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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: totally leics on Monday 01 June 09 18:12 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm hoping someone will be able to help solve this family conundrum for me.Sarah Gibbins was in the mill trade in Thurmaston in 1871, but I'm having problems tracing a husband for her then, plus in 1881 she emerges in Argyle St Leicester St.Margarets with her two youngest children, she is now Sarah Robinson, but still no husband. Could she have reverted to her maiden name, her daughters are still Gibbins. Her son Thomas is in Syston in 1881 as miller, grocer, & baker. This part of my puzzle is; did Sarah have two husbands, and if so, who were they?
The second part is unfortunately more vague. There is a perceived family tradition that the Gibbins ancestors moved from Hallaton at some time in the 19th century and while I have located people by this surname in Hallaton in the 1820's I cannot find any link to the Thurmaston Gibbins family.
Anyone who has had the patience to read all this and can offer any help whatsoever, I would be very grateful.
TL ???
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Hi totally Leics,
Have you ruled out this marriage?
Mar 1877
Barrow on Soar 7a 231
Sarah Gibbins to possibly Richard Robinson
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Did you notice that her mother and sister are staying with her in 1871? Their name is Carvell, so we can imagine that Carvell was her maiden name.
Marriage
Sarah Carvell - George Gibbins
Mar 1852 Leicester 7a 295
(She's with George on the 1861 census for Thurmaston)
So it looks like she had 2 husbands indeed
:)
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Hi TL - if you would like folks to take a look for you, we could with some more info, when was Sarah born and where? what was her maiden name? and census references are good if you have them - sometimes a second pair of eyes and all that
:)
DebbieG
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hhhmmm Syston and Thurmaston I know very well... will see if i can find anything
Xin
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There is a perceived family tradition that the Gibbins ancestors moved from Hallaton at some time in the 19th century and while I have located people by this surname in Hallaton in the 1820's I cannot find any link to the Thurmaston Gibbins family.
The 1861 census shows that George was born Hallaton:
1861
RG9/2282 115 5
Thurmaston South, Leicestershire
George Gibbins, head, 36, Miller, b. Hallaton
Sarah, wife, 32, b. Thurmaston
Eliza A, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
Thomas, son, 5, scholar, b. do.
William B, son, 4, scholar, b. do.
Johnson, son, 1, b. do.
Samuel Bishop, relative, wid, 75, Retired Miller, b. do.
+ 2 servants
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Ohh nice one Tati :D
DebbieG
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But it's Horninghold in 1851, Debbie :P
George in 1851:
HO107/2087 661 1
Thurmaston South
Daniel Bishop, head, unm, 70, Miller and Baker, b. Thurmaston South
/
Samuel Bishop, borther, wid, 66, Retired Farmer, b. do.
George Gibbons, nephew, 26, Journeyman Miller, b. Horninghold
Mary Carvell, serv, 19, General serv, b. Thurmaston North
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MMMmm - but Horninghold is right next door to Hallaton
:)
DebbieG
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Sounds good then :)
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I've found George in 1841 - still not with his parents though
Front Street, Thurmaston South
Samuel Bishop 50 Farmer Y
Ann Bishop 55 Y
George Gibbons 15 Y
+ 3 servants
DebbieG
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There is a George Gibbins on IGI christened 1824 Horningold parent Henry Gibbins and Ann.
Liz
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Makes you wonder whether Samuel was in fact his stepdad ...
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Hi everyone, I've just been out walking my dogs and have come back to a goldmine of information, you guys are brilliant, I really cannot thank you enough! With regard to Richard Robinson I believe he was a Welsh doctor born c 1837 and lived next door to Thomas Gibbins, Sarah's son in Syston, but I thought that was co-incidental, but obviously not!
The only Gibbins I had located in the Hallaton area were John born c1796 and his wife Elizabeth born c1803 and a son Joseph born c1824, but Henry and Ann I'm sure are the ones.
It also looks as though George Gibbins most probably met his future wife Sarah through her sister Mary Carvell when he was living at his uncles. ;).
This information has got me out of the rut, ( I'm still learning about all this being new to it etc.,) and has given me plenty to dig deeper on now. :)
Again, a big thank you for all the help.
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Greeting’s….Folks.
Marriage worthy of note. :~
1824.
St: Peter’s Parish Church. Horninghold.:~
Henry Gibbins. ~ Ann Jane JOHNSON.
19th. April.
By Banns.
Groom was a Labourer.
Umm ?.....The surname of Johnson appeared on the 61 census returns
MIKE.
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Hi, that is the marriage Mike. Apparently Henry was born in nearby Blaston and Ann Jane in Hallaton. That probably explains gt gt uncle Johnson's name, we often wondered why that was chosen.Just out of interest he went to train as a vet in Lincolnshire. Thanks to everybody's help I have now been able to trace the Gibbins line back as far as 1716, they seem mainly to have fluctuated between Hallaton and Medbourne at that time.
It is a good feeling when discovering family tradition to be factual, and now I've got a framework to find out more about them all well hopefully anyway. If anyone comes across any info about the Carvell family in Thurmaston especially Sarah born c 1830 please let me know. :) TL
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The 1871 census told us that Sarah had a mother Mary born Thurmaston ca. 1808 and a sister Jane born Thurmaston ca. 1846
How do you like this family?
1851
HO107/2087 653 11
North Thurmaston, Leicestershire
John Carver, head, 50?, Ag lab, b. Leicestershire Barkby
Mary, wife, 44, b. Thurmaston
Sarah, dau, unm, 22, Dress maker, b. do.
John, son, 13, b. do. - blind
Thomas, son, 9, scholar, b. do.
Jane, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
:)
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They're also Carver in 1841
There's a daughter Mary age 9 who could be the Mary Carvell we found earlier ...
1841
HO107/592/7 10 8
Thurmaston North, Leicestershire
John Carver, 40, Ag lab
Mary, 30
Sarah, 12
Mary, 9
John , 3
All born in county
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Greeting’s again. ……. Totally Leicester.
Your quote ~
“ There is a perceived family tradition that the Gibbins ancestors moved from Hallaton at some time in the 19th century”
Extract from my Poor Law Disc….
Quarter Sessions Leicester.( Settlement & Removals )
Case No’. QS6/1/14/814.
Michaelmas 1819 Gibbons John
Aged.3 Son 28 Sep 1819
Hallaton to
Leicester. St Margaret. Discharged.
Michaelmas 1819 Gibbons John
Husband 28 Sep 1819
Hallaton to
Leicester. St Margaret. Discharged.
Michaelmas 1819 Gibbons Mary
Aged.11 Daughter 28 Sep 1819
Hallaton to
Leicester St Margaret. Discharged.
Michaelmas 1819 Gibbons Mary
Wife 28 Sep 1819.
Hallaton to
Leicester St Margaret Discharged
OK the Name is Gibbons but this could be how the idea of the move came from ?
I have also had a look at early Population Head count ( Fore runner to Censuses )
THURMASTON South. :~ 1814.
Households of :~
Bishop. Edward.4 Males. 3 Females.
Bishop. Samuel. 4 Males. 2 Females.
Johnson. John. 14 Males. 6 Females.
Oh. .. There was another Marriage of note in Hallaton. :~
1815.
St. Peter’s Parish Church. Hallaton.
Samuel Gibbins. ~ Elizabeth Roach.
27th. July.
By Banns.
Also was this George’s Burial ? :~
1869.
St: Michael & all Angel’s Parish Church.Thurmaston.
Parish Burial Register No’. 641.
George Gibbins.
Abode Thurmaston.
25th. November..
Aged. 45.
Hope this helps in some Way.
MIKE.
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Thanks Mike,all info much appreciated, not too sure about the Gibbons entries, but the burial sounds right on the button for George, their youngest was born in 1868 and he does not appear around 1871. Still puzzled by how the Bishops are related in all this, whether its by kinship or marriage. Will look more into how the other Hallaton marriage connects, but feel sure it does in someway!
Carver info also proving very useful thanks Tati.
Have been able to trace various other lines now through George's wife Sarah Carver mostly in Thurmaston and through her maternal line which has brought up the Lanes and the more unusual surname of Benskin (Jane born c1786). TL
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Hi folks, could use some more experienced eyes to help me with another puzzle from the Gibbins family, feel like I'm going round in circles at mo!
When George Gibbins moved to live with the Bishops in Thurmaston (b 1824 Horninghold) it seems to say they are his uncles.Have found Daniel Bishop (b Mar 1781) and Samuel Bishop (b Sep 1784). Have also found a marriage between a Samuel Bishop and Ann Hughes on 22/May/1823 at St.Michaels church, Blaston, Leics. Henry Gibbins (father of George) appears to have been born in Blaston 1800, so that seems a tenuous connection, but I cannot link the relationship between Bishops and Gibbins.I explored the possibility that Samuel was George's step father, but his father Henry did not pass away until Aug 1860.
Any advice or info would be gratefully received. TL
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Greeting’s again. ..Totally Leics.
Another connection of the Family names :~
1803.MARRIAGE.
St Michael’s Parish Church. Blaston.
Ann GIBBINS. ~ Hugh HUGHES.
Groom of the Parish of
Llaniki Merionethshire.
14th. June.
By Licence.
Samuel Bishop ~ Ann Hughes.
St: Michael’s Parish Church. Blaston.
22nd. May.1823.
Was also by Licence.
Worth exploring the Licence Bonds held at the Records Office Wigston.
These will give you a lot more information.
Both by the Index Card System and on Microfilm of the
Litigation, Affidavit. And the Bond certificate.
MIKE.
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Hi Mike, many thanks for yet again coming up with the goods! :)
Will certainly follow your advice and take a look at the licence bonds. Am learning all the time.
TL
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“ Your very welcome……”
If you ask at the desk in Search Room No’. 2.
The staff will show you how the Index Card System works
It’s usually in the name of the groom
The Staff can then show you how to find the Micro film No’
which you want To view via the overhead projectors.
The down side of this is that they are NOT in name order or Date order
So allow yourself at lest 30 minutes for this task of trawling through the images..
Best if you copy down all the details from the Fiche of the Marriage Register first via the Fiche Reader machine.
You can then hopefully match up the names of the securer of the Bonds
Who usually turn up as Witness. .
It’s simple once you have done it……
MIKE.
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Hi, Totally Leicester
Have followed your Gibbins thread with interest as I have lae 18th century Gibbinses in medbourne who may (nay probably do) link to yours somewhere along. I was wading through Hallaton (at Wigston office) for Stevensons, and Medbourne-Blaston for Warringtons/Waddingtons (interchangeable there I think?).
In my family John Waddington of Medbourne married Lydia Gibbins of Medbourne at Medbourne on 9 October 1792. John and Lydia were the parents of several children including Lucy Waddington (19 Jan 1798, Medbourne) who married Christopher Stevenson of Hallaton at Medbourne on 28 Dec 1815 - and became progenitors of a clan. The christian name Lydia came to the Stevensons from this Gibbins connection I believe. I am great-great-great grandson of Chris and Lucy and (four greats) from John W and Lydia Gibbins.
The furthest I felt I could safely go back was to Lydia's parents Henry Gibbins and Elizabeth (name unknown), and I just had the two children Lydia (christened 16 Sept 1770) and Elizabeth (christened 16 June 1772), both at Medbourne. I wonder if this little family group tallies with any of your Gibbins researches in that neighbourhood and whether you can point me to a way of following it sideways and upwards??
I should be most grateful for any advice. I've been in family history research for a few years but this is my first post ever on rootschat! I joined specially to ask you this!!
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PS., The plot thickens! ... I have been working on the theory that my ancestor John Waddington who married Lydia Gibbins in 1792 was one of the children of John Wa'rr'ington (the cursive 'r' and the curly 'd' become indistinguishable) and Elizabeth Turner (1723-1785) who married 12 Oct 1744 at Medbourne. (There's another John but he doesn't convince me). Children of John & Elizabeth Warr/ddington are Henry (1745), Elizabeth (1748), Lucy (1750), Mary (1753, = Robert Sharman 28 Sep 1779), Elenor (3 July 1756, = David Smeeton 25 Sept 1786), John (18 July 1761, = Lydia Gibbins 9 Oct 1792) and Lucy (1763-1792).
The key point is that Elizabeth (1748) married Edward Bishop (m 5 Oct 1778) - all at Medbourne.
So, if these deductions are okay, there is a connection at 2nd remove through the Waddingtons in the period 1778-1792 for Bishop and Gibbins family.
Hope that might help, and would love to know if this tallies with your findings.
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Hi Mercian, one of the delights of researching this branch of the family is that it keeps me on my toes with its twists and turns!
If my facts are correct then Edward Bishop( christened 09/july/1758) did indeed marry Elizabeth as you stated although there is some disparity in their ages which intrigues me, and according to my research thus far they were the parents of Daniel (chr 31/mar/1781) and Samuel (chr 20/sep/1784) at Thurmaston. Prior to Edward my hunt for the previous two generations of Bishops have led me to Asfordby, but I digress!
Its quite late now and I need to sit back and read your information closer, but I will certainly respond soon. I am still relatively new to family history, but enthusiastic and anything I have discovered I will gladly share.
If we are really fortunate more experienced RootsChatters may read this and be able to fill in a few gaps also. :) TL
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Hah! Interesting 'twists and turns' is a polite way of saying that you may find more than one connection between (or even within) the same families (e.g. Gibbins, Robinson, Stevenson, Waddington etc) in the course of a couple of generations, in and around Hallaton, Medbourne, Blaston etc. No slur intended! but there are complexities. ;) I think the Bishop-Gibbins link I have suggested through the Waddingtons is too far back to explain the use of the word 'nephew' in the census relationship between Daniel Bishop and George Gibbins: but it might be the precursor of a later connection.
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A trawl of Leicestershire Bishops on IGI shows the family securely based there and at Asfordby and Gilmorton from the 17th century, but no natural focus near Hallaton, so Elizabeth is the Hallaton/Medbourne connection for that 1778 marriage. In addition to Dan and Sam I count six other children (all except Thomas 1788 being girls) to Edward and Elizabeth at Thurmaston, dating 1779-1790, fitting that marriage date neatly. There are other contemporary Thurmaston Bishop families with similar christian names (?brothers of Edward?) Edward as a Bishop christian name seems to be long-standing. Looks good. :) M
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Hi Mercian,
I have been busily trying to collate the information I have so far uncovered for the Gibbins clan. Collating, I'm afraid, is not my strongest point... however here are some of the facts thus far;
George Gibbins, who was the initial starting point, was the son of
HENRY BORN BLASTON 1800 , CHRISTENED MEDBOURNE 3/NOV/1801
ANNE JANE JOHNSON BORN 27/JAN/1802 HALLATON
MARRIED 12/SEPT/1822 HORNINGHOLD
HENRY'S PARENTS WERE WILLIAM GIBBINS CHR 31/MAR/1771 & ELIZABETH BREWSTER WHO MARRIED AT MEDBOURNE CUM HOLT ON 9/DEC/1799
WILLIAM'S PARENTS WERE THOMAS GIBBINS CHR 6/SEPT/1747 AT HALLATON & JANE FREESTONE WHO MARRIED 12/NOV/1766 AT MEDBOURNE CUM HOLT.
THOMAS' PARENTS WERE THOMAS GIBBINS BORN HALLATON c 1716 & SARAH CARTER BORN HALLATON c 1720. HAVE YET TO DISCOVER THEIR MARRIAGE DETAILS.
There the trail goes cold. I have several other Gibbins threads I am trying to piece together including your two ladies Lydia and Elizabeth in the immediate area, plus another line which keeps showing up in the Allexton, Belton in Rut and Skeffington area who I'm seeking a connection to due to their geographical proximity. It is hard to believe that so many apparently disparate lines of my family are all within a fifteen mile radius of each other quite aside from the Gibbins! So I will not be too surprised if and when "interesting" connections arise :). I'm still trying to work out how the Bishop-Hughes-Gibbins exactly relate to George although thanks to Mike's find I know they do.. I really must find time to re visit the records office!
Any further finds or info I will be sure to let you know. TL
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Hi Totally Leics!
It's worth remembering that there may be people in the Hallaton and Medbourne registers who do not appear in IGI - hence the need to check.
But it does look as if William who married E. Brewster must be William 1771, son of Thomas Gibbins and Jane Freestone. They also have John (1767) and Amelia (1769). I expect you have seen that there are two other Medbourne Thomas-Jane marriages round about then, one with children William Jane and John (1749, 52, 55) and another later, with children Thomas 1779, Robert 1782, George 1785 and Francis 1790. It seems unlikely that all three father Thomases are the same, having children between 1749 and 1790, but there's a fair possibility that the second and third ones (ie yours and the later one) are the same father Thomas, maybe with two wives causing that gap from 1771-1779. Then the span would be 1767-1790, perfectly possible. All these seem to have nothing to do with Thomas and Elizabeth, who have a family of eight at Hallaton between 1755 and 1772.
So it's a good theory that your Thomas is Thomas son of Thomas and Sarah Carter, 1747 of Hallaton, though he would also be the prime candidate for the Medbourne 1779-1790 family, so the possibility of two marriages remains. Or maybe one marriage with a long gap with no record of children.
It must be right to rule out the two earlier Hallaton Thomas-Jane marriages, namely Thomas=Jane Patmon (Marie and John, 1730-1731) and Thos=Jane Bond (John 1738, Elizabeth 1740, Henry 1742) as possible fathers for your Thomas. Of course they might have had children called Thomas, but IGI doesn't tell us.
For your elder Thomas, (who married Sarah Carter) - we haven't got that marriage, have we? - you might cautiously consider Thomas (bp 19 June 1713), the fifth of six children of Henry Gibbins (GIBBENS) of Blaston - they were Sarah (1707), William (1708), Henry (1709), Ann (1711), Thomas, and Elizabeth (1714).
I count that William Gibbins and Eliz Brewster have 7 children (1800-1813), Henry being the eldest surviving son (Thomas 1800 died in infancy). Thomas and Sarah (Carter) have six, 1747-1758, including a infant mortality Edward of 1754 'replaced' 1758. Lots of room there for lateral investigation.
I think it's possible that my Henry Gibbins, father of Lydia and Elizabeth (Medbourne), is Henry 5th April 1751, 3rd son of Thomas and Sarah, brother of your putative ancestor Thomas, who is the elder. But then he might also be Henry 1752, son of Henry & Elizabeth Sewell of Blaston, in which case his father Henry is probably Henry 1709 son of Henry the elder of Blaston. Or even (though I doubt it) he might be Henry the son of Thomas Gibbins and Jane Bond (10 June 1742, Hallaton) - so I am really up the creek! About now a will or two would help.
Like space-spaghetti, isn't it? ;D Mercian
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Another thought: Mike from Leicester's post above about the two Hughes marriages, both by licence. These seem to mean that Samuel Bishop (born 1784) married Ann Hughes in 1823 (when he was nearly 40): and if she was of similar age then the chances are that the marriage to Hugh Hughes by Ann Gibbins is the same Ann, in her first marriage twenty years previously. Therefore Samuel Bishop is married to Ann (nee Gibbins, afterwards Hughes), who was perhaps born about 1783-ish, and Anne's brother must be George's father that you were looking for to begin with: that's why George is Samuel (and Daniel) Bishop's nephew in the 1851 census.
The problem with that is, that there is no Ann listed as the sister of Henry (1801) son of William and Elizabeth. BUT Ann (born 6th April, bapt. 14th April 1784, just the right age) is the second listed child of Thomas Gibbins and Elizabeth, of Blaston, for whom IGI also lists children George (2 Feb 1783), Elizabeth (14 Aug 1785), Elizabeth (23 May 1786), Mary (1 July 1787), Thomas (23 May/4th Sept 1788), Elizabeth (12 Sept 1791), Robert (4 Nov 1792), Jane (12 Sep 1794), Susannah (12 Jan 1800) and Frances Elizabeth (14 Feb 1802) - 11 counted including Ann. But NO Henry!
The presence of a George among Ann's brothers and sisters - and he is her nearest sibling - does really hint that the original young George who lived with the millers of Thurmaston, and became one, was a descendant of this family, as the relationship to Ann seems to indicate. I think you might have to invent a Henry as brother to the known Ann - probably born c1795-99, where there's a gap, and to make him the right age in 1824 - because you CAN'T invent an Ann c1784 as daughter of William and Elizabeth, since their children are 1800-1813 - two decades later. That would make some sense because the 40-year age gap between George and his uncle Sam (and according to 1841 add 5 for Ann) means his father was likely a much younger brother of Ann's. I'm saying that the Henry who made the Johnson marriage, if he was the younger brother of Ann by 10 years or so, can't have been Henry the son of William Gibbins and Elizabeth Brewster - because when that Ann was likely born, William 1771 was only about 12 years old. But he could have been a son of Thomas and Elizabeth of Blaston.
There is evidently also some connection with the last Thomas Gibbins and Jane group from Medbourne who have children 1779-1790 including a Thomas 1779, a George (1785) and a Francis (boy, b.4 Dec, bapt 5 Dec 1790). Can't be the same father Thomas because of the overlap, unless Jane as a mother for Francis is a scribal slip for Elizabeth - but that's a very last resort!
>:( M
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Hi Mercian,
Do you think it might be possible that Ann was in fact the teenage mother of Henry 1800? I thought baptisms usually followed in a month or so after birth. Plus he was born in Blaston then christened in Medbourne in Nov 1801. Could it be that others in the Gibbins clan i.e William and Elizabeth took him in as their own? This is high conjecture of course and I cannot see any way of proving it, but it would make George Ann's grandson in Thurmaston. ::) TL
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Haha! Forgive me if I avoid that question, as I am not really in a position to answer it! You can arrange the facts, but try not to stretch them or twist them.
Almost anything is possible, but one must start from whatever is evident, and then say 'I don't really know' until more evidence is forthcoming. You really must get over to Wigston and look at those Ann bonds. They might well give you some concrete clues. The more you prepare yourself by thinking through the various local Gibbinses in IGI, the better equipped you will be to get insights from the records.
Against your adoption theory is the fact that William has already had Thomas in November 1800, who has died 6 weeks later, and then Henry, Sarah, Robert and William all come at regular intervals towards midwinter, suggesting that they are conceived in the spring. The sequence starts with 9 December 1799 as the wedding day of William and Elizabeth - so it does all look as if William and Liz are following their own course of events. And the fact that a name is not in IGI is NO EVIDENCE that such a person did not exist.
Blaston is a strange entity, being distinct from both Hallaton and Medbourne, but having some kind of divided dependency in two halves upon the other two parishes. Both the churches are victorian (St Giles 1870, St Michael 1867-1868), though both possess church plate (?from foregoing churches) which is a good deal older (Pevsner Leic and Rutland 1973 printing). This is something to do with why the Blaston records appear variously in the Medbourne and Hallaton registers.
I think when people put 'of Blaston' in the registers they really mean it, because there are lines at Blaston that are distinct from those having the same name at the other two. I know for instance that the family of William Waddington of Blaston (1711-1783) and his wife Elizabeth (1716-1787) and their children, have tombstones and inscriptions in Medbourne churchyard, which specify that they are of Blaston: and that their line should not be confused with the Waddingtons designating themselves as of Medbourne.
If there are marriages which cross these lines, as there must often or usually have been, its worth considering that marriages often take place in the bride's home church, not the groom's, and that children may often be born in the bride's home village rather than in the current family home - as if, for instance, mother went to stay with her parents while she was giving birth, to have the necessary support.
So - as with Edward Bishop and Elizabeth Wadd/rrington, - the marriage venue doesn't necessarily tell you much about where the groom comes from. (After all, the custom is that the bride's parents pay for the reception, and the custom that the bride's family are the hosts goes back to very ancient times.) And then we know that Dan and Sam and their siblings werre born in Thurmaston. The same with Ann: Sam married her in Medbourne, but she lived in Thurmaston. So the Groom might easily go to his wedding at Medbourne from Hallaton, for instance, as my ancestor Christopher Stevenson did to marry Lucy Waddington in 1815. He married her at Medbourne because that's where her family lived: but once married they lived in Hallaton, which is where his family came from. I think one of their sons was born in Shearsby - not because they lived there, but because there were relatives there. It may be very important that young George once says he is from Horninghold, as this may help to differentiate the household - is that where the Johnsons lived? etc etc etc...
Keep digging! and best wishes TL, sorry I go on so much :( M
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Hi Mercian,
Thanks, what you say is useful, my branch of the Gibbins family have a long history of passing story/information by word of mouth through the generations. Now much of what I have been told has proved to be true, and I try to be mindful of dealing with facts rather than tradition, but sometimes part of my inheritance is a tendency to look at something and ask "what if?" when I know full well an analytical approach is the one to be employed!! ;) ;D
I shall make the time to visit the records office again armed with the facts that so many have kindly helped me to put together and work at this next riddle in a more scientific manner. As you so rightly put it You can arrange the facts, but try not to stretch them or twist them.
TL :)
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Good for you!
It wasn't supposed to be a sermon... trying to make things fit is half the fun of it, isn't it? But the danger is one ends up climbing up the wrong tree: and then there's nothing to do but throw coconuts at the passers-by... I'm just wary because once a wrong connection is published everyone copies it, and like letting a ferret out of a sock in the wrong place, you never get it back.
Keep us posted. :) M
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Will certainly keep you posted on any findings M. Its okay, didn't think it was a sermon, just good advice. Am interested to see if Ann Gibbins had any children with Mr Hughes, by the time of the Bishop marriage I cannot imagine that subject was being considered. As long as I come up with a new lead or two I don't really mind. TL 8) :)
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Dear Totally Leicr,
Are you still stuck with the Gibbinses? I have been digging into them lately and I believe the key to your George, Ann (Bishop/Hughes) and Henry - and a Thomas - lie in the two P.C.C. Gibbins wills, one for Thomas Gibbins of Hallaton died 1796, and one for Henry Gibbins died 1838. You can download them direct from NAO. The Archdeaconry mainly don't help to unscramble your particular logjam with the Johnsons, but the PCC Thomas 1796 I think does.
Basically I think Thomas Gibbins (d 1796) married Elizabeth Ward 24 March 1753 at Blaston, and had Elizabeth (1755), Thomas (1756), William (1759), Jane (1761), Mary (1763), Henry (1765 - who died in 1838 and wrote a will), John (1767), Sarah (1770) and Robert (1772) - ! Elizabeth m Francis Osborn 1792: Jane married William Greenwood and had four children, the first three of them at Stamford, Lincs (1781) and the fourth, (James), at Ketton by Tixover in Rutland: Sarah had an unofficial son Richard and Robert had a son William.
The two important children of old Thomas for you are
(1) Thomas 1756, who married Elizabeth (I think it must be Elizabeth Dixon) at Hallaton in 1781 and had a huge string of children starting in 1782 - something like 17 of them - of whom nearly all died in infancy. However the second and third are George (bp 2 Feb 1783 Hallaton) and Ann (bp 14 Apr 1784) (I think, later Ann Hughes, then Ann Bishop), Thomas (bp 23 May 1788) and HENRY (you were looking for a Henry there, and I said we'd have to invent him!!) baptized 21 Dec 1800. [Ann 1782 was the first child and a mortality 1782, and there was an infant Henry in 1793]. The Thos & Eliz infant mortalities come right down in a continuous annual run to January 1800, so there is no problem with the gap in date between Thomas and Henry. In 1796, old Thomas in his will (codicil) refers to his three grandchildren by his eldest son Thomas, namely George Ann and Thomas - evidently as Henry is not yet born.
(2) Then there is Old Thomas's daughter Mary (1763). She made two marriages, both in Hallaton. The first is to John Ward a farmer (8 July 1783), and there are 7 children, mostly girls, of whom the only male to survive is Bryan (25 April 1791). He lived til 1855. But John Ward died around 1796 (Jane 1795 is his last child), and then Mary Gibbins (really by then, WARD, but married using her maiden name) married Thomas Johnson on 26 Nov 1798, and they had four children as well, namely Thomas (14 July 1799), William (5 Oct 1800), Ann Jane (27. June 1802) and Lucy (23 June 1805 - she died in 1839).
Then according to Henry Gibbins's will of 1838, (i.e. Mary Gibbins/Ward/Johnson's brother) his nephew Thomas Johnson (1799) also had a daughter called Ann Johnson.
For Ann Gibbins to be the aunt of your George Gibbins who is the miller at Thurmaston, George's father Henry has to be Ann's (much) younger brother Henry Gibbins (21.Xii.1800) and therefore his wife is Ann Jane Johnson (27,VI.1802).
It would therefore go like this:
* Old Thomas is the grandfather
* Thomas (1756) his son married Elizabeth Dixon 1781, Ann 1784 was their daughter, and Henry 1800 their much younger son.
* Mary (1763) sister of Thos 1756 married Thomas Johnson (her second husband) Hallaton 1798, and Ann Jane 1802 was her daughter.
* Henry son of Thomas and Elizabeth married his first cousin Ann Jane Johnson daughter of Thomas and Mary.
* George the miller of Thurmaston was the son of Henry and Ann Jane, and therefore the nephew of Ann (Gibbins/Hughes/Bishop), his father's elder sister.
Q.E.D.?
If you go for this, I THINK I can link you back to Henry Gibbins who died 1672.
PS Having said all that, it is still not DEFINITE that that is who Henry was. The 1838 Testator (Uncle Henry) makes a bequest to Ann Jane (Johnson) Gibbins his niece, but protects it from her husband's use or Coverture specifically. He names the husband as Henry Gibbins, Grazier, of Hallaton, but doesn't leave him anything, though he does make bequests to Ann Bishop - whom he identifies as his brother Thomas Gibbins's daughter - and to her brother Thomas, but not to her brother George. So Henry, if he was indeed that brother of Ann's, doesn't get his own bequest, and is prevented from making use of Ann Jane's little windfall. She, on the other hand, gets quite a good mention as she not only has the annual dividends from an investment of £150, for life, or until she chooses to dissolve the investment, not liable to the controul, debts or engagements of her present or any future husband, but later on in the will she also gets a separate lump sum bequest of £50.
All this doesn't rule out Henry being Ann's younger brother, but it does pose the question why uncle Henry didn't leave him anything if so. Perhaps he was inclined to debt and they preferred to make sure that Ann Jane was going to be provided for.
Anyhow there is much to ponder and follow up here.
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I haven't followed this thread in detail but the following are the Gibbins in my transcript of Hallaton.a
Baptisms
27 6 1730 mary d thomas gibins
26 12 1731 john s thomas jane gibins
26 7 1738 john s thomas jane gibbins
1 6 1740 elizabeth d thomas jane gibbins
10 6 1742 henry s thomas jane gibbins
3 10 1742 william s william sarah gibbins
19 4 1744 thomas s thomas jane gibins
19 4 1744 william s william sarah gibins
7 3 1747 elizabeth d william sarah gibbins
6 9 1747 thomas s thomas sarah gibbins
26 2 1748 william s thomas sarah gibbins
4 5 1750 thomas s william sarah gibbins
14 6 1750 john s henry elizabeth gibbins
29 11 1750 benjamin s william catharine gibbins
5 4 1751 henry s thomas sarah gibbins
4 3 1753 william s william catharine gibbins
13 6 1753 mary d thomas sarah gibbins
30 6 1754 edward s thomas sarah gibbins
13 2 1755 elizabeth d thomas elizabeth gibbins
30 12 1756 thomas s thomas elizabeth gibbins
16 9 1758 edward s thomas sarah gibbins
1 1759 catharine d william catherine gibbins
1 1759 william s thomas elizabeth gibbins
26 2 1761 jane d thomas elizabeth gibbins
11 7 1762 mary d william catharine gibbins
15 4 1763 mary d thomas elizabeth gibbins
28 2 1765 henry s thomas elizabeth gibbins
10 11 1765 jane d john elizabeth gibbins
9 7 1767 john s thomas elizabeth gibbins
25 12 1767 john s john elizabeth gibbins
23 2 1770 sarah d thomas elizabeth gibbins
14 4 1770 elizabeth d john elizabeth gibbins
17 5 1772 robert s thomas elizabeth gibbins
16 5 1784 susannah d thomas elizabeth gibbins
12 12 1792 john s thomas sarah gibbins
31 5 1795 susannah d thomas sarah gibbins
6 5 1798 elizabeth d thomas sarah gibbins
21 12 1800 henry s thomas elizabeth gibbins
15 2 1801 william s thomas sarah gibbins
12 10 1801 john s john elizabeth gibbins
1 5 1803 mary d john elizabeth gibbins
13 11 1803 sarah d thomas sarah gibbins
3 6 1804 robert s john elizabeth gibbins
22 6 1806 elizabeth d john elizabeth gibbins
6 3 1808 ann d john elizabeth gibbins
15 4 1810 thomas s john elizabeth gibbins
? 11 1811 jane s john elizabeth gibbins
25 4 1814 william s john elizabeth gibbins
28 4 1816 thomas s john elizabeth gibbins
22 11 1817 george s john elizabeth gibbins
27 2 1820 henry s john elizabeth gibbins
20 8 1821 elizabeth d john mary gibbins
30 8 1821 frances d john elizabeth gibbins
11 2 1823 william s john mary gibbins
20 6 1824 joseph s john elizabeth gibbins
27 12 1825 anne d john mary gibbins
29 5 1826 elizabeth ann d henry ann gibbins
2 9 1827 kezia d richard mary gibbins
6 1828 ann maria d henry jane gibbins
6 6 1830 thomas s henry ann jane gibbins
4 3 1832 mary d henry ann gibbins
22 9 1833 jane d henry ann jane gibbins
8 6 1834 alfred s william eleanor gibbins
24 8 1835 mary d william frances gibbins
22 9 1835 jane d henry ann jane gibbins
8 3 1836 louisa d william elinor gibbins
1 9 1837 amelia d henry ann jane gibbins
2 8 1838 christina d william elizabeth gibbins
27 9 1838 elizabeth d william frances gibbins
28 6 1840 fanny d henry ann jane gibbins
11 10 1840 elinor d william elinor gibbins
12 4 1841 william s william frances gibbins
8 11 1846 brian william s william frances gibbins
1 4 1853 emily d william eleanor gibbins
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Marriages
John King Great Easton Sarah Gibbins otp 31 5 1741
William Johnson Elizabeth Gibbins 2 1 1749
Thomas Fawks Colliweston Elizabeth Gibbins Otp 3 3 1752
John Wing Elizabeth Gibbins 2 7 1755
William Warren Maidwell, Northants Ann Gibbins 9 1 1758
John Cogan Rothwell Catharine Gibbins 9 1760
Robert Grant Sarah Gibbons Otp 26 1 1764
John Reeve Melham/Nelham Elizabeth Gibbons Otp 23 2 1773
William Greenwood St George In Stanford, Lincs Jane Gibbins otp 7 8 1780
John Ward Mary Gibbins 8 7 1783
John Pain Medbourne Jane Gibbins otp 15 9 1788
Frances Osborn Colliweston, Northamptonshire Elizabeth Gibbins otp 16 1 1792
Henry Spencer Cranhoe Mary Gibbins otp 12 7 1796
James Buzzard Elizabeth Gibbins botp 11 2 1800
William Baines Ann Gibbins botp 28 4 1816
Henry Ward Elizabeth Gibbins botp 2 6 1824
Thomas Holland Susannah Gibbins botp 23 8 1827
Thomas Gibbins Otp Jane Bond glooston 14 3 1736
Thomas Gibbins Sarah Carter 9 10 1745
Henry Gibbins Elizabeth Sewell 16 10 1748
Thomas Gibbins Ann Lewin 17 5 1759
William Gibson Great Bowden Mary Paine otp 23 4 1775
William Gibbon Great Bowden Mary Paine otp 1776
Thomas Gibbins Elizabeth Dixon botp 31 12 1781
Thomas Gibbins Elizabeth Burton Widow botp 5 12 1783
William Gibbins Gainsborough, Lincs Elizabeth Bosden otp 9 5 1793
John Gibbins Elizabeth Bolton botp 25 4 1798
John Gibbins Elizabeth Pateman botp 17 10 1800
John Gibbins Ann Blythe botp 16 4 1815
Richard Gibbins Otp Mary Tunnicliffe Otp 11 5 1826
William Gibbins Blaston Martha Tunnicliffe Otp 1 12 1829
Richard Gibbins Elizabeth Sanderson Sp botp 18 9 1834
Burials
thomas gibbins 9 5 1730
mary gibbins 10 6 1733
william gibbins 1 4 1734
william gibbins 11 1 1734
sarah gibbins 25 2 1734
william gibbins 12 7 1736
william gibbins 5 11 1742
john gibbins 22 3 1742
prudence gibins 27 3 1743
robert gibins 14 5 1743
william gibbins 13 1 1743
benjamin gibins 4 5 1744
ann gibbins 11 12 1745
jane gibbins 15 11 1747
katharine gibbins 15 11 1747
thomas gibbins 14 5 1748
mary gibbins 18 12 1754
edward gibbins 8 7 1755
sarah gibbins 4 6 1757
susannah gibbins 9 3 1759
thomas gibbins 3 1760
henry gibbins 20 9 1760
william gibbins 13 5 1763
elizabeth gibbins 21 3 1764
elizabeth gibbins 12 7 1764
elizabeth gibbins 9 11 1764
thomas gibbins 18 6 1765
edward gibbins 4 6 1767
william gibbons 30 10 1773
jane gibbons 4 11 1773
sarah gibbins 3 8 1779
ann gibbins 24 11 1782
sarah gibbins 24 7 1784 10w 6d
elizabeth gibbins chapelry of st michael in blaston 24 2 1786 8m
elizabeth gibbins blaston 25 8 1786 13w
mary gibbins 18 10 1787 18w
frances gibbins blaston 29 8 1789 16w
william gibbins blaston 11 11 1790 3m
elizabeth gibbins 9 1 1791 30
thomas gibbins 23 2 1791 68
elizabeth gibbins blaston 3 11 1791 8m
william gibbins 4 10 1792 76?
henry gibbins 28 1 1793 inf
ann gibbins 1 7 1793 69
robert gibbins blaston 24 1 1794 4months
jane gibbins blaston 24 4 1795 7m
william gibbins 6 5 1796 78
thomas gibbins 12 7 1796 73
elizabeth gibbins 25 10 1799 65
susanna gibbins blaston 6 5 1800 15m
john gibbins 2 6 1804 72
elizabeth gibbins 1 5 1808 6
catharine gibbins 21 5 1808 81
william gibbins 21 9 1808 7
thomas gibbins 17 6 1811 1
elizabeth gibbins 22 6 1813 44
elizabeth gibbins 15 4 1814 79
john gibbins 1 1 1816 50
mary gibbins 2 6 1821 18
elizabeth gibbins 25 4 1822 8 months
sarah gibbins 14 10 1822 63
elizabeth gibbins hallaton 19 11 1824 45
john gibbins hallaton 2 11 1826 57
thomas gibbins blaston 29 3 1827 70
robert gibbins hallaton 18 4 1827 22
thomas gibbins hallaton 28 6 1827 77
mary gibbins hallaton 8 7 1828 28
martha gibbins blaston 18 5 1831 24
mary gibbins blaston 2 8 1831 7 m
jane gibbins hallaton 5 6 1834 9 m
thomas gibbins 29 10 1835 47
henry gibbins 24 8 1838 73
elizabeth gibbins 17 1 1842 81
emma gibbins 8 3 1842 1y 5m
helen elizabeth gibbins 10 10 1852 3 months
emily gibbins 2 4 1853 2 weeks
sarah gibbins 20 5 1854 84
ellen gibbins 8 1 1856 40
louise gibbins 17 4 1856 20
christina gibbins 29 1 1859 21
henry gibbins 22 8 1860 60
richard gibbins 22 12 1866 68
elizabeth gibbins 26 1 1869 71
I hope this hasn't muddied the waters too much.
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Totally Leics - I wonder if I can ask if you might connect with some Gibbinses I'm researching?
I have a John William Cove GIBBINS b. approx 1860 in Leicester (according to the 1881 census) who is a bit of a mystery at the moment.
He may also have been known as Ernest (his son certainly thought so anyway!).
I have him in Hastings, Sussex in 1890 when his son Victor Arthur was born but can't find him so far after that.
Also, Victor seemed to change his name to GIBBONS which confuses things further.
John/Ernest calls himself an 'actor' - family story goes that he worked in the circus (a lion tamer along with his wife who were both killed by the lions....) - so I think he might be fairly itinerant, though he was in Hastings in 1881 too.
He married Margaret Hannah MEWBURN (though can't find the marriage) sometime between 1881 & 1890. She is a bit of a mystery too.
Any help appreciated, Katy
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The title of your enquiry should be 'The Elusive Gibbins/Gibbons of Medbourne and Tugby, Leicestershire'. How elusive they are I am not sure. It is just a matter of looking in the right place. I also suspect that many of them still live in the area even if they have changed the spelling of their last name to Gibbons which I know has occurred in one case.
I saw your enquiry regarding the elusive Gibbins in RootsChat.com whilst trawling around Google. I am sorry it has taken so long to find it. In that enquiry for information I noticed references to Thomas Gibbins who married Jane Freestone and one of his sons William who married Elizabeth Brewster. Further on it was noted that William had seven children. That is correct. They were:
Thomas; B. 10th November 1800 D. 28 December 1800,
Henry; B. 3rd November 1801,
Sarah; B. 4th January 1804,
Robert; B. 15th December 1805,
William; B. 7th December 1807,
Elizabeth; B. 3rd April 1810, and
Jane; B. 21st February 1813.
Of those children my main interest has been in Henry who married Ann Phillips. In 1852 Henry and his entire family immigrated on the 'Duke of Richmond' as Assisted Migrants to Port Fairy, Victoria, Australia. They arrived in Australia in March 1853.
Finding employment they settled down in Port Fairy they lived in Union Street. Henry finally died there on the 8th January 1855. His three sons: William, Francis and Edward, went on to run a carriage business, hotels and go into farming in around Western Victoria. All up Henry had ten children the last one Ann dying on the voyage out. A search of the Byaduk (Victoria, Australia) Pioneers will produce a photo of the said pioneers in 1907 outside the Byaduk Methodist Church. One of those pioneers was:
“William Gibbins: 1837-1925, born Tugby, Leicestershire, England, son of Henry Gibbins and Ann Phillips. William married in 1863 at Byaduk, Vic to Sarah Clarke (1844-1903), born Suffork, England, daughter of Samual Clarke and Maria Pratt.”
Other members of the family having been given land grants which they leased from the government moved further north to Kalkee; 18 miles north of Horsham, Victoria.
The history of Henry and Ann Gibbins' family has been written up in a limited edition family history book by Melva Gibbins titled 'They Came From Leicestershire: A history of the Decendants of Henry and Ann Gibbins in Australia from 1853-1988'
Another very recent (2010) little book of interest would be: 'Tugby & Keythorpe Through The Ages' by Maureen Bullows. The Gibbins/Gibbons get quite a few mentions in it.
As for those left in Leicestershire I know that one family have since changed their surname from Gibbins to Gibbons. I suggest you follow up this line of inquiry. For instance typing into Google Gibbins Medbourne will bring up a number of instances of Gibbins/Gibbons. How you sort them out may requre someone on the spot.
I hope you find this useful,
Robert Gibbins
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Hi All
Re: Robert Gibbins Milton Ernest Bedfordshire ( through Hallaton apparently)
I wish to thank everyone involved in this discussion as I believe you all have contributed sledgehammers to a brick wall I have had. I still need confirmations but I am confident I am 90% through the wall.
I have inherited some family info that was/is at odds with what is here but I am happy to recognise the 1st rule of genealogy ' Just because someone says so doesn't mean its right'
Background.
My dads cousin had been given some information from a person in England at a time when Typewriters and Airmail were the only tools available for us in the outposts. Now this information was purported to be from Headstone Info so was taken as gospel.
This stated that Robert was born 1765 and died 1815. He did die in 1815 and he did live in Bedfordshire, but its his birth and ancestry that has been missing. He married Elizabeth Swannell in 1803 and had at least 6 children between 1804 and 1814. I am descended through William Pancoust/Pancras ( I believe Pancoust) Gibbins the 1st born.
Where this board has helped is that Roberts 3rd child Henry had 7 children in the Bromham Beds area. ( I promise I will get back to Leicestershire). 1 of Henrys sons was named Bryan Ward Gibbins which links through Family Naming Patterns to Mercians post
(2) Then there is Old Thomas's daughter Mary (1763). She made two marriages, both in Hallaton. The first is to John Ward a farmer (8 July 1783), and there are 7 children, mostly girls, of whom the only male to survive is Bryan (25 April 1791). He lived til 1855. But John Ward died around 1796 (Jane 1795 is his last child), and then Mary Gibbins (really by then, WARD, but married using her maiden name) married Thomas Johnson on 26 Nov 1798, and they had four children as well, namely Thomas (14 July 1799), William (5 Oct 1800), Ann Jane (27. June 1802) and Lucy (23 June 1805 - she died in 1839).
But the brickwall is that Mercian says that Robert was born in 1772 .
Can someone confirm that the Robert born in 1772 was the one who moved to Milton Ernest and had enough funds to purchase the Manor there or am I still looking elsewhere?
From Milton Ernest History
Mrs. Stuckley later owned the manor and left it by will to Withers Bramston, (fn. 42) who was holding in 1799. (fn. 43) The same year Arthur Bramston sold it to Robert Gibbins, (fn. 44) whose name appears in the Inclosure Award in 1803. (fn. 45)
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Hi dgibbins02 I think I can help you with that a bit.
The date 17.v.1772 for the Hallaton baptism of Robert Gibbins falls in a series which I read as follows: children of Thomas Gibbins (1723-1796) and Elizabeth Ward, married St Michael Blaston 24.iii.1753, seem to be: (1) Elizabeth (bap 13.ii.1755, d. 30.iii.1817), married Francis Osburn of Collyweston at Hallaton, 16.i.1792, and she has an MI at Hallaton. (2) Thomas (bap. 30.xii.1756, d. 24.iii.1827), who mar Elizabeth (?Dixon, 31.xii.1781): she died 12.i.1842 aged 82 (MI at Hallaton). (3) William bap 5.i.1759 (no more info). (4) Jane (bap 26.ii.1761, d. before 1792), mar. William Greenwood (& 4 children at Stanford and Ketton by Tixover, 1781-87); (5) Mary (bap. 15.iv.1763, who made two marriages, first John Ward 1783, second Thomas Johnson 1798, as described in earlier message above): (6) HENRY (28.iii.1765-29.vii.1838), who lived at Hallaton with Sarah his sister and left an important WILL; (7) John (12.vii.1767); (8 ) Sarah (22.ii.1770-16.v.1854 aged 84, natural mother of Richard Gibbins) and lastly, (9) Robert baptized 17.v.1772. Now he might have died and there could be another Robert a year or two later, but either this 1772 Robert or a clone of him must be the one you have down for 1775.
Because, in the will of this HENRY (written 1835, proved 1839), which you need to get hold of, (it's the P.C.C. will of Henry Gibbins the elder of Hallaton, so you should be able to see it for free in Ancestry or pay a small sum from T.N.A.) he lists all sorts of interesting relationships and especially of interest to you, he leaves 'the sum of fifty pounds to my nephew William Pancras Gibbins son of my late brother Robert Gibbins' so that leaves no doubt at all who Robert is.
It means that Robert is the son of Thomas and Elizabeth, as above: this Thomas has the PCC will dated 1796, Thomas Gibbins of Halloughton Grazier ('my sons Henry Gibbins John Gibbins Robert Gibbins and William Gibbins the sum of sixty pounds apiece' etc.... 'Bryan Ward son of my said son-in-law John Ward by Mary his wife...' etc etc). As I figure it, this Thomas is the son of Thomas Gibbins (who died in 1743 and left a will) and his wife Jane Pateman: and that Thomas who died in 1743 was apparently the son of Henry Gibbins who died in 1692 (leaving a will) and his (?second) wife Sarah, who left a will dated 1734/5. Henry (first marriage) is my 8 x great grandfather and therefore his father also Henry (married to Alis), who died at Hallaton in 1679 and left a will, is my 9 x g -gf. From that early will you can trace the division of the land and Closes which the Gibbinses acquired in the 17th century being passed down through various brothers and uncles.
I hope this is all interesting to you (dear long-lost coz.), and not too repetitous... I hadn't really looked at this posting for ages, but it's exciting to make the link!
It would be really helpful to me if - if you have them handy - you could post the children of Robert with their dates and places, somewhere in this forum. It's very nice to be able to add something about him.
Thanks and best wishes
Mercian
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Wow
Thank you Mercian. :)
I will take my time going through all that. Its fascinating where it all takes us.
As requested
Robert Gibbins married Elizabeth Swannell in Tyringham Buckingham 31.March.1803 Elizabeth was 20.
They had 6 children that I know of
From IGI/FS site
William Pancras christened 22.June.1804 died 18 June 1871 ( he is my direct ancestor) married Cyanna Alison Coles
He had 12 children
Robert Gibbins christened 17 November 1805 died 27 March 1807
Henry Ward Gibbins christened 26 April 1807 died ca June 1889 ( Bromham Beds) married Elizabeth Hulatt
He had 7 children
Bryan Ward Gibbins christened 19 July 1808 died 16 January 1873 no marriage info
Mary Gibbins born 31 October 1810 christened Harpur St Wesleyan-Methodist Bedford 12 November 1813 died ?? married Thomas Crad(d)ock
Elizabeth Gibbins born 26 August 1813 (as above with Mary 12 November 1813 died 23 May 1814
All born Milton Ernest Bedfordshire
And as Robert was listed as dying in 1815 I am confident 6 is all
These dates may be out by a few months but thats the basics I have
I went with Pancoust for William as the info I had suggested William Swannell ( Elizabeths father) married a Mary Pancoust. William Swannell was born in Pavenham Bedfordshire and I wont go further as it is ''internet genealogy'' without sources. 8) - though it gives direction.
I will take your advice on the will as some of my info on the Swannells came from an online will.
So , is Leicestershire somewhere I can put on a resume or do I put a neighbouring county ;D
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Hi dgibbins02 I think I can help you with that a bit.
It means that Robert is the son of Thomas and Elizabeth, as above: this Thomas has the PCC will dated 1796, Thomas Gibbins of Halloughton Grazier ('my sons Henry Gibbins John Gibbins Robert Gibbins and William Gibbins the sum of sixty pounds apiece' etc....
Along with the money from Elizabeths grandfather William Swannell 1729-1807
To my grandchildren Mary Swannell Ann Swannell Elizabeth Swannell and Martha Swannell the daughters of my late son Edward Swannell deceased a legacy of £200 between them when they attain the age of 21 years
It seems they did alright. This lead to further complications in further years as Williams son Richard ( Roberts brother ) suicided after NOT receiving an expected amount or lesser amount
The only reason; witness could imagine for his committing this act was that his father had willed him less money than to the other members of the family. Witness had received a copy of the will some months ago, and witness's wife told him that she had informed the deceased that he had been left £200 less than his brothers' legacies. Deceased did not see the will, nor did he ever speak to witness on the subject, but he mentioned it to his brother, and referred to the circumstance that he had received no answer to his letters. (some info cut here)— Previous to the deceased being informed of the contents of the will he did not show the smallest mental derangement, nor did he after wards.
From Trove ( great Australian content FREE newspaper site)
I now have so much to chase up. Once again thankyou Mercian and others who contributed
D
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dgibbins02,
Glad to be of use! I am sure your 'Pancoust' will be right if you have found the name in the previous generations. I looked at the Henry Gibbins 1839 will in Ancestry again and it does say 'Pancras', but this is just a transcript into the Canterbury Prerogative Court Registers, not even a filed copy which might be written by a solicitor (let alone a holograph draft by anyone who actually knew W Pancoust Gibbins in person) so by scribal ignorance or chinese whispers it would be perfectly natural for 'Pancoust' to be transformed into 'Pancras'.
As the Gibbins ancestry in Hallaton goes back to before the Civil War I'm sure you can add Leicestershire to your C.V. - without a blush! The Henry Gibbins the elder who made his will in 1679 (Leics Record Office, Wigston) bought various lands in Hallaton in order to make them into parcels to bequeath to his heirs. But they are there well before that - Peter Gibbins of Glooston (will 1569): Edward Gibbins of Hallaton and his wife (a widow) Elizabeth Barlow, mard. 1606 - which follows on an administration bond for Thomas Gibbins of Hallaton in 1605, maybe Edward's father? Edward and Elizabeth are mentioned in a Chancery plea over land and house in Hallaton by Bryan Satterthwaite, C2 JasI/S35/64. Edward's will is 1621 and mentions wife Elizabeth and children (unnamed), and 40s owed to Mr Thomas Gibbins. Then there are wills of William (1656/1660), Edward (1662) and Thomas Gibbins (1665/1667). There's also a connection with the Goodman family of Hallaton and Medbourne by a marriage in 1630 between Thomas Gibbins of Hallaton and Frances Goodman (licence), and the relationship is mentioned in the will (1657/1661) of Thomas Goodman referring to his cousin William Gibbins son of Frances. By the 1690s there are (at least) two clear branches of Gibbinses, one of which is represented by William Gibbins the Blacksmith (will 1690/91), and the other by Henry Gibbins the elder (will 1679) and his descendants, which is your and my line. It's going to take some luck and more research to make better sense of these earlier 17th century Gibbinses but obviously they are the predecessors of ours - so I think you can consider yourself well-rooted in Hallaton!
If I can be any more help please ask.
Mercian
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Hi My name is Robert Gibbins and I live in Epping; a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. I have been following your conversations on the 'Elusive Gibbins'.
My forbears Henry (B 3.11.1801) and Ann (nee Phillips B 1814 Weldon Northhampton, England)) came to Victoria, Australia on the Duke of Richmond sailing from London October 20th 1852. Before then they had lived in the Tugby, Keythorpe area of Leicestershire, England. Henry had been working at Keythorpe Park as a farm labourer. Before sailing for Australia the 1851 Census records that they were living at the Fox and Hound just out of Tugby. The place is still there.
Henry's parents were Wlliam (b. 31.3.1771) and Elizabeth (nee Brewster b. 1772 and died in 1843 aged 71. She was buried in Tugby) who resided in the County of Medbourne, Leicestershire, England. I am taking all this information from a Family History Book by Melva Gibbins: 'They Came From Leicestershire' 1988.
William was the son of Thomas Gibbins and Jane Freestone (daughter of a John Freestone) who were married at Tugby on 12 November 1766. That seems to be as far as my book go back. How does any of this fit with what you have uncovered?
The family story handed down states that Henry had a falling out with his brothers/family, packed his bags and left for Australia. I can not confirm that the family had a falling out however, Henry and his family did part Britain and landed in Belfast (now Port Fairy) Victoria in March 1853. From the above book:
"Off shore from Belfast Henry and Ann, William, Francis, Mary, Edward and Jane and their luggage were sent ashore in small boats. They carried the younger children and their possessions through the surf to the mainland and set up a small camp on the cliff. Henry kept watch overnight while the others gained what sleep they could. All were afraid of what the new land held in store for them and what manner of wild animal might be in the vicinity.
Henry and William were engaged by Jacob Bull to work 2 pounds 2 shillings per week without rations. Jacob Bull was a Gunsmith but rarely followed ths profession. He operated a carrying business, but no information is available as to the type of work henry and Willaim were employed for during their 12 months period with Jacob Bull.
The following year Henry worked as a Limeburner.
On January 8th 1855, just two years after arriving in Australia Henry died at Belfast....
Ann and family live in Balfast until 1863 in Cross Street , now Union Street. They owned a weatherboard house of four rooms, with a wood stove, a seperate wash house and stables standing on 1/2 acre of ground. This property was valued at 45 pounds...."
In the 1870s the Victorian Colonial Government opened up land previously rented by large land holders. The Henry's children all applied for grants of land for farming.
William Gibbins applied and obtained land at Byaduk in south west Victoria. There is a Web Page named 'Byaduk Pioneers: Parish & Township on Scott's Creek, south of Hamilton in South-Western Victoria. There is a photograph of the pioneers with William Gibbins standing in the back row.
Francis Gibbins and his brother applied for and obtained land grants at Kalkee, just north of Horsham Victoria. Francis remained on his land until he sold it to his brother Edward 1882. Francis then moved to Jung where he ran the local Railway Hotel.
Edward remained on the farm until his son Robert Henry took over. He was my Grandfather. He married a Mary Ann Button and had six children. Just as an aside, Mary Ann was considered a shot and wonderful horse woman. Ideal for the pioneering life style they now found themselves in. The six children were Mary Elizabeth Ann b 1878: Mabel Frances b. 1879, Robert Henry b. 1881, Maud b. 26 Aug 1886, Ada b. 1888 and Alice b. 1890.
Just to confirm a source of information for you: yes the TROVE or The Australian National Libraries digital newspaper collection is both free and great. In the Horsham papers the Gibbins Family receive quite a few entries.
Hope this is of some interest. If you have any further information I'd love to hear from you
Robert Gibbins
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Hi Robert,
Your branch is really much more elusive than the one we have been talking about.
In the first place (as I expect you realize) there are two Henry Gibbinses both born about 1800-02 both with wives named Ann.
One of them, Henry Gibbins (bap. 21.xii.1800), a Grazier of sheep, married his own cousin Ann Jane Johnson (bap. 27.vi.1802) on 12.ix.1822 at Horninghold: her mother Mary Gibbins married (2nd) Thomas Johnson (26.xi.1798) - and Mary's brother Thomas (30.xii.1756-24.iii.1827) was the father of the Henry Gibbins whom Ann Jane married. These, as you rightly say, are NOT your Henry and Ann, and in the 1841 and 1851 censuses (both) they are living in Church Street, Hallaton.
Your Henry and Ann are the ones that are in Tugby in both 1841 and 1851. In 1841 they are living next door to Henry's brother Robert Gibbins and his family as follows:
'No. 2'
Henry Gibbins 35 Ag lab y
Ann Gibbins 35 y
Elizabeth Gibbins 8 y
William Gibbins 4 y
Francis Gibbins 1 y
/
Robert Gibbins 30 Ag lab y
Sarah Gibbins 25 y
Mary Gibbins 4 y
Sarah Gibbins 2 y
and the 1851 census has Henry and Ann with children William (14), Francis (10), Mary (8 ), Edward (7), Jane (4) and Ann (1), also at Tugby. BUT I think it might be Henry and Robert's parents, William Gibbins and Elizabeth Brewster, who are in Hallaton in the 1841 census:
1841: Hallaton, Gibbins's Lodge
William Gibbins 70 Ag lab y
Elizabeth Gibbins 65 n
// Mary Cursley 14 n
These two married at Medbourne in 1799. As their eldest son Thomas died an infant (10.xi.1800-28.xii.1800), Henry (3.xi.1801) was presumably the eldest son, and heir.
The top of the tree you have described stands with Thomas Gibbins and Jane Freestone, marrying at Tugby in 1766. I have been through many of the Gibbins wills for Medbourne and Hallaton, and the only Thomas Gibbins I can see among them that might fit into this time-frame is Thomas baptized Medbourne 19.iv.1744, who would therefore be about right to marry Jane, at Tugby, in 12.xi.1766. Perhaps Tugby was her parish, and perhaps the houses occupied by Robert and Henry in 1851 and 1841 were ultimately Freestone rather than Gibbins hereditaments.
IF he is the right one (and I'm not saying he is!!!!) then he would be the son of Thomas Gibbins bap. Medbourne 19.vi.1713, and his wife Jane Bond of Glooston (bap. 9.vii.1721).
To take Jane Bond (perhaps the mother of your Thomas) first, she is the elder of two daughters of the second marriage of John Bond of Glooston (bap. 5.iv.1675, d.1746), and John is the son of Edward Bond (b.c.1640, died Glooston 15.vi.1706 - tombstone) and his wife Ann, who died in 1719. There are wills for John and his mother Ann. John married first Abigail, who died 5.viii.1707, having two children Ann (1707) and Elizabeth. John's daughter Ann married William Tebbatt of Glooston and had about 10 children by him - see Tebbatt gravestones at Glooston. After Abigail died, John Bond married Marcy Sharman (born 4.i.1697, bap. 8.i.1697 at Weston-by-Welland, one of at least four children born 1692-1697 to John Sharman (c. 1670, died Cranoe 1733). Sarah Sharman must have died at or soon after the birth of Marcy, because John Sharman then married Catherine, and had 13 more children by her (births 1698-1720) before drying up. Marcy married John Bond at Glooston on 21.iv.1720, and the two daughters Jane and Mary came in 1721 and 1725 (21.xi) respectively. Mary married James Tebbatt at Glooston on 17.xii.1744, and James was the brother of the William Tebbatt who had married her half-sister Ann Bond back in 1725. But it was Jane Bond who on 14.iii.1736 at Glooston married Thomas Gibbins, who was born at Medbourne 19.vi.1713 and died there 1757. And it's because he is of Medbourne, and not of Hallaton, that I think its quite likely that he IS the father of your Thomas who, as you say, married Jane Freestone at Tugby in 1766, but afterwards lived at Medbourne.
Thomas Gibbins 1713 of Medbourne is the son of Henry Gibbins of Medbourne, who left a Leicestershire will dated 1735. He was married to an Elizabeth, and his children were Sarah (5 or 8.vi.1707), William (6.ix.1708-d.1736 & a will), Ann (17.ii.1711, married John Wade junr 15.x.1734, Medbourne); Henry (24 or 29.iii.1709, d. 1747 (will)), married Mary; Elizabeth (29.i.1714); Thomas (19.vi.1713, Medbourne) and apparently lastly John, who married Amy Barker of Great Illsborough at Stoke Albany in 1742.
And if that is right, it means that the siblings of Thomas who married Jane Freestone were, John Gibbins (26.vii.1738); Elizabeth (11.vi,.1740); Henry (10.vi.1742, d.1779 (will)), who married Elizabeth Lummis of Broughton, Northants, at Cransley 17.iii.1769; William (4.ix.1749); Jane (24.xii.1752); and John (25.vi.1755). Among these, Henry Gibbins and Elizabeth Lummis are my 5xgreat-grandparents.
Henry who died in 1735 was the eldest named son of Henry Gibbins who died in 1692 (will), and he was the son of Henry Gibbins (d. Hallaton 1679 (will)) who was married to Alis. Before that the evidence is a bit more patchy, but the Hallaton ancestry goes back to the 16th century at least. (see my previous post). These wills are in the Leicester Register Office in Wigston.
But - you can't just take my word for it!
best wishes!
Mercian
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To continue on the question of Thomas Gibbins of Medbourn, baptized 1744, the son of Thomas Gibbins (1713-1757) and Jane Bond (married Glooston 14.iii.1736).
The following wills are relevant:
A. Henry Gibbins of Medbourn, d. 1735, father of the following three brothers: To eldest son William Gibbins various lands at Hallaton including the house at East Gate in tenure of Edward Ward, etc. To sons Thomas and Henry various lands at Hallaton including the parcels called Goodmans land (etc).
B. William Gibbins of Hallaton, d. 1736 (This is William bapt. 6.ix.1708, elder brother of Thomas 1713). William died young: he gives to his brother John his mother's Jointure lands: to his brother Henry Gibbins (next) the house at Medbourn which was given to him by his grandfather Kellam or Kenelm Smith: and to Thomas Gibbins (i.e. Thomas 1713) 'the house where Edward Ward liveth which was given me by my father'. After various smaller bequests, everything else to brothers Thomas and Henry, his Executors, who were sworn on 2nd Sept 1736. Incidentally William leaves money for a mourning ring to Jane Bond 'of Glooson', who married his brother Thomas (1713) later in the same year (14.iii.1736/7 - right at the end of the Old Style year).
C. Henry Gibbins of Medbourn, d. 1747 (This is Henry bapt 24 (or 29).iii.1709, the brother between William and Thomas. Henry leaves his household goods and furniture and his Dapper Mare to his widow Mary, but all his lands and houses in Medbourne and Hallaton to his brother Thomas (i.e. Thomas 1713).
D. Thomas Gibbins of Medbourn, d. 1757 (This is Thomas 1713, brother of the two above, himself). He gives to his son Thomas (1744) in the will, granting him various pieces and parcels called Goodman's Land at Hallaton, and requiring him to pay various sums out of them to other beneficiaries, as well as making a cash bequest.
E. Henry Gibbins of Medbourn, bapt. 10.vi.1742, son of Thomas 1713, and elder brother of Thomas 1744. He died on 27.x.1779 aged 37. Bequeaths cottages closes lands and tenements in Hallaton to his widow and daughters.
These form a coherent group, and obviously the only one of these wills which might clear up the question of whether Thomas 1744 could be the same Thomas who married Jane Freestone at Tugby in 1766 (see previous post) is the last one, all the others preceding the date of the marriage in question.
This will (E) of Henry Gibbins of Medburn, Farmer 1779, mentions his wife Elizabeth, and his daughters Lydia and Elizabeth (who I note married John Waddington and Benjamin Letts respectively) but does not make any reference to his brother Thomas. Elizabeth (Lummis) his wife (who died 5.viii.1797 aged 49) died intestate, and her administration was carried out by John Waddington (for Lydia) and Elizabeth Gibbins, supported by Robert Bateman and John Smith. This does not help with Thomas.
Worth placing on record that this Henry Gibbins and Elizabeth (Lummis) had tombstones side by side in Medbourne churchyard. Unfortunately the Henry Gibbins stone was deliberately snapped off its base by a person testing the safety of the stones with a pressure machine in the year 2009, and when last seen was lying broken on the ground. Such official contempt for the historicity of the monuments and their environment can only be deplored. The inscriptions are (or were):
'In Memory of/Henry Gibbins/who departed this life/October the 17th 1779/aged 37 years.
Farewell dear wife and my dear children too
God would not longer let me live with you
Therefore he parts us for a little time
And suddenly has cropt me in my prime.'
And Elizabeth's stone:
'In Memory of/Elizabeth wife of/Henry Gibbins/who died August 5th 1797/aged 49 years.
My dear Redeemer is above
Him will I go to see
And all my friends in Christ below
Shall soon come after me.'
There is nothing in all this to show if Thomas 1744 was, or was not, the Thomas Gibbins of Medbourne who married Jane Freestone in 1766 at Tugby.
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Hi
I'm afraid I've only skipped through all the replies - so many names and dates! However, I am wondering if your Sarah Gibbins is Sarah M Gibbins, born abt 1883, whose father was Thomas Gibbins born 1855. He owned a water mill in Thurmaston, where he milled flour, and he also had a bakery there too. His wife, Sarah's mother, was Ellen, nee Boot.
Thomas and Ellen had four other children - Thomas B, Constance Nelly, Frances Mary and George A.
If this is your Sarah Gibbins, then we are connected by marriage, as Constance Nelly Gibbins married my gt gt uncle George William Hunt.
On the subject of Thurmaston, I know a lovely lady who is with the Thurmaston Heritage Group and I suspect that what she doesn't know about Thurmaston and its many previous inhabitants isn't worth knowing! I don't want to put her email address on here, but if you'd like to message me then I can email her and make sure it is OK to pass her details onto you.
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You seem to know so much about the Gibbins. I am specifically looking for a birth record and any info on kezia gibbins born Hallaton 1827 apparently to Richard Gibbins. Who was her mother ? And who was Richards mother and father ? Any ideas please x
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Hi Sarah
Odd. A census for 1841 has a Kezia living with a Sarah Gibbins aged 60
A census for 1851 has a Kezia living with a Richard and Elizabeth both born 1798ish.
Yet a FreeReg baptism record has a Kezia born to Richard and Mary. There is an 1826 marriage between a Richard and Mary Tunnicliff in 1826 in Hallaton. So a strong assumption can be made that Richard and Mary Tunnicliff are Kezias parents
Mary must have died as there is a marriage in 1834 for Richard and Elizabeth Sanderson
Hope this gives you a start :)
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Would Sarah Gibbins be her grandmother and mother to Richard ? I just can't work it out. Who even was Richards father ?
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Also kezia lived her last years in Bedford. Do you suppose family originated from there. I'm confused
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My own branch of the family lived in Milton Ernest and according to some of the fantastic support and info I received as a result of this thread , there was also a connection with Kettering.
My direct ancestor William married a Cyanna Cole/s and christened one of their sons James Montague Cole Gibbins ( b 1846) I have pencilled in Cyannas parents as James and Mary but haven't gotten any further
It seems the connections may be through Kettering and non-conformists especially Methodist/Wesleyans
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So that would mean my James montages Cole born 1912 would have been cyanas brother And she named her son after him ??
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I would assume that , but I have no connection yet. :)
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A couple of questions?
Does anyone know what happened to Mercian? He hasn't been on RootsChat since February 2015. Second: DavidG02 I see by the flag under your name you live in Australia as I do. Which part? It is amazing how many Gibbins' came out to Australia. I even found one buried just miles from me at Yan Yean Cemetery. She had married a William Bodycoat and came to Victoria in 1844. Now for that small world bit. The Bodycoats live only at Wollert just few miles from me and one of them taught school where and when my children attended it. So you can see it is a small world
My family history you can read on page 5 of this forum.
Robert Gibbins
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Does anyone know why in 1886 there was a court case between Ann Jane Gibbins (widow) being the plaintiff and kezia Cole (nee Gibbins) and James montague Cole ? Please
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Hay all, I've been to Hallaton today and found and got pictures of gravestones of Sarah Gibbins mother to Richard. And of Richard. Also Henry Gibbins and Thomas and wife Elizabeth ( the son of Thomas and Elizabeth) and a few more that I have yet to place exactly. Was a fab day
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Great stuff Sarah
Would that be Thomas and Elizabeth 1723-1796ish? Can you confirm death dates please if it is these 2 :)
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Not the parents unfortunately it's the son of them two Thomas that married eliz Dixon ? He died in 1827 and her in 1842. Confirmed. Henry another son confined died in 1838. Have pics is people want a copy. 1 want to go back today to see if I can find Jane who married a greenwood and an eliz who married an Osborn. Also I got a couple of johns I need to place m so exited
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I looked a little further and thought it might be - hoped it wouldn't but that's ok.
Always exciting to come across physical evidence of what you have seen in records. :)
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Can anybody tell me or hazard a guess who was Richard Gibbins father was ? Born to Sarah Gibbins 1799 blaston plus if anybody can tell me who Sarah's mum and dad were please
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Sorry to jump onto your thread but I was wondering whether anyone might have information on Martha Gibbins, born 1795 in Middleton, Northamptonshire (possibly) but moved to Hallaton after her marriage to John Liquorish in 1814. I think her parents were William b.1760 and Mary (nee Maides) and she had at least 3 elder brothers - William (1781), John (1786) and Henry (1793). Martha had 6 children, the last 2 were born years after her husband's death so their parentage is a whole other question, particularly my gg grandfather Skeffington b.1833.
Any additional information would be gratefully received
Alison (nee Clements)
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Can anybody tell me or hazard a guess who was Richard Gibbins father was ? Born to Sarah Gibbins 1799 blaston plus if anybody can tell me who Sarah's mum and dad were please
Hi Sarah
I hope this finds you. I have left a note about Kezia in another thread . FindMyPast have Leicestershire Parish records available if you have a sub I think you can find a lead to who Richards father was possibly
There is an entry for a Richard Broughton Gibbins b 1798 . I would strongly suggest looking for any Broughton men in the region. Good luck
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Hi All,
I am tracing my mother's side of out family.
My mother was the daughter of George Archie Gibbins
I am stuck here befor Henry 1800 and I think I everything correct so far
Henry 1800 married Anne Jane Johnson 1802 in 1824 they had
George 1824
Hannah 1828
Thomas 1830
Mary 1832
Jane 1836
Emilia 1838
Fanny 1841
George 1824 married Sarah Carvell 1824 in 1852 they had
Mary Ellen ?
Eliza Anne 1854
Thomas 1855
William Bishop 1857
Johnson 1860
Thomas 1855 married Ellen Parker 1851 in ??? (help)
They had
Constance N 1880 who married George William Hunt (date?)
May 1885
Frances 1884 married Harold Bickley (1889?)
George Archie 1887 married Mary Pickering 1897 in (1922?)
They had only one daughter
Margaret Edith 1927
Any help gladly received to fill in missing dates too