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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: eadygirl on Monday 08 June 09 15:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Looking for info on the Lowther family of Orcheston St George. Our family descends from Gorges Paulin Lowther b 1792 Lyon France but are more interested in the family of his son....
Gorges Macdonald Lowther b 1827 d. 1880 Amesbury - a police magistrate who spent some time in Australia in the 1860s. He was first married to Eliza Baddeley Welsh in 1857 (2 children, died in infancy?), then Sarah Alice Steel in 1863 ( in Melbourne, Australia) - 5 daughters - Edith, Alice, Blanche, Mary and Winifred Julia. Winifred Julia was my husband's grandmother. The family life revolved around Orcheston St George at all times, despite them buzzing off to Aus.
I can fill in some of the gaps, and some of the siblings of Winifred Julia - but others may be able to help. Well, I hope so!
Thanks - in anticipation! :D
Liz
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Hi Liz, there was only one Lowther family in Wiltshire in 1851 census.......
HO107/1845/f023/sched 001. Orcheston St George, The Rectory. All surnames Lowther
Georges Paulin h, m, 57, Rector of Orcheston St George, GLS Clifton
Elizabeth, w, m, 50, SAL Morville
Pauline, d, u, 27, MDX Kensington
Rosealia, d, u, 13, WIL Orcheston St George
The household also contained a number of servants.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Great to hear from you! Thanks so much for spending a little time on my behalf.
I now have the Lowthers of Orcheston St George well covered by the censuses from 1841 to 1881, where Gorge Macdonald Lowther's father Gorges Paulin Lowther lived until his death in 1881 aged 89. The family came and went, Gorges Macdonald Lowther was there in 1871, probably after his stint in Australia as a magistrate (I have lots of info on his time here in Australia). He died in 1880 in Amesbury,Wilts aged 53. I guess I could get his death cert, but any other clues apart from that as to where he might be buried?
I also have a record of his going to Oxford from Oxford Alumni 1500-1886
Lowther - Gorges Macdonald. 1S [first son?] Gorges P of Longford co.Derby, cler[cleric?] Queens College, matric.7 March 1845 aged 20.
The above dates are a bit skewiff by a couple of years - your thoughts?
If he became a magistrate by the 1860s, would he have needed extra qualifications? If so, where should I look? What did he do after he returned to Wiltshire until his death?
The Lowthers were a large family, lots died young but they seemed to have been somewhat important. Gorges Macdonald L's sister Rosalie married Charles Henry Spencer Churchill, grandson of the 5th duke of Marlborough.
Is a nice big can of worms with none coming out to play! Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks Dave :D
all best, Liz
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While I was meandering about with Google I found this:
/www.flickr.com/photos/13930545@N03/1575257011/#comment72157610887622589
A couple of pictures of the family.
Beth
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Gorges Macdonald Lowther's death was registered in Amesbury district as was his father's the following year. Orcheston St George comes under this district so it is likely that both are buried there. Record office burials appear to go up to 1989 so I'll have a look next time I'm there.
Dave
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Hi Beth and Dave,
Re the photos Beth - thankyou very much! - I have seen them before & quite forgotten about them. In fact have one of them in a family album - the one you sent me a link to. I'm a bit confused by the caption on flickr as the older woman is definitely Sarah Alice Lowther (nee Steele) - I have quite a few photos of her taken at a variety of ages. I can only presume the young woman is her daughter Edith, as her sibling Alice Lowther died as an infant in Victoria in 1866. I have a photo of the other sister, Winifred Julia. I shall investigate the Lowther/Linton link further!
And Dave, thanks very much for your kind offer to look at the burial records. Every little bit helps!
Thanks to you both,
cheers, Liz
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We're in luck with the Orcheston St George burials........
3 April 1880 Gorges Macdonald Lowther of Orcheston St George, age 55
30 Apr 1881 Gorges Paulin Lowther, Rector of Orcheston St George, age 89
Dave
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Hi Liz,
Mary Pauline Lowther, daughter of Gorges and Sarah Alice married Frank Robert Claverhouse Dundee on 4 May 1897 at Launceston in Tasmania. Frank was my gg grandmother's nephew. The only info that I have about them came from a woman named Phillis Dundee (formerly Farquar) who married their son, Florance Frank Claverhouse Dundee (known as Lal). At the time (1991), Phillis was in a nursing home in Tasmania and she dictated some info to a nurse for me. Her nephew's family also wrote to me.
Frank and Mary had three children, Lal, May, and Dorothy. Lal and Phyllis had one child which died as a baby, May married a Mr Madden and was living in Melbourne in 1991 aged 90, Dorothy married Stanley Clark from Melbourne and they lived in Darwin. Neither May nor Dorothy had any children either, so I am afraid Mary Pauline's line finished there.
Mary Pauline and Frank divorced at some stage and Frank remarried to a Veronica Cooper. From one of the letters: "Lal's mother lived in Melbourne with May, so Lal used to arrive every Mother's Day under protest in a suit. That's the only time he visited Melbourne, and would go home the next day. ;D Mrs Dundee never remarried, but lived to a very old age and died in Melbourne." I have just had a look at the electoral rolls, and Mary Pauline appears at least up to 1954 at 69 Millswyn Street, South Yarra, when she would have been 86. She died in 1963 and is buried at the Springvale cemetery. http://www.deceasedsearch.com/page-o3980269-en.html I am also pretty sure that May was actually "Mairnie Agnes" - she died in 1995. I have never looked into this family very much, but might be time to look at some Tassie indexes for the children's proper names.
There are a few Lowther mentions at http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ including Frank and Mary's marriage announcement.
I will have a read through the letters and see if there is anything else of interest for you.
Debra
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Regarding Lowthers in Tasmania and answering the post on flickr mentioned above - Gorges Markham Lowther was the son of William St George Pendruddocke Lowther and Helen Wordsworth Spofforth. He was born in 1868 in Glamorgan, Wales. He married Edith, eldest daughter of Gorges McDonald Lowther in 1893 at Sydney and they later settled in Tasmania.
Their respective fathers were brothers, so Gorges Markham and Edith were first cousins. William St George was baptised at Orcheston in 1833, and Gorges McDonald was baptised at Longford in Derby in 1824. (If you are looking for him on the IGI, he is under the name Gorgy MacDonald Lowther)
William St George Lowther and Helen arrived in Melbourne with their 10 children in Feb 1882 on the "Potosi", and another daughter Margaret Pauline was born in 1883 in Tasmania. If you put the name Lowther in the search box here http://eheritage.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/ you will see that they are all buried in Tas. William St G's obit (1921) should be available to read soon on http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/
You just have to go back and connect with the family shown here http://thepeerage.com/p3193.htm
Debra :D
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Hi Debra,
Thanks so much for all that Lowther/Dundee info! I've just finished cobbling it to our Lowther tree which is going to get completely confusing with first cousins marrying. It's a really interesting family and I'd love to know just what motivated them to come to Australia from what seems like a very comfortable life in Orcheston. I know that our Gorges came here as a magistrate for a short time, perhaps to further his career with a far flung posting? I did some research at the archives in Melbourne and have a lot of info on him. I find it amusing that my own ggg grandfather was eking out a miserable existence at a mine in Gorges magistrates patch.
What of the Dundee family? What was Frank's occupation and where had he/parents come from?
I tackled thepeerage.com some months ago and drew up a family tree based on its written lineage of the Lowthers. I ended up sticking together about 5 A4 sheets which makes it more readable but a daunting task to transfer. I keep getting it out and putting it away again. Def. one for a rainy day!
Look forward to hearing from you,
thanks again!
cheers, Liz
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Hi Liz, When Rev. William St G Lowther emigrated with his family in 1882 he was Rector of St George in Cardiff, Wales. There might be some more info in his obit when it comes online, but I know of other clergymen around that time who were invited by the church to settle in Australia. As for Frank Dundee, he came out alone in 1887, aged 20 - he had cousins who were starting to take up land and settle in Tasmania so I think he just followed them out. They were all young men, well connected but not well heeled, and they saw a better future here than in England. They came from a strong military background on both sides of the family, but were the first generation to go for something different.
The surname is Dundee - Frank was given Claverhouse as a middle name, and sometimes hyphenated the two, but this was just an affectation. ::) The family's origins were French, the name originally being Donde, with not a drop of Scots blood in sight.
(My great grandparents - Dundee George was Frank's cousin)
https://200years.auspost.com.au/html/loan/archive/view_photo/844/page/1
I have been having a look at the Lowther lineage and the best that I have found on the net which seems to bring everything else I have found together is at http://www.stirnet.com/main/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=79&startUrl=http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/ll/lowther3.htm You can pay to have access to the info, but if you are really quick you can copy and paste before the main screen goes off (don't tell them I said that!) In particular this bit:
"Gorges Lowther of Kilrue, later of Hampton Hall (b 1769, d 23.02.1854) BLG1952 mentions only Gorges's marriage to (and children by) Julia Huntingford but, apart from a later marriage, BLG1886 also reports a first marriage to ... m1. (1791) Catherine Adeline Pauline de Mont Brison (d 05.03.1792, dau of Cayent de Mont Brison) (a) Gorges Paulin Lowther (b 25.02.1792, rector of Orcheston, prebendary of Salisbury) (BLG = Burke's Landed Gentry)"
Catherine died shortly after Gorges was born, and then his father remarried to Julia. You would have to follow this up and confirm it to make sure you have the right mother. Gorges' 3rd wife was also named Julia (Trevelyan) and you will find them at Hampton Hall on the 1851 census. He says he is 66, when he was actually 82. ;D
Debra
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My name is Joelle - my father's sister married Henry Trevor Dundee, who was the son of Frank Robert Claverhouse Dundee. I have been researching the Dundees for a while and have heaps of information. They are an intriguing family. If you want more information, please email me because its too much to include here.
Moderator Comment: email address removed as per RootsChat Policy. Please use our secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
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Hi Joelle,
Great to hear from you, especially as I didn't know about Henry! My gg grandmother was Harriet DUNDEE, daughter of William DUNDEE and Elizabeth GIBSON. I will PM you so that we can exchange info.
Debra
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Hi Joelle & Debra,
Lovely to hear from you.
I tried to send you a PM (personal message) Joelle but I don't think you can view this until you have logged 3 posts, so get posting!!
all best,
Liz
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Hi Eadygirl,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm new to this site and not sure how to use it properly. I will post this and then another and see if this helps.
Joelle
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My third posting hopefully.
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Hi Joelle,
Have your PM and replied to your email address ! Thanks for your message. Debra might like to join in too! This Lowther/Dundee tree could do with a bit of work!
cheers,
Liz
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Hi
I live in Orcheston and this is a list of Lowther's remembered
Chambre Brabason Ponsonby - Rector - Memorial
Eliza Sophie Memorial
Frances Memorial
George Memorial
George Gorge Beresford - Memorial
George Pantin Rector
I am sure that this is where some of them are buried. It is just that some of the headstones etc are so badly worn it is difficult to say who is buried there but I will have another go at trying to work out what the headstones say.
I have been trying to make a record of the people who have live in Orcheston and there were gaps for some of the Lowthers but I think i may now be able to fill some of those gaps
Try looking at the website of Mandy and Duncan Ball. They have extensively photographed many of the headstones etc in Wiltshire
St George's church is now redundant and only open occasionally. i was there last Saturday and will be there again in a few weeks when I will have a closer look. From what I can see on the photo I think it says something about being buried in Lisbon but will check it out.
Maureen
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At least one family of this line survived in Melbourne. My grandfather's brothers are all dead but I am know my mother's uncle James had 2 sons who were in Melbourne - they must be in their 60's now.
In the 1960's the Lowther family were in Melbourne.
Something must have happened - as my grandfather changed his from Gorges Paulin Lowther to Robert George Lowther, and great uncle Jack was actually B. Brabason P Lowther. I remember visiting him in Box Hill.
My grandmother told me a story of when the direct family died out in Tasmania - a huge shipment of family goods turned up he set fire to the lot - only a dispatch case ( locked ) and a few items minor survived the bonfire : apparently there was also a huge iron bound family bible......... My grandfather's words were such : I want nothing to do with the family.
FYI . I was looking for names for my yet to be born child when came across this thread.
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Hi cbanhidy, whoever you may be!
Thanks so much for your post, I hope Joelle gets it too. It would be great to chat to you via a PM (personal message) but newbies to rootschat have to post 3 messages before you can do this, so just drop us a line and I'll reply and again etc. I certainly owe Joelle an email or 2 and it would be wonderful to clear up this big family mystery. So many people have been so helpful (thank you all!) but it just doesn't move us forward too much in finding out the whys and wherefores of the Lowther folk of Wiltshire's Orcheston St George, Tasmania, Melbourne or Sydney.
As you've probably read, they're not my family, they're my husbands lot, Winifred Julia Lowther being his grandmother. He's not particularly interested but I'm fascinated and am probably working on too many trees at once.
So sad to hear of the family rift and name changes (why????) and of all those wonderful family things being burnt, in anger by the sound of it. I think it was quite common back in the 60s. The "old guard" of the family could be quite repressive, my own great-grandmother certainly scared the life out of me as a child in the 60s and I don't think my mother had much love for her either.( I remember being told of her death while in the bath and I just held my nose and sunk under water so no-one noticed that I didn't cry. To me, she was a creepy horrible old lady in a long black dress.) Antiques were junk - off to charity or burnt - to be replaced by cool Parker teak tables and sideboards. Family memorabilia was just fuel on the fire. Some of the Lowther things do survive but we need to chat about that.
I hope you find a baby name. A very English colleague told me you should choose a name that would be just WONDERFUL when prefaced with "Sir' or "Lady" - something smart for a first name and a sentimental family name (which could also be a surname from your family) for the second name. Sage advice which we followed.
Look forward to hearing from you!
All best,
Liz
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My first post after stumbling on this site whilst googling my grandfather Frank Robert Claverhouse Dundee. My mother is the daughter of Frank and Veronica Cooper. Mum was the only child of this relationship however talks of having an older brother and sister from Frank's side however she has had no contact with them (to my knowledge) since Frank's death in 1951 which was about when she left Ulverstone as an 18 year old and moved to Darwin (eventually) and married my father in about 1954. From this union there were two sons (1 deceased) and three daughters with another 10 in the next generation. Mum is still with us (78) and has a step sister still in Ulverstone (Pat) who is in her late 80s. I have an adopted Chinese daughter who is developing an interest in family linkages so will be more than happy to provide extra information. I have a feeling that Veronica may have been Frank's third wife or he may have been Veronica's third - I must check with mum.
regards
Ian
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Frank Robert Calverhouse Dundee was married to May Pauline Dundee by 1916, that had at least two girls. Frank abandoned May & the children as he had taken up with a married woman Myrtle Claire Kate McDonald nee Edwards who he employed as a governess, while her husband was off fighting in the war. McDonald divorced his wife Myrtle Claire Kate McDonald in 1920 after returning from the war. At this stage I have no knowledge what happened with the relationship between Dundee & McDonald.