RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: perilsofpauline1 on Friday 29 May 09 08:10 BST (UK)

Title: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Friday 29 May 09 08:10 BST (UK)
I have a birth certificate for a Dennis Charles SMITHSON (b.1891 Brisbane) that says his father Alfred James SMITHSON, was born in Manning River NSW, he was a drover, aged 57 years , but I can find no birth marriage or death for Alfred anywhere. His three children were all born in Qld between 1887 and 1891.Can anyone help find this elusive man please???
Pauline
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 29 May 09 11:05 BST (UK)
Hello  there Pauline can you also tell us  his mothers name as well 

Jenn
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 29 May 09 11:15 BST (UK)
I  had a look  and the mothers names was Minnie Metherelle Summers.

you say he was 57 years not impossible but !!

Jenn
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: jorose on Friday 29 May 09 11:53 BST (UK)
Minnie Metherell Summers was born in Devon in 1865 and seems to have come to Queensland aged 13 in 1878 with her family.
She also seems to have ended up as "Minnie Metherelle Johnston" on the Australia voting lists, if anyone can take a look at who else was with her then.
Son Wilfred seems to have married as "Johnston" in 1909.

There are children listed in 1896 and 1903 as the children of William Johnston and Minnie Metherelle Summers (or Minnie Metherille Summers). 

So somewhere between 1891 and 1896 Alfred dies/leaves the family, and Minnie and William get together, but I can't find any marriages at all for Minnie.
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: judb on Friday 29 May 09 14:21 BST (UK)
Qld electoral rolls:
1913 and 1919
Minnie Metherelle Johnston, home duties at Montague St, Cooparoo
Also in Montague St, Lily Johnston, h d; William Johnston, basket maker; Wilfred Kendall Ryan Johnston, hawker

Also in 1919
Gladys Vera Elsie Johnston, machinist address given as Montague St, Stone's Corner, Cooparoo

In 1925
Minnie, William, Gladys, and Wilfred all at Montague St (seems to be in Bulimba now) also
William John Johnston, milk vendor,

I cannot see any of them after 1925.

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Friday 29 May 09 14:45 BST (UK)
Hi Judith, Jenn and Jorose,
Thanks so much for all of that info - like you I cant find any marriages for Minnie. She was supposed to have married William Johnston in London 1895 stating she was a widow, but Alfred James Smithson just seems to have disappeared.
Her youngest child Denis Charles Smithson appears to have taken the Johnstone name when he first married.
I'm very grateful for those electoral roles, also the children born to William and Minnie, but its a bit of a mystery don't you think? (No, I should be used to this kind of thing by now!!)
Warm regards from Pauline, nearly midnight in Oz
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 29 May 09 22:03 BST (UK)

Just to detail  the  children

1887/B38926 Smithson Wilfred Kendall Ryan 
1891/B48845 Smithson Denis Charles
1896/B59394 Johnston Gladys Vera Elsie   
1903/C7260 Johnston William John Adam

Does  the birth certificate say where and when  the mariage was supposed to have occurred?

Jenn 


Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: judb on Saturday 30 May 09 02:46 BST (UK)
Had a quick look on FreeBMD and could see no marriage (that would fit) in London 1894-6 for a William Johnston, nor a Minnie Smithson, or Minnie Summers.  No mention of those names on the Inward (to UK) passemger lists for the dates between 1891 and 1896. 

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

I see by the electoral rolls that Wilfred also took on the Johnston surname, by 1913 anyway.  Is it your Minnie at school in Hathersleigh, Devon with her 3 sisters in Uk census 1871?

Judith
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Saturday 30 May 09 05:34 BST (UK)
Thanks Jenn and Judith,
All the info I have is that the marriage was supposedly  in London 1895. I'm wondering if this is NOT the London in the UK? Or if there never was a marriage?
yes Judith, I think that is my Minnie with her sisters in1871. I might check to see what i can find out about the school.
Thanks everyone for all your help - I might just keep the topic open a little longer to see if anyone can find a birth marriage OR death of William Johnstone.
Cheers,
Pauline
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 30 May 09 06:02 BST (UK)
Have you  found Minnie's death at all?

if you check the Brisbane cemeteries - you will find Minnie M Johnston and probably husband (or partner) William - buried in South Brisbane - unfortunately no ages given"

Deaths would be on fiche at the library or wherever

You may have allready seen  this information

There was a child died 7 Apr 1890 - Katherine Dolores Smithson  born as Catherine Dolores Smithson - mother Sumers
Jenn
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: judb on Monday 01 June 09 03:06 BST (UK)
The family seems to have been happy to use either surname.

Wilfred's children (with Lily nee SMITH) are registered as William Arthur and Winifred Minnie SMITHSON in 1909 (twins?) but for the marriage (also 1909) Wilfred uses JOHNSTON and Lily is listed as Lily SMITHSON.  (In 1913 Wilfred is on the electoral roll as JOHNSTON)
Denis's child is also registered as SMITHSON.

There is a marriage on the index in 1929 showing surnames JOHNSON and SMITHSON, but no forenames given.

Judith
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Monday 01 June 09 04:39 BST (UK)
Thanks yet again Jenn and Judith for all that extra information.  Minnie's children sure must have had an identity crisis!!
You've really helped tremendously and I can't thank you enough. Do you ever get time to do your own research??
Warmest regards,
Pauline
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: RedMystic on Tuesday 16 July 13 00:09 BST (UK)
Hi, I know this is an older thread, but wanted to add that a connection has been made to this family through daughter Gladys Vera Elsie Johnson.

She was second wife to Archibald MacDonald. You'll see the connection at this link:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,653832.0.html

This is likely long since sorted, but I thought I'd add that there is a tree on *A* that seems to explain why some of the children of Minnie Metherelle Summers used one surname & some another. It looks like she was married 2x. (I have made contact with the tree owner & she seems open to sharing if you're still looking. This is part of her husband's tree.)

Minnie Metherelle Summers

husband: Alfred James Smithson 1834 –
Wilfred Kendall Ryan Smithson 1887 – 
Katherine Dolores Smithson 1890 – 1890
Denis Charles Smithson 1891 – 1976

William Johnston 1868 – 1931
Gladys Vera Elsie Johnston 1896 – 1984
William John Adam Johnston 1903 –
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Tuesday 16 July 13 01:24 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for responding to such an old message. I had been helping a number of people at our community centre with their family history, so will have to go back over my paperwork to see who this particular family belonged to. I'm sure they will be delighted to have a lead!
Thank you again,
Pauline
Title: Re: Alfred James SMITHSON mystery
Post by: RedMystic on Tuesday 16 July 13 01:35 BST (UK)
My pleasure. The thread is a bit complicated to follow. If your searcher is still interested & prefers, I can print out person reports.

What a generous soul you are to help at your community centre.

Happy searching.