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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: patjk on Tuesday 16 June 09 07:50 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find any information about my grandmother, Ada Agatha Starnes (1887 - 1962) who was born at Staines and whose family resided for the most part in the area of Sipson, a village currently in danger of disappearing under the new runway planned for Heathrow. She married James Edward Rogers (1890 - 1934). They had three children; Betty Rogers -- my mother -- who was born in Uxbridge in 1920 and died in 1986; Ada Susie Rogers (1914 - 1920); and May Rogers (1926 - c. 1988). Ada's mother, Annie Starnes (my great grandmother), was born at Sipson in Dec. 1859. Any information on this family would be gratefully received. The attached photo shows Ada her husband James Rogers, and their daughter Ada Susie shortly before her death from diptheria.
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Do you have the census returns or do you want them?
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Do you have the census returns or do you want them?
Woody32, hi: No, I don't have the census records and would be much obliged if you have them to hand. Working on this from the US is not particularly easy, especially when some records don't seem to exist -- e.g. my Aunt, May Rogers, who seems not have got married -- according to the indexes -- which seems highly unlikely, knowing her as I did.
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Ok..just give me a few minutes and i will post them. :)
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Hope this is the right one :)
1901...Living with a CHILES family in "The Ruins" Barton Stacey.
John W Chiles 83 wid b Barton Stacey retired farmer
Earle Chiles 51 b Barton Stacey
Henrietta Chiles 31 b Barton Stacey
Ada Starnes 13 Visitor b Sipson Slough Bucks.
RG13 Piece 1113 Folio 24 Page 13
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1891. Living at Winkfield Berkshire.
Sarah Starnes (wid) 61 Head Living on own means b Isleworth Middlesex
Annie Starnes 31 Dau b Sipson
Elsie Starnes 20 Dau b Sipson
Ada A Starnes 3 GrandDau b Darlington ( could be Harlington, just a mile down the road from Sipson ) Middlesex
RG12 Piece 1007 Folio 57 Page 8
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do you have details of Sarah Starnes (Ada's Grandmother) ?
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1881..Living at Sipson Harmondsworth.
James Starnes 50 Grocer b Sipson
Sarah Starnes (nee Temple, off freebmd )51 b Isleworth
Emily Mary Starnes 23 b Sipson
Annie Starnes 21 b Sipson
Albert Edwin Starnes 17 b Sipson assistant Grocer
Percy Leonard Starnes 14 b Sipson
William North Starnes 8 b Sipson
RG11 Piece 1328 Folio 103 Page 13
Marriage..
Sep 1853
James Starnes Bermondsey 1d 83
Sarah Temple
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1871.. Living at Sipson Harmondsworth.
all born harmondsworth/Sipson except Sarah (Isleworth)
James Starnes JNR 40 Grocer
Sarah Starnes 41
Emily Mary Starnes 13
Annie Starnes 10
Albert Edward Starnes 8
Ernest Temple Starnes 6
Percy Leonard Starnes 4
Ethel Starnes 7 months
Elsie Starnes 7 months
RG10 Piece 1305 Folio 104 Page 25
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1861 Living at Sipson/Harmondsworth
transcribed as STAINES
James Starnes 30 Grocer
Sarah Starnes 31
William P Starnes 6
Emily May Starnes 3
Annie Starnes 1
RG9 Piece 764 Folio 89 Page 19
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I think in 1901 mother Annie is living with her brother Albert (a publican) and his family in West Drayton (I can't access the full info).
It's possible she's the one who married Henry Daniels in 1907 - in 1911 an Annie Daniels, b. 1861, Sipson, is living in Eton with a Henry Daniels of a similar age.
By age at least, she fits with the Annie Daniels who died in 1928 in Uxbridge district aged 69.
(http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl | http://www.1911census.co.uk/ | http://www.1901censusonline.com/ )
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1851.. Living at Harmondsworth/sipson
James Staines 70 Head Grocer b Witterham Kent
Mary Staines 43 Wife Lunatic b St Marylebone Kent
James Staines 20 son grocers assistant b Harmondsworth
Frances Staines 18 dau b Harmondsworth
Henry Staines 9 son b Harmondsworth
Ellen Staines 7 dau b Harmondsworth
William Staines 4 son b Harmondsworth
Lousia Eldridge 17 servant.
HO107 Piece 1696 Folio 471 Page 29
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1841 living at Harmondsworth/ Sipson
all born in county apart from Jame and Thomas.
James Starnes 60 Grocer
Mary Starnes 34
Thomas Starnes 57
Jane Starnes 15
Mary Starnes 12
James Starnes 10
Frances Starnes 8
HO107 Piece 655 Book 9
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1861 for James Starnes Senior. Living at Harmondsworth/Sipson
James Starnes 80 Head Grocer Market Gardener
Mary Starnes 53 Wife
Henry Starnes 19 son b Sipson
Ellen Starnes 17 dau b Sipson
William Starnes 14 son b Sipson
RG9 Piece 764 Folio: 90 Page 22
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1871 for James Starnes Senior (still going strong :) ) still living in Sipson.
James Starnes 90
Mary Starnes 63
Ellen Starnes 27 dau b Harmondsworth
William Starnes 24 son Carpenter B Harmondsworth
James Pym 14 Grocers assistant.
RG10 Piece 1305 Folio 103 Page 24
death for James..
Dec 1873
James Starnes age 92 Staines 3a 10
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1851 for Sarah Temple ? Living London Road Isleworth
Mary Temple 54 Head (wid) b Barban or Barton (maybe Barton Stacey?)Hants.
Sarah Temple 21 Dau Isleworth Middlesex.
Roberts Spear 1 Cousin
HO107 Piece 1698 Folio 212 Page 9
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Struggling with 1841..
there is a Sarah Temple b 1829 living with the Fisher family in BARTON STACEY not born in county
also on the same page is a JOHN CHILD/CHILE b 1821 (See previous post ADA STARNES was living with a JOHN W CHILES in Barton Stacey ).
HO107 Piece 383 Book 12
anyone else want to check?
"Hope this is the right one
1901...Living with a CHILES family in "The Ruins" Barton Stacey.
John W Chiles 83 wid b Barton Stacey retired farmer
Earle Chiles 51 b Barton Stacey
Henrietta Chiles 31 b Barton Stacey
Ada Starnes 13 Visitor b Sipson Slough Bucks.
RG13 Piece 1113 Folio 24 Page 13"
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1871 for James Starnes Senior (still going strong :) ) still living in Sipson.
James Starnes 90
Mary Starnes 63
Ellen Starnes 27 dau b Harmondsworth
William Starnes 24 son Carpenter B Harmondsworth
James Pym 14 Grocers assistant.
RG10 Piece 1305 Folio 103 Page 24
death for James..
Dec 1873
James Starnes age 92 Staines 3a 10
Woody32, Hello and thank you SOOOO much. This is amazing information. It has to be Ada, my grandmother, living as a visitor at 'The Ruins' since there is a family tradition that she was in the Andover area for some unspecified reason around 1900. You cannot imagine how often, in recent years, I've mentally flogged myself for not asking her questions about her early life and her family. I did discover that Ada was illegitimate, a somewhat startling find, and something I don't believe even my mother was aware of. My stepfather certainly wasn't and was as surprised as I was when I told him of it. As you discovered, Annie did marry but whether he was my grandmother's father there is now no way to discover I imagine.
Ada took a rather dim view of alcohol, and there was something -- or someone -- in the family background that led to that aversion. I never knew the truth of the matter, but if Ada lived for any length of time with her mother's brother Albert, who was a publican it appears after being a grocer, he or his customers might be the culprit.
Thank you again.
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The Chiles family:
John William Chiles d. 1907 aged 90 in Andover district.
Earl(e) Chiles b. 1850 d. Mar 1920 in Andover, can't see a marriage.
In 1881 they had a number of children, (Earle and Henrietta are shown) including a John who appears to have possibly married later in 1881 to Emily Mary Starnes. (They appear in 1901 in Hayes, Middlesex, on http://www.1901censusonline.com/ under the spelling "Childs"). So there was a family link there.
Do you have Ada Agatha's birth certificate? With luck, the details there (any addresses, etc), might lead to other possible places to look for her family.
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The Chiles family:
John William Chiles d. 1907 aged 90 in Andover district.
Earl(e) Chiles b. 1850 d. Mar 1920 in Andover, can't see a marriage.
In 1881 they had a number of children, (Earle and Henrietta are shown) including a John who appears to have possibly married later in 1881 to Emily Mary Starnes. (They appear in 1901 in Hayes, Middlesex, on http://www.1901censusonline.com/ under the spelling "Childs"). So there was a family link there.
Do you have Ada Agatha's birth certificate? With luck, the details there (any addresses, etc), might lead to other possible places to look for her family.
Yes, I do have Ada's birth certificate as it happens, and it's how I found out that she was illegitimate -- no father's name is provided. But it's a spartan document. The birth occurred on June 28th 1887 at -- as you surmised -- Harlington, in the sub-district of Staines in Middlesex. The daughter's name is given (Ada Agnes) and the mother's, Annie Starnes of 'Sipson, Harmondsworth.' Aside from the name of the registrar and the date of registration (August 10th 1887) that's all the information there is.
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It seems that Percival Leonard Starnes b1867..emigrated to America..theres a tree on Anc.... that has most of the details of your family....The tree's owner is a Wayne Starnes.
if you don't have access to ance..i can email him on your behalf.
If you PM me your email address i will send it to him and you can compare notes etc.
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Not sure how to get you my email address, and I understand it's not allowed (or not recommended) to include email addresses in messages. But I certainly have no problem letting you have it. I'm very new to this, so please bear with me. If you can let me know how, I'll get on it.
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Hi Patjk,
If you look at my picture on the left..underneath is a symbol click on that and it allows you to PM me :)
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I was born in Sipson in 1961 and moved from there in 1967. My family owned a lot of land in the area and had been market gardeners in the area for generations. My father was the last to farm there under the name of Wild and Robbins. If I remember rightly the Starnes family were still the grocers when I lived there, if they weren't I am sure they had been within living memory of my parents.
As for the aversion to alcohol many of the families in the village worked on the farm for Wild and Robbins. Both Mr Wild (my G G Grandfather) and his partner Mr Robbins were strict Baptists and tee total. (many of my ancestors signed "The Pledge")They expected their employees to be the same and even built a coffee house in the village as an alternative to the pub. Stories are that the farm employees used to go into the pub by the back door and the coffee house is long gone!
I'll have a look in the books I have on the village for reference to the Starnes and PM scans to you if you like
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Hi,
Here is a Photo of Percival Leonard Starnes outside his shop..(thanks to Wayne Starne for permission to post on here)
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Hi Woody32
Is that shop in Sipson?
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hi, according to the tag on the photo..it was in LONGFORD LONDON.
Hi Patjk,
I did send him your Email address, I will send it again today.
Woody.
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hi, according to the tag on the photo..it was in LONGFORD LONDON.
Hi Patjk,
I did send him your Email address, I will send it again today.
Woody.
If one looks closely at the photograph, the words 'Longford Post Office' can be seen over the door of the shop and according to a birth record I found online, Longford is in or near to Staines, Middlesex, which makes sense since a number of the Starnes family are stated to have been born at Staines. However, I have so far been unable to find a Longford in relationship to Staines or any references to a post office there. There is a Longford in Ireland which muddies the water a bit.
Incidentally, I discovered that Percy Starnes and his wife Sara had three children, Alexander James (born at Staines in 1894), Kathleen Ellen (born at Staines in September 1896) and Leonard M. Starnes who was born about 1904, possibly in the United States since I can't find a record of his birth in the UK.
Thanks, Woody, for passing on my contact details.
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I work in Longford, it's about a mile or so from Sipson and borders the northern runway of Heathrow Airport. I don't recognise that frontage although there are still some old houses and pubs standing.
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I work in Longford, it's about a mile or so from Sipson and borders the northern runway of Heathrow Airport. I don't recognise that frontage although there are still some old houses and pubs standing.
Staines, Sipson and Longford must be fairly close to each other then, which makes sense so far as the Starnes family is concerned. Or, at least, my branch of it. It's difficult to date the photograph, but c. 1900 would be close since Percy Starnes appears to have emmigrated to the US in 1907, and made several trips back and forth in the preceding years. It would be nice to know the address of the Longford Post Office in 1900. O for a set of Post Office directories!
Patrick
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Hi Patjk...He emigrated in 1902 :)
I have sent you a PM .