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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: yelkcub on Monday 08 June 09 11:07 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with this page of SHORTHAND found in a notebook dated 1876? I realise it is no easy task, as I'm told that the lack of lines makes decipherment difficult. Also, the xerox copy I have (from a relative in Australia) is indistinct and makes it impossible to distinguish thick from thin strokes, which apparently affects the meaning. However, if someone is able to attempt the translation - even if only of a word or phrase here and there - I would be grateful.
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Hi Yelkcub
I don't suppose you have any idea of the context of this, do you? As it is phonetic, it is really hard to know where to start, unless there is a clue as to the subject. I don't seem to be able to get a hook on it at all. It looks like Pitman, but there are some peculiarities, so I am wondering if it is one of the various eclectic styles which developed. Problem is that shorthand writers tend to develop their own style and shortcuts which makes it difficult for others to read. Also, as you say, the lack of lines makes it even harder.
Interestingly, the use of so many vowels would imply that either it was written by a learner, or it was not written at speed but more to ensure that it could be read in the future. When an experienced shorthand writer is writing at speed, vowels (the little dots and dashes) are seldom used unless the writer feels the need to clarify a word for later ease of transcription.
Regards,
Greensleeves
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Hello Greensleeves
... and many thanks for your reply. I only know that the notebook containing this page belonged to a great great uncle who was a successful businessman (and consular agent fro France and Switzerland) in Adelaide. His business affairs included shipping and property. It may be a non-standard form of shorthand, which he may have learned either recently (making him a learner, as you suggest), or earlier in the century when, following his studies at the Sorbonne, he spent time at a commercial college in Hamburg. There are, as you will have seen, one or two phrases in longhand in the document (one reads 'Mrs Robinson') - he had a sister back in London who had married a Robinson - so I presume the shorthand is in English. The rest of the notebook's contents are perfectly legible longhand. On the page next to the one you see is a rather charming pencil drawing of two koalas up the proverbial gum tree.
Thanks again for your interest - it's much appreciated
Best wishes from Cornwall
Ian
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Alas Ian, but I can make neither head nor tail of it. It is so frustrating because it looks like Pitman shorthand, but it is not (or none that I know of, anyway!). I think it might be Lindsley or Pernin, neither of which gained a considerable amount of popularity, though I could be wrong. So sorry I could not be of help,
Regards,
Greensleeves
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Hello Greensleeves -
... sincere thanks for having done your best to decipher this notebook extract. The system of shorthand may even be one my ancestor picked up in his days at commercial college in Hamburg - who knows? It may well have to remain a mystery - but that's genealogy I suppose.
With best wishes from rainy Cornwall
Ian
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Hi Yelkcub
Such a pity because it would seem that, whatever he wrote, it was not intended for anyone else to read..... so I am assuming it would have been something interesting. You never know, someone else on RC might be able to decipher it - there is such a wealth of experience on here.
Sorry to hear you have rain in Cornwall - I'm not quite sure what it is doing here in Mid Wales at the moment as it is dark; but as it is dog-walking time, I feel I am about to find out!
Regards,
Greensleeves
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Interestingly, the use of so many vowels would imply that either it was written by a learner, or it was not written at speed but more to ensure that it could be read in the future. When an experienced shorthand writer is writing at speed, vowels (the little dots and dashes) are seldom used unless the writer feels the need to clarify a word for later ease of transcription.
Maybe he used the vowels because there were no lines on the paper and so no way to indicate them by position.
So annoyingly like Pitman but not quite! I have a friend who is a retired shorthand teacher - I'll ask her if she can shed any light.
Christine
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If you look in Wik**dia under 'shorthand' there is an interesting little section showing examples of various shorthand types. Apart from Gregg, they all look uncannily like Pitman. Hope your contact will be able to throw a bit of light on the subject, Christine, because it's been driving me bonkers!
Regards
Greensleeves
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Thank you - I really appreciate your continued interest, and hope that there is someone out there in this multi-talented community of ours who might be able to crack the code.
The content is potentially valuable to me, as it might hold clues to the origins of a family that has proved to be really difficult to trace. In the 19th century, from 1861 onwards, there was a good deal of litigation about a trust fund. The fact that James Page (in whose notebook the shorthand is found) is 1872 mentioned (in longhand) Mrs Robinson could be significant, as both James and Mrs Robinson, James's sister in England, were claimants to the trust.
We continue to hope ... and thanks again for your efforts
Ian
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Hi Yelkcub,
I have been trying to decipher these notes for you as it definitely looks like Pitman's shorthand but there are some peculiarities. It is not an advanced form of shorthand; rather, it is quite basic so one would think it would be relatively easy. It's never easy trying to read another person's shorthand as we all develop our own style and shortcuts. It's even harder because I can't make out any heavy strokes and Pitman's consists of both light and heavy strokes for certain letters, phonetically. I'll see what I can do but make no promises.
Let's hope c-side's teacher friend can help too.
Regards,
CP (in a freezing, icy Melbourne)
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It's not so hot in 'sunny' Britain either, today!
It's a very long time since I used any shorthand and even longer since I learned it and, like you say, it becomes as individual as handwriting. I also used to rely on my memory a lot!! It might be easier if we had some knowledge of the subject matter so a little 'guesswork' could come into play.
I'm seeing my teacher friend tonight - fingers crossed.
C
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Hi C -
Indeed - fingers crossed, and thanks for showing this to your teacher friend. Sadly, I have no clue whatsoever as to the contents of my ancestor's notes: I just hope it was nothing 'questionable' that he didn't want the rest of his family to read! I would blush for him
Ian
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Oh dear, I now have one very frustrated friend. She hardly spoke a word tonight - too busy with the shorthand but so far unsuccessfully.
Like the rest of us on this thread she says that at first glance it looks as if its going to be easy but when she tried to apply Pitman phonetics to the outlines she wasn’t getting any words.
One thing she did suggest though, in her career she has taught three different versions of Pitman - each one more streamlined than the one before. She thinks the shorthand has been very neatly written but some of the outlines are very cumbersome and therefore wonders whether this is an even earlier version.
Last seen heading for home with the intention of looking further into this so do not despair yet!
C
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Meant to add - I would imagine that if your ancestor wrote this in shorthand and the rest in longhand there is a good chance he did want to keep it secret.
Never mind - if it's questionable it'll add some colour to his personality and we won't tell anyone ;D
C
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Whilst I am sorry that your friend did not manage to crack the code, C, I am somewhat relieved that it is not just me! I have been a shorthand writer for over 40 years and at one time used to take verbatim shorthand. Although now very rusty speed-wise, I still use shorthand to make notes for myself at meetings etc, so it continues to be of use to me.
So it is frustrating to see what looks like nice, neat Pitman and find it is totally beyond me. I have spent far too long looking at it now, thinking that if I try from another angle.... which is probably what your friend is doing now!
Regards
Greensleeves
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I'm feeling very guilty now for having condemned C and her friend to a largely silent evening ... and for having perplexed Greensleeves. I'm quite a fan of cryptic crosswords, and know the frustration of failing to complete a puzzle.
You're probably right - the fact that James Page wrote this page in shorthand, while all the other pages of his notebook I have seen were written in longhand, is likely to mean that he meant the note to be secret and safe from prying eyes. Either that or he was just practising a new - or an old and rusty skill.
Still got my fingers crossed!
Ian
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Please don't apologise, Ian - we like a challenge around here, even if, on some occasions, we are beaten! One thing I did notice from the shorthand is that the narrative contains a number of proper nouns which immediately leads one to conjecture whether these were of people, or places....
Regards
Greensleeves
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It's vindication, isn't it, Greensleeves, though not much use to Ian. I haven't used it for a long time and my 120 wpm has now probably turned into one word every 120 minutes but still expected to be able to read it.
More research - I'm curious now
C
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my pitmans stays at dear sir, with reference to yours truly and then I gave up... so cant help sorry..
But I am going to send it to my daughter who may recognise it... we shall see.
xin
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Hello Greensleeves -
... sincere thanks for having done your best to decipher this notebook extract. The system of shorthand may even be one my ancestor picked up in his days at commercial college in Hamburg - who knows? It may well have to remain a mystery - but that's genealogy I suppose.
With best wishes from rainy Cornwall
Ian
Could the problem be that it's written in German if it was learnt in Hamburg?
Maybe Berlin Bob can help.........not by reading the shorthand :P but by suggesting somone who can....just a thought ;D
Carol
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Ooooh, Carol, hadn't thought of that. Must immediately dust off O level German and see if that will make sense.....
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Good luck ;D if it's anything like my O level French- it won't.
Make sense that is ;)
Carol
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I passed my 60 wpm Pitmans shorthand 30 years ago, but never used it again after college. I can't understand a single symbol ???
It did get me interested again, and I started browsing Ebay for a Pitmans book. I started thinking what a waste, after spending a year learning shorthand, and now I can't make head nor tail of it. For years I could understand bits of it and remembered the sounds like 'sh', but it was mostly Dear Sir, Yours sincerely, accommodation, neccessarily. I may take it up again, if only to try and solve your puzzle Ian :)
While I was at college, I also had a part-time job in Timothy Whites. We used paper bags in those days when we sold products, and was often standing bored at the till. I used to write little messages on the bags in shorthand. When I served a customer, they would get one of these bags with their item. Hopefully none of the customers understood shorthand :-[
Rosemary
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I started to learn Pitmans at high school, we spent a good half year on it, then we were told that it was no longer a suitable shorthand and the lessons stopped >:(
I was actually enjoying it and was good at it ::)
As Rosemary says, should be some old books out there.
Margaret
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It was my best subject too for 3 years though I didn't get to use it in my first job 40 years ago. I have an old Pitmans book I thought of digging out but I am happy to go with the theory it isn't English ;) Hope someone does decipher the gist of it though for you Ian...
:) mare
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Hi,
Can anyone make out the words written in longhand in the second last sentence. ??? ??? ??? This might help to decide if it is Ënglish shorthand or another language.
Andcarred
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I think it's "(Something) Water Hotel, Mrs Robinson" ???
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... with your help Deb :) perhaps it is the name of a town then Motor Hotel? :-\
Ian assumes it is in English, and hopefully someone can throw some light on a few words but I'm lost! As others have said, anyone using shorthand often developed their own shortform style though also as Greensleeves mentioned the vowels are there but no lines or light and heavy strokes.
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I think it's Water Hotel too - did they have Motor hotels in 1876?
Also, if the rest of the notebook is in longhand English them I assume that this is also in English. The shorthand itself could be of German origin, though.
Christine
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Bridge Water Hotel??
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/manning/pn/B/b25.htm
"Bridgewater
In Adelaide it was a subdivision of sections.........It is now included in Birkenhead and was laid out by Alfred Watts (1814-c.1885) in 1855 - The Register of 6 February 1856 at page 4b claimed it to be:
The nearest high ground to the Port, [it] possesses an unlimited supply of fresh water [and is] in close proximity to the railway station. .......Another interesting fact is that James Addison called the local hotel "Bridgewater'', four years before the town was laid out.'....."
And the Hotel certainley seemed to still be going well past the 1870's and into the 1890's-1900's?
http://collection.artgallery.sa.gov.au/agsa/home/CollectionOnline/detail.jsp?ecatKey=626
Cheers
AMBLY
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If you read the Manning Index info you will see it refers to two separate entries....one for the subdivision of Port Adelaide and the other for the town in the Adelaide Hills....miles away. I am quite familiar with the town in the Adelaide Hills ;D and the pub. ;)
http://www.postcards.sa.com.au/features/bridgewater_host.html
Like many others, I also learned and used Pitman's Shorthand and used it in the workplace until 12 years ago. Absolutely lost with these pages however.
Cheers
Cando
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Can see Bridge Water Hotel quite clearly with the suggestion just as I did with the Mrs Robinson Ian had already given :D
I think it's Water Hotel too - did they have Motor hotels in 1876?
Also, if the rest of the notebook is in longhand English them I assume that this is also in English. The shorthand itself could be of German origin, though.
Christine
Wasn't exactly engaging my brain there in my rush was I ::)
Best of luck with any further info Ian
:) mare
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Hi Yelkcub. don't know if this is any help but I learned a form of shorthand here in Australia called Dacomb which is quite similar to Pitman but much more basic. The symbols do look very familiar but it has been about 40 years since I used it. If you could get hold of a Dacomb reference book from the library it might help you to decipher it. Lots of luck.
Anny
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I was amazed, when I logged on after breakfast, to see so many postings - thanks to all who have contributed, for your interest and ideas, and for the offers to pass on the image for others to puzzle over.
A very kind person in Australia (also related distantly to James Page, author of the notebook) was kind enough to send me a mass of material, without which I would not have been able to find out so much about his life. She tells me that the pages of shorthand come immediately after a page containing two drawings, uncaptioned - one shows two koalas up a tree, and the other shows a couple of settlers' cottages. Appaently James was in the habit of making trips into the country round Adelaide - around this time he moved out to Mitcham in the hills. I think you are right - the longhand writing is Bridge Water Hotel - I had already deciphered Mrs Robinson.
Whether the writing is in English - I have no way of knowing, though I would have thought it likely. Interesting poing - if he had wanted to keep the contents of this note secret, he could simply have written in one of his other languages: his obits mention that he knew several. James was, among other things, a consular representative for France and Switzerland.
As far as I can make out from a quick Google - Dacomb shorthand was later than 1876, its inventor born in 1863. The Wiki article on shorthand mentions a German 'Gabelsberger' system from 1834 ...
Again, so many thanks to all for your interest - and for continuing to spread the image among those who might hold the key
Ian
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Hi Yelkcub,
you might be right about it being written in another language - French perhaps. Have a look at
www.steno.ch/htm/141.htm
I don't think it is Gabelsberger.
Peonie
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Samuel Pepys' (17th century) shorthand notes contain some of the strokes used by James Page, that have been puzzling me. Pepys' unusual shorthand is often called a "secret code", but in fact was his own version of an existing system called the Shelton shorthand. His diary was only transcribed in the 19th century. Let's hope it doesn't take 2 centuries to unravel your mystery, Yelkcub. ;D ;D
Have a look at the following website:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/famouspeople/teachers/worksheets/pepys01.shtml
This website, too, is interesting - read "The Code".
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/bookresources/p/prpepysdiary.htm
Maybe James Page did the same thing? Who knows, but I am determined to crack his "code". ;D
CP
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Hi Ian :)
It would wonderful it someone could transcribe these pages to add to the PAGE history in SA. It has been a long and interesting journey so far ;D
Best wishes
Cando
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Indeed, the research into the members of the Page family who migrated to Australia has been truly fascinating, largely thanks to the wonderful friendship and help I encountered from Australian members of RC. Anyone interested can look at the l-o-n-g thread 'Robert HUTTON / Catherine DOWNEY late 19th century' in the main Australia board.
Thanks to all for your continued interest ... and determination to crack the case!
Ian
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Hi ... was doing a search on shorthand to see if anyone actually employs people with it - and found this.
I taught Dacomb Shorthand for several years in the late 70's and prided myself on being able to read anyone's shorthand. I was also a trained court reporter but was too young to sit for the exam.
There are definitely elements of Dacomb on this page. Dacomb was invented in the 1800's, it might be possible that this is a very raw and early form of Dacomb. The punctuation doesn't seem consistent with Dacomb but I'd say it was a novice who didn't yet learn disjoined prefixes and suffixes - if those strokes actually existed at that time. When you're a speed writer, the lack of lines and thick strokes (leaded strokes) dont matter, so this should have been easy.
I can only pick out a few words I'm sorry, I need to completely forget about half of the theory and then I may be able to read it. Thats if it is Dacomb! I can't see any "n"s.!
I was going to ask if it could be about a waterfall or watermark before I even saw reference in other posts here to "Water Hotel" (just found the longhand of that!). I'm thrown by what looks like the Pitman symbol for "with" being used several times. The other thing that doesnt make sense is that the writer seems to be using theory taught at the beginning and end of the only standard Dacomb book on theory.
Okay, to the words!
third line: ......... a levee/levy for watermark ...........
fourth line: medium and geographical ........
6th line from bottom: ("covering" in written in longhand?") a path leading ............could be.............
second last line: ...........a few times.........
third last line: ............prefer operatives (or prototypes)
very last word on first page looks like "lukewarm"
the very last few lines on the second page seems to contain the words: ...........wife........themselves...........
an outline which is used a lot here could be a place name? consonants seem to be: LaPTHR or LaPGR
Tricky text! Its 6 am here, thats all my brain can process right now!
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oops! I really didnt read the preceding posts properly, seems like some of my information may be quashed anyway ... only saving grace I've got is that Mrs. Joy, who purchased Dacomb from the Dacomb sisters, once said that the two Dacomb sisters did not like Pitman and went about creating their own shorthand. So its possible I've just been looking for the first time at Pitman and can see some basic theory that the Dacomb sisters based their shorthand on. Sorry about that!
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Don't worry about it - at least you tried - we seem to have given up on this to the point where I'd forgotten about it :-[
Welcome to rootschat
Christine
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Thanks for the welcome Christine :)
Seems like this has been looked at from all angles already. I'm still bothered by it tho! lol ...
There are two specific complex outlines/words that occur many times in the text, it appears as though the writer has written them in long shorthand because they were notable names/places that were uncommon to the everyday vocabulary of the time. I hope that makes sense. Its something I noticed in years of marking students' work too - the writing of a name/place in long shorthand to make it easier to remember and transcribe. I can't help feeling that these two words may give some insight to the person requesting assistance with the text. Ah well - it was good to try to employ a skill that is otherwise redundant these days :-\
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Many thanks for this reply - I had almost given up hope of deciphering James Page's shorthand notebook entry. We have a notebook of his dated 1876, containing various notes, accounts, drawings, and what seems like plans for a trip (from South Australia, where he lived, having migrated there in 1850) back to England. The 'Mrs Robinson' mentioned in longhand among the shorthand was probably his daughter. James Page was a shipping merchant with dealings particularly in the trade between Australia and New Caledonia. After leaving the Sorbonne (Paris) he spent some time at a commercial college in Hamburg. Whether he learned his shorthand there, or whether he taught himself at a later date, is unknown. Your identification of the shorthand system he was using, and your interpretation of some of the words, is potentially a key to unlocking this mystery. Possibly the note concerned only fairly mundane business matters, but you never know.
Thanks again for your expertise and interest
Best wishes
Ian
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Sehr geehrter Herr Hermsdorf,
das Stenogramm ist in Pitman´scher Stenographie geschrieben.
Jocob Pitmann (Baumeister und Architekt und Bruder von Isaak Pitman) ging 1837 nach Süd-Australien und führte dort die Pitman'sche Stenographie ein.
In Deutschland kenne ich nur einen Herrn, der in der Lage wäre, das zu übertragen. Könnten Sie mir mitteilen, welchen Umfang die Stenogramme haben? Wenn ich den betreffenden Herrn frage, will er immer erst wissen, wieviel Seiten es ungefähr sind.
Ein m.E. leichterer Weg wäre sicher über die englische Steno-Gesellschaft:
Incorporated Phongraphic Society (I.P.S.), Patron: Mrs. Margret Pitman-Miller. Chairman ist:
Mrs Mary Sorene, FIPS (*)
Rosemarie Hänsel
Sächsische Landesbibliothek -
Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek Dresden
Stenographische Sammlung
01054 Dresden
Besucheradresse: Zellescher Weg 18
Telefon: +49-0351 4677-542/541
Telefax: +49-0351 4677-731
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ihre SLUB Dresden/ Ref. Informationsservice
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Hi yelkcub
Is this thread still alive? I was intrigued by your shorthand journal pages, and spent yesterday unravelling them. It's not in Pitmans, but an early 19th century system by one Henry Lewis (1815). There are a couple of manuals available online at archive.org. The bizarrest one is cartoon-like Savoy Opera called Lewis's Cranio-Logical Lecture on Shorthand (http://archive.org/details/lewisscraniologi00lewiiala), but it matches your diarist's system almost perfectly.
I have done the bulk of a transliteration (there are a few idiosyncracies and placenames which I haven't cracked, yet) if you are interested. The last sentence in the entry is just lovely:
The landlady a buxom dame and jolly woman
I'll post the full transcription if anybody out there replies.
Cheers
Sean.
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Wow!
After all this time, I'd be curious to see that! :D
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OK, before I post, the perfectionist in me needs to tie up more of the loose ends. Some of the lacunae are simply down to the fact that the scan hasn't picked up enough detail. If the OP could post a higher res scan, that'd be great. There are also some placenames which are defying analysis so far. Does the OP know which country we are likely in? The diarist has dinner at `Aldridges' after mooching around the `Botanic Gardens'. And there's what looks like a Mount Barker mentioned. Other possible places, or businesses, are Covers (Cover's?), and Cox's .
Also infuriatingly, the diarist seems to have his own system of representing numbers, which is mostly like Lewis's textbook method, but not quite. The entry begins: Saturday December <?>. The <?> is not a standard numeral symbol. Any context from the previous (longhand?) page?
More to the genealogy point, though, is this entry mentions a `Joe Bowen' who appears to be a close friend of the diarist. Also mentioned are a landlord Mr Hawkins, and a Mr Samuels.
I also want to nail down some of the now obsolete travel-by-horse-and-carriage nemenclature. Our diarist was witness to the `off-wheel horse' being beaten, and mentions travelling additionally by both train and omnibus. Not sure what an off-wheel horse is yet!
Sean.
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Perhaps I should do my own research. Lazy :)
Looks like we are in Adelaide. Which has a Botanic Garden, and a nearby Mount Barker. And Aldridge was a well-known publican, apparently. There's even a postcard of `Aldridge's' (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bennetthall/2287955418/).
Can anyone decipher the longhand word (ending in -ing) on line 15 of the first page?
Sean.
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Sorry for my silence - I hadn't realised that the shorthand question was live again! I received no alerts from RootsChat - perhaps none are sent after a certain time has elapsed.
The news that Sean has identified the script and is almost in a position to offer a full transcript is really exciting!
A couple of years ago now I made contact with Australian descendants of James Page (of Adelaide and Mitcham SA), brother of my great, great grandfather. Someone called Joan Jenkins had gathered considerable material on the Pages and their descendants - and my contacts in Australia were kind enough to send me a copy - including the page of shorthand found in a notebook of James Page dated 1876. This was, apparently, the only shorthand document found among his surviving papers. Sadly, Joan Jenkins died some years ago - so the poor copy of the note I posted is all we have to go on. I have now taken images of the photocopy on my digital camera - if these images help to decipher and difficult parts of the document, I'm more than happy to send them - though they are too large to post here.
I am really grateful to Sean for his patience and expertise - and look forward to reading more about the 'buxom dame and jolly woman'
Ian
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As to the 'off-wheel horse': when I was learning to drive - many years ago, I took my test wearing a toga - the car was said to have a near-side and on off-side. I can't now remember whether near means 'nearest the kerb' or 'nearest the driver' ... However, it would seem likely that the carriage referred to in the document was being drawn by two horses - the near-wheel horse and the off-wheel horse. Maybe.
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It's actually the off wheel-horse. Off as in off side (I'm old enough to have done that in driving lessons too). It's the driver's side. A wheel-horse is not the lead horse in a coach-pulling team. I'm guessing then that is was a four-horse team: wheel vs. lead and offside vs. nearside.
S.
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I can't believe that it's 3 years since this thread was started but brilliant that there is now an answer.
Like DebD I would love to find out at last
Christine
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Here's the best I can make of it. The diarist departs from the system of shorthand in Lewis's textbook in a small number of minor ways. This has not been too much of a problem except that his system of numerals is completely different. I have abandonned the task of working them out, although slightly more detail can be guessed at than I give here. The proper names were a real pain, as the shorthand is a quasi-phonetic system, and little remains of any original spelling. With the help of Google I have identified all the place names as being in and around Adelaide and Adelaide Hills. I was even able to corroborate the landlord Hawkins and his pub, Crafer's (http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/aldgate.htm). The mystery longhand word on page 1 line 15 is `cooeing', that is, `shouting cooee!', a fine Australian word. Here's the transcription, line by line. In pedantic academic style the first page is 1v. (1 verso) and the second is 2r. (2 recto). Uncertain, but likely, readings are in <angle brackets>. Unknown numerals are <?>. Sense breaks down in only a couple of places, marked (sic.)
1v.01 Saturday December <?>. Left the Port with Joe Brown by the <?> train
1v.02 but on reaching town found the omnibus would not leave until half
1v.03 past <?> so wandered about town and went to the Botanic Gardens
1v.04 then to Aldridge's where we had dinner. We then
1v.05 went by the Mount Barker Mail to Crafer's. Brutal driver
1v.06 beat the off wheel-horse under <pretense> that it would not go
1v.07 but it seemed to me he did it only out of spite. Left the
1v.08 ill-used horse at the mountain hut. Passengers had to
1v.09 <walk> up hill. Arrived at Crafer's about <?>. Had
1v.10 tea about 1/<?> past <?>. After tea when it was dark
1v.11 heard a great noise when shortly the landlord arrived in a great
1v.12 passion with a kicking horse which he <calls Raruy (sic.)>. He had
1v.13 been to town about some law affair <concerning> the lease of the
1v.14 house. A family affair. Was in a great passion because
1v.15 he had been cooee-ing a mile off and nobody had heard
1v.16 him. Brown and I slept in a double bedded room.
1v.17 Sunday <?>. Rained all the morning too and we had not
1v.18 got out. Landlord (Mr. Hawkins) cut his
1v.19 forehead open with a stirrup-iron which has
1v.20 not improved his temper. In the afternoon
2r.01 we went through the hills to Mr. Samuel's, supposed to be <?>
2r.02 miles off but we lost our way and must have
2r.03 gone <?> or <?> miles over hill and gully as
2r.04 it took us more than <?> hours and a 1/<?>.
2r.05 Samuel <came> back with us part of the way and we got
2r.06 back to Crafer's in 1 1/<?> hours. Nearly let out (sic.)
2r.07 <?>. <______> rained all the morning and we having no
2r.08 great-coats could not return to town by the
2r.09 Mail as there was only room outside.
2r.10 In the afternoon went to Cox's Creek to the Bridge
2r.11 Water Hotel Mrs. Robinson
2r.12 and (sic.) agreed to send wife and family up, Brown also
2r.13 to send his wife and family. The landlady a
2r.14 buxom dame and jolly woman
That's it! Hope this was useful :)
Cheers
S.
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What a lovely glimpse into the social history of the time and place.
Great bit of work, Stenog
Christine
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Well done, Stenog!
Fascinating!
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I wonder if the name of the horse was Rory. From Black Beauty.
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I wonder if the name of the horse was Rory. From Black Beauty.
There you go! Thank you. The shorthand outline is very clear in its vowel pointing of the first vowel as ('a'): R-A-R-{E/U, indistinct}-Y. But of course it's also used for the `aw' sound in the word `law' in line 13, though there reinforced with the sign for `w'. Can't believe I missed it!
Thanks again.
S.
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What a fascinating thread! Great work Stenog! I learnt Pitman New Era in the late 1970s and thought I could read a few words here and there. The clearest being the last word in brackets on 1v.18 which appeared to be "carefulness" but turns out to be "Hawkins"! :-[
Just a thought, but the numbers that are transcribed as "1/<?>" in 1v.10, 2r.04 and 2.r06 are likely to be 1/2 or 1/4 as they are times. However as the writer has put 'half' in shorthand at the end of line 1v.02 perhaps these are more likely to be 1/4 or even 1/Q (a quick version of writing one quarter) ???
Heather :)
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I have written to Sean off-list to express my gratitude for his magnificent effort in transcribing these shorthand leaves from James Page’s notebook, circa 1876. Not only did he manage to identify, from many possibilities, the system of shorthand employed by James Page, but then went on to decipher, from a poor, smudged copy of the original, a fascinating glimpse into the life and character of a multi-faceted, historically important citizen of South Australia at a key moment in the colony’s history.
Sean – it’s a little early in the day to raise a glass to you, so I raise my coffee cup instead with a heartfelt thankyou. IAN
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Just a thought, but the numbers that are transcribed as "1/<?>" in 1v.10, 2r.04 and 2.r06 are likely to be 1/2 or 1/4 as they are times. However as the writer has put 'half' in shorthand at the end of line 1v.02 perhaps these are more likely to be 1/4 or even 1/Q (a quick version of writing one quarter) ???
Yes, it is possible to pin the numbers down a little more than I have let on. You are right that the fractions are either 1/2 or 1/4. In fact the numeral `2' seems to be the only one which coincides with Lewis's published system, and all the 1/<?> fractions in the text use this symbol. However, there are too many plausible solutions (and many more implausible) to make listing them all useful.That the diarist spells out `half' at one point is slightly inconsistent, but then it's just a journal.
Code-breakers amongst you can have some fun comparing the symbols in the text with the <?>-s in the transcription. They all have two little strokes under them in the shorthand, so are easy to spot. There are two consecutive dates, and the phrase `<?> or <?> miles', also likely two consecutive numbers.
For what it's worth, here's the page from Lewis's flamboyant manual concerning his number system. Although it looks like the diarist follows much of this system, it quickly becomes apparent that he doesn't!
Good luck!
S.
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Thanks for posting the 'Fifth Lesson', it's really interesting to see the logic behind how numbers were written in this system. Numbers always slowed me down when writing Pitman as the normal numerical symbols 1, 2, 3 etc were too well ingrained in my head to write numbers phonetically :-\
I looked up the calendar for 1876 to see if that gave a clue to the numbers against Saturday and Sunday, guessing that they might be poorly written versions of 3 and 4 but it seems December 1876 had Saturday 2nd and Sunday 3rd ???
http://www.historyorb.com/date/1876/december
I also looked at December 1875 in case this was written a while after but that doesn't fit either >:(
Intriguing!
Heather :)
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I'm glad that this point has been raised. I note from Sean's transcript that James Page set off on his weekend in the Hills from Port Adelaide, where he was presumably living at the time. Reading through other notes from my Australian correspondents, I find that James Page moved to Mitcham, South Australia, in 1868. Therefore, if my logic is working, the trip outlined in the shorthand notes must have been sometime before 1868, not in 1876 as I was informed. How does that affect our understanding of James's system of numeration?
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... I note from Sean's transcript that James Page set off on his weekend in the Hills from Port Adelaide, where he was presumably living at the time.
Not necessarily. He could have been on business during the week in Port A, and started his weekend directly from work.
S.
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You are of course quite right to raise that possibility. I just thought that if Heather or you had access to calendars for the 1860s as well as the 1870s it might help settle the matter of James Page's idiosyncratic method of rendering numbers.
I sent your transcription to a descendant of James Page in Australia - needless to say she is delighted and asked me to pass on her antipodean thanks
IAN
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I googled "what day was 3 December 1876?' and got that historyorb site - there are several sites that will tell you the same information :)
Heather