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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jimbach on Tuesday 12 May 09 22:13 BST (UK)
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I am at a loss to find out when Mary Ann Cooke left England for Western Australia.She was born in 1881.She is said to have gone to Darwin or Kalgoorlie or Perth.I believe she married more than once.her daughter Gertrude marriedThomas leopold Murley of the Premier Hotel Pinjarra.Her maiden name was Hoffman. Gertrude had 3 sisters ...Clara. Phoebe and Nellie.Nellie had 2 sons , one of whom,Roy, was in RAAF and was killed inWW2 in Italy.Clara also had 2 sons,married with a daughter each. Her husband was chairman of transports and firebrigades.One son was in auditor generals office and the other in health inspection. they all had connections with Stirling St. MIller St. Benporath St.all inVictoria Park,Perth.Where the mother lived and her married name is a mystery.I believe she died circa 1950. Any info or hints would be greatly appreciated. Jimbach.
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Hi Jimbach,
Looks like you are looking at Western Australia. You will find the WA resources a big help
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369921.0.html
For starters I note
MURLEY Thomas L = HOFFMAN Gertrude 1928 Perth 691
I dont see Mary Ann's marriage listed but there is a possible second marriage of Mary A HOFFMAN = Thomas S SEYMOUR Listed
Also possible marriages of the sisters listed
http://www.wamarriage.info/search.htm
Cheers Kris :)
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A link to previous request for the MURLEY family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,375561.msg2490766.html#msg2490766
Cheers
Cando
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Phoebe's birth is listed in WA. Looks like Mary Ann must have married young to be having a child in 1898
1898 HOFFMAN Phoebe parents Thomas and Mary Ann Cooke 3596
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
Kris :)
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Hi Jimbach,
I note by Gertrudes death aged 83 in 1975 means a birth around 1892. Looks like there is a problem with Mary Ann's birth you have listed (1881)
Kris :)
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Hello
I see from the 1891 census that Mary Ann is living with her parents george cooke 29 farmer, Elizabeth 28, and her siblings Robert Cooke 5 and Elizabeth Cooke 3, all born in Eye near Leominster Herefordshire.
and 1901 census Mary Ann Cooke 17 is a house maid for Arthur Hawkins, clergyman at Leyster's vicarage near Leominster Herefordshire.
There is a birth registration - Mary Ann Cooke March qtr 1884 Leominster Herefodshire 6a 536
Also a marriage between Mary Ann Cooke and either Richard Evan Price OR James Stead June qtr 1904 Leominster 6a 1207
If this is your Mary then she was still in England in 1904!
Jean
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Nellie Hoffman, m. Jack M. Godfrey. Records for her son, Richard Roy Godfrey, RAAF, are online at the National Archives. They give the names of her surviving son and her daughter (married).
Clara Hoffman, may have married Rennie L. Millen (on WWI records as aka Renail Leslie Millen, civil servant/ex town clerk) There's a mention of him here which sounds similar to the family stories you have: http://www.carnamah.com.au/t19.html
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Hi
Clara does seem to have died as MILLEN
CLARA MILLEN KC00033374
Aged 80 06/11/1969 VICTORIA PARK
Grave/Memorial Location
Memorial Type
GARDEN OF REMEMBRANCE
KARRAKATTA CEMETERY. CREMATORIUM ROSE GARDENS P 0184
RENNIE is with her.
RENIE LESLIE MILLEN
Aged
75 02/09/1960 EAST VICTORIA PARK
Grave/Memorial Location
Memorial Type
GARDEN OF REMEMBRANCE
KARRAKATTA CEMETERY CREMATORIUM ROSE GARDENS P 0184
Sue
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So...
This looks like PHOEBE marrying as HOFFMAN too.
HOFFMAN, PHOEBE. @ PERTH reg 1384 in 1925 to NELSON, CARL W.
Sue
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Hi
Here are burials in WA for people of the names.
Mary Ann's birth date is way out.
So.. ???
MARY ANN SEYMOUR KB00089145
Aged 88 20/02/1950 VICTORIA PARK
Grave/Memorial Location
KARRAKATTA CEMETERY ANGLICAN GC 0115
K0001544 EXPIRED UNKNOWN
THOMAS SMYRNA SEYMOUR GB00003406
Aged 73 14/09/1951 NEDLANDS
Grave/Memorial Location
GUILDFORD CEMETERY GENERAL B 0074
G0003156 EXPIRED 17/09/2001
The DEATH CERTIFICATE for this Mary Ann Seymour is available for purchase
SEYMOUR MARY A. Female @ PERTH reg 424 in 1950
Sue
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1901 Electoral Roll
HOFFMAN Thomas Albany Rd Victoria Pk Fremantle Hairdresser
also listed
Mary Ann Home Duties
1906 Electoral Roll
HOFFMAN Mary Ann Albany Rd Home Duties
HOFFMAN Thomas Hulbert father William mother unknown bn Manchester England died 1904/1923
Not sure what to think here. Mary Ann should be Seymour and Gertrude is married, so perhaps more than one ???
Now Thomas Smyrna SEYMOUR is in Kalgoorlie in 1925 as is Gertrude Hoffman. If this is second hubby he can be found on same site as Mary Ann Seymour's burial although not buried at same place (died 1951) :-\
He is mentioned here (Victoria)
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DEVON/2004-02/1077340661
Electoral Roll 1926
HOFFMAN Mary Ann 46 Waugh St Fremantle Widow
also
Robert Edwin Frank - Journalist
1936
HOFFMAN Mary Ann 46 Waugh St Fremantle Widow
also listed
Gertie Home Duties
SEYMOUR Mary Ann died 20 Feb 1950 aged 88 years of Victoria Park buried Karrakatta
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00089145
Cheers Kris :)
Ditto - I see Sue has listed these burials
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Hi Kris,
Ditto - I see Sue has listed these burials KRIS
Yes, and noted the age anomoly of Mary Ann SEYMOUR.
Time for rethink, as you say.
Sue
And perhaps to make things clearer [if that is ever possible with this business!]
Here is the marriage with DATE for the MARY A. HOFFMAN
HOFFMAN , MARY A @ PERTH reg 886 in 1926 to SEYMOUR, THOMAS S.
So she could not be a widow under the name HOFFMAN in 1936 per the Roll.
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Hi,
According to the WA Post Office Directories online,
Mrs Mary Ann Hoffman was at 46 Waugh Street , Fremantle right up to 1949.
Sue
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/find/guides/wa_history/post_office_directories/1949
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Could this be her burial record
HOFFMANN Mary Ann
93 years 16 Sep 1963 Nedlands
Karrakatta Cemetery
Crematorium Rose Garden 4E/0040
Cheers
Cando
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Don't think that Clara Hoffmann could be Gertrude's sister or Mary Ann's daughter as she married in 1909
HOFFMAN CLARA
MILLEN RENNIE L
PERTH 311 1909
Cheers Sue
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Yes, looks likely Cando.
Have been trying to place ......
HOFFMAN Mary Ann 46 Waugh St Fremantle Widow
also
Robert Edwin Frank - Journalist from KRIS electoral findings.
Spotted this online tree.
So he was a relative of some kind, not sure without delving further into the tree. Nephew perhaps of MARY ANN ??
http://www.wact.com.au/McLean/910.html
Sue
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Hi Sue
Don't think that Clara Hoffmann could be Gertrude's sister or Mary Ann's daughter as she married in 1909
HOFFMAN CLARA
MILLEN RENNIE L
PERTH 311 1909 SUE
Reply #7 shows her death age and date.
She would have been a 19 year old bride.
Quite possible I think.
Sue
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Could this be Mary Ann's birth
March 1869
COOKE Mary Ann Leominster, Herefordshire 6a/563
I have located a Mary Ann COOKE 13 years of age on the 1881 census born Eye, Herefordshire living at Ashton with father William Mother Sarah and younger siblings Thomas, William Esther and Elizabeth.
Need to wait until Jimbach replies to the information given so far.
Cando
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Hi Sue
Sorry should have said she could not have been Mary Ann's daughter if Mary Ann was born 1881.
Cheers Sue
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Hi Sue,
Ahh..., no indeed!
A lot of evidence is definitely pointing to a revised birthdate for Mary Ann ;D
Sue
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Thank you all. I had made an error.Mary Ann Cooke wasborn in1868. She was daughter of WilliamCooke and his wife Phoebe (nee Jones) They had 6 daughters and at least 3 sons.Mary Ann herself had 4 daughters ...Clara m.Millen, Gertrude m.Murley, Nellie m.Godfrey Phoebe m.Nelson. jimbach
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There were 5 births in Leominster Herefordshire England (Morton Eye is in this district) for Mary Ann Cooke - June qtr 1855 - 6a 489
- Dec. qtr 1860 - 6a 454
- Sep.Qtr 1861 - 6a 51
- Mar qtr 1869 - 6a 563
- Mar qtr 1884 - 6a 536
I think it has been established that 1884 is not her birth date so -
1851 - Thomas Cook 29 farm lab. b.Middleton on the Hill Herefordshire
Mary Cook 32 b. Aymestry Herefordshire
Sarah cook 4 b.Eye Herefordshire
William Cook 1 b.
WILLIAM COOK brother 27 farm lab. b. Middleton on the Hill Herefordshire
NEXT DOOR
1851 - William Tipton 56 ag.lab. b.Kingsbolton Herefordshire
Margaret Tipton 63 Bethant Radnoreshire Wales
Phebe Jones gr.daughter 16 b. Ashford Shropshire
William Jones gr.son 1m b.Ludlow Shropshire
Ann Williams 12 sevant b.Eye Herefordshire
living in Eye Herefordshire
WILLIAM COOK married PHOEBE JONES Jun qtr 1851 Leominster Herefordshire 26 349.
1861 census William Cooke 38 Ag lab b.Middleton
Phoebe 28 b. Ashford Herefodshire
William Jones son 10 b.Ludlow Salop(Shropshire)
Thomas Cooke 8 b.Eye
Joseph Cooke 6 b. Eye
Susan 3 b.Eye
MARY A Cooke 5m b.Eye
Living in Morton Eye.
1871 census - William Cooke H 46 ag.lab b.Middleton on the Hill Herefordshire
Phoebe Cooke 36 b.Huntington Herefordshire (died 1895)
MARY ANN COOKE 11 b.Eye Herefordshire
Sarah Cooke 7 b. "
Fanny Cooke 4 b. "
Living in Moreton Eye Herefordshire
1881 - William Cooke 55 lab. b.Middleton on the Hill (Died 1897)
Phoebe 49 b. Ashford Salop
Fanny 14 b.Eye
Caroline 11 b.Eye
Arthur 7 b. Eye
GERTRUDE 5 b. Eye.
Living in Morton Eye Herefordshire.
1891 census-
Gertrude Cook - 16 gen.dom.serv. b.Morton Herefordshire for
Otto Friedlander , product merchant b.Denmark and living in SALE Cheshire with his family.
1891 census-
William Cook 68 farm lab. b. Middleton on the Hill
Phoebe 57 b.Ashford Carboull? Shropshire
Fanny 25 Domestic b.Eye
Arthur 18 shoemaker b. Eye
Annie - gr.daughter 4 b.SALE Cheshire (d.of Thomas)
Albert - gr.son 4 b. Luston Herefordshire (son of Joseph)
living in Eye
Joseph also had a daughter Gertrude b. 1889 Eye.
Thomas livedc in SALE Cheshire 1901.
Do these tie in?
Jean
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Dear Jean, many thanks. It did tie in. I based Mary Ann's age on the 1881 census. William Jones the son was born before his parents married. Gertrude Sarah and Thomas all went to Sale Cheshire. Sarah was my Grandmother. Gertrude moved to Penmaenmawr an Thomas was a shoemaker in Sale. I typed in much more but lost it. sorry to be so brief. There are still questions about Mary Ann in Austrailia.
Regards Jim.
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According to the 1861 census Mary Ann was 5 months so
this would most likely be her birth reg Dec. qtr 1860 - 6a 454
HOFFMANN Mary Ann
93 years 16 Sep 1963 Nedlands
This burial record may not be Mary Ann as the age is 10 years out.
Perhaps the purchase of the death certificate may help
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/A/application_forms.aspx?uid=9700-1192-2181-1982
Information on Australian certificates
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Robert Edwin Frank HOFFMANN - Journalist from KRIS electoral findings, is also buried at Karrakatta.
Cheers
Cando
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This death certificate may be helpful as well
HOFFMAN Thomas Hulbert 50 years
Father William Mother Unknown born Manchester England 1904 Reg#1923
The purchase of the funeral application forms for the above may also help identify them
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/FAF.html
or a photo of the plaques or headstones
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/photoServ.html
Cando
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Hello Cando Ive been re-reading some old letters fromGertrude andTom Murley at 2 B enporath St. Victoria Park .Mary Ann(my great auntPollie) was already dead by Dec 1955. Her daughter was never sure of her true age! I'm not sure whether she was still hoffman or Seymour.Thank you and kind regards ...Jim
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Jim I think certificates will only give you the information you need....perhaps the one of Mary Ann SEYMOUR who died in 1950 aged 88 years....or her marriage cert [if you think it is her] in in 1926. Obviously it can't be the Mary Ann who died in 1963 if your information is that she was dead by Dec 1955.
Australian Death Certificates have a lot of information, if known to the informant.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Thomas's death cert would give you where they were married and their chn.
Cheers
Cando
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Thank you for the prompt reply.I have applied for certs.I have fingers crossed.Jim.
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Mine are crossed as well Jim ;D
Cheers
Cando
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1881 Census Ashton in Eye
William Cooke 32 b Eye
Sarah Cooke 30 b Eye
MARY A COOKE 13 b Eye
Thomas Cooke 9 b Eye
William Cooke 6 b Eye
Esther Cooke 4 b Eye
Elizabeth Cooke 1 b Eye
Another daughter, Caroline 11 b Eye, is with her Grandparents Thomas & Mary Cooke
I hope this helps.
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hi jimbach-- i am related to fanny cooke, great grand mother. do you have much info on her family tree!!! what can you confirm on mary ann cooke regards
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hello there homer from a rather cold Anglesey u.k. ..re the family fanney[ frances] cooke was my great aunt...sister of my grandmother sarah cooke...she was the eldest daughter of William and phoebe cooke of eye in Hereford...shire.......I can communicate further with you by personal message...... just acknowledge this message and follow it up with a second message and then we can chat in p.m. mode .. I look forward to them ...are you in w.a. ..best wishes jim
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hi jim--thanks for your reply--look forward to personal message--regards
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hi jim--second reply--regards
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sorry im newish to reearch but i have a Gertrude Hyner or Hynes or Hayner.or similar who married Vernon Harcourt Hallewell in 1921 in England. just wondered if worth mentioning because there is confusing info and their son (my father) waa sent to Fairbridge Pinjarra Australia in 1929. she was probably his step mum and his birth mum died just before Gertrude married vernon (who was birth mum blanche jeanne kitson s husband tilnher unexplained death )