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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Ruskie on Friday 08 May 09 01:34 BST (UK)
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GEORGE HONEY
1901
Port Isaac
Endellion
Cornwall
William J Honey head mar 58 fisherman
Thura wife 50
Henry son s 20 AB merchant sea service
George son 14 fisherman
Gregory son 10
(all born Port Isaac)
RG13/2202/42/21
[George may have older siblings.]
Added later:
Yes, other siblings found on the 1891 census:
John age 15 farm labourer b 1876
Mary A age 13 b 1878
James age 8 b 1883
Added later:
More siblings for George from the 1881:
Joseph 11 b 1870
William 9 b 1872
Susie 7 b 1874
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Bit more on George Honey
George HONEY
Regimental number 1291
Place of birth Port Isaac, England
Religion Church of England
Occupation Labourer
Address c/o J Bradshaw, 'Beechboro', West Guildford, Western Australia
Marital status Married
Age at embarkation 30
Height 5' 8"
Weight 151 lbs
Next of kin Wife, Mrs Ann Brown Honey, c/o John Bradshaw, 'Beechboro', West Guildford, Western Australia
Previous military service Nil
Enlistment date 19 July 1915
Date of enlistment from Nominal Roll 12 July 1915
Place of enlistment Perth, Western Australia
Rank on enlistment Private
Unit name 32nd Battalion, D Company
AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/49/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Adelaide, South Australia, on board HMAT A2 Geelong on 18 November 1915
The 32nd Bn (Headquarters, Signallers, A, B, C, and D Companies) embarked from Adelaide, South Australia, on two ships, HMAT A2 'Geelong', on 18 November 1915, and HMAT A13 'Katuna', on 24 November 1915. The Embarkation Roll does not distinguish between these ships, and it is therefore not possible from the Embarkation Roll to ascertain on which ship an individual embarked. Those who enlisted in Western Australia embarked at Fremantle (date not recorded).
Rank from Nominal Roll Private
Unit from Nominal Roll 32nd Battalion
Fate Killed in Action 19 July 1916
Place of burial No known grave
Commemoration details V.C. Corner (Panel No 5), Australian Cemetery Memorial, Fromelles, France
Panel number, Roll of Honour,
Australian War Memorial 120
Other details War service: Egypt, Western Front
Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal
Disembarked Suez, 18 December 1915.
Embarked Alexandria to join the British Expeditionary Force, 17 June 1916; disembarked Marseilles, France, 23 June 1916.
Reported missing, 19 July 1916.
German report, 2 August 1916: 'austr. Sold. Honey, G. 32.I.R. D. Coy. Nr. 1291. am 19.7.16 in Gegen Fromelles gefallen.'
Name appeared on German Death List, 4 November 1916.
Red Cross File No 1360707 has statement from 1379 Pte F. THEW, D Company, 32nd Bn, 1 January 1916: 'I regret to inform you that there is absolutely no doubt as to his death. On enquiries from some of the other men who saw him at the time, I find that unfortunately he was bayonetted by the enemy in the encounter (19-7-16).'
Second statement, 3116 Pte H.C. GRIEVES (patient, No 2 General Hospital, Havre), 19 November1916: 'I knew Honey personally ... He was killed at Fromelles, being bayoneted in the head in the German first line. His body was not recovered. Lieut. [W.A.] WARD of the 32nd battalion (sic), saw this and told me later.'
Third statement, 1231 Pte A.W. CAMERON, 32nd Bn (patient, 1st Southern General Hospital, Birmingham, Moneyhull Section; statement undated): 'On the 19th July, 1916, at Fleurbaix, during a charge, Pte Honey ... was killed between the first enemy trench and our objective. We had taken the first trench and were making for the second line when I saw Honey fall struck by a shell. He fell face downwards, and lay there. He was badly knocked about. We went beyond our objective, but had to retire to our front trench next morning at 6 a.m. We could not get in any of the wounded, nor bury the killed.'
Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal
Sources NAA: B2455, HONEY George
Red Cross file 1360707
http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=142111
LEST WE FORGET
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Thanks for posting that Moi. :)
Poor George ...
Now, as he was married, there's a nice possibliity that he had children. :D There are a couple of WAustralians following these threads, so maybe they will be able to find something.
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George Honey aged 26 and single arrived in Fremantle (departed London 20th Dec 1912) in 1913 on board the Gothic.
Occupation given as farm labourer.
With him as Mrs Annie Honey aged 24.
Dee
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George Honey married Ann B. Bradshaw in the district of Bodmin in the December Quarter of 1912.
5c/139
Mrs Annie Honey's address as next of kin was c/o John Bradshaw, 'Beechboro', West Guildford, Western Australia.
So it seems likely that John Bradshaw was a relative of Annie's.
Dee
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There are not very many HONEY children born in Western Australia on the Historical BMD indexes. However, unfortunately the names of the parents are not on the Index! :-\
Dee
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Thanks to all interested writers. The Honeys had no children in WA. I have found the family of his wife's sister in WA and they MAY have an image of him. Aiming to find the Cornwall family.
PS All. I am part of the Tim / Sandra group.
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OK Boykett......I'll leave the Australian search then. I had found Ann Brown Honey's grave but that's not going to help find the Cornish family.
Dee :D :D
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This is what I have on HONEY in my file :)
___________________________
NAME Honey, George
SN Private
RANK 1291
UNIT 32 Battalion
HONOUR 3 Standard Entitlements
BORN Port Isaac England
OCCUPATION Labourer
RELIGION Anglican
DOE 12.07.1915 Perth W. Aust
AGE 30
Residence on embarkation: C/- John Bradshaw West Guildford W.Aust
STATUS KIA
DATE 20.07.1916 (19.07.1916)
AGE 31
BURIED Unknown
MEMORIAL VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel 5
AWM 120
DESCRIPTION Height 5 foot 8 with light hair
NOTES Notification from German authorities give date of death as 19.07.1916
Identity disks returned by German authorities
NOK Wife: Anne Brown Honey c/- John Bradshaw Traylor Road Bayswater W. Aust
Ann Honey died 31.08.1965 aged 79 cremated Karrakatta Wall N/180
John Bradshaw was Ann Honey's brother
Son: James William Honey born 02.05.1914
James Honey died 07.03.1951 aged 36 cremated Karrakatta Wall N/180
Served WW2 as W22607 5 MD W/C Fixed Defences. A Honey was NOK
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Sorry...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,375453.0.html
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Aiming to find the Cornwall family.
1901 Census
Port Isaac, Endellion, Cornwall
Atlantic House
John Bradshaw, married, 57, Mariner, b Port Isaac
Mary J Bradshaw, wife, 50, b Port Issac
Annie Bradshaw, 14, b Port Isaac
James Bradshaw, 12, b Port Isaac
Richard Bradshaw, 8, b Port Isaac
RG13\2202\44 Page 25
Port Isaac, Endellion, Cornwall
William J Honey, 58, Fisherman, b Port Isaac
Thora Honey, 50, B Port Isaac
Henry Honey, 20, A B Merchant Sea Service, B Port Isaac
George Honey, 14, Fisherman, b Port Isaac
Gregory Honey, 10, b Port Isaac
RG13\2202\42 Page 21
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Henry Tabb Honey married Janie Prior (b c1878 from 1911 census) in Dec qtr 1903 Vol 5c Page 171
Gregory Honey married either Mary L Murton or Melita Bate in Dec qtr 1912 (same time as George?) at Bodmin Vol 5c Page 140
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I thinkk that Gregory Honey actually married Melita Bate. There are a number of births for Honey children with mother's surname Bate, in Bodmin.
Regards,
L
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I thinkk that Gregory Honey actually married Melita Bate. There are a number of births for Honey children with mother's surname Bate, in Bodmin.
Regards,
L
Oops :-X
I found a Mary Honey but no Melita Honey in the 1911 census. I'll update my post until we get confirmation.
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Bit More,
We know the name of the ship was Gothic, and departing London Dec 1912, with the newly married couple George and Ann HONEY on board. Perhaps as several of the other Fromelles- missing - lads may have been part of various emigration plans, would there be archives at KEW that may have genie information about George or his wife's family and possible emigration scheme?
Just Moi.
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Hi All,
We don't seem to have advanced any further on this lad, George Honey fallen at Fromelles in July 1916. Just wondering if we are overlooking something obvious perhaps? Any suggestions please.
JM
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Pleased to report that the family of George Honey in Cornwall have been found.
They will be able to provide DNA if needed for identification.
Roger F
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Oh, that's great news, Roger...... :D :D
Dee
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There,s a bit on George here,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304988.0.html
Regards BrianT
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Given that we have no information yet on the quality of DNA extracted from the grave site (if any) have we checked to see if any living relatives of George's mother (through the female line) are traceable?
Has anyone eyeballed George's marriage cert as there are two George Honeys born in Port Isaac and their dates vary between the 1891 census and the 1901 census such that George Honey, son of William and Thirza is shown as 5 on the 1891 cenus and 14 on the 1901 census wheras George son of Mary Honey (widow) is shown as 4 on the 1891 census and does not appear on the 1901 census. There is no corresponding death for the other George Honey in England & Wales BMD that I can see.
I await clarification on this point.
Tjapaltjarri
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Further to my last I found on the 1901 census:
UK Census Collection > 1901 England Census > Essex > Wanstead District > The Merchant Seamens Orphan Asylum
George Honey 14 years b Port Isaac. Cornwall
This George was the son of George and Mary Ann Haynes married Plymouth in 1878.
This George Honey had an older sister Elsie Haynes Honey b ca 1879, married Mar qtr 1901 , an older brother William Haynes Honey b ca 1881 and another older sister Lizzie D Haynes b ca 1884, who is working as a domestic in Port Isaac in 1901 aged 17 years.
H
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Ah me I see from the other thread above that the connection to the Tabb line is clearly stated.
George Honey's mother was Thirza Tabb who was the daughter of Joseph Tabb and Grace Williams, who married in Falmouth Sep qtr 1843
Grace Williams was one of two twin girls born Bideford to Edward and Mary Williams in 1830 and christened at the Methodist Chapel in October 1830.
Thirza Tabb had no sisters but had two daughters.
She married William John Honey at Bodmon Jun qtr 1872.
Mary Grace Honey b ca 1878 was married - not sure whether she had children.
Susie ca 1874 - no further information
H
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Further on George Honey's older sister, Susie Honey b. ca. 1874, Port Isaac. She married in 1895 Ernest Alfred Hoskin (variously on BMD and censuses as Hosking, Hoskins) and had a bevvy of daughters so a good chance of getting a resultant descendant in the female line from these:
Catherine Billing Hoskin b ca 1898, Bodmin * on GR*
Mary Bradon Hoskin b ca 1899, Bodmin *on GR*
Susan Hoskin 1901 (1 month old on 1901 census)
Liza Hoskin ca 1901 (aged 10 on 1911 census)
Ada Hoskin ca 1908
Rebecca Hoskin ca 1910.
possibly more - Susie Hoskin was only 37 on the 1911 census. I haven't looked yet.
Best,
Tjapaltjarri
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Just to say, since I don't seem to get any response from anyone on the subject of Fromelles missing, that I've made contact with someone whose cousins are descended in the female line from George Honey's sister Susie Honey.
I will pm Sarah, but without any clear indication of what still remains to be done with trying to contact relatives at this point in time, and no response to my messages, my enthusiasm for assisting in this worthwhile project is rapidly starting to wane.
Best,
Tjapaltjarri
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Hi Tjapaltarri,
I'm still interested.... actually both OH and I are still interested... But like you we are disappointed that no one seems to be posting on RChat threads for those lads who were born "overseas" but enlisted in Australia ....
Just Moi.
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I think that a lot of the discussion on the subject has gone over to the WW1 discussion group on 'theinvisionzone'
I tried to join up but heard nothing so I'd better check my spam filter for messages :-) !!
Best,
Thapaltjarri
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Hi Guys,
Yes the work still continues and things are progressing. We still keep an eye on these 'overseas' chaps here but have recently been working very hard on some of the Australian born men so unfortunately our focus has been tied up elsewhere.
Tjapaltjarri, we are always extremely interested to hear from any descendants and most certainly we'd be keen to hear from the descendants of George Honey's sister. We currently have contact with another of Honey's descendants but newly discovered family members are always very welcome.
And we are still very appreciative of the work everyone here is doing.
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact us directly at fromelles@gmail.com
Bright Blessings,
Sandra (and Tim)
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That's good to hear Sarah,
I will pass the message on to my family contact.
I still believe that rather than listing the cases as completed it would be better to have separate columns for paternal and maternal DNA links. This will also help people who wish to help via rootschat to focus their efforts on what may contribute best to the overall aim, to get individually named headstones for the fallen.
It's hard to tell on the basis of undisclosed results from the 28 trial DNA extractions (reported on the invisionzone Fromelles Group site http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showforum=90) what proportion of the bodies recovered will yield sufficiently good material to allow identification by means of Y chromosome DNA analysis.
Covering your bets by finding candidates for both male and female lines would therefore seem prudent.
Best,
Howard
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Hi again Sarah,
Just to add to the comments of Just Moi and others, I too tried several times to make contact with Fromelles.net group via the email you gave and never received any acknowledgement.
I think it would be good public relations if you acknowledged all bone fide communications, even if only with a 'stock answer'.
I have a set of stock answer messages in *.txt format set up with shortcuts so I can cut and paste when needed. It takes but a few moments and helps to maintain goodwill ;)
Best,
Tjapaltjarri
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Tjapaltjarri,
As far as I know, we've never received an email from you? It's possible (but unlikely) that among the large volume of emails we've been receiving lately, we might have missed yours but I doubt it. If this happens to be the case then you have my apology. Otherwise please feel free to try again and I'll get back to you ASAP.
Cheers,
Tim L.
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I've looked again my my correspondence with George Honey's MtDNA relatives - identified a few more and written to them with information about how to contact the Australian MOD to assist with the identification process.
I haven't heard back but am hoping this will stimulate some action following the stories leading up to the successful identification of the 96 other AIF soldiers who fell at Fromelles and are buried in the Pheasant Wood Cemetery.
Failing a response it strikes me that isotope profiling of the teeth could assist - providing od course that teeth form part of the soldier's remains - as the geology around Port Isaac in Cornwall would leave quite a distinctive marker.
Best,
Howard
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Hi there. I'm new to all this and was just looking through some old censuses for no particular reason, and in my searches this thread came up. I'm a descendant of Gregory Honey, George's brother, although not through the female line. Not sure if that's useful.
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Its worthwhile contacting the Army ... you can do that via this page :)
http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Unrecovered-War-Casualties/Fromelles/The-Australian-Fromelles-Relatives-Database
Good luck ...
Bright Blessings
Sandra (Playle)