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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: PSM on Sunday 14 June 09 12:45 BST (UK)
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Hi, I know I've been doing this a bit lately... :) , and this one might be a big ask, but here goes.
I'm after a lookup for Thomas Robinson, b. 1843 in Leek, Staffs. He married Sarah (surname?), b. 1844 in Manchester.
OK, that's what I know, here's what I think, but can't prove: Sarah Ann Harrison, married in Manchester in Dec, 1870
I know all the children's names, Maud, Ellen, Minnie, and Sarah, but not birth dates (just years). I think I can find them out but what I'd really like to know is marriage details, Sarah's maiden name and also some details on both their parents.
Is that too hard without her maiden name or does that just make it more of a challenge and therefore more fun???? :D If anyone can (wants to try) shed a little light here it would be very much appreciated by this antipodean very amateur researcher!
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Can you get anything from the lancashirebmd site?
That'll have the marriages 'paired' as husbnad & wife...
Pauline
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Yes, that's where I got the 'I think' info, but I don't know if it's really them without knowing her maiden name.
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Ok, so you could get a parish lookup of that dec 1870 marriage (as it was at the Cathedral), saving the cost of a GRO cert.
That'll give the details of age,address, occupation, parents & witnesses which you can compare against census...
Do the kid's ages tie in with a marriage at that (1870) time?
Are her parents nearby, etc,etc...
You may still need a child's birth cert, but it's a step closer without spending too many pennies..
PAuline
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That sounds like a good idea, but (green here) how do I get a parish lookup? There were a few Sarah and Thomas Robinson's married around then, hence my doubts.
The kids dob's - Maud 1880, Ellen 18??, Minnie 1877, Sarah 1874, seem to tie in with an 1870 marriage I think.
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1881 ref (for others to view)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=10300347
Kids usually turn up 6-12 months after marriage, so I'd have expected to be at least one (if not 2) earlier ones from an 1870 marriage..
Can Thos & Sarah be ID'd in 1871?
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Do you mean the 1871 census? I havn't found them in any census yet! :-[
I might have to sign up with anc*****.com I think.
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Hello,
I think you need more information and possibly going for a birth certificate would be best.
You have enough information to request one:
Thomas the father is a baker/confectioner and Sarah is the mother's name.
There are a few marriages with possible spouses of Thomas Robinson and Sarah before the birth of the first child.
Sarah, the oldest child on 1881 was born 1874 which is quite a gap from an 1870 marriage.
Free BMD has births for:
Minnie - quite a few ???
1879 Maud Chorlton
quite a few for Ellen too
so Maud looks the best bet. You could specify with the info you have.
good luck
heywood
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Do you mean the 1871 census? I havn't found them in any census yet! :-[
I might have to sign up with anc*****.com I think.
The 1871 is a difficult one - the only one showing is a Thomas born 'Leck' Staffordshire and living in Salford with a wife Ann - who could be 20 yrs older. He is not a baker and I would have thought he would have been ???
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I've given the link straight to them in 1881. (Above)
Can't find 'em for definite in 1871 or 1891..
Rather than sign up with Ancestry, try seeking out free-to-use access at a library; quite a few have it
Pauline
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:D I just found them all in the 1881 census preview window! Not much new info but it's definitely them!
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1891 has him born Manchester:
1891 RG12; Piece: 3232; Folio 99; Page 20
3 Bradley Street Manchester (Ancoats)
Thomas Robinson 49 yrs Baker
Sarah 45 yrs confectioner
Sarah 17 yrs
Minnie 14 yrs
Wllen 9 yrs
with lodgers Pearson and Barker families
all born Manchester
No Maud ??? thought if we could find her there may be a clue.
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Maud died in 1943, I know that much
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Yes she's back with the family in 1901 - just not there in 1891 ???
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I've given the link straight to them in 1881. (Above)
Can't find 'em for definite in 1871 or 1891..
Rather than sign up with Ancestry, try seeking out free-to-use access at a library; quite a few have it
Pauline
Thanks for the link, I must have read your mind!
I'm in Australia, out in the 'sticks' a bit so the library isn't really an option for me .. :'(
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Yes she's back with the family in 1901 - just not there in 1891 ???
Boarding school, or a sleepover maybe? ;D
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Excuse me Pauline, how do you get a parish lookup, like the one you mentioned earlier?
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I doubt Boarding school - hospital; grandparents or visiting maybe ???
here they are in 1901 then :D
1901 RG13; Piece: 3774; Folio: 46; Page: 1
65 Lightbowne Road Moston
Thomas Robinson 59 yrs Baker b Leek
Sarah 55 yrs
Maud 21 yrs ?? maker
Ellen 19 yrs
others bornManchester
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I thought she may be the one "Visitor" to Lily Barnes in 1891. (Blackpool)
To get a parish lookup lob in a request title
"Lookup Marriage @ "X" Cathedral (Year), Pretty please with kisses and sugar icing on top"
(2nd half of title optional)
And tell 'em what you know, and what you would like to find out.
PAUline
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possibility:
1891 RG12; Piece: 3454; Folio 49; Page 24
26 South Bank Street Layton with Warbreck Blackpool
Lily Barnes head single 21 yrs Draper b Derbyshire Derby
Mabel sister 9 yrs b Lancashire Manchester
Maud Robinson visitor 10 yrs b Manchester
but who are the Barnes if it's her?
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same here Pauline ;)
Is there a specific reason that you think it is Sarah Ann Harrison or were you just going off the marriages?
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I was just trying to find when Maude married my G Grandfather, William Merrick.. no luck yet...
Oh, :o wow you guys have been busy! Thanks!
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same here Pauline ;)
Is there a specific reason that you think it is Sarah Ann Harrison or were you just going off the marriages?
Yes, just a guess really, from the marriages. Not conclusive at all.
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I thought she may be the one "Visitor" to Lily Barnes in 1891. (Blackpool)
To get a parish lookup lob in a request title
"Lookup Marriage @ "X" Cathedral (Year), Pretty please with kisses and sugar icing on top"
(2nd half of title optional)
And tell 'em what you know, and what you would like to find out.
PAUline
Alright I'll do that, tomorrow now, as it's nearly midnight here and I need to get some beauty sleep! ;)
Before I go, I want to say a special thank-you to Pauline and Heywood, much appreciated for your time and efforts. :-*
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I was just trying to find when Maude married my G Grandfather, William Merrick.. no luck yet...
Prestwich registration district December Qtr 1908 reference 8d page 516
Regards,
Mo
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Have you considered this couple's marriage as being the one you want?
sarah Dobson
Thomas Robinson
Q3 1873 Manchester Cathedral
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Hi PMS
William Merrick
Maud Robinson
Dec Qrt 1908
Prestwick 8b 516
Hope this Helps
Regards
Iria
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That looks very possible Tazette - there are a couple of others too but I think they have a second name.
However I can't see a suitable one in 1871 ???
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There is one born c 1848- mother is a chemist/druggist and Sarah is a milliner.
Now it is all very convoluted - the Blackpool connection are Milliners (I think from memory ::)) in 1901 - name of Beardsall. I have been trying to connect with no luck so far.
The best bet would really be that birth certificate. It would solve a lot of problems. :D
Think I'll go for a walk now and enjoy the sun - the brain is addled. ;D
good luck
heywood
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That looks very possible Tazette - there are a couple of others too but I think they have a second name.
However I can't see a suitable one in 1871 ???
Looking at Sarah's approximate year of birth (child) leads me to think that the marriage was closer to 1874 than to 1871.
Birth registration for Sarah and Minnie tie in, as well.
Sarah 1875 Ardwick
Minnie 1876 Ardwick
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So do I and those birth certs will help ;D
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Thanks for the great help and advice everyone! (I got a laugh at being called PMS too!!! ;D I don't get that being male! ;))
So Heywood, sorry, the best birth certs to get would be Maud's (is that right?), and I'm not 100% sure which one in FreeB** is hers, there's a couple of possibilities, Chorlton, Prestwich. I always thought she was born in Openshaw myself... ??? Are there any others you think I need or just the one?
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Hi again,
1881 -the family are in Openshaw and the registration district is Chorlton so I think that would be the best bet.
You can apply for certificates online http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/index.htm
apparently also you can specify the parents so if that reference for Maud wasn't yours, I think you are only charged part of the fee.
Then you would have Sarah's maiden name and we could try for further details.
heywood
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Hi PSM
Any of the three births registered in Sub Reg. district of Ardwick would be good. I would personally order Sarah's - (1875 Ardwick Manchester: ARD/123/75 ) or Minnie's (1876 Ardwick Manchester : ARD/135/36 ).
For reference: Maud's: Ardwick Manchester: ARD/153/43
Remember they were in the Sub Reg. of Ardwick in the 1881 census.
And yes- mention the parents' names when ordering- it will definately help!
Good luck!
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Oh heck!
Well going off my earlier advice re specifying the parents - that should be ok (fingers and everything else crossed).
I feel daft because I couldn't see why Chorlton should be the reg district for Openshaw which is much nearer to Ardwick. There you are ::) ::) ::)
I have told another rootschatter that I would try to get to the Library in Manchester this week so I will check the Sarah Ann Harrison and Sarah Dobson marriages if possible to see. However, since they both Thomas Robinsons - it may be difficult unless he was a baker when he married perhaps.
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You guys are awesome! Thanks again for the great help! :-* :-* I'll wait for your reply later in the week if you get to the library, otherwise I'll go ahead and order the cert. Cheers!
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Hello everyone,
I got there this afternoon and well done Tazette :D
July 20th 1873
Thomas Robinson 31 yrs Baker 1 Brown Street father Thomas Robinson farmer
Sarah Dobson 28 yrs Spinster 289 Great Ancoats Street father Richard Dobson cord cutter
Witnesses: Thomas Ball and Mary Ellen Edwards
Thomas signed his name as did the witnesses and Sarah made her mark.
I would say that this is the one - do you think?
Robinson/Harrison
Thomas 22 widower and was a wood turner as was his father Thomas so I think that is ruled out on age and occupation.
I did try to find the baptism for Minnie as in Family Search but she wasn't in the Gorton churches I found.
I haven't found a possible yet for Sarah :'( but will post a possible for Thomas in a new post.
heywood
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Hope someone can look at this - haven't checked any other Thomases.
1851 HO107; Piece: 2008; Folio: 466; Page: 22
Cartledge, Bradnop, Staffs (Reg. district is Leek but as you know I'm not that good at registration districts ::))
Thomas Robinson head 37 yrs Ag Lab b Heather Lee
Sarah wife 34 yrs b Heather Lee
James 16 yrs Ag Lab b Quarnford
Mary 12 yrs b Quarnford
Thomas 9 yrs b Quarnford
Martha Ann 5 yrs b Leek
(all Staffordshire)
1861 RG9; Piece: 1947; Folio: 107; Page: 3
same place but Thomas snr is now a Farmer of 18 acres.
Thomas is not with the family.
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Well, I just came back after tea and thought I would look for the witnesses to see if I can pinpoint Thomas or Sarah in 1871.
Looking for Mary Ellen Edwards- no joy and then thought I'd look for BMDs- 1877 Mary Ellen Edwards and Thomas Ball as possible spouses :D
1881 RG11; Piece: 3912; Folio: 15; Page: 8
think this is them - no clues but he was born Leek.
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1851 HO107; Piece: 2008; Folio: 466; Page: 22
Cartledge, Bradnop, Staffs (Reg. district is Leek but as you know I'm not that good at registration districts ::))
Thomas Robinson head 37 yrs Ag Lab b Heather Lee
Sarah wife 34 yrs b Heather Lee
James 16 yrs Ag Lab b Quarnford
Mary 12 yrs b Quarnford
Thomas 9 yrs b Quarnford
Martha Ann 5 yrs b Leek
(all Staffordshire)
1861 RG9; Piece: 1947; Folio: 107; Page: 3
same place but Thomas snr is now a Farmer of 18 acres.
Thomas is not with the family.
1841 has the above family in Allstonefield (Longnor, Leek) with Thomas & Sarah, aged 25, Jams 6, Mary 2, and Thomas 7 weeks. Thomas Sr. is a Collier.
HO107; Enumeration District 3, Folio 12,
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Hi Tazette,
thanks for that. I looked the area up on map and now I think that this is Thomas in 1861
1861 RG9; Piece: 1946; Folio: 31; Page: 22
Easing Farm Tittesworth
Thomas Robinson 19 yrs Farm Servant born Flash Staffs
in the employ of Richard and Sarah Dean
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Hi PSM ,
I am trying to find Sarah Dobson ???
Family Search - you can see has christenings for Thomas Dinny Dobson; Elizabeth Dobson and Sarah Dobson in Manchester with parents Richard and Catharine. (There is also a Rich. and Cath. in Liverpool- not the ones).
1841 HO107; Piece 575; Book: 15; Folio: 38; Page: 15
Holden Street
Richd Dobson 30 yrs Carter
Catharine 28 yrs
Thomas 1 yr
all born in county
This fits with the Thomas christening
Free BMD has a marriage 1838 Catharine Denny and Richard Dobson as possibles and this would support the strange christening name -Thomas Dinny Dobson.
Free BMD also has deaths which may apply: Elizabeth 1843; Richard 1846 and 1849.
There is also a birth for a Richard 1848 which makes things a bit strange when trying to sort out the deaths :-\ **Just seen another Richard who may be the one born 1848.
There is also a Catherine Dobson death for 1852 :-\
That may account for why I can't spot them in censuses.
1861 RG9; Piece: 2914; Folio: 77; Page: 13
3 Coopers Court Queens Street Salford
Sarah Dobson 17 lodger yrs Cotton Spinner b Manchester
with a Hyde family
(possible?)
I've seen Thomas somewhere as a boarder/lodger but can't see them in 1851.
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:o :o :o ;D
Hi guys, it's 9am here and I just got online, Blimey! You guys are the best! How can I thank you? I'm just trying to get my head around so much new info! Thanks so much. I'll go over this all today, when I get a bit of time.
BTW the name's Paul *handshake*, great job, thanks!
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Hi Paul,
I think there's enough to keep you occupied - take your time and see if it makes sense then just post if there is something glaringly wrong/odd/nonsensical ::) ::) ::)
Have a good day - it's almost midnight so I'm off to bed (at a decent time for once... rootschat is so addictive)
Kath :D
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I drive my husband mad with my butterfly mind and I do realise that what makes sense to me isn't always straightforward.
I was just looking for any Denny people in 1851 to see if Catharine, Thomas and Sarah are there- no! (Also some of 1851 was damaged so they might be on those sheets).
However, there is a Denny on Gt Ancoats Street (where Sarah is living at time of marriage).
I had tried to get 289 Gt Ancoats St in an address search in 1881 to no avail- won't show that address!
Lo and behold, can find it now in 1851 because of that Denny search and it is a Baker's shop :D Now whether or not it was 20 yrs later when she got married I don't know but what a coincidence if not.
Hope that that makes sense and that it is of interest - I love all these intricate little bits that weave into a bigger picture.
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Still trying to digest all this, and the family are demanding some attention ::) Something's bothering me (not just my wife and son!) I'll get back to you, have a good sleep!
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I am trying to find Sarah Dobson ???
Family Search - Sarah Dobson in Manchester with parents Richard and Catharine. (
The place of Christening ties in nicely with the place of marriage- Cathedral, Manchester -
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Yes it does.... another visit to the library ??? :o 8)
I'm just wandering around Ancoats between 1851-1881 ;D
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Quite a coincidence too that Thomas married a Sarah, and his mother and father were Sarah and Thomas. I guess they were common names at the time, still are really.
Could this be their marriage? (FreeBMD)
JONES Sarah Market Drayton 18 205
ROBINSON Thomas Market Drayton 18 205
I wish I could pin down Sarah Dobson's dob, so far she's born in 1844, 1845, and 1846!!!! Maybe she wasn't sure herself! :)