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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Floozy on Wednesday 27 May 09 08:02 BST (UK)
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Ok this one may be difficult but will give it a try.
I am trying to confirm the parents of a Catherine Thallon who died in South Australia 1904.
I have confirmed this year by the Australian newspapers online Beta but they are still in the process in publishing full results online.
Catherine was married to Henry Thallon.
They where originally married in Tasmania but moved to Victoria where they had several children.
I believe this Catherine was previously married to a William Walker
in Tasmania and also had children from that marriage.
Her maiden name was Hay. born approx 1834.
Awhile ago some one suggested she was the sister of Elizabeth Hay who was married to William Ferguson. (Who came from Scotland and married in New Zealand before heading to Tasmania)
From family history and from 2 cousins inter marrying Elizabeth is the sister of my GG Grandmother Mary Hay who married Robert Garrett and lived in Victoria.
I have the family in the 1841 census for Scotland.
So the question is is this Catherine Hay (1st Walker, 2nd Thallon)the daughter of James Hay and Elizabeth Scott.and sister too Elizabeth Ferguson and Mary Garrett.
Please note I do not want any other information apart from the confirmation that Catherine is from this family.
:So I need parents
:Some proof of her been part of this family other than the census.
:Immigration
I have plenty of information of the other families.
cheers Floozy
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As you are probably aware there is very limited information on South Australian death certificates and for 1904 -
*Date of Death
* Name
* Sex
* Age
* Occupation
* Usual Residence
* Cause of Death
* Place of Death
* Informant
Deaths
THALLON Catherine 68 years Married Relative Henry THALLON - husband
13 Dec 1904
Residence North Adelaide Death Place North Adelaide Ade 306/253
and
THALLON Henry 78 years Married Relative not recorded
16 Sep 1909
Residence North Adelaide Death Place North Adelaide Ade S 343/367
The birth certificates of children born in Victoria would give you her place of birth.
Cando
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Thanks Cando,
As you can appeciate I do not wish to purchase of non direct relatives cert , as some people do. But I am hoping to find one who does have this information.
I live in hope on this one.
Cheers Floozy
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I assume you have seen the actual death notice in the Adelaide Advertiser (from beta newspaper site) Wed 14 December, 1904.
THALLON On 13 December, 1904 at Childers ST, North Adelaide, Catherine, the beloved wife of Henry Thallon, aged 68 years.
On page 2 of that issue of the paper is the funeral notice but it only mentions the husband and the address. Burial was at North Road cemetery.
So, if this age is correct, this gives a birth year of 1835/6 - could easily be incorrect, though.
Victorian birth certificates give good information so perhaps, at a pinch, there might just be a clue about her previous surname and children, from a birth certificate of one of her Victorian-born children. But then again.........
Judith
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You no doubt are aware of this, on the records for the children born in Victoria she is listed as HAY
Jenn
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Thanks for your replies.
Yes I am aware of all this, still looking for strong evidence to confirm she is who I think she is.
many thanks
Floozy
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The Victorian system of registration is one of the best in the world, there is plenty of useful information on both the certificates and the indexes.
What you'll find on a Victorian certificate of birth, death or marriage:
Births
Date and place of birth;
name of child and whether present or not;
name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
occupation of parents;
ages and birthplace of parents;
date and place of marriage of parents;
previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
names of witnesses;
date and place of registation.
So plenty of information to be found but as you say you don't want to purchase a cerrtificate, one can only hope that one of the many childrens descendants decides to do the family tree and an internet search will throw up their names and lead them to this post. We have seen this on numerous occasions.
Jenn
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You state you don't want any further information on the family but often fresh eyes can notice something you may have missed on known information.
From IGI - extracted record
HAY Catharine
Birth 28 Jul 1834
Baptism 24 Aug 1834 Forgandenny, Perth, Scotland
Father James HAY
Mother Elisabeth SCOTT
Is this the correct family on the census in Scotland? Not knowing a lot about Scotland I have no idea if it is the same area as the birth.
1841 Census
Living at Canal Crescent, Perth, Perthshire
Hay James 45 years
HAY Elizabeth 43 years
HAY Ann 20 years
HAY James 15 years
HAY Mary 13 years
HAY Elizabeth 11 years
HAY Isabela 9 years
HAY Robertson 7 years
HAY Catherine 5 years
HAY Charlotte 3 years
Marriage
HAY Catherine 23 years ie b c1835
WALKER William 24 years
5 Nov 1858
Sorrell Reg# 721/1858
I wont post the 2nd marriage as unfortunately no ages are recorded.
The only way I can see of linking Catherine HAY/WALKER/THALLON is the purchase of an image of one of her children's birth registrations in Victoria. Her age at the time of registering the birth, her place of birth and former name and maiden name would be on the certificates.
Have you searched in New Zealand for her possible arrival there with sister Elizabeth? Have you searched for passenger records from NZ to Tasmania?
Cheers
Cando
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Yes Cando I have all this info.
I also have extracts of James and Elizabeth Hay (nee Scott) death in Scotland.
The age is slightly out. for Catherine but thats nothing new.
And I have details of the Thallon marriage as well.
She is listed on the Victorian births of her children as Hay and She was married to Thallon as Walker according to the Tasmanian website..
Could you guide me in the right direction to look for the immergration.
I do have the marriage details of Elizabeth from a NZ Newspaper.
Not sure how Elizabeth came to NZ she may have travelled with her Husband on board one of his ships.
I do know he was the Captain of a ship called the Titan and I know a bit about the Ferguson family from a researcher who put together a history of Ferguson families. Also one of the children from the Garrett/Hay familiys married their cousin from the Ferguson/Hay marriage (cousins)
The reason why this has come about in researching Catherine is that my Great grandfather has the middle name of Thallon.
Even though Catherine didnt marry Henry Thallon until about 6 years after my Great Grandfathers birth Henry Thallon may have been known to the families.
so you can see how my brain works (clue clue clue lol)
\
but I could still be barking up a wrong tree too but that is not uncommon when doing research as we all know.
And I think I have the marraige extract for her marriage to Walker.
thanks once again.
Floozy
Yes a cert may help if it is on their?
I did find a tree belonging to some one else but it does not give me anymore clues that I dont already know.
I have emailed them but no reply
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There is a Henry Thallon appearing on the 1856 Electoral Rolls for Victoria
Electoral Year 1856
State Victoria District Talbot
Subdistrict Carisbrook
Henry Thallon MAryborough Draper on Salary of 100 pound from looks like Mckernie and Co Maryborough
So he may have been in Victoria before well before he married Elizabeth Hay
if he was born in 1831 as his death indicates then he was 25 in 1856 so it is possible that it is him in 1856
Jenn
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Yes Cando I have all this info.
Even though Catherine didnt marry Henry Thallon until about 6 years after my Great Grandfathers birth Henry Thallon may have been known to the families.
Floozy I am aware that you have the information as I mentioned others may notice something you may have missed. I think you may have missed the point of me detailing the little information that I found in a quick search.
I would say that Henry THALLON was well known to John GARRETT ;D
REAL PROPERTY ACT
Notice is hereby given that Henry Thallon and John Garrett of Richmond, Storekeepers, have applied to have brought under the provisions of the Real Property Act the land described at the foot hereof; and that the Commissioner of Titles has appointed that on the expiration of fourteen clear days from the date of this advertisement in the Government Gazette the Registrar General unless he shall in the interval receive and equeat to do so, proceed to bring such land under the provisions of the Act.
Dated Ninth day of March 1864.
THE LAND REFERRED TO
Part of portion number twenty-three, Parish of Jika-Jika, County of Bourke: Details of measurements..........Also part of the same portion lying at the north west corner having frontage to the Punt road of a hundred feet by a depth of three hundred and sixty three inches.
Horace Sampson
Assistant Registrar General
Jennings & Coote
37, Queens street, Melbourne
Solicitors for the applicants.
I suggest you place a request on the New Zealand board or have a browse of their resources board for shipping records. I have searched there albeit a while ago, and found they have lots of passenger/shipping records online.
Once again...the birth certificate of one of the children born in Victoria would give you his occupation.
If I get time later today I will search some trade directories for Victoria. I realise this doesn't give you confirmation of the details you require but it does prove another link with the families.
Cheers
Cando
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Well done Cando
you have established a link between two families of the names Floozy is chasing.
Jenn
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Sands & McDougall
1870, 1875
THALLON Henry [of R Garrett & Co] Hotham Street, St Kilda
The last birth to Henry and Catherine in Victoria was in 1877 and there is no entry for Henry in the 1880 directory. Perhaps they had moved to Adelaide by then.
Perhaps R GARRETT is Robert husband of Mary HAY.
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Cando, you are so right.
What on earth was my brain thinking.
And in saying that Robert Garrett is my
Henry Thallon Garrett father.
Henry Thallon Garret was a grain broker (merchant) also Shire President of Nunawading and at one time was a green grocer in Richmond, could it be possible that and I think his father was a grain broker too??. And yes Roberts brother was also living in Melbourne. He is buried in the same family grave.
Sacred
to the memory of
Robert GARRETT
died 29 Aug 1896 age 71 yrs
also his sons
William Scott
died 19 Apr 1871 age 18 yrs
James Hay
died 23 May 1874 age 19 yrs
and his brother
John
died 15 Sep 1885 age 63 yrs
also Mary
wife of above
Robert GARRETT
died 13 Oct 1898 age 73 yrs
and their only daughter
Mary Hay
died 26 Feb 1922 age 62 yrs.
I did not know what was Johns occupation was. So he may have been a Draper too?? or maybe something else.
Well this certainly brings the families a bit closer and how it came about that he married Catherine Hay??
Now their is no reason not to doubt this know.
But would still love to know that tiny bit of information to seal it.
So I can sort of now assume that she is. But like all my research I always put unable to confirm link in not certain.
Oh I could kiss you all
thanks cando judb and tropical
:-*
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I will have a look at the New Zealand records.
I have not yet searched shipping records for New Zealand before.
Is the trade directories online for Victoria??
Would love to see them.
Cheers Floozy
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Is the trade directories online for Victoria??
No directories online for Victoria that I am aware of. Sands & McDougall directories should be available at larger libraries and genealogy societies.
Perhaps a request for help on the NZ board and detail Elizabeth's known history etc. You could link previous posts but that may become confusing with the other family history.
I have had two forays into NZ passenger records and did find my OH's family arriving in Otago from Melbourne. Lots of records are online.
According to the death records Robert's and John's father was William.
GARRETT John
Father William Mother Mary QUINN
Richmond 53 years [?transcription error] 1885 Reg#10161
GARRETT Robert
Father Garrett William Mother Mary UNKNOWN
Richmond 71 years 1896 Reg#11245
I see you have the MI from Melbourne General Cemetery for the GARRETT's.
Good luck.
Cando
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Hi Floozy
Do you have any information on where Henry Thallon came from (before Tazmania)? I'm a Thallon and am doing some research on their tree. The majority of my line came from Fife in Scotland and a good number of them emigrated to Australia at some point. It would be interesting to know if Henry was one of the lost Thallons
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Hello
I have not traced the Thallon family as I decend down from Henry Thallon wife 's line the Hays. His wife Catherine was my Great Great grandmothers sister. (her name was Mary)
I do know that Henry Thallon was in Victoria for awhile as he worked for my GG Grandfather Robert Garrrett and his brother John,
My G Grandfather was named Henry Thallon Garrett and Catherine was his Aunt.
Please do keep in touch as I have recently heard form another Hay Decendant this week and hopefully we can find out more.
If you are a decendant of Henry and Catherine we would be very distant cousins.'
Henry and Catherine died in South Australia but you may already know this.
cheers Susan (aka Floozy)
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Fair enough Floozy.
I've had a look at my tree and there is a Henry Thallon born around the same time as your Henry in Scoonie, Fife. Improtantly he's noted in the 1851 census living in Kettle, Fife and working as a draper.
I'm not directly related to Henry but with Thallon being an unusual surname and predominantly originating from Fife I'm quite interested in tracing the different lines even if I'm not directly decended from them.
Henry's Grandfather (Robert Thallon 1751) was my great (x4) grandfather's brother.
Have you any details of Henry and Catherine's children?
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2nd marriage for Catherine Hay (Walker) m. 1867 Henry Thallon (#2384) (1831-1909)
2. Beatrice Clara Thallon (#2389) (1870-1954)
2. Arthur Thallon (#2390) (1872-1872)
2. Henry Thallon (#2391) (1868-1875)
2. Constance Thallon [Fraser] (#2392) (1874-?)
m. 1914 George Fraser (#2394) (?-?)
2. Norman Hector Thallon (#2393) (1877-1950)
Susan (floozy)
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Last know residence for Henry and Catherine
Residence: Childers St, South Australia
and Burial at
North Road Cemetery, North Adelaide.
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The names of their children aren't as I would have expected if you assume the Scottish naming tradition. 1st boy after Henry's father (Henry), 2nd girl after Henry's mother (Agnes) but given they were living in Austrailia those traditions may well have been dispensed with or had maybe gone out of fashion.
Thanks for your help
Danny
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I think alot of family traditions did change, even though a lot of my family did stik to some traditions.
this is what I have on Henry Thallon
THALLON Henry 78 years Married Relative not recorded
Died 16 Sep 1909
Residence North Adelaide Death Place North Adelaide Ade S 343/367
Our Henry Thallon???
There is a Henry Thallon appearing on the 1856 Electoral Rolls for Victoria
Electoral Year 1856
State Victoria District Talbot
Subdistrict Carisbrook
Henry Thallon MAryborough Draper on Salary of 100 pound from looks like Mckernie and Co Maryborough
Then this was found and I began to assume he did know the Garrett family as John Garret is my gg grandfathers brother.
REAL PROPERTY ACT
Notice is hereby given that Henry Thallon and John Garrett of Richmond, Storekeepers, have applied to have brought under the provisions of the Real Property Act the land described at the foot hereof; and that the Commissioner of Titles has appointed that on the expiration of fourteen clear days from the date of this advertisement in the Government Gazette the Registrar General unless he shall in the interval receive and equeat to do so, proceed to bring such land under the provisions of the Act.
Dated Ninth day of March 1864.
THE LAND REFERRED TO
Part of portion number twenty-three, Parish of Jika-Jika, County of Bourke: Details of measurements..........Also part of the same portion lying at the north west corner having frontage to the Punt road of a hundred feet by a depth of three hundred and sixty three inches.
Horace Sampson
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Hi Danny
A birth certificate of any of the children born in Victoria to Henry and Catherine will show the age and place of birth of both parents as already outlined in reply#6 by tropicalj.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cheers
Cando
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Havebput thisbon another thread but yesterday i was browsing through the Vic BMD and to my suprise but yet to be confirmed
Their is a possible brother to Robert Garrett and John.
I found a Richard Garrett parents William Garrett and Mary Quinn
This has opened up another can of worms. Cheers