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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Wiggy on Monday 18 May 09 06:32 BST (UK)
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Born 1816 Devon, UK - died 1898 Melbourne Victoria. Migrated about 1856/7 but , though we can find his family, we can't find Roger. Does anyone have any information about his migration please - date, ship, to - from. Very experienced people have been looking but you never know - someone out there may have the answer. ;)
(Wife Louisa, children Bessie, Kate, Blanche, Clifton - migrated on 'James Baines' in 1857 with brother James Frederick Hynes, and his family.)
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Hi
Not sure if this has anything to do with your Roger as I see that his dad's name was Jonathan ..per IGI submitted entry.
from National Archives;
Information relating to document ref. no. 1078/IRW/P/600
Roger Percy of Lamerton, Devon. [Devon Record Office, Estate Duty Office Wills] Date: 1838.
I am still looking for a Passenger list for him
deb :)
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Hi Deb,
It is possible - we have Roger with a father John so . . .. But both John(athon) and Roger seem to be pretty prevalent in Lamerton and Devon so I can't be sure.
Good luck, and thanks for looking.
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Could he have gone before his family?
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Could have but if so, not long before - 'cos there was a child born in England in 1955. We've looked in the lists before the family arrived and can't see anyone - unless he came under another name - and why would he? I did find a 'John' coming a year earlier but can't tie him in. Also looked in ships coming not too long after, in case he followed them closely - can't see anyone there either. Have looked under all permutations of Percy too! It is a big mystery!
Any more suggestions gratefully received and thanks for looking!
WiggyHobbes
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Hi I found a William and Anne Percy from Lamerton , Devon along with their family, including a Roger aged 26 yrs, they emigrated on the ''Thomas Arbuthnott'' 9th June 1855 landed at Port Adelaide
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This ties in with them in the 1851Census. On the Ships List, it lists single men and women separately apart from their parents
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I can only see 2 Roger Percys in Devon in 1841 - one born 1816 with a Mary age 30 and children Jane, Mary, James and Ann living in St Giles on the Heath (in Cornwall but seems to have been counted as Devon for the census); the other born c1829 appears with a William and Ann and seems to be the one Lornadoone found on the Thomas Arbuthnott.
Where did you get your Roger's birth year from? And when and where did he marry Louisa? Where were children born?
Jan ;)
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Thanks for all the looking. I don't think we've nailed him yet though! ;) :P I think the Roger you found on the 'Thomas Arbuthnot' is too young for our Roger. :'(
I have Roger's birth date from two distant relatives who have been doing family history for many years. He married a Margaret (Male) in 1836 and had two children with her - William and Elizabeth. She died in 1846 and Roger married Louisa Pope, nee Hine (Hyne), in 1850, (UK marriage indexes) in Devon.
There were several children of this marriage - Bessie, Kate, Blanche (our Great Grand mother), Clifton and Frederick, - all born in Devon - and Clifford, Clement, Charles, Cyrus, and Bella born in Victoria.
Roger died in 1898 and is buried in Melbourne General Cemetery, with two sons.
Roger's sister Harriet, married Francis Male and immigrated (before Roger's family) to South Australia and I think his son by his first marriage, William, went there too - but I have forgotten the details of that.
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Forgot: We have them in the 1851 census in UK, and Roger in the 1841 census. Also from death certificates - Roger's, in 1898, says he had been in the colony for 41 years suggesting he arrived in about 1857.
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Hi
Thanks for posting the extra info. Could you post the full details you have for 1841 and 1851? And any other more specific information- if we have more detail especially any place-names in Devon someone may have more luck finding him.
Jan ;)
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Discrepancies in his birth year....
1841 HO107/232/book3/..Lammerton
William Percy age 40 farmer
Ann wife age 30
Roger son age 12..All born in county.
1851 census Lammerton.....HO 107/1875/113/page 2.
Roger head age 25 quarry agent
Louisa wife age 25 born Cornwall
William son age 15 born Cornwall
Elizabeth dau age 14 ""
Bessy dau age 2 born Devon
Kate dau age 11 mths ""....
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This is strange..IGI has 4 submitted entries..
Roger Percy born 1829 Lamerton to William and Ann ,died 1906 in Nairne Australia.
Roger Percy born Lamerton 1816,father Jonathan Percy...
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Hi Hepburn
Thanks for posting the 1851 - it is very puzzling.
The Roger Percy you have posted son of William and Ann in 1841 is the one I found. According to WiggyHobbes info Roger should be with first wife Elizabeth and son William and and possibly daughter Elizabeth in 1841 but going on his age in 51 he would be only 15, 10 when William junior was born ???
Just noticed William junior was born in Cornwall. Hmmm
Jan ;)
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This must be the Roger WiggyHobbes has in 1841
Lantiylos Cornwall
Rodger Pearcy 25 Ag Lab N
Elizabeth do 27 Y
William do 5 Y
Elizabeth do 3 Y
HO107/140/8/24 Pg13
Jan ;)
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:-* :-* Great work folks.
Yes that is the entry I have for the 1841 census - Percy spelt Pearcy on the lists.
And now that I am looking hard again I notice that the Roger who married Louisa is indeed listed as being 25 ( ;D the only time anyone's age has stood still for 10 years! :P) However, do you think the age could have been transcribed wrongly in the 1851 entry because his death certificate shows he died in 1898 ages 82 (born 1816)!
Death cert also indicates that his first marriage was to a 'Margaret' Male and that his two first children, William and Elizabeth as listed, were born in 1834 and 1837ish. It really is a mystery which needs sorting out. Maybe the 1841 census entry I have saved is not the one I want - odd though.
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More Info - I think William was born in Cornwall and Elizabeth was registered at Camelford (in Cornwall?) - we have it that Roger was working at Lanteglos as a quarry man. When he married Louisa he was back in Devon at Stokenham, (Quarry Cottage), and there is evidence of them all living there in 1851. Louisa's first children with Roger were registered in Kingsbridge, Devon. William was working as a Tailor in 1851 according to entry.
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Hi
It remains puzzling. The presence of William and Elizabeth as son and daughter in 1851 lends weight to the 1841 Pearcy entry as being correct but there is the age and occupation discrepancy. People did change occupation- my lot did it all the time - but I would feel slightly wary of Quarry man to Tailor, a skilled occupation, and would want to investigate further. I think you need to go back to what you know to be absolute fact, which seems to be the marriage of Roger to Louisa, and double check everything. I take it you have their marriage certificate - what is all the info on it including witnesses?
The age in 51 could be a mistake and again needs backing up from other sources.
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan,
No Roger did not change occupations - that was William who was a tailor - listed in 1851 census when I looked up William I seem to remember.
By his death cert. Roger was listed as engine driver! Family history is that he was working on the construction of the Yan Yean Dam/Reservoir for Melbourne - and that was largely a quarrying job - long stone/rock wall.
Roger's marriage cert for Louisa is dated 25 Mar 1850 and he is listed as widower and she as widow. His father is John - labourer . Hers is William Hine (Hyne) - blacksmith Roger's rank/profession is listed as Labourer. Age for both is just listed as full age.
Witnesses to the marriage are hard to read - John -eitey ? maybe, and Henry Kelland or Holland - don't know. Parish Church of England in Stokenham.
Does this help? ??? ;) Thanks again!
Wiggy
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Sorry, now see you said William ;D :-[
So only the age problem which is probably a mistake as he would otherwise be far too young to have William and Elizabeth as children. Another check to do would be to make sure there is not a Roger Percy/Pearcy born Devon c1816 elsewhere in 51 or still in England in 1861.
I think you most probably have the right Roger - although sadly no further forward with your original quest to find him on a ship to Australia!
Jan ;)
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I have tried the 1861 census and can't find a Roger to fit the bill - also we know 'ours' was in Australia by then. but I gather you mean to rule out someone else - . . I'm getting a bit lost on this one! Senior moment maybe!!
Really appreciate your help! :)
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Do you have access to lists leaving England? I see you are in West Sussex. I can only find lists arriving in Victoria or arriving in England on our Public Records indexes.
Maybe it is possible to find him leaving 'Old Blighty'. He is one of my ancestors who didn't go straight to the gold fields! Well, I don't think so anyway.
Wiggy
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Yes I just meant re-checking censuses to double check you do have the right Roger in 41 - although I think there is little doubt due to the presence of the William and Elizabeth.
Sorry I have no access to shipping lists leaving England for the relevant time frame. Someone else might happen along who does.
Jan ;)
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Thanks Jan - I'll keep looking! ;)
Many thanks for help you are giving.
Wiggy
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Replying to your suggestions in PM Robyn - thanks for that - I've been having a look.
I found the Percy in 1854 on the NSW marine indexes - don't think it can be correct although we don't have a date for the child born in 1855 - to be in Australia and moving from Melbourne to Sydney in July - well it is pushing it a bit I reckon. ::)
I also found the Richard Percy in 1857 Victorian incoming index some time ago, and I'm inclined to think this is more likely - I had this one saved to my thinking about it box! Failing other information I'm going to keep it there as 'most likely sighting'! :-\
Wiggy
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So, How does one verify that the Richard M G Persey on the 'Pomona' in May 1857 age 46, was, in reality, Roger Percy aged 41 and father of the family (also spelt Persey) who came out two months earlier?? Have had other occasions where the ages are wrong and spelling is up the creek - but . . . .? :-\ Richard does seem to have been travelling alone - is that hopeful? ::) ;D
I'll willingly run off to the PROV but previous experience tells me that will not add much to the sum of knowledge.
(Beautiful day here - but we need RAIN RAIN and MORE RAIN.) :D
Cheers,
Wiggy
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Does seem hopeful but the 'M G' bothers me - do you have any evidence of Roger having middle names?
Jan ;)
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None at all at all!! Clutching at straws that's me.
Robyn (regross) has found evidence of him being here in 1855 when James F Hyne his brother-in-law was looking for him via the Argus in Melbourne. Reckon the two of them came for a recce? ::) Can't find Roger coming either time - but James, both. I think he stowed away! - just kidding. it is very mysterious. Still looking - everywhere!
Wiggy
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Just wondering - absolutely no idea if it is a possibility - but could Roger have worked his passage as a member of the crew?
Jan ;)
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It's a thought isn't it? ??? He was an Ag. labourer/ quarryman in Devon - don't suppose that matters. Is there a special way to attack Crew members?
Will look into it tomorrow
Wiggy
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Thanks to huge help from Robyn, progress may be occurring. She suggests that Roger Percy came out in Dec 1854 called 'Perry' on lists and stayed while his brother-in-law went back to bring the families of Hyne and Percy (Persey on lists)
Sounds good to me! Can't think why I didn't think of it!
Any advance on Roger's activities after that would be very welcome. It is believed he worked on Yan Yean Dam construction, and the family definitely lived in West Melbourne at the later stages of his life.
Wiggy :)
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Fantastic :D
Glad you seem to have found him at last
Jan ;)
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Be good when we can verify it!! Am very hopeful though. Thanks for your early help on this matter - set us on the trail.
Wiggy :D