Dornock
Agnes 10 (twins?) Dornock
Margaret 8 Dornock
Josephina 4 b K. Fleming
Mary 6 mo K Fleming
(all Dumfriesshire)
Josephina's parents appear to be Richard and Agnes.
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Bit disappinting he's not with parents:
1841
Outhouse
Dornock
John Charlton 25 Miller J
Richard Irving 15 Miller ap
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A submitted record on the IGI gives this marriage:
Richard Irving and Agnes Bell
12 Dec 1845
Annan
There are a couple of other Richard/Agnes marriages in the right time frame in Dumfriesshire, but this is the only one in Annan. However further investigation is required. :)
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Back to James and Susannah ...
Does this make sense?
1851
Hornley St
6 House
Liverpool
James Atkinson head wid 38 railway lab b Cumberland
Susana Rowel sister in law unmar 24 house servt b Cumberland
Sarah Albert visitor unmar 20 dressmaker b Worcestershire
HO107/2177/445/21
???
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I wonder if this is the same James in 1841? Note the first name, most likely his father.
1841
How (?)
Blind Bothel
Cumberland
Bryan Atkinson 59 farmer Y
Jane Atkinson 60 Y
James 25 ag lab
Hannah Carlisle 20 FS Y
John Atkinson 15 MS Y
HO107/155/4/2
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And a possible marriage for Bryan and Jane (note surname of this Jane):
(IGI extracted)
Brian Atkinson = Jane Carlisle
2 Jun 1805
Brigham
Cumberland
Fits in nicely but obviously will need checking and backing up with purchase of certificates etc.
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:) Thank you all very much for all the great input, especially since I started you out confused with the multiple mis-spellings of Bryan! What a great treat to wake up this morning with all of this new information and leads to process. I will have to put all together to see where to go next. James and Susannah went on to have nine children and the family will be having a reunion in Saskatchewan in August of 2010 with over 120 expected to attend. They will be very pleased to learn of the new generations that you've added to their family tree.
What does "IGI extracted" mean?
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Could Susannah b. ca. 1828-1830, been married three times? In 1861 she and James Atkinson were the parents of Bryan. In 1881 Bryan is the son of John and Susannah ?elton (what is that first letter?) and in 1891 Bryan's daughter Susannah is living with Henry and Susannah Holmes.
Also where was 5 year old Ben Atkinson living in 1901?
Who was the mother of Josephina b.ca. 1900?
Sorry to be a pest but you all have been so helpful it just leads to more questions.
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In 1881 Bryan is the son of John and Susannah ?elton (what is that first letter?)
No, in 1881 Bryan was a Ser(vant) to the SKELTONs.
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Perfect, thank you for the proper interpretation. That makes more sense.
Ruskie, in your answer re the 1841 census:
what do the letters Y, FS and MS mean?
and
you mentioned Scotland's People earlier and getting a credit. What is the link for that?
CaroleW, in your 1901 reference you had Forest Road after Catherine's name, was that their residence?
Thank you again for all of your help. This is being most interesting :)
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That makes more sense.
Ruskie, in your answer re the 1841 census:
what do the letters Y, FS and MS mean?
The abbreviaions used in the 1841 census are given here - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~somtcen/1841instructions.html
Much more fun to check it yourself ;)
1901 actually had Forest Hd - Forest Head (her birthplace) - see http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CUL/Farlam/Bulmer1884.html
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>:(
I'd just finished answering all your questions and lost the lot .... >:(
Thanks for helping Geoff.
Good free sites include:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ (all records not complete for all areas)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bq/ (this is the IGI) (not complete. Submitted records need to be treated with caution but extracted records are usually accurate)
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ (Scotland's People) (You need to register and purchase a minimum number of credits)
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Ruskie, Thank you again. Your leads have been most helpful and assistance much appreciated. Too bad you lost your previous answers, I am now curious as to what they were. The response to my query has encouraged me to file another query on James Greggains. Have a great day :)
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(I just lost a longer version of my previous post - partially answered by Geoff).
Forgot to mention that IGI extracted records have been taken from the parish records so should be accurate, whereas submitted records are sometimes just a guess by a member of the LDS Church and may or may not be accurate.
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Ruskie, good to know, thanks. Do you think that I will getting any more hits on this query or should I close it? The person in charge of the site sent an e-mail concerning closing sites when one is completed. Is there an index of surnames in closed queries?
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If you think your original question has been answered (ie deaths of Bryan and Josephine) then you can modify and add "completed" to your heading. I believe that anyone googling your Atkinson names will still be able to find this post and reply to it or contact you. I don't think there is an index of names.
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Have come late to this site whilst researchings GREGGANS family from Liverpool, England. Have established link with James Greggains as follows:-
James Greggains, born Brigham 1879? His father James Greggains, born 1833 in Broughton, near Cockermouth. That James was one of 9 children born to William and Jane Greggains.
The oldest of William and Janes children was John Greggains. John had 4 children one of whom, Joseph , moved to Liverpool. Joseph is my Great Grandfather, but the name has been corrupted to Greggans. There are a large number of Greggans in the Liverpool area.
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Good afternoon cousin, Great to hear from you!!
There is a Greggains Family Reunion in Saskatchewan this August. Any chance you might be able to attend? I'd love to catch up on your Greggains research. You can e-mail me at gcbidlake@yahoo.ca
George