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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Antrim => Ireland => Antrim Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Newgent_for_life on Thursday 23 April 09 18:52 BST (UK)
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The Cave Hill with its majestic "nose" overlooks Belfast, as we all know. I grew up in the vacinity of Antrim Road, Glengormley and was always quite familiar with that area. There is one area called Colinward near to Glengormley and adjacent to the Whitewell area and it has its own castle; Colinward Castle (long since gone). One other thought worth mentioning is that the Cave Hill got its name from the caves, when its proper name was Colinward.
Yours, etc.,
Newgent.
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Sorry to butt in here New gent...where was collinward castle?? I've been researching this area for a while and am very interested. Do you also know anything of Glengormley House (built 1834) which was only recently demolished? It was located on the edge of cave hill where the Collinbridge estates now are. The appartments which have replaced the old house are called Collinward Manor.
Again,apologies for hijacking the thread and thanks for any info!
Liscoole
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My Dear Liscoole,
You are not butting in or, for that matter, hijacking anything. It is always refreshing to read any new comment.
If you are familiar with the Antrim road, come with me and I will take you to Collinward Castle or at least to where it once stood. " We are standing at the traffic entrance to Bellevue Zoo. We cross over the motorway (M2) and head towards Glengormley. We pass the traffic lights at O'Neill's Road and at the next set of lights turn left into Glengormley Park. Not far up Glengormley Park, on the left, we turn into Collinbridge Road. Might we just pause here a minute and reflect on the name of this park. Collinbridge was built in the late 1950's and named after Collinward and the new bridge which would straddle the motorway. As we progress up Collinbridge Road, we cross the bridge and take the next turn on the left. This takes us into what is known as Vadegan and it was in this field that Collinward Castle stood".
Newgent.
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New Gent this is really really interesting... I have PMd you.
Lis
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Dear Liscoole,
I was over at Glengormley last Saturday and had a look round Collinbridge. By the appearance of the house I would say that it was not completely demolished as it seems to retain the front facade. Originally there would have been one main front entrance between two circular bays. When the house was converted to five separate units there were two front entrances between the bays. Now the developers have reverted back to one entrance. I notice you have dated the house at 1834. It is difficult to put an exact date on when it was built without referring to the deeds etc., however a well known Belfast artist, Basil Blackshaw was born there in 1932. His father, being a horsey man, rented the whole property but would later move to Boardmills where Basil was known from. I will have to do more research into the occupants as I have heard of a German family who also lived there. One other interesting point of note is that at the foot of Glengormley Park there is a house which bears no resemblance to any other house near by. This is because it was a gate lodge. As it is finished in rusticated stone work it appears rather grand for Glengormley House; finished in mere pebbledash. So it is possible it might be the gate lodge of Collinward Castle. I will let you know if I get anymore information.
I think it is better if this post is made public so that others may contribute.
Yours etc., Newgent.
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Hi New Gent
Thanks for your info and research! Interesting what you say about the area. I got the date for Glengormley House from the Ordnance Survey Memoirs of 1838-39 which say that the house was built in 1834 by Alan Gardner Brown. His family were originally from Peter's Hill in Belfast. His brother was Rev John Brown, who was employed in the House of Correction in Belfast c 1820. The brothers owned several properties in West Belfast around that time. It seems that John went over to Aberdeen and various other members of the Brown family went to live in Dublin. I dont know what happened to Alan, but one way or another the house changed hands many times over the years.
The ordnance survey memoirs also say that Alan Gardner Brown owned a threshing wheel not far from the house which was driven by a waterfall- and today there is still a fast-flowing waterfall which emerges between two houses not far from where the old house used to stand.
I think you are right about the gate lodge too. I had never thought of that. I have checked the old Ordnance Survey Maps and Collinward House was situated not very far from Glengormley House so it could well be that this house was the gate lodge for the estate, right at the bottom of the hill. Ive yet to find out about Collinward House itself- it isnt mentioned in the Ordnance Survey Memoirs so it must have been built after 1838/9. I'll see what I can find out about it. As you know, Collinward Cottage is still standing today and is a working farmhouse.
I imagine the area would have been quite a bleak place to live in those days, so high up on the hill and exposed to the elements! However there would have been a superb view of Belfast Lough!
Liscoole
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Dear Liscoole,
As the Collinward that we are interested in is different than the Collin Hill topic, I thought it better if we had a separate topic. Lets hope the topic "Glengormley House" will be of interest to others.
So the question remains; when was Glengormley house built?
Moderator's Note: previous Glengormley posts split from other thread and place here in new topic
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Hi Newgent
We've established that Glengormley House was the first house to be built in 1834 and Collinward house was built quite a while after that.
Interestingly enough, I have been looking at the Ordnance Survey Maps again and Collinward House was there even after the collinbridge estates were built circa late 60's? So it was probably only demolished when they started building the Vaddegan estate.
I think that it was also built by the Brown family, who owned the nearby Glengormley House, but am not 100% sure of this. The ecatalogue at PRONI mentions Alan Gardner Brown " the owner of Glengormley House and Collinward".
Do you remember the house at all Newgent? If so, what was it like? Was it occupied/unoccupied? Any thoughts at all would be great.
In the meantime I will keep searching
Lis
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Dear Liscoole,
What I remember of Collinward is this;
In the late 1940s, early 1950s as a boy I would have played in the fields surrounding Glengormley House and Collinward Castle. (I call it castle because that is what I always new it as and I'm sure if I was wrong, my mother would have corrected me). In saying that it could have been a substantial house. I knew all the residents of Glengormley House; the Baird's; the McAllister's; the Dobb's; and the Erskine's. I never knew who lived in Collinward House. In those days this house/castle had been badly damaged by fire and the residents continued to live in the remaining rooms. This gave the house an eerie appearance so, even though we played in their fields, we never ventured near the house. From the Antrim Road the house was approached by Collinward Park. At the top of the park where there is now a hedge there was an ordinary iron gate; something similar to a farm gate. This was the only entrance and it was by a rough path, cut in a crescent shape across the gentle upward sloping field.
You are right in your assumption that the house was demolished when Vaddegan was built. The house would have stood roughly where No. 34 Vaddegan Road is now. There must have been some long term planning for that whole area. The original spans to support Collinbridge Road and Hightown Road bridges were dated 1952 and it was the mid sixties before that section of the M2 was laid. Collinward House was going to lose its entrance, so a new entrance was made which is now Vaddegan Road. The first bungalow on the right as you turn into Vaddegan Road was originally numbered on Collinbridge Road. This bungalow was built for a retired Sea Captain, hence the raised entrance that looks like a ship's bridge.
In those days Glengormley House and lands was owned by Samuel McBride. After the Second World War his son, Major Tom McBride commenced building what is now known as Collinbridge.
Yours sincerely,
Newgent.
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Hi Liscoole,
In researching my family tree, I found that a great aunt of mine, Mrs. Margaret T Pender
(1848-820) lived in Glengormley House around the latter end of the 19th century, from c.1875-1896. Before Glengormley House, she lived in the black-stone houses attached to Whitewell Printing Works, where her husband, Owen Pender, worked. Mrs Pender was herself a well known poet and authoress of the day and had many stories published in the national irish press from 1885 to her death in 1920. She also had several books published around this time and was considered to be one of the best writers of Irish Fiction of her day. Sadly now her work has fallen into obscurity but I have been able to unearth much of her work from old newspapers etc.
Incidentally, I grew up on the Whitewell Road, just below Bellevue steps, and lived there from the 1940's until the 1960's, so I am very familiar with the area.
Whitewell
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Hi Liscoole,
In researching my family tree, I found that a great aunt of mine, Mrs. Margaret T Pender
(1848-820) lived in Glengormley House around the latter end of the 19th century, from c.1875-1896. Before Glengormley House, she lived in the black-stone houses attached to Whitewell Printing Works, where her husband, Owen Pender, worked. Mrs Pender was herself a well known poet and authoress of the day and had many stories published in the national irish press from 1885 to her death in 1920. She also had several books published around this time and was considered to be one of the best writers of Irish Fiction of her day. Sadly now her work has fallen into obscurity but I have been able to unearth much of her work from old newspapers etc.
Incidentally, I grew up on the Whitewell Road, just below Bellevue steps, and lived there from the 1940's until the 1960's, so I am very familiar with the area.
Whitewell
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Hi Whitewell
thanks so much for your very interesting posts! Have you any other information about the old house during the time that your great aunt lived there? I must say the photo of her is fabulous. She was a very beautiful woman as well as obviously talented at writing.
As you probably know the old house is now an appartment building. They have tried to keep some sense of the original design by way of a facade at the front entrance. It always fascinated me as I grew up very close to it and it was so old and grey compared to the rest of the houses in the immediate vicinity. We used to dare each other to run through the grounds and the old ladies who lived there would beat the windows at us and shake their sticks... (bad and naughty, I know! :o) That's why I decided to find out some of its history. So Ive tracked it back to its original owner and builder, Alan Gardner Brown (the house was built in 1834). As far as I can tell, most of his siblings and some of his children went off to live in Dublin. Not surprising considering the location of the house- right at the very top of a hill! It must have been a very cold place in the winter!
Anway, thanks again for your post and very interested to hear if you have anything else about your aunt or the old house.
Liscoole
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Hi Liscoole,
Sorry I can't add too much info about the origins of Glengormley House, but like you, I can remember it from my youth as a rather imposing building, in its own grounds, looking rather out of place among the new bungalows. Incidentally, my old Art Teacher from BRA, Michael Baird, lived in one of the apartments in the 1950's-60's. He painted some of his best works from the hills above Colinward. However, I can give you an interesting quote from Mrs Pender's Family Bible, written in her hand :- January 13, 1881. How time flies. This old book is here yet and me too. I see some old and some new entries here, this is another. Margaret Theresa Doherty Pender has three sons and two daughters, two of the boys are at school and the rest at home.I have sent three poems to 'The Nation' and ' The Freeman' as my contribution to the cause of Irish liberty.
'Tis a wet and cold foggy day and Willie, with a yellow, curley head is running around the floor with Nora and Maggie. I have an ulster to make for Nora and a coat for John to go to school. Twenty years ago, my Mother was doing the same for me - dear Ma. Owen is at work. I have a box of geraniums inside the window and a box of snowdrops and crocuses outside Glengormley House
Do you want to know what I am like? I have on a red petticoat and black jacket with canvas slippers - working gear. My hair is tossed about my brow, I am not old looking and I don't feel old.
Willie is pulling me, I must stop.
This snapshot in time gives a brief insight to life in Glengormley House in the 1880's - Willie, Nora and John are Mrs. P's children and Owen is her husband.
Hope this is useful,
Whitewell.
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Dear Whitewell,
I was born, Belfast, 1942 and was brought up in the vacinity of Whitrwell/Glengormley as my parents liven in Moreland Avenue. My father new, and often visited a Mr Shelledy, the Company Secretary of the Laundry, who lived in one of the houses butting on to the rear of the Laundry. I also knew, and was friendly with Robert McGladdery who's father was the company electrician. My parents were friendly with Major and Mrs. James St. Clair Finlay of Whitewell Road. I in turn was friendly with Desmond Finlay (not related), Billy Dunlop, Whitewell Terrace and Jim Kelly who's father was a farmer. As I said in a previous entry I knew all the residents of Glengormley House.
Looking forward to your comments. In the meantime I'll see what I can unearth.
Yours, etc., Newgent.
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Dear Newgent,
It sounds like we must have crossed paths at some time as we have some mutual friends judging from the names you mentioned. I lived a few doors from Dessie and Brian Finlay on the Whitewell Road and not far from Major Finlay's family, whose sons, Steven and Alan, were close friends to myself and my brothers. I also knew James and Desmond Kelly from Kelly's farm as that's where we got all our eggs and buttermilk in the 1950's. I was born in 1944 so we are of a similar age. Glengormley House was therefore slightly out of our immediate area, but we made regular forays up to Colinward and the old Laundry buildings where we fished in the Mill dams and tried to climb the old factory chimney ( unsuccessfully, I might add ) - these areas would be very familiar to you. Sadly the whole area is now swamped by urban development and nowadays bears little resemblence to how I remember it. Still, it's nice to correspond to someone who can relate to the area as it was when I was growing up.
Best wishes,
Whitewell.
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Hi again Whitewell (and Newgent!)
Thanks for your posts, I have been offline for a while due to switching providers but it's great to see the additions to this topic.
My neighbour who is now in her late 70's remembers the house well and had a friend who lived there. I think this was round the era that Tom McBride was on the scene.
Whitewell, thanks for sharing your ancestors diary entries, very interesting reading!
Best wishes
Liscoole
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Hello Liscoole, it's good to be able to correspond with you and others at Rootschat again. If you could put a name to your friend's friend who lived in Glengormley house, perhaps I in turn could put a date.
Yours, etc., Newgent.
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HI:
I am in the middle of researching Margaret T. Pender and would love to share information. Did you know her story O'Neil of the Glen was made into Ireland's first all Irish movie in 1916? Donna
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Dear Newgent,
It sounds like we must have crossed paths at some time as we have some mutual friends judging from the names you mentioned. I lived a few doors from Dessie and Brian Finlay on the Whitewell Road and not far from Major Finlay's family, whose sons, Steven and Alan, were close friends to myself and my brothers. I also knew James and Desmond Kelly from Kelly's farm as that's where we got all our eggs and buttermilk in the 1950's. I was born in 1944 so we are of a similar age. Glengormley House was therefore slightly out of our immediate area, but we made regular forays up to Colinward and the old Laundry buildings where we fished in the Mill dams and tried to climb the old factory chimney ( unsuccessfully, I might add ) - these areas would be very familiar to you. Sadly the whole area is now swamped by urban development and nowadays bears little resemblence to how I remember it. Still, it's nice to correspond to someone who can relate to the area as it was when I was growing up.
Best wishes,
Whitewell.
Hi Liscoole,
In researching my family tree, I found that a great aunt of mine, Mrs. Margaret T Pender
(1848-820) lived in Glengormley House around the latter end of the 19th century, from c.1875-1896. Before Glengormley House, she lived in the black-stone houses attached to Whitewell Printing Works, where her husband, Owen Pender, worked. Mrs Pender was herself a well known poet and authoress of the day and had many stories published in the national irish press from 1885 to her death in 1920. She also had several books published around this time and was considered to be one of the best writers of Irish Fiction of her day. Sadly now her work has fallen into obscurity but I have been able to unearth much of her work from old newspapers etc.
Incidentally, I grew up on the Whitewell Road, just below Bellevue steps, and lived there from the 1940's until the 1960's, so I am very familiar with the area.
Whitewell
May I use this photo of Mrs. Pender in my research. Please advice! Thanks, Donna
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Hi Donna,
I have extensive material plus some other good photos of Mrs Pender - too much to put across here. Perhaps we could email privately to compare notes. I'm not sure how this works, but if we could exchange email addresses we could discuss further.
Alex.
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Hi Alex and Donna,
Would either of you have a good copy of the iconic photo of Mrs Pender (in the dress)? Born and raised in Glengormley, I'm putting together a gallery of famous people from Glengormley. Everyone knows the famous ones (Stephen Boyd, Lillian Bland, Sadie Lee, etc), but Glengormley's literati (such as Derek Mahon, Padraic Fiacc and Margaret Pender) deserve to be better known.
Stephen
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Good afternoon to everyone on this forum.
My name is Inmaculada Hurtado, and I work at the University of Malaga (Andalusia, Spain). We are a research group that, at the moment, among other topics, wants to investigate the famous photograph of Margaret Theresa Doherty Pender that you show in your forum. I am a specialist in jewelry, and I believe that this image has a political reading.
We are mainly interested in the use of jewelry on her dress, as a sampler. Could any of you give us some help?
I am enclosing another color photograph we have found of Mrs. Pender.
Thank you very much for everything. Inma.