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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: pistonbroke on Thursday 11 June 09 12:42 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have a marriage cert & a death cert that have different parents names. The informant on the death cert is his brother so he must have known their parents names. The children of Thomas & Margaret were named Samuel b1865, Hugh b1867, Malcolm b1869, Janet b1871, Sarah b1873, George b 1882. Samuel & Sarah are the names on the death cert so if naming patterns are followed.... Thomas was born in Ireland so I guess I'll never know for sure. I'm confused why he would put down wrong names when he married.
Would it be ok to assume that Samuel & Sarah are the right parents?
Vicki
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Wow that is confusing.
Firstly I'd be tempted to think that one of the certs is incorrect, despite the fact that they seem to match up.
Do you have any other census info at all, or any other certs for the family that might help prove addresses?
So just for me to get this straight:
1865
Thomas Harris - labourer - parents Robert Harris and Elizabeth Sinclair
married
Margaret Black
1886
Thomas Harris died. Wife Margaret Black.
Parents Samuel Harris and Sarah Haggin
Informant brother George Harris.
I can't make out the addresses and as I'm at work can't spend much time playing around!
:)
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Just a comment.
I have seen a Kentucky Death Cert where the deceased and wife was listed as the deceased Parents.
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Hi Vicki
I would not assume they are the same person. Too many differences and even Thomas's ages on two certificates show one born 1841 and one born 1843. A bit of leeway on ages now and again is sometimes explainable but if the parents names don't match either I would be very suspicious.
Have you considered the possibility that the two Thomas's were cousins born about the same time? That would explain quite a few of the similar names as families often used the same names?
Do any of the addresses shown match anything you already know for sure?
Milly
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Hi Rachel, Biker & Milly
Thanks for your input. I could only find 1 Thomas Harris & Margaret Black marriage so it hadn't occurred to me that they could be different people. Guess I have to keep looking .
Thanks again
Vicki
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Hi Vicki,
I could only find 1 Thomas Harris & Margaret Black marriage
Just checking I have not missed something.....Can I just ask - were you specifically looking for a marriage of Thomas Harris to Margaret Black? If so, where did you get the name Black from?
If you have evidence that the mother of the children is definitely Margaret Harris formerly Black that sheds a slightly different light on things (just as confusing of course!!)
Milly ;D ;D
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Hi Milly
Yes Margaret Black is on marriage & death cert for their children.
Vicki
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Sorry Vicki - just trying to get this straight in my head.
You said you were looking for marriage of Thomas Harris and Margaret Black - and this was the only one you found.... So......
Did you have the name Black BEFORE you found that particular marriage certificate or only AFTER?
You say Margaret Black appears on children's death cert...You said the brother was the informant...does Margaret appear as parent? Does it have Margaret Harris formerly Black?
It's probably perfectly simple and I am just getting confused ??? ??? ??? ???
Milly
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Hi Milly
The info was originally from Hugh Harris marriage cert
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Did Thomas have a brother Samuel who married, if so what is his wife's name?
ditto for Thomas son Samuel
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I don't know if he had a brother Samuel, only know about George cause he was the informant on Thomas's death cert. His son Samuel died at 8 months of age.
Vicki
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Why do you think the Death Cert is for the same Thomas as married Margaret Black?
Oh wife's name on Death Cert...dur
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Hi
Would it be ok to assume that Samuel & Sarah are the right parents?
Vicki
Perhaps find out when this marriage occurred.
I'm more inclined to go by the marriage Cert for parents name.
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Thanks - I see where Margaret Black fits in now.... ;D ;D
1865 MARRIAGE THOMAS HARRIS (age 24 - born 1841?) AND MARGARET BLACK (age 18)
Father Robert Harris (Ag Lab)
Mother Elizabeth Sinclair
address 29 Brown Street, Glasgow
occ: Iron Moulders Labourer
1867/1868 BIRTH OF HUGH HARRIS (aged 29 on his marriage Cert)
is there a birth cert? presumably would name Thomas and Margaret Black as parents.
1897 MARRIAGE HUGH HARRIS
Father Thomas Harris (Iron Moulder deceased)
Mother Margaret Dunlop formerly Harris originally BLACK
address 412 Garscube Road, Glasgow
1886 - DEATH THOMAS HARRIS
Iron moulder aged 43 (born 1843?)
Informant George Harris (Brother)(129 Garbraid St Glasgow)
Father Samuel HARRIS (farmer - deceased)
Mother Sarah Harris originally Haggin (deceased)
address: 541 Garscube Road, Glasgow
So - Margaret Harris married Thomas Black in 1865, and had a son Hugh (in 1867/8) who marries in 1897. Hugh names his parents Thomas & Margaret. Thomas names his parents Robert and Elizabeth.
BUT in 1886- There is a death cert for a Thomas Harris - who was also married to a Margaret Black. informant is his brother George - GEORGE gives Thomas' parents names as Samuel and Sarah. NB the age on this is two years younger than on the marriage cert
??? ??? ???
POSSIBLILITES...
a) there are two Thomas Harris and they both married a Margaret Black (BUT you only found ONE marriage certificate. Seems unlikely but not impossible. Is there another death cert anywhere?
b) They are the same Thomas Harris but he gave wrong names for parents on marriage cert. These same names appear on son Hugh's marriage cert so seems more likely to be correct.
c) They are the same Thomas Harris but GEORGE gave the wrong parents names on the death cert.
....WHY would he do this? Perhaps Thomas Harris is not really his full brother, perhaps they had different parents and George didn't know?
NB: ADDRESS is given as541 Garscube Road (although not same number house as that shown for Hugh's marriage(at 412).
d) Registrar was having a senior moment and just wrote it all down wrong!
??? ???
It is all very odd. It's look like Robert and Elizabeth is more likely to be right as that is what Thomas himself believed - but there is certainly some confusion on George's part about who Thomas' parents were.
Is there a marriage for a Samuel Harris and Sarah Haggin?
Do you have birth cert for George Harris (the brother?)
Milly ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)