RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: lesleyhannah on Tuesday 19 May 09 07:56 BST (UK)
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For many years I have been searching for the family of my 3xg-grandfather John Jarman, who came to a sticky end in Leicester gaol in 1881. I know his father's name was Job Jarman from Clipston Northants, who at some time moved to Leicester. But there the trail stops even though you'd think the name Job Jarman is pretty unusual.
Yesterday I was walking through the Richmond and East Sheen cemetery, wondering why none of my ancestors ever left gravestones full of the family details of some of those in the graveyard when the memorial below (which was bigger than anything else around) caught my eye. Another Job Jarman - even though it's in the other end of the country!!
Now is this pure coincidence (did all Mrs Jarmans, looking at their newborn sons think Job would be a cute name?) or could I have found a part of my family that's respectable and affluent? And am I being silly getting so excited about what is probably nothing to do with my tree?
Lesley
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Morning Lesleyhannah
As an indicator these are the Job Jarman's that married around that time:
Marriages Sep 1850
JARMAN Job Martins St 1 156
Marriages Dec 1859
Jarman Job Mt. Harbro' 7a 85
Marriages Dec 1864
Jarman Job St.Geo.Han.Sq 1a 537
Marriages Jun 1873
Jarman Job Northampton 3b 156
So there were a few, could the last one be yours?
Reagrds
David
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These are the deaths, is the one in red likely to be your 'Job':
Deaths Mar 1854
Jarman Job Mt. Harbro' 7a 11
Deaths Mar 1856
Jarman Job St James 1a 2_4
Deaths Dec 1861
Jarman Job Leicester 7a 94
Deaths Mar 1878
JARMAN Job 45 Mt.Harbro 7a 16a
Deaths Jun 1893
Jarman Job 54 Thanet 2a 534
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Lesley
You probably have this:
John Jarman's Christening on the 29th June 1837 at Clipston in Northampton.
from IGI Batch number I006311
Is there a particular direction you want us to go or any census's information you are lacking?
Regards
David :)
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Hi Dave
The 1861 death in Leicester gaol is mine. I do have the 1873 marriage, but can't find any link with my family. However, I've always assumed the Jobs in Northants, Leicester and Market Harbro' are all connected, although I haven't been able to make this link myself.
The two references you give to southern Jarmans may be connected to the memorial stone. I may try to find this family in the censuses and see if it leads back to Northants. After all these years any straw is worth clutching!
It just came as a real shock seeing the name when I was least expecting it!
Thank you for your help.
Lesley
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Lesley
I think it would be worth typing out all the information you have and posting it; someone will probably be able to find a thread to pull or a lead to follow. No harm in trying - unless you have done so previously ;D
David
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Thanks again, Dave
I think I've exhausted all the Northants links. Some years ago I did pay a researcher in the area, but haven't been able to find the family that Job sprang from.
There are several 'possibles' but no way of proving them. I have bought a number of BMDs that may or may not be connected - and I really need am 1831 census to take it one step back (I suppose lots of us are in this situation!) I'd more or less given up with this line, but now I think I'll have a look at where these 'posh' Jarmans originated.
Probably won't lead anywhere, but sometimes you knock down a brick wall when you least expect it!
Lesley
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Hi Lesley :)
Did you notice the death date of the Job Jarman who is buried in Richmond & Sheen Cemetery?
Are you and he connected to the family of Job Jarman, elastic weaver in Leicester, whose son Job was a 22 year old architect in 1901?
I also found this about Wrenne Jarman, a poet who was the daughter of a Richmond builder. Wrenne died in the 50s aged 42, so she could easily have been the daughter of an architect/builder? who was 22 in 1901.
http://freepages.pavilion.net/tartarus/wrenne.html
Sorry if what I've posted is teach your grandmother to suck eggs stuff and/or completely daft, I'm in a bit of a rush but I can't resist cemetery coincidences (I had a particularly fortuitous one of my own last year!) and had to spend a few minutes Googling after I read your post.
Marion
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Hi Marion - I did write quite a detailed reply to you earlier, but when I tried to attach a photo of the gravestone the whole thing disappeared! I think the picture was too big, but it's very hit and miss with me, attaching images on this site - sometimes I get it right, but mostly I don't.
So I'll try to recap what I said, and will save it before trying again to attach the photo. I found your message very interesting - tho the article on Wrenne was a bit weird, don't you think? I'll read it again later.
Your message rang a few bells - some years ago I did some research on Job Jarman, elastic weaver - having found the name in the indexes. There is a distant relationship, but I didn't follow it up. Job was the son of Isaac born c1818. Isaac was the brother of my notorious g-g-g-grandfather John Jarman. Your message prompted me to look up my old records to see if there was a link with the Richmond family.
Job the elastic maker had a son, Job the architect - and, as you guessed, he was the JOb named on the gravestone, and the father of Wrenne.
So, the goosebumps I got when I stumbled on the grave were justified - they really are related to me (albeit very distantly). Seems like the family split two ways - one branch created architects, poets and painters; the other attempted murderers and suicides. Guess I was on the more interesting, if less reputable side!
But I am grateful to you. You did prompt me to look at that branch again - and find the gravestone at the 'wrong' end of the country really was part of my family.
Now I know I have 'southern' connections I'm going to look into the death Dave found:
Mar 1856
Jarman Job St James 1a 2_4
If I can find the correct reference I'd be really excited if I found this JOb was one of mine too! So thanks to Dave for that.
Now I'm going to copy this before attempting to put the photo on the site./
Regards
Lesley
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Hi Lesley,
That's incredible, I'm so glad if what I contributed helped to make the link. I suppose it's quite likely you have some living Jarman cousins locally, since the last burial was so recent.
I must confess I hadn't read the entire article about Wrenne when i posted the link - just the first paragraph that caught my eye when I found that she was the daughter of a builder called Job.
You say your side of the family is more interesting if less reputable but I think Wrenne sounds quite a fascinating cousin... and perhaps not entirely reputable if her friendship with Aleister Crowley's anything to go by! It's a pity the author of that article didn't post a picture of her since she was obviously very striking. I wouldn't mind finding a few femme fatale poets in my own family and that story about Dylan Thomas is hilarious. Lovely that there's an ongoing mystery with that grave.
Marion
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I think I should have said "interesting" in quotes!!
I think the other Jarman grave mentioned in the article - a Francis Jarman - may be her brother Frank Richmond Jarman, but I'd need to do a bit more digging on that one. I hadn't noticed that grave in my wandering.
I wonder what made Isaac's son Job turn out so very differently from my branch? He had a very unfortunate start -his father seems to have ditched his mother and the boy and set up home elsewhere. He comes from a line of ag labs and 'ordinary people'. Yet his branch has produced poets, artists and architects. And great beauties. And mine didn't!!
Once again, thank you.
Lesley
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Job Jarman
I believe the Jarmans at Richmond may be the Leicester Jarmans:-
1891 Census: Leicestershire
Job Jarman 36
Sarah Jarman 37
Job Jarman 12 (born 1879)
Ethel Jarman 9
AMB Jarman 5
Seymour Jarman 3
Note that young Job Jarman had a brother named Seymour.
The Job Jarman in Richmond had a son named Archibald Seymour.
I have covered several of them here:-
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?GSfn=&GSln=jarman&page=gsr&GSmid=47019579
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Hi Kelada
Thanks for your reply. Yes, that is definitely the same family. I did some research on them a few years ago, but only for a couple of generations - I hadn't realised what an interesting branch they were. The Job you found was the only child of Isaac's first marriage to Elizabeth Ward. Isaac then moved in with another woman and her children, but they don't seem to have had any children from that marriage.
Oddly enough I was just thinking about the family when I watched the recent episode of Who do you think you are? I seem to remember Elizabeth had several stillbirths or babies dying in infancy (but I need to check this again against the National Burial Index). I wondered if this was the congenital syphilis mentioned in the programme. I decided to look for a death certificate - so spookily again, you just reminded me!
This has been quite an interesting experience - I came across the gravestone quite unexpectedly and didn't think for a minute it could be my family, though I did photograph it. Then Marion sent the information that made me think again, and now you've reminded me about those dead babies, so I think I'll definitely have to go back and look again at them. I'll also be glad to look at your website, which sounds very interesting.
Lesley
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One further point
At one time, Wrenne Jarman shared her home with, and travelled with, an Elizabeth Jarman, about five years her junior. I do not know if this was a sister or a member of the Leicester Jarmans.
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Hi again Kelada
Do you have a dob or any other info about Elizabeth? It would be very interesting if I found there was evidence of contact between the two branches.
Lesley
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Dear Lesley
The only useful information I have about Elizabeth is that her name was apparently Elizabeth S. Jarman. There was a Leicester Elizabeth M. Jarman, born the same year - 1911. It wiould be interesting to find out about Francis and Joan, who lived at Queen's Road Richmond. You will have seen Joan's memorial to the left of Job's. There was a well-known author named Francis Jarman. I hope to visit the Richmond history centre in the near future - perhaps some information will turn up there.
Kelvin.
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Hi again - realised too late you'd already said Elizabeth was 5 years younger than Wrenne - ie born c1900. I can't find her on my tree, and wonder if she was the widow of one of the Jarman men. So any extra info you have would be gratefully received.
Thanks again Kelada
Lesley