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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: umalaka on Wednesday 13 May 09 11:24 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I am searching for the death/burial of Eliza Knowlan last known on 1881 census at Dychurch lane Northampton age 54.
I suspect she may have gone to the union workhouse Northampton as her husband James Knowlan died there in Sept 1890 and her son by a previous marriage Joseph Nicholls died there in May 1890. Eliza is not mentioned on either death cert.
Many thanks
John
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John, have you checked the 1891 census to see if Eliza is there, maybe in some unexpected place?
Maybe she got out of the workhouse. I'd think the fact that she's not mentioned on the death cert is not really a basis for thinking she was dead
when James & Joseph died. The only way she'd be on the DC is if she was the infomant.
charlotte
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Hi Charlotte
I haven't been able to trace Eliza on subsequent censuses or any remarriage on Free BMD. My thoughts were that if she was alive at the time of her husband's death she would have been more likely to have been the informant? However, it seems a niece, Frances Mooney, from Derby was the informant of James's death, and 'Edward Bell Master of Union workhouse Northampton' for their son Joseph.
John
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She would not necessarily have been the infomant. As far as I know, the informant is someone who is present at the death or in the case of the workhouse, perhaps the Master of it.
To repeat what I said earlierI wouldn't assume she was dead on this basis.
Do you know if Frances Mooney was a workhouse inmate?
charlotte
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The niece is stated as living at 29 Green lane Derby on the certificate and I remember checking this out on1891 census (Eliza wasn't there).
I understand what you are saying regarding do not assume but as I have been looking for her alive for quite a while now I thought I'd cover all the bases.
John
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Hi All
John welcome to the Northants Boards. :)
I see that Joseph was living at the Union House when he died aged 26.
He died on May 7th 1890 and is buried at Billing Road Cemetery in grave 9433.
Sandy
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James died also in the Union House which you already state,
and was aged 79.
He died on August 28th and is also buried in Billing Road in Grave 9820.
At the moment I can not see Eliza.
Sandy
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Thank you very much Sandy much appreciated.
I wonder if Eliza is buried with James knowlan?
I do know she was previously 'married' to a William Nicholls circa 1850 who died at the Riding Northampton age 49 on 10 Dec 1871 - Just to confuse matters she seemed to have called herself 'Mary' as informant of the death and on the 1871 census.
Would the Billing Rd cemetery have been open in 1871 do you know?
John
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Hi John
Yes Billing Road would have been opened.
I am still looking, will see if I can find anything else.
I have looked for a 2nd marriage, what became of Fanny M
and Ann at the moment to no avail.
Sandy
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I'm glad you're on the case Sandy :)
I have previously found daughter Fanny M's marriage to a John Watson Addington 16 feb 1891 in Npton. Took a bit of finding I recall.
John
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Well John.
I can see them in the Ridings in 1891 with Fanny noted as Frances.
I have already quite a while ago listed all the deaths in Northampton Reg
District upto 1923 and can only see James on it. No Eliza or Ann.
Now please do not take this the wrong way do you think Eliza may have left the
family (with or without Ann) and taken on the Surname of some else. ?
Eliza/Mary certainly does not seem to have died between 1881 to 1891 under
the name Nichol(l)s or Knowlan.
Hopefully someone else may be able to assist further as I am off to bed. :)
Sandy
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Now please do not take this the wrong way do you think Eliza may have left the
family (with or without Ann) and taken on the Surname of some else. ?
Nothing would suprise me Sandy! Eliza is a bit of a puzzle.
Eliza (then Nicholls) would have been my grandfather's grandmother but there is no family remembrance of her. As a bit of background, although I have never found her first 'marriage' I know she and William Nicholls had at least 6 children between 1850 and 1868. (I have all the B+D certs except Fanny M's birth the census says she was born in Banbury whereas the others are the Northampton Riding area). George (my grt grandfather) was the first known to be born.
William died of liver disease in Dec 1871 age 49 and Eliza then marries James Knowlan in May 1872 (quick work! I have visions of William perhaps being a drunkard and James being a widow just down the rd in Dychurch lane!). James Knowlan was a 'china rivetter which is what son George Nicholls turned out to be in the 1890's .
There is definitely something odd going on with Eliza's surnames, on George's birth cert her maiden name is shown as 'Dross' and on subsequent childrens births it's variants of Preece. The thought crossed my mind that she might have had some sort of speech impediment or accent?
So I'm back to trying to find Eliza alive in 1891 but possibly under a different name! Wish me luck :-)
John
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Hi again John.
I am sorry no one else helped you out over night as there are so may here
who like a good puzzle to sort out. :)
Anyway I can see some of your problems.
On the 1861 Eliza aged 30 with 2 children George aged 10 and Eliza aged 1.
On the 1871 as you say she is Mary aged 40 wih Joseph aged 6 and Fanny aged 2.
Can you detail any more details in case we can find other children etc.
If not the "best of british" in the nicest sense, as it sure is complicated.
Sandy
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Thanks again Sandy.
For the record the details I have for the known children are:
To Eliza and James Knowlan (married 27 May 1872 Chapel of St Felix Northampton)
Ann b 13 Apr 1875 at 4 Dychurch Lane Northampton
To Eliza and William Nicholls (married circa 1850 where unknown)
George b 5 Oct 1850 at Riding Northampton -not bapt at St Giles Npton m Harriet Stuchbury 23 mar 1871 d 12 Nov 1912 Npton
Sarah Ann Nicholls b 5 Sep 1853 at Riding Npton bapt 26 Sep 1853 St Giles d 10 Sep 1854 Riding Npton
William Nicholls b 3 Aug1857 at Riding Npton bapt 19 Dec 1857 St Giles d Xmas day 1857 Riding Npton
Eliza Nicholls b3 Apr 1860 at Riding Npton bapt 4 Nov 1860 St Giles d 20 Dec 1862 Riding Npton
Joseph Nicholls b 7 Mar 1865 at St Andrews st Npton d 7 May 1890 Npton
Frances (Fanny) mary Nicholls b Abt 1868 Banbury m John Watson Addington 16 Feb 1891 Npton d 9 Mar 1920
To James Knowlan and Mary (unkn maiden name b Ireland abt 1816 m date unkn d 25 Feb 1854)
Margaret abt 1841 Chipping Norton
Jane abt 1844 bur 14 Feb 1848 St Sepulchre Npton
Martha abt 1853 m ? Bailey poss 1869 Npton
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Hi John
Well here we go again.
The Chapel of St Felix is that now the Roman Catholic Cathedral on Barrack Road.
On the Census it said James was from Canada.
No wonder there was a gap between the children as 3 died so young. :'(
Thank you for taking the time to list the details.
Hopefully it may help progress forward.
Sandy
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Can you share the details of the 1872 marriage certificate?
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Of course
At the Chapel of St Felix Northampton which I think is now the Roman Catholic Cathedral:
27 May 1872
James Knowlan , full age, widower, China Rivitter, Broad St Northampton, Burnard Knowlan deceased, Sailor (or Tailor !)
Eliza Nicholls, of full age, widow, Hawker, The Riding Northampton, Richard Place deceased, Labourer
Married according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholics by certificate by me Christopher Scott Roman Catholic priest
James Knowlan
x the mark of Eliza Nicholls
in the presence of James Barker, Lucy Barker
hope this helps John
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John thanks for the P.M.
Will not do that tomorrow then. :)
EDIT: No need anyway as I have found a typed list
of the gravestones of St Giles from a survey done in 1992.
No Nichols surnames on it.
Sandy
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Hi all
Thought I would update you on my search for the elusive Eliza Knowlan/Nichols/Preece.
Well the reason I couldn't find her grave was that she was buried at sea!
I had noted some time ago that in a register of burials at sea there was an Eliza Knowlan who died 11 Aug 1887 of apoplexy on board the Arizona, but the age stated was only 42 ('my Eliza' was at least 55) and there were no other details d that would confirm it was her. However, thanks to the new on-line National Newspaper Archive, I tracked down an article in the Northampton Mercury dated 29 Oct 1887 entitled 'The Burial of a Northamptonian at Sea' which proves it was her.
She was returning from New York, and on the leg between Queenstown (Ireland) and Liverpool was 'found dead in her berth at 3:15 am' and 'at 5:30 am was put overboard'! The ship was then 13.5 hours into the run to Liverpool a journey that would usually take 15 or 16 hours.
The reason given was that 'she was a steerage passenger and her friends were ill able to bear the expense of the funeral' However her husband says there were £2 16s 8d found in her purse and £21 in her bank book.
I must admit I felt a little sad reading this and wondered whether there may infact have been 'foul play'.
Should there be a death certificate for her? I couldn't see one on free BMD.
Still looking for her marriage - Eliza Preece to William Nichols circa 1850 ! :-)
Happy New Year!
John