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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: eramophla on Saturday 16 May 09 05:10 BST (UK)

Title: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: eramophla on Saturday 16 May 09 05:10 BST (UK)
I am trying to determine if my 3 times great-grandfather deserted the French whaling ship "Mississippi" in Port Lincoln, South Australia in 1839. Does anyone know where I can locate crew lists of French whaling ships from this period?
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: ghostgirl on Tuesday 19 April 22 05:29 BST (UK)
Hi  - Just wondering if you ever found the list you were looking for, or were given directions on how to find it? I am also looking for information on a French whaler around the same time.
Cheers
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Tuesday 19 April 22 08:20 BST (UK)
I found this
https://www.persee.fr/doc/rhmc_0048-8003_1990_num_37_2_1542
page 245/246
A mutiny in 1838 on the french  whaling ship Gange , 18 men deserted in NZ, Baie des iles (Island bay?)
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Tuesday 19 April 22 08:30 BST (UK)
a book mentions the french whaling ship Mississippi ( sailed for 2 years and came back in april may 1837 )
https://books.google.fr/books?id=yKlTs6qDgbUC&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=baleinier+mississippi&source=bl&ots=n8N1njp5Vy&sig=ACfU3U2kZDl8rHUiEwOJQ-z_SnFmcsH0XQ&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjT6Jjhy5_3AhWjx4UKHY0oBVY4ChDoAXoECBsQAw#v=onepage&q=baleinier%20mississippi&f=false
page 180
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Tuesday 19 April 22 08:52 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/7cc13bcab88ed60dc13547ea78e5ed37/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_4c37a2fbb671f192399117dff4c70e26?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F7cc13bcab88ed60dc13547ea78e5ed37%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F73&vx=1172.75&vy=-2262.51&vr=0&vz=6.82107

page 73/78
you have the Mississippi 's decommissionning in Le Havre may the 15th 1837, whaling ship (pêche de la baleine),

page 8/78 you have it going to la Guadeloupe
page 13 comming back from La Guadelouppage 33


Here you may find your ancestor
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/7cc13bcab88ed60dc13547ea78e5ed37/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_4c37a2fbb671f192399117dff4c70e26?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F7cc13bcab88ed60dc13547ea78e5ed37%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F73&vx=1172.75&vy=-2262.51&vr=0&vz=6.82107

What was his name?
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: ghostgirl on Tuesday 19 April 22 09:20 BST (UK)
Joger, could I please send you a message about another similar matter?
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Tuesday 19 April 22 09:34 BST (UK)
Please do
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: garstonite on Wednesday 20 April 22 09:24 BST (UK)
For the record - in case you are unaware - I live in Liverpool - the busiest seaport in the world at that time - mid 1800's
MANY MANY seamen were a lot of trouble - so Captains chose to BEACH UNRULY SAILORS - When they were within reach of a beach by the rowboat /Lifeboat - they were set ashore on the beach and left to fend for themselves - Captains didn't like the idea of telling the ship owners they couldn't handle certain sailors - so they reported them as "Deserted "

and were usually given the nickname "Beach "  there are a couple in Liverpool still called Beach
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: ghostgirl on Wednesday 20 April 22 12:55 BST (UK)
That's really interesting Garstonite!

My own seafaring ancestors were based in Liverpool - I will have to check the records I have and see if anyone 'deserted'!
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Friday 22 April 22 07:37 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/5b5edfa9347f481ea2b1bed3c635e7fa/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_4050069dd38a3404b85154ebbe3e08d0?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F5b5edfa9347f481ea2b1bed3c635e7fa%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F1324&vx=3089.57&vy=-2295.35&vr=-1.5708&vz=3.82588
page 1324 and further

Le Mississippi left Le Havre 8 august 1835 and came back 15 may 1837
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Friday 22 April 22 10:13 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/80949e131ed1ad3e237d3b3122b8cdbd/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_190ede03eb1d6a9430aff31470eadd32?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F80949e131ed1ad3e237d3b3122b8cdbd%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F111&vx=1624.38&vy=-1407.4&vr=0&vz=7.14379
page 111/197
Le Mississippi sailed again from Le Havre 8 december 1838 (Captain Rossiter) and came back 25 july 1840
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Friday 22 April 22 10:52 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/2aa574374be5710333c62e8a2b262188/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_d959140666b2d1207c1a20ea7d34bf99?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F2aa574374be5710333c62e8a2b262188%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F659

page 659 to 689

Crew's role for the trip 1838/1840

I see no one deserting in Port Lincoln. Some did in Hobart Town
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Friday 22 April 22 12:39 BST (UK)
Finally I found 2 sailors who deserted in Coffin Bay ( it is said New Zeland, but I think it is Australia not far from Port Lincoln) , one is called Jacques Augustin VEIRON  (who went back to France and married at least twice) and the other one Joseph Augustin MANET.
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: eramophla on Saturday 23 April 22 03:03 BST (UK)
Thanks all. Someone did some research back in 2018 and discovered the following:

"Official Records in France have now confirmed that Mathurin initially left Le Havre as a 16 year-old mossy, then novice on the 'Carolina' and the 'Asia' between 1834 and 1836, and returned from some long journeys.

However, French Maritime Disarmament Records written by a ship's Master (likely to be Pierre Darmandariz - 'Asia' - Depart Le Havre 8 August 1835 Return 16 April 1837) prove that 'Charles' wisely ended one such dangerous journey in New Zealand on 14 March, 1836, whilst working aboard the 'Asia' at an extremely volatile place for many reasons - 'The Bay of Islands.' The Disarmament notes written by Master of this ship show:- Quote: "Charles Leon Laine deserted on March 14, 1836 in the Bay, having the permission to go for a walk." In addition he wrote: Quote: "MARTIN Felix Edouard aboard with LAINE Charles Leon, followed him, profiting from the occasion." Charles Leon LAINE was definitively "crossed off" French Maritime records on 10 August, 1847. Mathurin was only 18.1 years of age at the time of leaving this ship. Interestingly, his step-uncle, Martin Casper, was Master of a ship from Le Havre with a destination of Bay of Islands - New Zealand from 1839-1840. He also mastered the same ship from Le Havre to South Australia and Oahu from 1844-1847."
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Saturday 23 April 22 08:43 BST (UK)
Well, sailors often deserted (and could be taken back on board by force) or left the ship and closed their account with captain assent . Then they could get hired on another ship.
Your Mathurin Charles could have embarked on the Mississippi,but the crew's role does not have his name ( see here
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/5b5edfa9347f481ea2b1bed3c635e7fa/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_4050069dd38a3404b85154ebbe3e08d0?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F5b5edfa9347f481ea2b1bed3c635e7fa%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F1324&vx=3089.57&vy=-2295.35&vr=-1.5708&vz=3.82588)

page 1328 gives the list of all the persons who once were on the ship Le Mississippi during this fishing campaign . There is no mention of your Mathurin Charles LAINE.

Note that there were 2 captains : Rossiter and Piquet.

Mathurin Charles could also have embarked on an english ship.

Added : I've read the story on Familypedia

On geneanet there are 2 trees , maybe one of them is yours.
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Saturday 23 April 22 09:56 BST (UK)
Now here is what I have found : Asia 's crew's roll

https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/df37052a17275f2feb7d4126338cc85f/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_66fabdc1d06e9a5638e7e7f14ee1b0ad?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2Fdf37052a17275f2feb7d4126338cc85f%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F223&vx=986.084&vy=-1150.22&vr=0&vz=6.54856

page 223
The captain was Jean Pierre Lemasson
The ship left Le Havre 10 july 1834 , came back 5 july 1835

page 235 number 31 you have Lainé, on the account page

page 236 you have Lainé on the role , illegitimate son of Berenice Melanie Lainé .
You have a physical description : 1,59 meter hign, oval face , large forehead, brown eyes, short nose, average, mouth , round chin, brown hair and eyebrows;

Strangely enough page 1082 same crew's role.

his signature page 236




Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Saturday 23 April 22 13:57 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/0f62ad3af075b009fe8f02d058a65409/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_b3c03babeec3c37d6466f71dc5af4393?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2F0f62ad3af075b009fe8f02d058a65409%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F1024&vx=1185.81&vy=-2669.09&vr=0&vz=5.56933
page 1024 Casper  1st lieutenant aboard La Pallas
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: joger on Saturday 23 April 22 15:17 BST (UK)
https://www.archivesdepartementales76.net/ark:/50278/df37052a17275f2feb7d4126338cc85f/dao/0/1/idsearch:RECH_b3c03babeec3c37d6466f71dc5af4393?id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.archivesdepartementales76.net%2Fark%3A%2F50278%2Fdf37052a17275f2feb7d4126338cc85f%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F618
page 618

Found 2 apprentice sailors called Lainé on Le Colbert ,  Mathurin Charles's cousins ?
Title: Re: French whaling ship - crew lists?
Post by: davidqueneherve on Sunday 26 June 22 21:49 BST (UK)
Hello,

http://janeologist.blogspot.com/2018/02/52-ancestors-in-52-weeks-week-6.html

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/619377/laine-mathurin-charles-havre-query-parents-also-caspar-sousa?show=716133#c716133