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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 16:57 BST (UK)

Title: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 16:57 BST (UK)
Hi there I was wondering if anyone had any links or any information on the above names.

I am back to 1843 but have hit a brick wall. The information i have is as follows

FERGUSON

Mary Laughland married Cuthbert Ferguson april 14th 1843. I cant find anything about their parents or indeed when they were born

Mary and Cuthbert had a son called James Ferguson who married Elizabeth Gillespie. Elizabeth died in 1887 aged 83. Her father was John Gillespie and her mother was Janet Gillespie nee Horns or Horner. [b]I have reached a dead end here.[/b]

James and Elizabeth had a daughter Jessie Miller Ferguson who would be my great grandmother.She married Alexander Graham.Alexanders dad was Andrew Graham who married to Janet Graham nee Mckillan. Also hit a dead end here

Any help or links would be appreciated.

many thanks
Ian
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 17:20 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

A good place to start is with the censuses as this gives some idea as to places of birth and ages. From 1851 - everyone showing as born in Stewarton Ayrshire:

Cuthbert Ferguson 28, Hand Loom Weaver
Mary Ferguson 27
Mary Ferguson 7
Agnes Ferguson 1

Address: Avenue, Stewarton Ayrshire

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 17:24 BST (UK)
Cuthbert and Mary look to be having children into the 1860 according to IGI at www.familysearch.org. Have you tried looking for their death certs on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk These would let you verify their parents' names including mothers' maiden names.

Looking at the names of some of their children, there is a daughter showing as born in 1847, Elizabeth Nairn Ferguson (may have died pre 1851 as she doesn't show with the family in the 1851 entry?) which I wondered if it could be Cuthbert's mother. There is a couple, James Ferguson and Elizabeth Nairn having children in the right time frame in Stewarton to be Cuthbert's parents. I'll check the 1841 census to see if he was still at home.

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 17:28 BST (UK)
Looks good for Cuthbert's parents  :) Have a look at www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl for the 1841 census (make sure you click on the 1841 option) and you will see Cuthbert at home with parents James and Elizabeth (Nairn). He's the only Cuthbert Ferguson coming up on 1841 searches so looks more that hopeful!

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 17:38 BST (UK)
Again, for Mary Laughland, if you look at FreeCen you will see a family in 1841 headed up by a James Laughland and Mary (Ramsay) with daughter Mary, age 17, in Stewarton. Given Cuthbert and Mary's first born daughter in 1843 was Mary (after her mother most likely), the family in 1841 for Mary looks promising. Mary's birth shows on IGI at www.familysearch.org

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 17:51 BST (UK)
This info points to the same details we have found so far http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=spares&id=I284

There is also a number of Public Member Trees on Ancestry on the family. Mary Laughland shows as having died on 26 JUN 1870 in Stewarton, Ayr and  Cuthbert on 11 NOV 1905 in Galston, Ayr.

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 18:16 BST (UK)
Regarding Elizabeth Gillespie, this is her and James Ferguson after their marriage in 1891:

James Ferguson 30, baker, b. Stewarton
Elizabeth Ferguson 24, b. Irvine
Jessie Ferguson 2, b. Stewarton
Cuthbert Ferguson 6 months, b Galson

Address: 18 Orchard St, Galston Ayrshire

With that place of birth for Elizabeth Gillespie, this is the only birth showing in Irvine which would fit:

ELIZABETH GILLESPIE  Birth: 24 APR 1866 Irvine, Ayr
Parents:JOHN GILLESPIE and JANET MILLER

As you can see, mother's maiden name is showing differently to what you have.

This looks the most obvious census entry in 1871 for the Gillespie family (name mistranscribed on the index I am looking at) - all the children showing as born in Irvine:

John Gellespie    34, coal miner b Ireland
Jenet Gellespie 33, b. Kilwinning Par, Ayrshire
Margaret Gellespie 10
William Gellespie 7
Elizabeth Gellespie 5, b.
John Gellespie 3
William Cairne 35, lodger

Address:  6 Square, Irvine Ayrshire

Elizabeth's marriage entry to James F. or her death cert would let you reconfirm her parents' details (I assume the death details you put for her were an error - 1887 age 83).

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 18:30 BST (UK)
wow you are ace!!! Ive been looking for hours. Thank you.

James ferguson indeed was a baker- i have his birth, death and marriage  from Scotlands people.

I have elizabeth born alos in irvine and died in 1953 aged 83

Jessie ferguson was my great grandmother. Her daughter is my grandmother Elizabeth gillespie ross born in 1925

Cuthbert i had no info on until now.I only have the wedding certficiate from 14th april 1843.

Im dead chuffed as i only strated this new hobby around 6 months ago.

You say there are pictures in those links above??????
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 18:46 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Don't think I made a reference to pictures in the links I gave, just more informantion.

Lastly, Alexander Graham  :) Assuming he was born in the same age range as Jessie F., this is a possible census entry for his family in 1891 - everyone showing as born in Glasgow except mother:

Andrew Graham 30, cloth lapper
Jessie Graham 28, b. Busby, Lanarkshire
Jessie Graham 10
Jeanie Graham 8
Marion Graham 6
Alexander Graham 4
Elizabeth Graham 1

Address: 18 Norman St, Bridgeton Glasgow

Jessie is a common variant for Janet. I can't easily see a marriage for parents on Scotlands People with the surname that you have for Janet but on Alexander's birth cert should be the date and place of parents' marriage and also let you reconfirm her maiden name. Does the age above match the approx. birth year you have for Alexander from other documents?

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 19:14 BST (UK)
With that place of birth for Elizabeth Gillespie, this is the only birth showing in Irvine which would fit:

ELIZABETH GILLESPIE  Birth: 24 APR 1866 Irvine, Ayr
Parents:JOHN GILLESPIE and JANET MILLER

As you can see, mother's maiden name is showing differently to what you have.


the writing on the certificates doesnt help does it tbh. Looks like i deciphered it wrongly
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 19:18 BST (UK)
Ian

Sometimes happens that either the image is too faint to read well or just bad handwriting  ::) You can contact SP on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/contactus/form.aspx?issue=24 regarding illegible image and they will send you via email an enhanced section for the words you are trying to read. Make sure you make a reference to the GROS image you have viewed and explain on which area you are having a problem with.

I wonder if mother's maiden name for Alexander Graham's mother is also perhaps something different?

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 19:24 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Don't think I made a reference to pictures in the links I gave, just more informantion.

Lastly, Alexander Graham  :) Assuming he was born in the same age range as Jessie F., this is a possible census entry for his family in 1891 - everyone showing as born in Glasgow except mother:

Andrew Graham 30, cloth lapper
Jessie Graham 28, b. Busby, Lanarkshire
Jessie Graham 10
Jeanie Graham 8
Marion Graham 6
Alexander Graham 4
Elizabeth Graham 1

Address: 18 Norman St, Bridgeton Glasgow

Jessie is a common variant for Janet. I can't easily see a marriage for parents on Scotlands People with the surname that you have for Janet but on Alexander's birth cert should be the date and place of parents' marriage and also let you reconfirm her maiden name. Does the age above match the approx. birth year you have for Alexander from other documents?

Monica

hi monica,

i have alexander graham as born in douglas/kirkaldy. He died quite young aged 38. I have him down as born in 1895 and died in 1933 unless i have misread it at all????

His dad indeed was Andrew Graham but have him down as an estate worker???

My grandmother was an only child, Elizabeth Gillespie Graham.

My grandmother tells me that Jessie Ferguson had the following sisters, but think she may have this wrOng as she is getting a tad forgettful. (COULD BE AUNTS) The people are

ELIZABETH (DIDNT MARRY)
PEGGY (MARGARET) WHO MARRIED ARCHIE MCKINLEY
JOHN WHO MARRIED, NAME UNKNOWN BUT HAD 2 DAUGHTERS NESSIE AND ELIZABETH
MARY WHO MARRIED JAMES BAILLE AND HAD 2 SONS JAMES BAILLE AND ANDREW BAILLE

Not sure if you could kindly point me in orrect path.

Thank you for all of your help so far.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 19:25 BST (UK)
Ian

Sometimes happens that either the image is too faint to read well or just bad handwriting  ::) You can contact SP on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/contactus/form.aspx?issue=24 regarding illegible image and they will send you via email an enhanced section for the words you are trying to read. Make sure you make a reference to the GROS image you have viewed and explain on which area you are having a problem with.

I wonder if mother's maiden name for Alexander Graham's mother is also perhaps something different?

Monica  :)

All i can see is that it looks like Janet mckillan, mckillam???
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 19:28 BST (UK)
I have the completely wrong family for Andrew, born too early the one I posted on. From what you have just shown, he was younger than Jessie Ferguson. Let me have a look at the 1901 census and see if we can see him there.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 19:30 BST (UK)
thank you.

If it helps jessie miller graham (ne ferguson) was born 1890 and i think she died on valentines day, unsure of year.

alexander grham was born 1895. died 1933 i think it was.

it looks like they married in 1921 on 31st march?????????
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 19:54 BST (UK)
Jessie's details are good, we're quite straight with her family. We have that 1891 entry above with her and family.

Alexander is proving difficult. Can't see him at all in 1901 with the parents' details that we have. The closest I can find has a different mother and and his birth year is later. Ticks a couple of boxes but not enough  :-\

Andrew Graham 43, Estate Clerk Of Works
Christina Graham 39
Margaret Graham 15
Janet Graham 12
Mary Graham 9
Helen Graham 5
Alexander Graham 2, b. Abbotshall, Fifeshire

Address:  Raith Laundry, Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall, Fife

Did you get his parents' details from his marriage or death entry?

Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 20:10 BST (UK)
ive just got the marriage certificate off scots people>>>

they married in 1921 on 31st march.According to it alex was a ploice officer??!!!!

It shows Andrew Graham a ploughmans labourer and is shown as  deceased on the marriage certificate. It also shows his mother being deceased

Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 22:10 BST (UK)
Ian

I've been going round in circles for a while with Alexander  ::)

I've had a look at this death cert in 1933 and I think mother may have been a Janet McLellan (has lots of variants although not McKillan which I now think just the way it may have been written up.

We have the marriage of an Andrew Graham and a Janet McLellan in 1879 in Douglas Lanark. You mentioned Douglas earlier in your post regarding Alexander.

This looks to be Janet's birth details on IGI:

JANET MUIR MCLELLAN Birth:18 MAY 1855  Douglas, Lanark
Parents:JOHN MCLELLAN and MARY CLARKSON

And for Andrew Graham, an illegitimate birth:

ANDREW GRAHAM  Birth: 01 DEC 1856 Lesmahagow, Lanark
Parents:   MARY GRAHAM

These details match what is on the marriage cert.

Census info for this family:

Andrew Graham 34, Ploughman Agr Labourer, b. Lesmahagow
Janet Graham 34, b. Douglas
Mary Graham 11, b. Lesmahagow
Margaret Graham 9, b. Douglas
Grace Graham 8, b. Douglas
Andrew Graham 6, b. Douglas
John Graham 5, b. Douglas
Hugh Graham 3, b. Douglas
Agnes Graham 1, b. Lesmahagow
William Graham 11 Days, b. Crawfordjohn

Address:Nether Abington Cottage, Crawfordjohn, Lanarkshire

And in 1901:

Andrew Graham 45, Ag Lab Ploughman
Grace Graham 18
Andrew Graham 16
John Graham 15
Hugh Graham 13
Agnes Graham 11
William Graham 10
Alexander Graham 7, b. Cranfordjohn, Lanarkshire

Address: Braehead, Cramond Midlothian

There is a death showing in 1900 in Cramond for a Janet Graham/M*c*le*

Why don't you contact the Strathclyde Police Archives at www.strathclyde.police.uk/index.asp?locID=448&docID=-1 to see whether you can find his record (which may well include his place of birth and personal details from some other I have seen).

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 22:16 BST (UK)
Regarding the siblings you mentioned for Jessie Ferguson, this was the family in 1901, likely there were more children after this date. Cuthbert Ferguson Snr. shows as living with them, explains why he died in Galston a few years later.

James Ferguson 40, baker
Elizabeth Ferguson 38
Jessie Ferguson 12
Mary Ferguson 7
Agnes Ferguson 4
John Ferguson 2
Cuthbert Ferguson 77, father

Address: 42 Orchard St,  Galston

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Sunday 10 May 09 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi monica, you have been very busy tonight for me. Thank you for all of your hard work and efforts, it is really realy appreciated especially when a complete novice to this. Thank you. 

In relation to the above of Janet McLellan and checking the certificate again it certainly looks correct after your efforts. i wouldnt have found this out in all honesty.

It certainly looks like i will be updating my family tree plan over the next few days now!!! As a novice to all of this, could you kindly suggest what avenue i should be taking now?? Should i go back further in time at all, or simply go through the "doglegs" of brothers/sisters????

Really sorry to be a pain and want more of your time.

Also, how could or where wouldi be able to find any photos of any of these people?

Regarding the death  of janet graham, and going to the police records, is that suggesting something untoward has happened?

I hope that i can stay in touch with you if you dont mind.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 23:08 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

RE my suggestion of the Police Archives it was regarding to trying to find Alexander Graham's service records  ;)  Police service records can carry an awful lot of personal information, just thought you might want to check them out if available to see what they contain. Nothing untoward in respect of his mother Janet!

In respect of finding photos of your ancestors it all depends whether you manage to make connections with other descendants of the family lines that may have had photos handed down to them over the years - sadly that one is down to pure luck. Be hopeful that one day you will  :)

How do you want to continue your research? People do it in a variety of ways. Some like to go back as far as they can until they really can't find any more, jumping up by parents to grandparents to ggggg's. Then go back and fill the lines with siblings and who they married and their chilrdren etc.

Other people go back stage by stage, finding out all they can about every family (siblings etc) before going back to the previous generation.

If I can give you any advice, apart from decide how you want your research to develop, it is to concentrate on one family line at a time. You do kind of get absorbed (aka obsessed  ::)) with one family group at any one time. It gets confusing if you try to do too many different lines at the same time.

You've got quite a lot of new information now. Maybe map it all out and get familiar with the names and lines before you decide.

To get the best out of RootsChat, if you get stuck on any particular line, maybe make a new posting for that particular family (if relevant add the link to this post so people don't repeat searches already done and bring to your attention something new).

People here are always ready to help when they can  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 11 May 09 07:40 BST (UK)
ahh right i see now. Ill contact them upon my return from work later.

Ideally i do want to see how far back i can go, but you hvae opened my eys now in terms of how names can change ie gillepsie/gellespie so i think i need to be more aware  ::)

Thanks again for your help.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Friday 06 August 10 13:01 BST (UK)
Hi Monica, I hope you are well and still about!  ;D

I have not had much tim in the last 12 months to continue with this, but i did attempt to try again a few weeks, but after our last conversation I have completely dried up in terms of finding any further information.

I was wondering if perhaps you had 5 minutes to maybe dig up something else so i can follow on forwards??


Thanks
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 13:45 BST (UK)
Monica, I today recieved an email saying their are some archives from the policeforce.I have ordered them today (10.60 each) and this is what they have said>

Quote
I have checked the name indexes to the police personnel registers and have found the following entries which would seem to match the details you provided:
 
Ref: SR22/55/25 no. 415, name Alexander Graham, year of birth c.1894, birthplace Crawfordjohn, year of entry to force 1920, age 25, force City of Glasgow
 
Ref: SR22/56/4 no.17, name Alexander Graham, year of birth c.1894, birthplace Crawfordjohn, year of entry to force 1920, age 25, force St Rollox division
 
Ref: SR22/56/8 no. 37, name Alexander Graham, year of birth c.1894, birthplace Crawfordjohn, year of entry to force 1920, age 25, force Southern division
 
Ref: SR22/56/22 no. 2710, name Alexander Graham, year of birth c.1894, birthplace Crawfordjohn, year of entry to force 1920, age 25, force City of Glasgow (Probationary
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 15:02 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Hope these documents arrive soon and have some info that will be useful as background for him  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 19:38 BST (UK)
I hope so too!!! The link you gave me last year regarding the Nairn line has been my latest source of looking further back down the line as it were but to be honest i cannot find anything from Elizabeth Nairns side of things ie her mother and father.

 Her dad was John Nairn who was a farmer and her mother was a Marianne Parker. According to it Elizabeth was baptised 15th august 1843? I cant find out when she died.

According to this, she was born about 1801 and died before 1877 http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=spares&id=I98

Is there any way you could clarify this for me please?

I cannot find a birth marriage or death date for either of John Nairn or Marianne Parker. All i get is no results found??? ???
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 21:03 BST (UK)
Hi Ian

Confused where we are at the moment  :P But that is not hard often with multiple lines and names!

Going back to your very first post, this was the line you were following:

FERGUSON

Mary Laughland married Cuthbert Ferguson april 14th 1843. I cant find anything about their parents or indeed when they were born

Mary and Cuthbert had a son called James Ferguson who married Elizabeth Gillespie. Elizabeth died in 1887 aged 83. Her father was John Gillespie and her mother was Janet Gillespie nee Horns or Horner. I have reached a dead end here.

James and Elizabeth had a daughter Jessie Miller Ferguson who would be my great grandmother.She married Alexander Graham.Alexanders dad was Andrew Graham who married to Janet Graham nee Mckillan.


___________________


Working back, we found that the Cuthbert Ferguson who married in 1843, was the son of a James Ferguson and Elizabeth Nairn. Details of the Ferguson family's 1841 census entry were included here http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=spares&id=I98

This Rootsweb link gives Elizabeth Nairn's parents as potentially a Cuthbert Nairn and an Elizabeth Cuthbertson. Not sure who John Nairn and Marianne Parker are?

Not seeing a death for an Elizabeth Nairn/Ferguson on Scotlands People post 1855. Possibility that the "death by 1877" may come from either a death or marriage of one of her children in 1877 where Elizabeth herself may have already shown as deceased.

Monica

Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 21:19 BST (UK)
Thanks Monica. I think i may have had a mad moment and pursued something uncessary!!! I believe due to fact i could not find a death date or anything.

 :-[ I will look more at Nairn and Cuthbertson and see what files i can bring up on Scotlands people seeing as i have just topped up my account!!!

Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 21:24 BST (UK)
Take care though with the units! We have no way of knowing at the moment what the name of her father was without being able to find her death entry. The name Cuthbert Nairn does not seem to be uncommon in those parts for that time period so there is always a danger you go off line without being able to verify anything  :-\
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 21:34 BST (UK)
Sort of struggling with dates etc of birth, death in order to pin down. I notice theres a will and testament for Cuthbert Nairn who was 80 when he died.......

I cannot find any marriage certs with Cuthbert or elizabeth
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 21:47 BST (UK)
I can only find 3 deaths of that name between 1801-1854 in th eplaces of

Peebles (1825)
Perth (1828)
Aberdeen (1855)
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 21:55 BST (UK)
Not sure if that Will entry relates to the Cuthbert who married an Elizabeth Cuthbertson. This is what I meant by there are a number of Cuthberts all around the same time and area  :-\

This is one family group with a Cuthbert for example http://home.comcast.net/~derek2000/tree/gggg_gp/cuna1759.htm (mention of wills there)

There is an Old Parish Register entry for a marriage for a Cuthbert and an Elizabeth Cuthbertson on    
22 October 1791 in Stewarton. Remember though, this is all before the start of official registration and parish entries are likely to be minimal in content.

Ian, if you, at this stage I would research whether there may be a monumental inscription to be found for James Ferguson and wife Elizabeth Nairn for possible clues. Also, possible grandchildren's names for them to see what if any clues you can get regarding possible grandparents' names.

There is nothing at the moment to give you clues as to possible names for James Ferguson and Elizabeth Nairn's parents other than the names they chose for their children (having said that, although we can't see a death for Elizabeth post 1855, there may be one for James Ferguson?).

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 21:58 BST (UK)
Sorry, missed your last post. As mentioned, death/burial registers before the start of official registration from 1855 can be thin on the ground unfortunately. You may not find a burial/death entry for Elizabeth if she died before 1855.

We have her and husband James in 1841. Have you tried to find her and family in 1851? We know Cuthbert, son, had married by 1843.

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 22:06 BST (UK)
I think this is the family in 1851, James father showing as widowed (from Freecen entry www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl)

James Ferguson 52, widowed, Muslin Weaver
Mary Ferguson 25
James Ferguson 20
David Ferguson 18
William Ferguson 15
Elisabeth Ferguson 9
Robert Ferguson 3, grandson
James Ferguson 7 Months, grandson

Address: Main Street, Stewarton, with a daughter Elizabeth showing as aged 9 above.

So mother Elizabeth death post from 1842.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 22:12 BST (UK)
You star- beat me to it  ;D

I only found these, but then her mothers names would not match..

No screenshots from SP allowed on RC due to Copyright

Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 22:19 BST (UK)
oops sorry monica  :-\
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 22:24 BST (UK)
 :) It's OK Ian. We just sometimes need to take care to observe copyright.

What is not OK thought is that I think James Ferguson may also have died pre 1855  :-\ Will be hard to confirm his details also. I can't see a death for him between 1855-61 and can't see him from that entry in 1851.

There is another couple showing in the early censuses in Stewarton called James Ferguson and wife Elizabeth, but not your couple.

Frustrating eh  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 22:31 BST (UK)
I should have known better ref copyright as i am an IT consultant..........

However yes i have stumbled on the same thing as you. I can see Cuthbert in 1851 but not 1861. I have managed to find a death for Elisabeth dated 22/03/1855 but i cannot read what it says at all.

Assuming i can post the number of the document it is 197/00 0030 0398 FYVIE if that is of any use, and of course if you need any top ups, i can provide.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 22:43 BST (UK)
 :o Great if you have found a death for Elizabeth in 1855! The first year of official registration in Scotland and entries ran over two pages of the register for one year only.

The entry should include details on all her childen (alive/deceased) and more importantly...parents' names!

If the entry is impossible to read, you can contact SP and ask for an enhanced scan of the image. Can make a big difference. SP are very quick to respond to this type of request. See www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210
Title: Re: Ferguson/Gillespie in stewarton
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 23:10 BST (UK)
Sorry, missed your last post. As mentioned, death/burial registers before the start of official registration from 1855 can be thin on the ground unfortunately. You may not find a burial/death entry for Elizabeth if she died before 1855.

We have her and husband James in 1841. Have you tried to find her and family in 1851? We know Cuthbert, son, had married by 1843.

Monica

Between 1841 and 1855 there are 8 deaths registered in that name.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 23:18 BST (UK)
Her death must have taken place from the time of the birth of daugher Elizabeth c.1842 and the 1851 census where husband James already showed as widowed.

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Monday 18 July 11 23:27 BST (UK)
if that thats the case then that reduces it to 6......in the following areas

Fife 1843
Angus 1843
Edinburgh 1846
Edinburgh 1847
Lanark 1848
Renfrew 1850
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 18 July 11 23:29 BST (UK)
None in Ayrshire (in particular Stewarton) which is the problem  :-\
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Tuesday 19 July 11 09:28 BST (UK)
agreed. Well last night i contacted the lady who created the pedigree fronm your excellent rootschat link. She gave me the following information

Quote
Hello Ian,
Thanks for your enquiry , just a bit of background on my tree data....
 
I did considerable research on my ancestors, ..Nairn.
Discovered Cuthbert Nairn [C1625] is ancestral name originating from Stewarton, Ayrshire. I believe all from Stewarton are linked to this common ancestor, with the name Cuthbert following as naming pattern in this area alone.
For my folly spent numerous hours researching old OPR films as reels... now available on the internet.. I have sumitted two other family trees relating to Nairn lineages on Rootsweb.com. and Ancestry .com [has the same...]
The "spares" data is exactly that .. I have been unable to conclusively  confirm direct ancestor line. Not sure if you have already but , most entries there have notes you may read... census, death, birth info...
 
Though from memory i seem to recall the Ferguson line somewhere had changed religion away from Presbytery think to Catholic. You may find entries now on Scotlands people site as I believe these are now available.
 
I started my genealogy journey as a quick foray into my ancestors... now 7 years later am still continuing. The Nairn line of Stewarton alone took constant research for 3 years.
 
The best advice i can give you is always refer to the source of your information.. for future reference, either to discount or confirm..
.
I read your original post on Rootschat, like you i was very fortunate to have had an experienced researcher lead me in the right direction...
 
Back to your particular line, at the present can not add further to the information i have already posted... but can with your permission add your data on subsequent descendants....
Would be interested if you find further info to confirm your Nairn ancestral line.
 
The inability to confirm the earlier lineages is because the OPR[Old Parish Records], for Stewarton are missing ..for us ...the vital years of 1715-1730...
 
Hope this is of help..will have another look at my data as time permits and will certainly contact you if i discover anything new..

She also provided me with this new link.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rustor&id=I2177

 :) Might go somewhere..........
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Thursday 21 July 11 12:37 BST (UK)
Bit of an update...

Quote
when i did the research on Nairns i actually read the original reels from the OPR, and worked the family lines out due to obvious dates but also the farm areas that each family appeared  to occupy... the early Nairn surname was written as Nern or Iron..
from my information your Cuthbert Nairn's [spouse of Elisabeth Cuthbertson] birth was as... son of "Joseph Nern , weaver in Muirhead and Jean Steell.
Baptised Nov 26th 1769"
The naming pattern for your Cuthberts  subsequent children followed the usual naming after grand parents then parent etc.
 --then on these childrens death certificate some have given your Cuthberts name as John.So probably much the same as we do now, the family have given a nickname as known to them.
Also when you delve back into history so many mistakes made on documents..the information given is only as good as the informant.... plus earlier names were spelt different from what we would now assume.
 
Marriage between Cuthbert Nairn & Elisabeth Cuthbertson, date of booking was Oct 22nd 1791. this was probably when the banns were read.
Cuthberts parents...
Marriage between Joseph Iron and Jean Steil.
 Dec 3rd 1754.
 
Joseph ,Surname spelt Nern,
1732 Mar 6th
Nern, Joseph a lawfull son to Cuthbert Nern in Hole.and Janet Gardiner, his spouse. Bapd
 
Cuthbert Nern and Janet Gardiner married 9 Mar 1731.
 
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Thursday 21 July 11 14:06 BST (UK)
pedigree online

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/28434089/family
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Friday 22 July 11 17:13 BST (UK)
Really stuggling to find a death certification for Jessie Miller Ferguson if anyone can help me please?

In relation to to this person i am also struggling to find any specific dates or certificates for the following>

Margaret Ferguson who married Archie/Archibald Mickinley/Mckinlay. He had a brother and a sister called Gray and Barbara.

Mary Ferguson born 1894 who married James Baillie who then had 2 sons (*)

John Fergusons born 1889 who married  (UNKNOWN) unable to find marriage date and had 2 daughters  (*), only one married.

Agnes Fergusosn did not marry .Cannot find death date

(*) Names edited out to protect the identity of living people, or people who may still be living, in accordance with RootsChat policy
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 22 July 11 21:30 BST (UK)
Really stuggling to find a death certification for Jessie Miller Ferguson if anyone can help me please?


I think Jessie died in 1952. There is a death showing that year for a Jessie Miller Ferguson/Graham born c. 1889. The death shows in Lanarkshire (not within Glasgow).

Monica
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Saturday 23 July 11 09:00 BST (UK)
Thanks Monica.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: UNDERTAKER on Saturday 03 March 12 11:17 GMT (UK)
Do you have any Agnes Gillespie's in your Tree either born in 1847 or 1858 born in Alloa or living in Denny Falkirk.?



M. 

 
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: UNDERTAKER on Saturday 24 March 12 07:26 GMT (UK)
Do you know if Elizabeth Gillespie Ross had someone in her Family Tree called Isabella Ross born in 1859 in Denny Stirlingshire.?

M.
Title: Re: Ferguson/Nairn in Stewarton,Ayr
Post by: thesludge on Saturday 18 October 14 15:04 BST (UK)
Do you know if Elizabeth Gillespie Ross had someone in her Family Tree called Isabella Ross born in 1859 in Denny Stirlingshire.?

M.

No noone of that name at all rings a bell in the family.