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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: harrovian on Sunday 21 June 09 12:34 BST (UK)
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Rarely have i found anything as challenging as trying to articulate my query so apologies now if no one understands it only me & thanks for any input that may follow!
ok got the roots bug recently & found Scotland people site & made some progress on the McKillop side of my tree, most seemed to be registered in Lanarkshire ok so happy days on that front but when i got my Great grandfathers details on the Kennedy side the trail stops past knowing his mother & fathers names that were listed on his marriage cert. I haven't been able to trace a birth cert for him or a death cert (there was a war record that possibly could have been him but he had a son in 1919 but death yr shows 1918 that said his wife could have been with child before he left for France ww1?? & given birth in 1919?) i literally trawled through 3 pages of Joseph kennedy knowing he was born 1885 i eliminated down to 4. three were defo not him as 2 were single & 1 was a priest which only left service record. His parents are listed as John Alexander & Elizabeth Kennedy (mn Maxwell) neither can i find any certs for them. If it were anyone else i might have suggested that his parents maybe hailed from Ireland but My nan was a staunch Scottish Protestant who ostracized my father because he married my mum an Irish catholic so i doubt this very much as it would have been known?
One other thing i noticed was that the children on my McKillop side seem to have taken their mothers maiden name which is listed before their surname. What was the rule of the thumb for this as there seemed to be one exception A Mary Marshall McKillop seemed to have her paternal grandmothers maiden name. My ggf name was Joseph Morrison Kennedy yet his mothers maiden name was Elizabeth Maxwell. he was married to Mary Marshall McKillop on the 4/9/09 in Dalziel
Can anyone suggest where i need to go from here? as i've hit a brick wall. cheers
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The IGI shows only one child of John Alexander Kennedy and Elizabeth Maxwell - Mary Annie Kennedy, b. 1888 Newtowncrommelan, Antrim, Ireland. This is a recently submitted record so is probably worth following up.
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Thanks Isabel for your response. But what is IGI??? do you think Elizabeth was married previously maybe to a Morrison? still not quite sure how or where to follow this up.
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Have you checked this marriage record on SP
1920 KENNEDY JOSEPH MORRISON AND LOCKHART ELIZABETH HART at LARKHALL /LANARK
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The International Genealogical Index is on the Familysearch website or on microfiche in libraries, and was created by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) who collect such information as part of their religious observances. It is just what it says, an index, but is useful for finding where to look. You can find it here:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Some of the records have been filmed or transcribed from actual church registers, others have been submitted by LDS members researching their ancestors. It is wise to check the information for yourself.
As for the middle names, they are often, but by no means always, family names. They may be the mother's or grandmother's maiden name, but they could also be that of a family friend/minister/midwife etc. Sometimes too illegitimate children were given the father's name as a middle name.
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John Alexander Kennedy and Lizzie were originally from co Antrim and moved to Larkhall in the early 1900's they had a a lot of children - I have a list if interested. Joseph Morrison was their son. There was also another Joseph Morrison born to Andrew Kyle Kennedy - John's brother. John and Andrews father was James Kennedy and Mary Kyle. This thread is so out of date I don't expect a response.
Regards
Andrew Kennedy
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I just found this thread... we're trying to find out more about the Kennedy side of our family tree, but keep hitting brick walls, or thousands of pages on the internet! I saw this thread with the names of James Kennedy and Mary Kyle. These people would be my 3rd great grandfather & grandmother. The relation to me is:
James Kennedy & Mary Kyle
> their son John Alexander Kennedy married Elizabeth Maxwell
> their daughter Elizabeth Jane Kennedy married David Kelly
> their son David Kelly married Phyllis Unger
> their son David Kelly is my Dad
We've also been trying to find more information on David Kelly's parents of Robert Kelly & Mary Jane Swann.
Any relation??
Thanks,
Laura
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James and Mary had daughters Matilda and Mary Jane. Sons were James, Andrew Kyle and John Alexander. John Alexander married elizabeth maxwell, they had the following children
Elizabeth Jane (your relative)
James
Madge (married a Turkington in New Zealand)
Joeseph Morrison (Detroit)
John Maxwell (b and d in 1886)
Mary Anne (Married an Anderson, Larkhall)
John Maxwell (b 1889 d in New Zealand in a mining accident)
Matilda
Hugh Bradshaw (d in New Zealand)
Crawford Alexander Dunseth (my grandfather)
William Andrew (d 1914 in Newton Crommelin - the family home)
Gordon
Frederick Walter
Hellen Louise (d 1904 age 2)
They all lived in Newton Cromellin N. Ireland until either married and left or moved with their parents to Scotland. I went to Newton Cromellin to visit the graveyard and 2 of the family are burried there.
I'll try and pull together some of the other things I have if you are interested. I would also like to get information on the family from Elizabeth and David Kelly - I have their children but no dates or further family members
Regards
Andrew Kennedy
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I'm having difficulty withn this site. Timing out (I'm slow). File too large...
I'm David Kelly, as was my father and grandfather...surely the David Kelly in your post. Elizabeth Jane was my grandmother.
Are you an historian or a relative Kennedy?
"Canuckmom" is one of my daughters. See her Profile to acces our website.
Photo is John Alexander Kennedy, Elizabeth Maxwell, Grandpa David Kelly and Grandma Elizabeth Jane, the seeven brothers and a sister. My Dad is at the far right.
If you are a son of Fred Walter Kennedy, we may have met.
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What a fantastic photo! Somthing I never expected to turn up. I've been researching the family tree for about the last 10 years. I started a few years after my father James Anderson Kennedy died. I have a letter from Frederisck Walter dated Aug 1985, in it he gives some information about his brothers and sisters, one of which would have been Elizabeth Jane Kennedy - definitely your grandmother. Crawford alexander dunseth (my grandfather) would have been her younger brother. He went on to have 5 sons and 2 daughters, one of which was my father. Most of the others stayed in Scotland, recently however most have passed away and I only have one uncle (Bob) remaining. The original James Kennedy was suppoedly from Scotland and married Mary Kyle to settle in co Antrim. All of the remaining family as far as I can tell moved away between the 1890's to 1910 ish. John Alexanders brother Andrew Kyle eventaully moved to Larhall in Scotland to follow quite a few other family members. John Alexander and Elizabeth Maxwell had moved with the remainder of the family after about 1903/4. Mining in Antrim had just about dried up by then, which is why one of the brothers moved to N Zealand only to die in a mining accident. My grandfather grew up and had most of his family in Larkhall. John Alexander died in 1926 - I have his death certificate. He is burried with his wif somewhere in Larkhall cemetary only we couldn't find it when we went looking. I am enclosing a document which shouldn't need any explanation. I'll try and dig out other informatino if you are interested and at some point try and give you my entire database of family history.
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Just for the record the minister was William Johnston Gilmore (1842-1933)- my great-grandmother's cousin.
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Wow!
My daughter has alerted the clan of your presence via our family reunion website. I have 345 entries on our family tree (of which 27 are Kennedys), and my daughter has merged other branches so her version is larger.
Please visit http://members.shaw.ca/kellyfamilyreunion/index.htm
It directly lists the decendents of Robert Kelly and Mary Jane Swann. The larger tree is on Ancestry.ca, but I haven't looked at that external file yet.
What continent are you on?
Margaret & I live in Courtenay, B.C. Canada, and I'm 67.
I have letters and addresses from family members on several continents.
Exciting stuff!
This time I did spell check!
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It may take a while to prepare a few documents and get everything together, I'll try and do this over the next week. I have alerted my cousin Gillan in Scotland who now has a copy of the photo. He will try and get my uncle Bob (Robert Kennedy) to identify Crawford from the picture you sent me.
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Sorry forgot to mention I live in Gloucester (UK). All of the Scottish clan live near Beith in Scotland, some are still in Larkhall. All of my immediate family live in Devon where my father was stationed after the war.
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Hi Andrew,
One of my first cousins, John Miller, and his wife Shirley, will be visiting Scotland this summer from the end of July to near the end of August. They have an itinerary and will be looking for the sites of our ancestors.
John is the youngest son of Maisie (Mary Jane Swann Kelly), the only daughter and eldest of Elizabeth Jane.
I have included this site for their interest, and perhaps they will add to this chat and you might direct them to additional sources, especially to living relatives in Larkhall and Westport.
Cheers,
Dave Kelly
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From handwritten note of Frederic Walter Kennedy (1899 to ?), original with photocopy of Culzean Castle: (Note F.W. Kennedy died in 1972)
“This is the Castle where my Grandfather was born, after Grandmother died he lived with my Father John & Mother Elizabeth: this is the story he told Mother. Big James, Grandpa, had six sisters all older than he was, they abused him continually as he was heir to the estates; at 14 fourteen years he ran away from home and went to Northern Ireland near Ballymena. (sic) at age twenty one he returned to his parents home Culzean Castle to claim his estates. Three brothers-in-law met him, the three other brother-in-laws had met sudden deaths, the last one, one week previously, was found with a knife in his back in the sands of Ayr.(sic) asked him if he would like the same treatment he said No. Told to get out and never return. He got out and never returned. He married Mary Kyle a very tall red haired girl. Big James was 6’2”, they were a very distinguished couple. They had three sons Hugh, John, my Dad and Andrew. Hugh died age 23 from some sickness unknown. My Dad lived 73 years passed on in 1926. Big James, Grandpa, died age 83, I do not know the year but guess it was 1900. Nine years before I was born. Later reading the History of the Kennedy Clan I find mention of the six sisters. It stated one was left in near poverty at the sudden death of her husband. One of the sisters...
I still try to research the records of the Kennedys, but in the takeover of the estates by the usurpers the history seems to fade away.
The Kennedy Clan was one of, if not the most powerful of all the Clans until after the 1800 era. The book I have all testify to these facts...
Sir James Ferguson, the Kennedy historian..
Kennedy (the son of Kenneth) sometimes written Kennedis around the years 1005, 1004....became prominent in the year 1263 when they fought for Alexander III at the Battle of Largs but the Kennedys were prominent in 1243. At one time all the males of the Kennedys were killed in battle except two men. The Gaelic pronunciation of Kennedy was Caenaideach. Ken a day ugh.
Frederic Walter Kennedy 1899 to ?
(Note other research indicates “Big james” Kennedy was born in 1807 and died in 1890).
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I have a different middle name listed for Joseph Kennedy. I have it listed as "Maxwell" rather than "Morrison". I need to review which relative gave me this information. Anyway, this Joseph Kennedy, son of John Alexander Kennedy(b 1853, Ireland; d 1926 Scotland) and Elizabeth Maxwell (b 1853 Newtown Cromelin, County Antrim, Ireland, d ?), was born in 1885 and died in 1960 in Detroit, Michigan.
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My research has come up with a death in August 1900 in Parkmore for big James, he was living with his son Andrew Kyle at the time (I understand). Parkmore was an established mining area in Antrim. Not had time to get all my research into a new package so I can send it to you. I'll try and get it done before I leave for my holiday.
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Elizabeth Maxwell Kennedy died in 1920 in Larkhall. Joseph Morrison was born 15th Nov 1884 and as you say died in Michegan in 1960. The first John Maxwell Kennedy was born and died in 1886. The second child with the same name was born in1889 ( he was actually the next male to be born, so guessing he was named after the one that died, which seems to be a thing in the family). Unfortunately he died in 1915 in New Zealand, so the name was a bit ill fated. My grandfather Crawford named one of his children Maxwell, I guess using the middle name. I'm Andrew Crawford - so have my grandfathers first name as my middle name. Not sure that my father would have known about Andrew Kyle for me to be called after him. My son is the latest in the line of James Kennedys, named after my father.
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By the way for John Miller, and his wife Shirley - there are still family in Larkhall but I have not been able to trace them as yet. I've been to the churchyard and found a number of graves and made a note of them but not pieced together where they might fit in the family tree. I have an uncle Robert, grandson to John Alexander (and remembers him very well in his top hat!) in Kilbirnie who lost his wife earlier this year and is now very frail. I also have a number of cousins in Kilbirnie and Beith. I've traced the original family back to somewhere near Maybole. Culzean castle (a must see) is the ancestral home of the Kennedy clan, right on the coast near Maybole. There is a place in the southern part of Scotland called Kennedy castle - but I've not found any ties with the area and there doesn't seem to be much there.
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Hi AndrewKen,
Cousin John & Shirley Miller have returned from their adventure in Scotland, but I have not yet caught up on the details. I found out that the Miller side of the family came from Beith and have relatives still living there.
We had a Kelly_Miller family reunion August 25th-27th at Fintry Provincial Park, B.C. If the attachment works, you will see a scanned copy of the original marriage certificate of my Grandparents David Kelly and Elizabeth Jane Kennedy, matching the document you posted this spring.
My daughter (CanuckMom) is developing a family website http://kellyconnections.webplus.net/ which you may find of interest, and for which we look for contributions. The question is of course how much should be publicly accessible, and how much should be securely private. Public increases the likelihood of getting some fresh new information.
My premier search is for information on the burial place of my Grandfather, David Kelly, who died in Larkhall in 1926. Our family has not been able to trace anything. He was a WW1 veteran, apparently in the Army or the early Army Air Corp. Grandma came to Canada in 1929 with a land grant under the Veterans' Settlement Act. Relevant WW1 records were probably transferred to London and lost during WW2 devestations.
Hope we get to the U.K. in the next year or two to make our own search!!!!
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Thanks for that. I have been to the cemetary in Larkhall looking for James Alexander and any other relatives. I didn't have much success, but will hopefully be trying again during the next year. Apologies, i still haven't updated the family tree, I now have the software so thats stage 1! I will be in touch when i have any news.
Regards
Andrew Kennedy
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Finally managed to update the family tree! Hopefully with most of the basic Kelly info as well. I've tried to put on the most recent births/deaths on the Kennedy side. Let me know if you have any trouble in reading the file - it's GED format, there are others i can export it to.
Happy Christmas to you all.
Regards
Andrew Kennedy
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This is a test.
My replies on this subject do not get sent.
I just finished successfully replying and posting to a different forum page on rootschat.
Results?
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Thank you for the Gedcom which I merged on Family Tree Maker 2011.
This is my fifth reply to your Dec. 18 posting, previously with Merry Christmas wishes. I'll see if this posts before sending again, as one of my replies was my first attempt at using PMessage.
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@Andrewken. Do you have this photo? It is John Alexander Kennedy and Elizabeth (Maxwell), my great grandparents.
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Here's a link to a new thread on ANTRIM board for this Kennedy family-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=585233.new#new
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Evening ..
I know this thread is rather old, but I feel I also have a link to the Kennedy family of Newtown Crommelin Ballymena..
My ggrandfathers brother Herbert Charlton Woodbridge ,married Margaret Maxwell Kennedy in 1917 in New Zealand. After searching NZ newspapers I found a article, when Herbert and Margaret celebrate their 50 wedding anniversary, and it stated that Margaret was from Newtown Crommlin ( although this name was badly spelt in the article).
After much searching I have found Margarets birth notice, as Maggie Maxwell Kennedy, 1882, Ballymena, tracked the family thru the 1901 and 1911 census, and found that she had siblings with the names mentioned in the other posts.
(Although I do beleive that a Madge Kennedy is mentioned and I am pretty sure she is not a member of th family ??, but not certain.. )
Would love to hear from others researching this family ...
Cheers
Karen of Brisbane
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I think you are correct that the "Madge Kennedy" on this Joseph Morrison Kennedy tree is from a different family. This Madge, (1883, Newtown-Crommelin) -1945, Wellington, NZ) married George Turkington of Wellington, NZ, and had three sons. She was my "great-aunt". They were entries in my father's address book, but we never met.
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So are you saying your Madge Kennedy does not have John Alexander Kennedy and Elizabeth Maxwell as her parents ..
.. as I matched every name (I had found on 1901 and 1911 census, and also from Ancestry site) to a birth on famlysearch site, only no 'Madge' and also found Maggie Maxwell Kennedy to fit my info already gathered
Sorry if I appear a bit confused ??? ???
Cheers
Karen
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This is quite strange as even though you seem to have matched a lot of names there are slight differences of dates of birth (1 year is not enough to be concerned about though). However her marriage of 50 years is tricky as I have her death as 1960 (with the wedding in 1917 is only 43 years) and also have her married to George Turknington, although again it would not have been uncommon for a remarriage.
Andrew Kennedy
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So very Sorry, I shd have said 25 years (silver wedding anniversary) .. which I think adds up...
.. and have Margaret Maxwell Woodbridge death of 1944 from NZ BDM website
.. is there a birth entry anywhere for a "Madge"
.. I noticed that the birth entries on 'familysearch' and the names used on other trees are somewhat different .. eg Lizzie, ( there is a Ancestry entry for Lizzie with Hohn Alexander Kennedy and Lizzie Maxwell Kennedy as parents) for Elizabeth Jane
Karen
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There is only 1 John Alexander Kennedy in Newton Crommelin and the only Kennedys in that small village were from the same extended family, so would have had James Kennedy (John A's father) as the head of the family at that time. Highly likely that the Madge is the same one - I may have her death date as incorrect. But still have George Turkington as a husband, but not sure the source of that information.
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Madge can also be short for Margaret/Maggie. Elizabeth is often shortened to Lizzie, so you will see different variants around depending on where the information came from. Another relative was known as Minnie - but had the name Mary Anne.
Regards
Andrew
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Hi Karen (re your reply 29 today);
I am duplicating my earlier posting that somehow disappeared.
The Madge Kennedy (1883-1945) on my family tree is indeed adaughter of John Alexander Kennedy (1853-1926) and Elizabeth Maxwell.
Her siblings were Elizabeth Jane (b.10 Nov 1879-d.31 Oct 1953 in Victoria, B.C., Canada....my Grandmother); Joseph Morrison (b.15 Nov 1884-d.19 Mar 1961 in Detroit, Michigan); Max (b-d 1887 at birth);John Maxwell (b.25 Jan 1889-d.13 Aug 1915 in Westport New Zealand coal mining accident);Hugh Bradshaw (b. 28 Jun 1892-d.1964 in Auckland New Zealand); Crawford D. (b.22 Nov 1929 - d.1971 in Beith, Scotland); William Alexander(26 Nov 1895 - d.Jan 1914 in Newtown Crommelin); Gordon Maxwell (b.1897), Frederic Walter(b.1899); Helen Louise (May 1902-d.20 Feb 1904 Scarlet Fever); Matilda(b.19 Nov 1890); Mary Anne (b.24Jun 1887 - d.1965 in Larkhall, Scotland); James (b.21 Jul 1881 - d.1972 in Larkhall, Scotland). Whew!
I can't find my source of who Madge married (George Turkington or your Herbert Charlton Woodbridge), but it was in New Zealand.
I also wish to determine which of my relatives currently reside in Australia....I know they are there! My letter from Mattie Kennedy says so (eg "wife of Scott Kennedy". Also some with surname "Bunckenburg" in still in New Zealand.
Anything you might know to distinguish Turkington from Woodbridge would be helpful!
Cheers,
Dave Kelly
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Aftermoon..
after searching the New ZealandBDM website I found the following
Matilda Kennedy marries George Turkington .. 1917
Margaret Maxwell Kennedy marries Herbert harlton Woodbridge .. 1917
.. then after searching the New Zealand electoral roll further
.. 1919 to 1946 .. at various addresses around Wellington
George Turkington - railway clerk
Matilda Turkington - married
.. in 1946 several other Turkington names appear, including a Keith Kennedy Turkington at same address as George and Matilda
.. in 1949 a Gordon Maxwell Turkington appears at same address as George and Matilda
.. by 1969 George and Matilda appear together at same address for last time
.. 1972 to 1981 .. Matilda is listed as a widow
This is as far as the Electoral records go.
I have Margaret Maxwell Woodbridge , nee Kennedy at a different addres from 1919 to 1944 to her death .
So maybe Margaret and Matilda are sisters .. ???
I cannot find any info on when either girl arrive in NZ..
All 'food for thought ..
Cheers
Karen
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I have found this entry:
Matilda KENNEDY, 22, domestic, arrived in Wellington NZ, left London on 13 Nov. 1913 on the 'Mamari'.
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Hi again,
You work fast!
You are on to something.
I have Madge Kennedy born 1883 in Newtown Crommelin, deceased 1945 in Wellington New Zealand. She is likely your Margaret Maxwell Kennedy.
Her sister, Matilda Kennedy was born 19 Nov. 1890 in Newtown Crommelin. I had no place or date of death.
So likely the sisters both emigrated to New Zealand. I must correct the marriage of George Turkington to be with Matilda, not Madge! As cousin Andrew points out, the common names easily obscure which of several birth names they might be associated with.
Thank you, and Cheers,
Dave in Courtenay, B.C.
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I had the wrong husband for madge as well. Matilda is the sister of madge and through your findings I can now correct both of their husbands . I have matilda dying in NZ near Wellington in January 1985 aged 95, which seems to fit OK with the information you have.
The 2 sisters had 2 brothers that I know of out in NZ. A Hugh Bradshaw Kennedy born 28 June 1892 died in Auckland in 1964 and John Maxwell Kennedy who died in the 1915 Wesport mining accident. He was born on 25 Jan 1889. I don't know whether you have any information on them?
Regards
Andrew
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So with a bit more digging I have found the following on ...
Hugh Kennedy arrived in NZ ,25 Mar 1927, bc 1894age 33 ,single, a miner. Departed from Southhampton UK for Auckland, on board the MATAROA..On actual passenger list it gives his address as WESTPIONT, MACKLAN AVE, LARKHALL
Electoral Rolls for 1928 listed at 92 Maida Vale Rd Wellington NZ- labourer ( .. this also is the same address as Herbert Charlton Woodbridge and Margaret Maxwell Woodbridge , in the 1928 electoral rolls of NZ)
From NZ BDM website
Hugh Bradshaw Kennedy marries Mary Butterworth in 1930 in NZ
1935 to 1957 .. Mary and Hugh appear on electoral rolls s, also on 1957 roll a Lindsay Kennedy is at same address as Hugh and Mary . After 1957 Hugh no longer appears on electoral rolls. Have been unable find any other deaths for this pair.
I am about to enter most of this info onto my Ancestry tree ( which is private) so I will see if there are any other hits .
Dave .. could I please attach the photo of John Alexander and Elizabeth Kenndy to my site, I will refer to your name as permission given ??
Thank you all for your help
Let me know if any more info required
Cheers
Karen :D :D
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Unfortunately I don't know how to find your site.
However, if you have forgotten the easy alternative, just go back to Reply #25 on this forum, hit your "print screen" key, and then after opening whatever photo app. you have (or MS Paint), hit "control V". Voila...the photo.
Just save to the folder/file of your choice and then crop/edit as desired.
Should do the trick!
Cheers,
Dave
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Hi Dave
I have just looked closely at the marriage document that you posted in April last year .. did you notice who was the witness for Elizabeth Jane and David .. none other than a Margaret M Kennedy...
Karen
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Thanks you for all the information. Hugh looks as if he joined the sisters much later. His address in the UK is completely consistent with the family. John Alexander and Elizabeth moved to Larkhall with their remaining family, sometime after 1911, but before 1920. He obviously kept in touch with the sisters and moved there for a better life. The whole family moved out of Northern Ireland in the late 1800's/early 1900's originally because of the closure of the mines. My grandfather Crawford, one of Hugh and Madges brothers, became a cobbler.
Regards
Andrew
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Hi again Karen!
You have been helpful in the extreme.
Your yesterday's post gave data on Hugh Kennedy arriving in NZ aboard the MATAROA, and listing his leaving "Westiont, Macklin Ave, Larkhall".
The street name triggered a memory. I had visited James and Martha (Scott) Kennedy in 1961. I had a grainy 8mm movie of them I took at that time. I gave Andrew Kennedy a brief digitized clip of my longer movie some months ago. I matched up my movie with Google Earth Street View. The nearby Post office and all the oldest buildings matched my movie without question.
The Kennedys lived at 128 Machan Road, Larkhall ML9 1 UK. The believe the other word in Hugh's address is "Westport". That is the place my Dad had written on a family photo taken "late 1917 or early 1918"!
Incidently, James Kennedy bought that house from his sister (Elizabeth Jane), my Grandmother Kelly, when she left for Alberta, Canada in 1929 with my Dad, his six brothers and a sister.
Thank you again!
Hope you copied that Kennedy photo OK, and use that technique for others too!
Cheers,
Dave In Courtenay
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Here are a couple of inscriptions from the Ballymena Borough Gravestone Series:9. Called "Inscriptions in Newtowncrommelin Presbyterian Burying Ground transcribed (May 2000) by Willim J Davidson". ISBN 1-873242-20-4. I understand now out of print.
May be useful to someone.
Copyright information removed
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In terms of the Kennedy grave references, other than reference 31, I don't think the rest are direct family. The gravestone erected by John and Lizzie is in the presbyterian church graveyard in Newton Cromellin. I visited it about 10 years ago and also the pub in the village and asked if there were any Kennedys still there, but was told there hadn't been for some time.
Andrew