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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: johnbarr on Sunday 10 May 09 09:52 BST (UK)
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I am trying to track back ancestors of Christina Palmer who married Thomas Harvey in 1873. Printout shows Benjamin Palmer as a witness, and ITM shows wedding was to take place at the house of Benjamin Palmer in Thames
(see previous post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,347783.0.html)
I am presuming ::) that Benjamin was her father.
Althea has kindly shown a Benjamin Palmer, miner, on a Thames Directory for 1875, which could be the same man. A Benjamin Palmer was buried in Thames in 1912 at age 69 so could be her father, but his birth in 1843 doesn't fit with hers in 1852 ???
The only passenger arrival I can find is a Benjamin Palmer arrived in Auckland in 1849 as a member of 8th Detachment of Fencibles and a Fencibles site shows he was born 1805 and died in Auckland in 1879.
NZ BDM search shows a Benjamin Palmer died 1875 at age 75 which could be the same man.
Can anyone show that he was (or was not) the father of Christina.
NZ BDM has no record of a Christina Palmer born in NZ around 1852 (she was 21 when married in 1873) but there are several un-named female Palmer children about that time. Would a printout from that era show parents?
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He could be her brother whose house she married at ;D
There are a couple of Benjamin Palmers having children, surprisngly named Benjamin ;), in the 1870's.
So the one who died aged in 1879, aged 75 her Father. ???
The one aged 69 who died 1912 her brother. ???
Maybe Mrs Palmer and children came out later.
Trish
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Benjamin Palmer, NZ Fencibles, arrived on the Oriental Queen with wife MARTH (Martha?) CARSON 1849.
http://www.nzfenciblesociety.org.nz/wawcs017849/the-fencibles.html
The Oriental Queen had 71 pensioners, 62 women, and 168 children aboard.
Unfortunately cannot find list of childrens names ::)
From this site;
http://www.geocities.com/wlorac/orienq49.txt
Marthas sister Margaret Carson was on same boat ;D
Benjamin was from Shropshire and died 1879
There are 3 Martha Palmer deaths between 1871-1893 that are possibles.
Trish
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HI
YEs sounding more like it was her ?brothers house she married at
Just mentioning there was also A JAMES PALMER (fencible) his wife was CHRISTINA ORR nee Stewart. He died East Tamaki 1880.
Did marriage cert say father was BEnjamin?
Refresh my memory, did we look for Hill's Index newspaper references for any of these Thames events?
BYe
Althea
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Trish, thanks for your thoughts and links. I wonder if we can check to see if either of the two Benjamin Palmers born in 1875 and 1878 were in Thames? That might help to determine if the wedding witness was a brother or father.
I see a Mining Right was granted to a Benjamin Palmer for Waikawau in 1868 .
Occupation of Benjamin Palmer witness was shown as Miner, Shortland.
I wondered if there was any account which showed what became of Fencibles after they finished their military commitments ??? i.e. is there any way we could connect the Fencible with the miner and wedding witness ???
Hi Althea. Marriage was 1873 so unfortunately, no parents names shown :'(
That's the problem.
Do not recall Hill's Index being mentioned - it's not in previous post.
Thanks
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A bit more on BEnjamin in case it triggers someone's memory
There is a marriage for a Benjamin Palmer 1870 to MARY PICKET
I see the wife of the Benjamin in THames is Mary...so again fits in with age and possibility of brother. Would be interesting to know who his witnesses were????
Charles Palmer was the earliest Palmer in Thames (famous Lolly shop) but can't see any mention of children
Bye
Althea
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Re the fencibles first, the fencibles society have a wealth of information and many submitted forms from family all gathered in a file, but if you want it done by mail/email there is a small charge.
1876 ELectoral objections
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~althea/Objections%201876%20Electoral%20Roll%20Thames.htm
THAMES 2487 PALMER Benjamin Grahamstown Household New qualification
Could have been he just moved to dwelling, they seem to have objected over anything
They said same thing on 1874
http://corohistory.googlepages.com/challengestothe1874electoralroll
I have the 1876 Electoral roll, not yet transcribed:
No 2694 Palmer, Benjamin, Grahamstown, household, Dwelling block 5A, Grahamstown
No 2695 Palmer, BEnjamin, Shortland, leasehold, Dwelling, Baillie Street, Shortland
Now I don't think we can immediately assume that these are 2 different prople, given those objections.
Bye
Althea
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A quick look at the Hills index of early newspapers, sadly showed no BEnjamon or Christina entries
but appears there was an earlier palmer
GEORGE, (THAMES STAR 1902, 10th May) died age 85
http://web.tcdc.govt.nz/cemeprod/cemeteries.aspx
Charles Palmer had a son 1875 (HERALD 15th march) Charles wife was Ruth she died aged 53 (Thames Advertiser 1885, 27th July).
I've got the M/I's coming from the library, as I have many to look up so will see if anything is mentioned, which gives any clues.
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Thanks for your suggestions Althea, I'll try the NZ Fencible Society - that sounds promising. :)
Marriage of Benjamin to Mary in 1870 sounds promising too - shame it's such a common name - genie's nightmare ::) Yes, might be worth getting printout to show witnesses, although I guess no parents would show. I see Annie Picket got married same day, 21/01/70 and next registration number, so probably sisters.
Interesting about the Electoral Roll - but at least it establishes a Benjamin was in the area at that time.
Your help is much appreciated :D
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From Thames (Shortland) B/R fiche
Ruth PALMER buried 27 Jul 1885 aged 53, Episc, born England
Charles PALMER buried 4 Jan 1910 aged 78, Episc born London. Ruth's husband according to h/s
Alice PALMER buried 23 Dec 1888 aged 15, Cath, born Thames, plot 2218 - purchased by Mary PALMER, Karangahake
Benjamin PALMER buried 26 Jun 1912 aged 69, Cath, born England, plot 2218
Mary PALMER buried 12 May 1922 aged 83, Cath, born Ireland, plot 2218
H/S
Alice, dau of Ben & Mary PALMER (no date), also Benjamin PALMER, d 23 June 1912 a 69
Alice born 1873 no parents names listed
Sarah Ann born 1875 parents Benjamin/Mary
Gertrude born 1877 same parents
Benjamin James born 1878 same parents
Ian C
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If only we could find the link between all of them and my Christina Palmer ???
Many Thanks to all for the extra data. :)
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Fingers crossed the Fencibles society may have something
Bye
Althea
PS some email contact at bottom of page
http://www.fencible.org.nz/living_museum_education.html
will pass you to right person for lookup
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Hi John,
I came across your post by accident, so have just joined rootschat to give you some of the details I have. Benjamin Palmer was the step brother of Christina. He was a miner in Thames during the gold rush. The other witness listed at the marriage, Elizabeth Palmer, was Christina's step sister (there were two Benjamin Palmers in the Thames area at this time-hence some confusion-the other Benjamin was married to Mary (nee Picket) and they had a family in Thames. They are the ones buried in Shortland Cemetary, Thames).
The Benjamin and Christina and Elizabeth Palmers of this post are the children of James and (sometimes Janet) Christina Palmer (was Orr, nee Stewart), who came to NZ as a Fencible on the Berwick Castle in 1852. They were married in Holy Trinity Chapel, Paisley, Scotland on 5th January 1851, and were living at 9 Brick Lane, Paisley at the time of the 1851 UK census (you can check out the Lane on Google maps, street view). James’ occupation is listed as nightwatchman on the census form. James Palmer was born in Ireland, near Cookstown, County Tyrone, in about 1805, and served in the 1st of Foot Regiment, serving in the West Indies and Gibraltar. He was discharged in 1844, due to ill health. Christina Stewart was born in Glasgow in about 1823. On arrival in NZ they settled in Howick, living in Gibraltar St for a while on James’ allotted land. They had 15 children between them, 13 of them together. They are buried in the small churchyard of St Johns Theological College, Auckland.
Christina (the daughter) was born in Paisley, Scotland on 1st May 1852, shortly before their departure to NZ. Benjamin was born in 1940 in Gibraltar, while James was stationed there in the army (obviously born to another woman). Elizabeth Palmer, the other witness to the marriage to James Harvey, was born in Edinburgh in about 1847, while Christina (the mother) was married to Orr.
Christina married James Harvey on 11 April 1873 in Thames. He was born in Birmingham on 6th Oct 1843. They had 3 children, James Charles, Elizabeth Alice and Ruth. Husband James died 19 Sept 1878 in Fielding. Christina remarried Richard Organ (son of another Fencible, Richard Organ) on 9 August, 1883. She had another 4 children from this marriage. She died 27 May 1929 and is buried at Purewa cemetery, Auckland. I have details of all her children.
I can find no sensible dates for Benjamin Palmer’s marriage or death in NZ. There is a Benjamin Palmer listed as a passenger on the vessel “Rotorua”, headed from Auckland to Sydney on 28th July, 1879, so maybe he headed off to make his fortune on the goldfields of Australia.
I am descended from William Walter Palmer, one of Christina’s many brothers. Let me know if there’s any particular information you need-I have information on all Christina’s siblings.
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Hi BPalmer
Welcome to Rootschat, and thank you for joining in order to help me.
You will find the Rootschatters a very friendly and helpful bunch, and a great resource if you are trying to track down anyone anywhere 8)
Your news is very welcome and will be a great help.
I am not related to the Palmers, but was doing this research on behalf of a family friend, who I know will be delighted to hear this latest news. ;D
It's some time since I looked at this family, so will take a while to digest all your references and put them in place. I'll let you know if there's any more information required. :)
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hello there - I am very interested to know all the name of the siblings of Christina Organ nee Stewart/Orr. She is my great great grandmother. I have various lots of information but always keen to clarify. Many thanks Kerry NZ
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Hi Kerry,
Looks like your request has been answered on another thread "Re: Gibraltar. Birth details needed for the son of a UK soldier, born 1840"
Cheers
John B
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I am also related - through sibling Isabella Florence Palmer. If Brian or Kerry are still monitoring this thread I would love to message with you.
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