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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: alfiepeg on Friday 05 June 09 22:28 BST (UK)
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My relations were publicans in the Queens Arms Pub, West Street, Winshill. Does anyone have any information about the pub, or where West Street is,] as there seems to be some confusion about 'old' West street and 'new' West street.
Thanks for any help
Alfiepeg
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Hi Alfie,
I know of some people who kept the Queen's Arms in West street Winshill.
If you want to send a pm, i will give further information.
Regards
Molly
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Hi Alfie
The confusion about West Street is because the area was rebuilt. I grew up in Winshill & had quite a shock when I returned a few years ago.
Pat
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Hi madabout
Where abouts in Winshill? I lived In the old West street.
Molly
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Hi Molly
I lived off the level. Went to infants, Berry Hedge Lane & on to Joseph Clark school.
Can just remember the butchers on the corner of Church Hill Street, think it was one of the Lownds (?)
Pat
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Hi Alli, the Library closest to Winshill may have a photo of the pub ??? worth asking them.
charlotte
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Alfie,
The houses in old West street were demolished in about 1970. The Queen's Arms was left standing however, and later became a fish and chip shop. Mr and Mrs Cowley ran the Queens Arms for a number of years, then a Mr and Mrs Fern.
West street is and was opposite St Mark's Church in Winshill.
I have an 1881 census with Alfred and Mary Soul? running the Queen's Arms.
I occasionally go over to Burton Library, searching for my own rellies, so I could ask if they have any photographs of the pub, if you wish.
Regards
Molly
PS
I do not mind taking photographs of the street as it is now, if it is of any help.
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Madabout (Pat)
'ditto' for schools. :)
Molly
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Hi Molly
I did go into the fish & chip shop in the new West Street, opposite a car park.
Miss Mitton was headmistress at the infants. Happy days...
Pat
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Thanks Molly and Pat and everyone else who answered,
Mr and Mrs Cowley were my direct line descendants, and I was really interested to hear that the library may have a photo. I live in Colchester so not so near, but am thinking of coming to Winshill for the day to gather photos and info, and do a bit of grave yard searching as well.
Would love some info from you Molly, but what is a pm? As you can tell, I am quite new at this
Many thanks
Alfie
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Hi Alfie
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/178511
I have found a photo of St Marks. It is a bit misleading as it is quite built up round it. Google earth shows it more as it is now.
Pat
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Alfie
You just click on the green scroll on the left of your message, to send a personal message.
Molly
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Hi Alfie,
I make no apology for being a Stapenhillian.
1. If you google 'st. marks church winshill' and click on the Geograph. org site you will see a beautiful picture of your local church.
2. If you google 'staffspasttrack' and insert winshill on the search there are two photos; one of the V.E. celebrations at Eldon Street and of pupils at Joseph Clark Schppl.
You other Gorby's Knob people may also be interested.
Best wishes.
pc99
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Hi Pat,
What a lovely picture of St Marks, had not seen that before, thank you.
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No worries about being a Stapenhillian pc99, not only do a lot of my relatives come from Stapenhill, but I come from Essex, far worse reputation!
The picture of Eldon Street is wonderful, thank you so much, probably have some of my family on it as I had some living in Eldon St.
Also lovely picture of St Marks Pat, can't believe that Winshill is disappointing when I look at that, but as you said, it is now more built up.
Kind regards
Alfie
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Hello PC 99
It is a long time since I heard it called Gorby's knob. I too had rellies in Stapenhill (Ferry Street) Nothing wrong with Stapenhill. I was visiting Stapenhill cemetery three weeks ago. Found my long lost grandparents grave.
Regards
Molly
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Hi Alfie
I have found a photo for you !
I hope this helps
Paul
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Well done Paul.
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Frank,
A very very big Thankyou Frank.
The space on the left of the photograph is where our old house stood (No 3)
I cannot tell you how i felt when i saw that photograph.
It was the house where i was born, and where my Mother lived for sixty years.
I am so very pleased i found Rootschat, and all the wonderful people on here.
Alfie will be over the moon, as I am.
My regards and gratitude.
Molly :'( :)
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Frank (or Paul)
Just a note. The building on the right is part of another pub, called The Traveller's Rest, which has only been demolished recently. The pub was full of character, and my fathers 'watering hole'.
Love the Queens has had it's chips bit :)
Molly
Thanks again.
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Hi Molly
Glad I could help!
I found the picture in a book called Burton on Trent Pubs, I have loads of local books from Burton and Derby to do with Pubs and Breweries so if there is anything else you are after let me know. ;D
Paul
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Paul,
Thank you for the photograph of The Travellers Rest, how it used to look. I am speechless. There were two 'stumps', either side of the church yard gates where two 'characters' used to sit'. I never knew their proper names, they were always 'Gorgy', who had one leg, and 'Bubbles' who could not walk properly.
The photograph would probably have been taken when Mr Bourne kept it. It was always immaculate then, but sadly went 'downhill' afterwards.
I have printed all the copies off and will treasure them.
I would imagine the little girl is going to Harvey's on an errand for her mum.
Thankyou so much for taking the time and trouble to send the photographs. It was very good of you. I am sure Alfie will appreciate them too.
Best wishes
Molly
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Pat,
I think i mentioned i had cuttings of the infant school teachers, there are about four alltogether, and are rather large to put on here, some are of the children who attended the school, circa, 1949/50.
If you want to pm your address, I will gladly copy them and send them by post.
Regards
Molly
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Wow Paul,
To say I am pleased/impressed/grateful is putting it mildly! I have been away for a few days and came back to your wonderful photos. To think that my great grandmother was born in that pub, and seeing it, well, I am just overwhelmed that someone took the trouble to send the photo, thank you. I am doing a family tree book for my mother for Christmas and this will bring back so many memories for her.
Best wishes
Alfie
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Hi Alfie
Its a great community on here!
The other day someone restored some pictures for me so there is always someone willing to help .
Iam glad you are pleased
Paul
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Hi Alfie,
Yes, thanks again Paul. It was great to see those photographs.
Alfie.
Mr and Mrs Cowley kept chickens, and one day one of them escaped into our garden. There was my brother and I trying to catch this chicken, with Mrs Cowley laughingly watching us. Anyway we cornered it in the end, but my brother would not pick it up, so i had to. Funny the things you remember isn't it.
They were very long gardens in the street, we were able to grow all our fruit and veg. We also kept our own chickens.
Mr Cowley was a very quite man, and walked very slowly. That Tan jacket is very prominent in my mind, for some reason.
I also recall someone called Hickman? was it. Could he have had a son called Terrence?
If I think of anything else I will let you know.
Best wishes
Molly
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Hi Paul and Molly,
Paul, have you any idea when the first photo of the Queen's arms was taken? I am trying to work out if it was when my gr gr grandparents owned it.
Molly, Mr Cowley died aged 34 of spinal meningitis which could explain why he walked so slowly. Am wondering however if the Mr and Mrs Cowley that you remember are my direct relatives, or whether they are the son and daughter in law. I say this because Mr Joseph Cowley died in 1891, and I can't work out how you would have met him (unless you are about 120!). Sarah Jane Cowley died sometime after 1926 so that is more feasible, I wonder if Sarah Jane married again... something else to look for.
You are both so much help, thank you again, it is bringing my family alive
Helen
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In case you didn't realise, Helen is Alfie, or rather Alfie is Helen!! I just find it easier to use Alfie as that is what everyone calls me due to my username (which is named after my two dogs)
This is a photo of Mrs Cowley, do you recognise her Molly?
Best wishes
Alfie
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Hi Alfie
Iam not too sure about the photo but looking at the Ind Coope light above the door Iam thinking around 1960's or early 70's.
Hope this helps
Paul
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Hi Alfie,
I am a bit younger than a hundred and twenty :) so it must have been a son and daughter in law, or it could have been a descendent of theirs. Thinking about it, I always knew them as Mr and Mrs Cowley and never knew their christian names. It was not done in those days. I certainly did not recognize the photograph, kind of you to send it though.
The houses were demolished in about 1970, so the photograph would have been taken after then. You will probably find them on the 1911 census, although it is rather expensive. The Mr Cowley I knew would probably have died in middle fifties. He would certainly have been older than 34.
I did feel rather old when you mentioned your gr gr gr grandparents and i supposed i should have realized that it could not possibly have been them.
Best wishes
Molly
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Alfie (Helen)
I don't know if you already have this, but On the 1901 census I have found A Ralph Cowley, living at 27, West Street, (this would have been right at the top of the street) Ralph is with Ann, wife, 62.
Bertram, son, 26
Julie, daughter,21
Annie, 17
A little bit more?
Molly
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Alfie,
Bertram Cowley would fit in age wise with the Mr Cowley I knew. He would have been in his seventies when he died.
Hope this helps.
Molly
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Madabout (Pat)
For You. From Molly
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Ah Molly, this really helps,
Ralph and Ann were my gr gr grandfather's parents and I too have them living at West St, I just had not thought about looking at their other children, just Joseph.
I tracked down all Joseph and Sarah Jane's children, and none of them were living at the pub in 1911, I will now concentrate on Joseph's siblings' children.
You have been a great help, I am determined to track down which Cowley you knew.
Many thanks
Alfie
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Hi Alfie
I have found a marriage for Bertram Cowley in 1924 in Derby. I am 99% sure this is him. His wife's maiden name was Ellon Hickman. I think I mentioned the name Hickman in one of my previous posts, a man of that name used to visit them quite often, my mother used to say he was a relative. 7b 1474 for both of them.
I am going to send for the marriage certificate Alfie, the parents names will be on that. Then we will know for sure. I need to know as much as you do I think.
Best wishes
Molly
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Paul,
You don't happen to have a trade directory of pubs in Winshill in your book, do you?
I am trying to find out when Bertram Cowley took over the tenancy of the Queen's Arms in Winshill. 1920ish.
Don't worry if not. I can go over to the library.
Molly
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Sorry Molly I don't have any directories.
Paul
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Paul,
ok Paul thanks again for photographs.
Molly
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Hi,
If it is of interest Kelly's 1891 Directory shows a Joseph and
Mrs. Sarah Jane Cowley beer retailers at 2, West Street, Winshill ( doesn't give the name of a pub' )
Regards.
pc99
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Thank you for your reply. However it is a Bertram Cowley I am trying to trace.
I have a marriage certificate for Bertram in 1924, so it would be after that.
I know he kept the pub in the late 40's early fifties.
Yes Number 2 was the Queen's Arms.
Regards and thanks
Molly
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Hi Molly,
I have a Bertram Cowley, he is the brother of Joseph who is my direct relative, but he was born around 1875 and I have found him in the 1911 census married to someone other than Hickman. I am assuming that your Bertram is a child of one of the other brothers. We will know more when you receive his marriage certificate.
I am truly grateful for all your help in this, and for everyone else who chips in
Kind regards
Alfie
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Hi Alfie
I don't quite know where to start :)
The name Bert Cowley has started to ring a bell. I too found Bertram on the 1911 census married to Nellie with five children, living in Derby. He was 35 at the time.
Mr Hazlehurst kept the Queen's Arms in 1911.
Abner Cowley b. Winshill, Derbyshire, found lodging at 20, Horton Street, Derby, with a Joseph Edward Brown. Abner was a Locomotive fireman.
I also found a marriage for Abner in Derby in 1912. Brides maiden name was Keeling. He is down as being born in Winshill Derbyshire. So i took that to be him.
Now we come to the interesting bit. I actually received the marriage certificate on Friday, but I was going to wait until i had found when Bert Cowley took over the tenancy of the Queen's Arms by looking in the trade directory for Winshill in the local library.
Alfie....Bertram's first wife must have died. He married again in 1924.
Date; 17th May 1924.
Bertram Cowley. 49 years. Widower. Joiner. 15, Carrington Street, Derby.
Fathers name Ralph Cowley (deceased) Ralph was a sawyer.
Ellen Ruth Hickman. 35 years. widow of 15, Harrington Street, Derby. Her father was Richard Harrison, Coal Merchant.
Witnesses were Henry and Nelly Harvey.
Hope this helps. I will be going to the library on Thursday, so will know more then.
Regards
Molly
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Wow Molly,
when I found Bert in 1911 I thought he was the wrong one... how easy it is to assume things.
This is great, we (or rather you) are finally tracking down who the Mr and Mrs Cowley were that you knew and were related to me. Bert was my gr gr grandfather's brother, so my gr gr uncle.
How did you find out who ran the pub in 1911? I tried for ages
Best wishes
Alfie
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Hi Alfie.
My relatives lived at No 3. Just clicked on list on 1911 census
Molly
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Hi Molly
Thank you what a wonderful photograph.
Pat
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PC 99
You are a gem. Thank you for telling me about Kelly's directory's. I have just found who I wanted in 1940.
Did not know it existed.
Very many thanks
Molly
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Hi Alfie
Can you see him? this is from the 1940's kelly's directory, that PC 99 told me about.
Don't think it is very clear.
All i have to do know is find out whose son he was.
Regards
Molly
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Alfie
Where did you find Joseph Cowley's name?. On the 1901 census i have Sarah Jane Cowley, head, widow, 43, living at the Queen's Arms, with 4 children and a lodger.
Molly
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Hi Molly,
I have Joseph in the 1891 census living with Sarah Jane at the Queen's Arms Pub. He died later that year aged 34.
Bertram was Joseph's brother, born around 1875
Kelly's directory looks great, thanks Pat
Best wishes
Alfie
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Sorry, I meant thanks PC99, difficult to remember who sent what when you are writing a reply and cannot see the original!
Alfie
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Sorry Alfie, I only had the top half of West street on 1891 census.
I was a bit confused over that.
So Bertram was the Mr Cowley that I knew then, I'm going 'bonkers' here. I have Mr Cowley's coming out of my earholes :)
Alfie if you scroll down when you are posting your reply's you will see the previous messages. I only found out by accident.
Molly
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I know how you feel, I think this hobby makes us obsessive!
I think I now know the whereabouts of nearly all the Cowleys. Am pretty sure that the Cowley you knew was my gr gr Uncle. If you feel the urge to know any more about the Cowleys just say, I have I think found them all.
Thanks for the 'scroll down' advice................so simple, yet it might have taken me weeks to find.
Thanks
Alfie
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Alfie
If you have the time, I would love to know more about the Cowley's. I have only really a vague memory of Bert Cowley, with his tan jacket, flat cap, and slow walk. Mrs Ellen Cowley certainly played a significant part in my childhood.
I must have visited the 'Outdoor' part of the pub at some stage. It was very quite, and there was a slow? clock ticking away. This must have been in the day time however. It could get very noisy when they threw everybody out at 10.30 (I think it was then) :)
I certainly played with someone called Terry Hickman at the back of the Queen's Arms, as a child. That would have been ellen's side of the family though.
This is fascinating stuff. It sure gets you hooked.
I have gone back on my father's side to 1750, with help from a cousin. I had done some of it, and she had the rest of the information. Gold dust!
Best wishes
Molly
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Hello all. My name is Mario and I am the current owner of the Queens Fish Bar in Winshill (formerly the Queens Arms). I've been reading through your incredibly helpful posts and compiling a timeline. I am trying to find as much information and photos of the property as I can. Any help would be greatly appreciated :)