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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: meowkat on Friday 19 June 09 22:32 BST (UK)
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My ancestors came from County Down, I don't know where thought and so far I haven't been able to trace them before they arrived in Scotland.
I do have some dates for them, hopefully somewhere there will be a record of them. They moved to Scotland about 1840.
Thomas PEW married Elizabeth SHANKS, daughter of Robert Shanks and Elizabeth BOLTON, probably some time before 1819
They emigrated to Scotland with the Following children:
- Robert Pew born County Down about 1819
Elizabeth Pew aborn about 1824
Marther Pew born about 1828
Agnes born about 1830
Isabella Smith Pew born about 1833
Thomas Pew was born in County Down on 12 April 1837.
Their eldest known child, Robert married a Janet HASTIE (daughter of Jamed HASTIE and Mary BELL) in County Down in 1837, she was also born in County Down about 1819.
They had at least two children in Ireland before moving to Scotland before the 1841 census.
Elizabeth and Alexander, Elizabeth was the eldest.
The Irish resources baffle me. I've tried searching my ancestors online, but nothing has come up. I was hoping that someone might be able to help me.
Thank you
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start with http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/ and look up hasty, pugh etc for possible clues
good luck, jim
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Hello,
I am searching the very same family tree. I had got as far back as Thomas Pew and Betty Shanks but no further. I too am having trouble with Irish records. Thomas Pew is my great-great-great-great grandfather.
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Hello Moggerdog,
I also have Thomas Pew & Eliz Shanks in my direct line. Their daughter Isabella Smith Pew married daniel Gray Russell, my grt grt Grandfather.#
They stayed in Quarry Rd Airdrie
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There is only 1 will for Pew/Pugh listed on the PRONI wills site. The will itself has been destroyed but the abstract has survived:
Letters of Administration of the personal estate of John Pugh otherwise Pew late of 32 Moffatt-street Belfast Gentleman who died 27 December 1884 at same place were granted at Belfast to Joseph Francis Pugh of same place M.D. the Child. Effects £1,207. (This John Pugh/Pew was born 1822).
Griffiths Valuation (1863) has no entries for Pew in Co Down. The name does however appear as Pugh, and there are 9 entries, all in Kilkeel parish. If you have no other leads, and you know your ancestors exact religion, you might want to research parish records for Kilkeel to see if you can find any baptism and marriages that match the information you already have.
www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
You can see what parish records exist on the PRONI site:
www.proni.gov.uk/index/research_and_records_held/catalogues_guides_indexes_and_leaflets/online_guides_and_indexes.htm
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Hi,
If Letters of Administration were issued it means that there never was a will and the courts gave approval to a responsible person to dispose of the estate. There may be some documentation associated with this available at PRONI.
Regards
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Kingskerswell is correct that there was no Will filed but as far as I know all pre-1900 administration paperwork was destroyed when the Four Courts burned.
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Hi folks,
It's nice to get so many replies after having posted this ages ago. I've done my very best to serch the family back even further online. I keep hitting a brick wall- nearly 2 years on and I m no further back. I'm hoping that all the imformation ISN'T online. Those of you who know Irish genealogy well, could it be possible that there might be further records available only in hard copy?
I'd like to take a trip to Ireland sometime to try to fill in the gaps.
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The parish records are not all on-line, and many need to be looked up on microfilms either at PRONI or by ordering them in to your nearest LDS library. If you think there is any merit in my suggestion you research the PUGH families in the parish of Kilkeel (since that’s the spelling that was most common in Ireland and Kilkeel is the only parish in Co Down that they are listed) you may be interested to see that there was still one Pugh family farming there in 1901. I looked to see what religion they were to narrow your search, but it turns out to be a mixed marriage so that may not help quite so much:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Mullarton/Mullartown/1235569/
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Thank you, Elwyn.
I will definitely look up that town. I have looked up Pugh as well as other possible spellings I have come across. The first generations of Pews in Scotland were definitely Protestant. Another spelling which has been used in Scotland for this particular family is Pue. I can see using the link you've given me that there are quite a few Pues in Down. in the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
Thank you.
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Well I am off to Ireland for a visit this July so I hope to dig further into this myself. I will be in County Down and I hope to see if I can uncover records not yet online.
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You are very lucky Moggerdog...I hope to do this sometime too, as I think it's the only way I'll find out any more information
Hope you find out loads !!
Elspeth
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Have fun. Fingers cross you make a discovery ;D
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I've got 2 days only in Belfast as part of our trip but I am planning to visit the PRONI. I wonder too if it would be worth visiting some of the County Down parishes such as Kilkeel? There are some 'Pugh' records mentioned online pertaining to Annalong Presbyterian Church. I have tried searching Shanks, Hastie, Pew and Bolton online but do not reap results that mean I can say any are ours for sure. I find some with those surnames who seem to hail from County Down, and of course couples could have met from different parishes, but I have nothing concrete. The details are so little. I cannot find a death certificate anywhere for Thomas Pew born c. 1796 although I did for his widow Elizabeth Shanks. I wonder if he moved back to Ireland or on to somewhere else? I checked Free BMB but no joy there either. If you have anything at all you would like me to try and find out while in Ireland or to ask at PRONI then please let me know. How do you fellow researchers know they came from the County Down area? I was told this by another relative tracing our history at one time but the only information I can personally find says simply 'Ireland'.
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How did you find out the exact date of birth in Ireland for Robert Pew's brother Thomas Katrina? The Irish stuff baffles me. Spent so long trying to find records :-\
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The Irish stuff baffles me too.
My interpretation is that Thomas Pew born c. 1796 died before the Scottish statutory records started in 1855 and that is the reason we don't have his death record. The fact that Elizabeth is listed as a widow in the 1851 census supports this.
The first year of the statutory records in Scotland, 1855, was like a trial year. The information given in the 1855 records is far more detailed than subsequent years. Thomas (b.1837) married in 1855. His marriage record provides his date and place of birth. However, I've not been able to find a record of this in the Irish records, but of course he was born before statutory records were established in Ireland. If there were any church records for him they could have been lost in the infamous fire or, fingers crossed, they're just not available online.
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Thanks for your reply. Yes that is true about the statutory records but I was still in hope of finding something in the parish records nonetheless! Well yes I am of the same mind in the hope that the Irish records exist and are just not online yet but I have found more records today including ones specific to County Down and Kilkeel Parish and so far no Pews/Pughs/Pues. But I won't give up until I am over there anyhow!
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I have located Thomas Pew and Helen Paterson's 1855 marriage certificate also on Scotland's People just now, so thank you. What a stroke of luck that it mentions the county to give us a little more to work from! I had always wondered how my dad's cousin knew it was County Down in particular (and he is no longer available to ask) so now I know. I had got as far as noting down all of Robert Pew's siblings (including this Thomas) from Census records thereby giving me a rough estimate of their DOBs but not much else. I see that the spelling is 'Pue' on this marriage certificate which lends weight to the theory that the family name may also have been changed from 'Pugh' on arrival in Scotland c. 1840. Makes sense when you consider they were not literate themselves. Thanks again for your help! :)
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The only Irish church records that were destroyed in Dublin in the 1920s were those from Established (Church of Ireland) churches that had sent their records there for safekeeping. However, many churches (of all denominations) do not have surviving pre-1850 records.
See DOWN RESOURCES section on Church Records to get an idea of what is available.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498485.0.html
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The only Irish church records that were destroyed in Dublin in the 1920s were those from Established (Church of Ireland) churches that had sent their records there for safekeeping. However, many churches (of all denominations) do not have surviving pre-1850 records.
See DOWN RESOURCES section on Church Records to get an idea of what is available.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498485.0.html
Thank you - I shall check that link out. I've written to PRONI as of today also to advise me before my trip. :)
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From Ros Davies website, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/P/PrPy.htm#pu
are these two, brothers, father and son etc.etc.
Francis PUE . Kilkeel leased land in Mullartown 1 May 1770 from Nicholas Bayly HOTC p106,252
Hugh PUES . Kilkeel leased land in Mullartown in May 1770 from Nicholas Bayly HOTC p252
Ros expands the source HOTC – it is a book Hanna of the Close- from Scottish Origins to 1798 R. Keith Hanna R.K. Hanna, Sheffield UK 2008.
Mullartown and MullartownUpper are both townlands running straight inland from Annalong rising up to up to the Mourne mountains in the civil parish of Kilkeel.
Ros Davies also lists church records extanct eg
Annalong Presbyterian Church
in Annalong village, Moneydarraghmore townland.....Records from 1840; graveyard attached
See http://www.annalongpc.btinternet.co.uk/
The nearest church of Ireland sometimes allowed events and have records eg
Kilhorne Church of Ireland, Kilkeel Rd, Annalong beside the shore
Baptisms from 1842, marriages from 1769 & burials from 1857; gravestone inscriptions available UHF Vol 10 , oldest stone 1845; email me, Ros Davies for a gravestone look-up
Good luck JimG
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That is really helpful, thank you!! It's good to see that there were Pues in the Mullartown area before my line emigrated (around 1840) and also that some were there afterwards too according to Griffith Valuation Records albeit spelled PUGH. Because that is the one place that keeps coming up for PEWS/PUGHS/PUES in County Down for that time I really do wonder if they are my ancestors - it seems quite likely.
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I have seen something about famine lists say 1846 onwards made up by poorlaw unions, but cant remember where. I would have thought the higher mourne mountains areas must have suffered
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I have received an email repy from Rosalind Davies which I shall put here. Very helpful.
Hi Lorna,
I have several Pews in the Surnames section of my website and all are from Kilkeel- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/P/PrPy.htm#pu
As Pugh was a Welsh name and Kilkeel is a fishing area, I suggest that your original ancestor came across the water in a fishing boat looking for better opportunities.
If you look on my Kilkeel church page, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/KilkeelAll.htm you'll see that Kilhorne records Baptisms from 1842, marriages from 1769 & burials from 1857. I'm not sure where they are kept but probably in Public Records, Belfast- www.proni.gov.uk
Civil registration started in 1864 so you'll need church records to find the family. Try https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084 & the free indexes on http://www.ancestryireland.com/database.php
http://www.rootsireland.ie/
http://www.emeraldancestors.com
I checked the published gravestones;
in Kilhorne Church of Ireland graveyard;
Pue /Rough granite stone in a low railed enclosure/. Erected in memory of William Pue who died 17 Jan 1862 aged 48 years. Margaret Pue died 24 Mar 1912 aged 91. Their son Hugh Pue died 26 Aug 1926 aged 67. Margaret, wife of Hugh Pue, died 15 Apr 1952 aged 83.
Pue /Rough granite stone, re-cut/. Erected in loving memory of Elizabeth Pue who died 16 Jan 1864 aged 66 years. Also her husband Hugh Pue who died 26 Nov 1872 aged 80 years. And their son William died 16 Oct 1886 aged 76 years. Also their grandson William Pue died 26 Dec 1898 aged 33 years. And his father Hugh Pue died 16 Nov 1899 aged 77 years. William Pue, born 28 Nov 1893 , died 31 Jul 1936. Margaret Pue, born 04 Dec 1882 , died 20 Mar 1943. "Blessed are the dead which died in the Lord."
in Kilkeel old graveyard;
Pue /Low stone of c. 1930 /. Pue.
Couldn't find you're other surnames.
I checked the land records, Index to Tithe Applotment Books, 1823-1838 (head of house only) and have listed all Pews in Kilkeel. None of your pother surnames in Kilkeel area.
Pues, Alexander County : Down
Parish : Kilkeel
Townland : Mullertown
Year : 1830
Pues, George County : Down
Parish : Kilkeel
Townland : Mullertown
Year : 1830
Pues, Hugh, Jr. County : Down
Parish : Kilkeel
Townland : Mullertown
Year : 1830
Pues, Hugh, Sr. County : Down
Parish : Kilkeel
Townland : Mullertown
Year : 1830
Pues, Nancy County : Down
Parish : Kilkeel
Townland : Mullertown
Year : 1830
You might like to check the earlier land records, Freeholders on www.proni.gov.uk Also check their Will Calendars.
Best wishes,
Ros
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Thanks for the info. I'd also noticed that that town keeps coming up. I've been a little hesitant to assume there's a connection because their names are so different. Maybe I'm just used to the Scottish naming patterns. Had I seen some Thomas' or Roberts in there I might be more excited. Although, as Elizabeth Shanks' father was a Robert, that maybe where that name entered the family and maybe our oldest Thomas was named after his maternal grandfather.
Nancy might be a link. I know our first generation of Pews in Scotland did have a Agnes, and Agnes and Nancy are often interchangeable.
I hope you have luck when you visit Ireland :D
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Yes I understand your hesitancy as I too have felt the same. It is possible they had a son before Robert Pew who either stayed in Ireland or died and that Robert was indeed named after Elizabeth's father, and then their next son Thomas was named after his father. That is how the Irish naming pattern loosely followed apparently. I do know that name spellings were commonly interchangeable and Thomas Pew (who married Helen Paterson) had the spelling PUE on his marriage certificate in Scotland. I have been looking for SHANKS and HASTIE and can find some in both County Down and County Antrim (and there are PUES of County Antrim of the same time period including Elizabeths) but again nothing that screams out our ancestors for sure. I keep wondering if Thomas Pew's (married to Elizabeth Shanks) mother was called Isabella Smith. Of course they could be naming daughters after aunts too. I hope to either find out more in Ireland or have some wonderful person come along and fill in the gaps for us! :D There is an Isabella Smith of County Down who died aged 67 years in 1842 so who knows. I'm not sure if they used their maiden names or married names in Ireland.
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There are BOLTONS in County Antrim also so it is possible they came together there first before making a move to County Down?