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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: HeatherL on Monday 18 May 09 10:08 BST (UK)
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Does any one have any idea what the rough life expectancy of a coalminer was around the 1800s? I have a coalminer ancestor who died when he was 82, which seems really old considering the time period (ESPECIALLY considering his occupation)...
Cheers
Heather
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Until the introduction of the national registration of deaths in 1837, I don't think that there would be any way to obtain these statistics, as before this only burials were recorded in parish registers. Also the first Act of Parliament having for its object the protection and welfare of workers in the British mining industry was not passed until 1842.
Stan
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Hi Heather.
Not that this is much help but my G G Grandfather was a coal miner all his working life. He was born in 1831 and died in 1897. He died of Pithisis a common cause of death for coal miners.
Johngirl
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I come from a long line of coal miners:
1. died 1824 - aged 25 (I believe a mining accident but nothing to substantiate)
2. His son - died 1879 aged 59 - non-mining accident
3. His son - died 1904 aged 61 - crushed by a wagon at pit bottom
My grandfather died aged 75 of heart attack having retired 5 years previously. My father died aged 80 of heart attack having retired in his early 60s.
It would depend on the type of coal mine - open cast or deep mine and the occupations and, in most cases, just luck :-\
My father was working at the coal face in the late 1940s when a large boulder fell on his workmate next to him. All the men on the shift struggled to rescue the man but he died.
My uncle had chronic 'coal miner's lung' /'dust'(silicosis) and died in his late 60s. another uncle died at the age of 95.
As Stan says, it's very difficult to get information from before 1837. The coal mining history site might have something:
http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/
Regards
Gadget
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I think that Gadget has hit the nail on the head with her three examples - a miner may be lucky or unlucky. An accident could claim the life of a child (yes a child miner) or a seventy year old - accidents aren't choosy and there were lots of accidents in those mines.
However accidents apart, many miners would over the years would develop respiratory disease such as pneumonicosis or silicosis. my grandfather died of silicosis at the age of 75 after many years of severe disability.
Now the life expectancy of any man in the 1800s would surely not have been 75. but it must be reasoned that most sufferers of respiratory disease would have died much earlier or as my grandfather was - be unable to do any physical exercise (even walking - he was bedridden for many years).
In short I don't think that there is an acceptable answer to that particular question.
Denn
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Pre-1850 there was no systematic recording of mining deaths. http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/
Apparently, according to an Assize Judge in 1815, it was not customary to trouble about a coroner's inquest if the corpse was "only that of a collier."
Stan
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I think there are at least two different questions here - deaths from coal mining, which would include accidents and the various lung conditions and the average age of death of those employed in coal mining, which would be from all causes.
Although mining was a perilous and hard occupation, life for many other occupational groups was also high. Life for ordinary workers was hard. Fishing, for example, also had a high death rate.
Any chance of you finding average age at death for 'workers' in the 19th century, stan? I've got some info in a book but it's in Scotland.
Gadget
Added - by region might be able to differentiate to some extent, the mining areas and the others
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Lol. I hadn't really thought that this would be such a complex issue. I figured that there would be a number out there somewhere... :)
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See Mortality by Edward Higgs
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06cp/
Stan
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My mothers side were coal miners for generations,going back to early 1700s and i would say based on my own research on my various family branches,that they had poor life expectancies compared to other lines in different generational occupations,i.e my fathers side who were mainly in the ag industry....infact im just looking now and my grandad lived the longest from the mining line,aged 66.
my g grandad;60
gg; ;39
ggg; ;41
gggg; ;49
ggggg; ;50
seems the ones i have death certs for all died of lung related illnesses,caused i would expect by coal dust.
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with regards to the lack of money people had little choice but to carry on working unless they had an accident and couldn't work anymore so aged 82 coal miner would not be uncommon, he may well have worked up top rather than underground in later years it would realy depend on how fit he was.
i have a book at home about coal miners and will have a look to see if there is anything about life expectancy
but life expectancy in general was i think late 60's early 70's so 82 he was doing well.
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See Mortality by Edward Higgs
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06cp/
Stan
Good stuff Stan. Of interest to this thread is the idea of the occupational death rate (deaths per 1000 head of population per year in any given industry). This must surely be more indicative of wether or not one occupation is more or less hazardous than another.
I notice that in one paragraph, Higgs groups coal mining and inn keeping together as examples of the more hazardous occupations :o
Denn
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as has been said in all industries there must have been high death rates look at the chemical, navy (railway and canal building) seafairing which fishing has all ready been said.even in recent years in the glass industry very few in the melting departments tend to live into their 60s bearing in mind arsenic is used in the batch and other nice chemicals ive have no hard figures from books or other sources just out all the funerals we went to from lads we work with from our glasworks they biggest % was from the back of the tank.
neil
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The total casualty figures for British Shipping reached a peak in 1881 when almost 4,000 masters and men died. Figures quoted in 1884 showed the loss of life in mining in the worst year was not more than one in 315 of those employed, whereas in British shipping it was one in 60.
Stan
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Hi
Life expectancy for the whole UK population was about 41 in 1840. I guess that this is largely a consequence of the high rate of child deaths but poor occupational safety would have made a contribution. Apart from dips in the periods 1914-18 and 1939-45 life expectancy seems to have increased fairly steadily to around 80 for children born today. Have a look at the new numbers search engine, WolframAlpha
http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+UK
All the best
Gobbo
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I have no doubt that around the 1880s the maritime industry was a far riskier occupation than coal mining. However Stan the figures in your last post are somewhat misleading.
What we must realise is that prior to about 1890, coal mining was little more than a cottage industry. If we look at the records, I think that the high production mines of Yorkshire (and most of Britain) were only developed between the end of the 19th century and about 1930.
What this means is that the maritime industry of the suggested dates would have employed many more times that of mining. None of the foregoing though would detract from the risky business of our seafarers.
Denn
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The only life expectancy of miners I'm sure of are those of the miners of South Wales. The figures of death and injury rates held by the University of Wales are for South Wales collieries at their peak of production. On average for every mining shift a collier was KILLED every 6 HOURS and a collier was seriously injured every 12 MINUTES! Add this average up over a 20 year period and the casualty rates are mind boggling to say the least. Also during this period a new Baptist Chapel was formed and erected on average every 8 DAYS. They were God fearing folk to say the least. These death rates do not include the retired colliers who died of pneumoconiosis. As to the cmhrc their figures for Welsh collieries are wholly inaccurate which is understandable due to the constant changing of county boundaries and the inaccurate records maintained by the collieries but enough records and anecdotes were retrieved by the University of Wales to correlate their data.
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See Mortality by Edward Higgs
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06cp/
Stan
Good stuff Stan. Of interest to this thread is the idea of the occupational death rate (deaths per 1000 head of population per year in any given industry). This must surely be more indicative of wether or not one occupation is more or less hazardous than another.
Denn
The only life expectancy of miners I'm sure of are those of the miners of South Wales. The figures of death and injury rates held by the University of Wales are for South Wales collieries at their peak of production. On average for every mining shift a collier was KILLED every 6 HOURS and a collier was seriously injured every 12 MINUTES! Add this average up over a 20 year period and the casualty rates are mind boggling to say the least. Also during this period a new Baptist Chapel was formed and erected on average every 8 DAYS. They were God fearing folk to say the least. These death rates do not include the retired colliers who died of pneumoconiosis. As to the cmhrc their figures for Welsh collieries are wholly inaccurate which is understandable due to the constant changing of county boundaries and the inaccurate records maintained by the collieries but enough records and anecdotes were retrieved by the University of Wales to correlate their data.
Yes, after my above posting the penny dropped that these occupational death rates weren't as accurate as I thought - Even though no longer working in the industry many were dying as a result of thier previous occupation.
I suppose all in all there is no perfect way of indicating some things.
Denn
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Wow...
I'm assuming that the kind of work been done would have an impact of the life expectancy of the miners as well. Considering this ancestor of mine lived to 82, statistically that means that he was probably doing a slightly safer job than the average miner. I don't really know much about it, beyond those pictures they have of miners with pickaxes underground. What other jobs were involved in mining then? I know a little bit about the process that they use now, but not so much about the 1800s...
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I don't really know much about it, beyond those pictures they have of miners with pickaxes underground. What other jobs were involved in mining then? I know a little bit about the process that they use now, but not so much about the 1800s...
Oh boy, to describe the ins and outs of coal mining from the early days to the advent of mechanical mining would take some doing. However over the years I have had several requests for information on various aspects of coal mining. So if wished I could at sometime in the future attempt to put something together, it would be by no means be comprehensive but at least give some insight into methods and work practices. Plus, I am sure that there is enough mining knowledge on her that someone would be able to either correct or add to whatever I have to say.
Denn
Denn
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That would be great Denn!! Only if it's not too much trouble...
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Hi
Just because a miner ancestor lived to be 80 does not mean that he was not a proper miner. Some people do survive enormous risks because they are lucky (i.e. about half of Bomber Command) or have an appropriate set of genes (centenarians, who smoke). Looking from the viewpoint of a descendant it does at first seem odd to have old miners in your tree but you have to remember that only live miners could make babies. This means that, on average, miners who are ancestors will be quite a bit older than miners, who died before they could start a family.
All the best
Gobbo
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Another point I would also add is, don't forget that colliers quite often changed their working positions within collieries. Due to physical injury, stress or even falling out of favour a miner might be working up top one month or below ground the next. They might go from being a 'carpenter' making and fitting the props to wagon repairer above ground due to illness but then having a reduced income being up top with children to feed they might go back below ground again.
When it comes to job titles in collieries the censuses are a great resource in the latter 1800's as the title of coal miner and collier were replaced with exact positions being held. The workers in a colliery tended to be paid a flat wage except for the 'hewers' and it is these men who hold that position to look out for. Hewers instead of being on a flat wage were paid on a bonus system and they were paid by the amount of coal they cut. This is where the fatalities occurred on a regular basis and was the most dangerous job in a colliery. There were limited places at the coal face due to sheer physical limitations so there were men always waiting to take their place if they didn't cut enough coal. Besides, if they didn't cut the coal they lost their income. This led hewers to cut corners, they had to if they were to meet the demands put upon them. So carpenters would be sent back before all the props were in place so they could return to cutting coal and so on with little short cuts like this that became a deadly game of chance or dare.
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What kind of mine was the one in clackmannan? I got the impression from my dad that it was an underground one.
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Here's a little bit on the Clackmannanshire mines for you:
http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/159.html
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget, there is some interesting info on there :)
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Morning i've had a look at my book it gives accounts of accidents but doesnt actually tell the life expectancy
it does mention that fires were more likely to occur in collierys than metal / ferrous mines