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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: RCB on Wednesday 10 June 09 15:44 BST (UK)
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Hello - I'm just trying to tidy up a few loose ends, the families of a couple who crossed the Severn to settle in Newport, their son even became Mayor of Newport in 1898.
Edwin Greenland married Eleanor Alway in Bath 1842, they already had a son George the eventual mayor, and were living in Newport 1841 census.
With Alway not being that common I think I have just found Eleanors baptism 1817 Bath Abbey, daughter of Richard and Mary, so I'm looking to confirm that. The 1841 census isn't very helpful, 1851 shows a Richard 64? Mary 53 in Stogursey, a long way from Bath.
Edwin Greenland born about 1815? gives his place of birth as Bath or Keynsham, no idea about parents names.
Yes I could order the marriage certificate, but this isn't direct family, this is one of those off shoots via in-laws.
happy if you can help cheers Fred
Future mayor George Greenland crosses the Severn to marry Helen Simmons in Bath registry office in 1862, so the Greenlands or Alway's? must still be in Bath.
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Hi,
Interesting to note that on UKBMD the birth registry for (George) 1839 reads 'Boy son of Edward (Greenland) mmn Alway. So which is it? Edwin as per the marriage entry in 1842 or Edward?
E
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Bonjour Liz in France in my best Del Boy franch.
At least you have George registered he doesn't show Free BMD. This is them in 1841
1841 census
Address - St Woollos, Newport.
Head - Edwin Greenland age 26, labourer.
Wife - Elin (Eleanor) Greenland age 20?(24)
Son - George Greenland age 20 months.
There is an Edwin's death registered in Bath 1838, I wondered if it was Edwin son of Edwin?
Since I last posted I have found that the Helen Simmonds who marries our George married her cousin? Helen's mother is Mary Ann Alway, she married John Simmonds 1838 in Bath. In 1849 a Diana Alway married George Parsons in Bath, so the Alway family were in Bath, but are lost in the census. mis-spelt or just missed.
Thanks for bothering to look, we've got thunder here in the Forest of Dean, it tripped my electric off about an hour ago. cheers fred
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Hi Fred,
Your french is as good as mine and if it is any consolation, it is pretty stormy here in SW France too, though not raining at the moment.
It is possible that Edwin was the son of Edwin and Eleanor as it would fit timewise. There is a birth entry of 4/1839 Bath for Male Greenland at FreeBMD. They obviously could not think of a name in time.
I have a vague recollection of the name Allways or Always being connected with a photography business in Bath going back more years than I care to remember.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
Best wishes,
Elizabeth
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Me again Liz - That recollection of a photography business strikes a chord. My mother in law, George Greenland was her grandfather, well she has a fantastic family photo album, well it would be fantastic but there is hardly a name to go with any of the photos, all well over a hundred years old, 150 years possibly. People still do it, don't bother recording names, the occation and place, and then the photo becomes useless.
I was in Normandy looking for a cottage before Christmas, a mate sold his cottage and wants to buy something bigger, you get a lot more for your money in France. cheers fred
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Hi Fred,
Quite agree about the photographs. I have a pile of them taken in a Bath studio and thought I had identified the subjects only to find that another part of the family lived there too. Now I am totally confused.
With regard to property over here, yes you probably would get more for your money but with the rate of exchange, albeit improving, you will need a lot more now to buy a property, than a year ago. Still wouldn't come back though.
Best wishes,
Liz
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I have some more information on George Greenland and would like to know more about the photo album.
This is research I am doing for someone else I would be happy to be e-mailed on
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There is an Edwin GREENLAND Baptised at St John. Keynshasm 18 March 1807
Parents James and Susannah.
I know there were Greenlands living at Newton St Loe and Keynsham is not that far, I have walked it in the past.
There is also a Baptism for an Eleanor ALWAY baptised at Bath Abbey 20 Oct 1817
Parents Richard and Mary
Father a Butcher living at Orange Court
If this is of any help
TonyE
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Thanks, do you have any other children born to Richard and Mary Alway? It is probably the same Eleanor as she married at Bath Abbey and was described as being 82 years old when she died in 1900.
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Hi Charlotte
Using www.freereg.org.uk I can't find any other children for Richard and Mary, in fact none in or near Bath at all.
That's not to say there were none, perhaps the Registers are not transcribed for this source yet.
TonyE
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My Greenlands hail from Bath, but - mysteriously - appear to have been Udells, before leaving Bath in 1845 for Chelsea, where Abraham, Martha and their son, John, changed their surnames to Greenland.
I have been looking for a link between Abraham and Martha Udell and the small number of Greenlands in Bath around the 1830s.
Abraham and Martha - married at Bath Abbey in 1836, had a total of seven children, all of whom died in infancy with the exception of John, who appears to have been born out of wedlock.
There may be a link between Abraham Udell - a plaster/painter - and one family of Greenlands engaged in a similar trade in Bath the 1830s and 1840s.
Martha's maiden name was Hicks - she appears to have been born in nearby Marshfield (Glos), where there was a family of farmers named Greenland.
Abraham was born in nearby Frome to a family of weavers. There are Greenlands in Frome as well.
Any help in solving the Greenland/Udell connection would be REALLY welcome!
Regards
Rohan Greenland
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I have looked at the 1841 census and believe the George listed is Edwin's brother and not his son; unless you know of another 20 month old Agricultural worker.
By the way were was Edwin's son George registered?.
My link is a bit tenuous George Parson Greenland's daugther Dorothy mares James John Wright in 1922 on the death of Ada Tryphina [nee Whitburn]; my 1st cousin twice removed.
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Hi June,
Welcome to Rootschat.
You have picked up on something we missed, although I don't think I looked it up. George was 20 years old and a labourer and living with Edwin and Elin Greenland in St Woollos, Newport, as you point out.
The birth registration that I found for 'Boy son of Edward' Greenland with mmn as Alway was in Bath, district of Lyncombe & Widcombe. This boy may have been George or even Edwin as that would match the death of an Edwin Greenland in 1838 Bath aged less than 1 year. He was not with them in 1841 either.
Maybe George Greenland the mayor was Edwin's little brother after all and not his son. That's genealogy for you, full of surprises.
Elizabeth
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Hi all ,
I was browsing the internet by chance and came across these postings.
I believe that I am possibly descended from george greenland who was Mayor of Newport, Monmouthshire at the turn of the last century. I believe he owned Greenlands Laundry in Newport and also Greenlands Arcade in Newport town. I believe he had a son James who resided in pillgwelly in Newport in 1899 and was a master laundryman.His son Wiliam Alfred Greenland aged 24 (also a master laundryman) was married in Pillgwelly, Newport in 1899 to an Anne Maria Pearce 22. I know little about the Greenland side of the family prior to this however. They had 3 Children, James, Zena and Phillipa. James was my grandfather and would have been born around 1908-9. Zena and Phillipa lived in Gloucester for most of their lives and died as spinsters.
I would be interested in hearing about any other information that anyone may know about my family history.
Adam Greenland
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Hi Adam,
Welcome to Rootschat, a great place for help on genealogy.
James William Greenland's birth was registered Newport 4th qtr 1907. His siblings were Grace Irene reg.1/1902, she died 2/1913 aged 11. Phyllis Mary 4/1904 or 2/1905, (probably the first one) and Zena reg. 1/1911 all at Newport. He married Constance G Thomas 3/1933 Newport.
Their father was William Alfred Greenland a laundry proprietor born Dawley reg. 3/1875 Madeley, Shropshire.
Their mother was Annie Maria Pearce birth reg. 1/1877 Newport. Her sister Clarice was living with Annie and her family in 1911. She was born 4/1885.
William Alfred Greenland married Annie Maria Pearce 3rd qtr 1899 Newport.
1881 William is with his grandparents Mark and Elizabeth Chappell in St Woollos.
William had many siblings including Agnes Emily c1874 Bilston Staffs, Florence Ada c 1877 Dawley, Clare Helen c 1879 Dawley, Alice Elizabeth c1881 Dawley, Gertrude Mary c1886 Dawley, James Edwin 1887 Newport and Beatrice Maud c 1890 Newport.
His parents were James Greenland and Elizabeth Emily Chappell who married 4/1872 Newport.
Back with the rest later, it's tea tiime.
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth!
Thank you so much for your responce and I have to say that I'm truly Amazed!
James and Constance were my grandparents, they had 3 children, Jayne, Richard and Robert, My father was Richard.
I am absolutely fascinated at what you've told me so far. I have the original marriage certificate for William Alfred and Anne Maria Pearce on August 29th 1899 residing at Handsworth Street, Newport and it states his father as James Greenland.
I found a reference for James Edwin who was sadly killed in the first world war at the age of 33 on 28th August 1918 (ref Newports war dead)
I cant wait to hear about any other information you may have!
kind regards
Adam
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Hi Adam,
Tea drunk and chickens fed so now I am ready to go again.
1881 census shows James and Elizabeth in Finger Road, Dawley, Shropshire with Agnes, Florence, Clara and Alice. James is a Patt. nail machinist born Newport and Elizabeth was born Malmesbury, Wilts.
1871 census shows James living with his widowed mother Eleanor a housekeeper, in Newport. She was born c1819 Bath Somerset. Also there were siblings William born circa 1842 and Mary J born c 1850 Newport.
1861 census shows Ellen born 1818 Bath, a widow, George born c 1840 Bath, William 1843 born Pillgwenlly, Mary 1850 Newport, James 1852 Newport and Sarah 1854 Newport.
1851 census we have Eleanor's husband Edwin born c 1804 Keynsham, Somerset, a labourer, Ellen 1818 Bath, George 1840 Bath labourer, William 1843 Pillgwenlly and Mary J 1850 Newport.
1841 census at St Woollos we have Edwin 1815, Ellen 1821 and George 1821. All born outside county of Monmouthshire
That brings us back to the earlier postings which give useful baptisms and marriage dates.
I will see what else I can find but if you have any specific questions please do ask.
A couple of useful sites apart from this one are http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search and http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/search These will give you the civil registrations for birth, marriages and deaths and the church records for baptisms, marriages and burials although not all records are on the latter one yet.
Hope this gives you food for thought.
Best wishes,
Elizabeth
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Most interested to hear of the Newport Greenlands and their link with Bath. My Greenlands originated in Bath (Frome before that), but appear to have been Udells. My grandfather - however - James John Greenland (his father was James John Udall Greenland) said our family originated in Newport, Monmouthshire, but to date have found no link whatsoever. I suspect that he may have simply heard about the mayor in Newport and assumed that there was a link. However, there might still be a connection between my Bath Udell/Greenlands and the Bath Greenlands. Abraham Udell was a painter/labourer/plasterer and may - purely speculation - have worked with a family of Greenlands also active in this trade. The family of Udells appear to have changed their name when they left Bath for Chelsea in 1844 or early 1845. Very keen to hear from anyone who may have any further information, ideas, suggestions about solving this riddle!
Rohan James Greenland
Canberra
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This is my first post so I may be going in completely the wrong diirection...but there was post from someone I picked up completely at random from a person who was a relative of George Greenland, onetime Mayor of Newport.
He was my husband's Gt.Grandfather on his mother's side. I have copies of the picture of him in the boardroom of the Principality Bldg Soc. - and of his son Herbert Greenland who was also a director, who was my father's grandfather of course.
Plus scanned copies of local papers mentioning him.
If I am reaching the right place please come back with any queries.
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I know it is a long shot as it has been about 10 years since you put your post on here but I am very interested to hear about the photographs of George Greenland the mayor. He was my paternal great grandfather. Having recently taken up the family tree research, I’m trying to fill in gaps and pictures are always fascinating.
Thanks