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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: spof on Friday 08 May 09 00:15 BST (UK)

Title: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: spof on Friday 08 May 09 00:15 BST (UK)
NAME   James, Arthur Mossop         
SN   689         
RANK    Private         
UNIT   30 Battalion         
HONOUR   Standard entitlements         
BORN   Paddington London         
OCCUPATION   Clerk         
RELIGION   Anglican         
           
DOE   08.02.1915 Liverpool NSW         
AGE   25         
   Residence on embarkation: 'Alicia' Railway Street Epping NSW         
           
STATUS   KIA         
DATE   20.07.1916 (19.07.1916)         
AGE   28         
BURIED   Unknown         
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery memorial panel 2         
   AWM 117         
           
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 3 1/4 light hair         
           
NOTES   Identity disk returned by German authorities         
           
NOK   Father: Albert James deceased         
           
   Mother: Susan Ashton         
   240 Guinness Bldgs Draycott Avenue Chelsea London
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 04:50 BST (UK)
Bit More

Arthur JAMES
Regimental number 689 Place of birth Paddington, London, England

Other Names Arthur Mossop
School Cook's Ground, Chelsea, London, England Age on arrival in Australia 24 Religion Church of ngland Occupation Clerk Address 'Alicia', Railway Street, Epping, Sydney, New South Wales
Marital status Single Age at embarkation 25 Height 5' 8.25" Weight 136 lbs

Next of kin Mother, Mrs Susan Ashton, 227 Guinness Buildings, Chelsea, London, England

Previous military service Served for 2 months in the 48th Canadians Royal Scots [?]; left the district.

Enlistment date 8 July 1915 Place of enlistment Liverpool, New South Wales Rank on enlistment Private Unit name 30th Battalion, C Company AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/47/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board HMAT A72 Beltana on 9 November 1915 Fate Killed in Action 20 July 1916 Place of death or wounding The Somme, France Age at death 28 Age at death from cemetery records 28 Place of burial No known grave
Commemoration details V.C. Corner (Panel No 2), Australian Cemetery Memorial, Fromelles, France
Panel number, Roll of Honour,Australian War Memorial 117 Miscellaneous information from

cemetery records Parents: Albert JAMES and Sarah Susan ASHTON (formerly JAMES), 240 Guinness Buildings, Draycott Avenue, Chelsea, London, England

Other details War service: Egypt, Western FrontEmbarked Sydney, 9 November 1915; disembarked Suez, 11 December 1915.Admitted to 3rd Field Ambulance, Rel el Kebir, 15 February 1916 (sprained ankle); discharged to unit, 16 February 1916.Found guilty, 22 March 1916, of using improper language to an NCO: awarded 3 days' punishment drill.Admitted to 8th Field Ambulance, Ferry Post, 15 April 1916 (diarrhoea); discharged to and rejoined unit, 19 April 1916.Admitted to 15th Field Ambulance, Ferry Post, 6 May 1916 (accidentally injured, left arm, while practising bomb throwing), and transferred same day to No 2 Australian Casualty Clearing Station; discharged to duty, and rejoined Bn, 8 May 1916.Admitted to 8th Field Ambulance, 17 May 1916 (old bomb wound, left arm), and transferred same day to No 2 Australian Casualty Clearing Station; to No 1 Australian Stationary Hospital, Ismailia, 19 May 1916; discharged to and rejoined Bn, 3 June 1916.Embarked Alexandria to join the British Expeditionary Force, 16 June 1916; disembarked Marseilles, France, 23 June 1916.

Reported missing, 20 July 1916.

Note on Form B103: 'Identity Disc received from Germany. No particulars were afforded except that Soldier was deceased. May now be reported "KILLED IN ACTION" 20/7/16.'

German report, 2 August 1916: 'austr. Sold. James, Arthur C. 30. Batt. austr. Nr. 689. am 19.7 in Gegend Fromelles gefallen.'

Red Cross File No 1420605 has statement from 741 Pte F.W. RAYSMITH, 30th Bn, 28 August 1916: 'I knew James; his initials were A, and he was in C.C. and his number was 689. He was wounded on the back of the shoulder (left) on the 19th. July, at Fleurbaix, and was in No. 8 Stationary [Hospital] at Boulogne with me afterwards and went to England from such hospital on the 21st. July. I am quite certain of the above facts.' Note by interviewer: 'One of the most intelligent and careful witnesses I have ever met.'

Second statement, 759 Pte F. SCHOLES, Machine Gun Section, 30th Bn (patient, No 6 General Hospital, Rouen), 7 December 1916: Informant was told by Pte. C.R. Daws of C Co., 9 Pl. [cannot be identified], that he was with A. James when he was killed. He was shot in the stomach. It was on the 19th July at Fromelles between the German 1st and 2nd lines.'

Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal
Sources NAA: B2455, JAMES Arthur
Red Cross file 1420605 
http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=151521

LEST WE FORGET

Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 08 May 09 09:16 BST (UK)
Arthur Mossop James bn Jun qtr 1888 Paddington 1a 24
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 08 May 09 09:36 BST (UK)
Some confusion over surname perhaps - in 1891 the family is at 18 Marlboro Sq, Chelsea
Albert James Ashton  H  Mar  28  Postman  bn Kent Canterbury
Sarah Susan Ashton  W  Mar  28  bn Chelsea
Arthur James Ashton  Son  3  bn Paddington
RG12/59/100/36
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: fedelmar on Friday 08 May 09 09:49 BST (UK)
I double checked ... his surname is JAMES.  First and second names are 'Arthur Mossop'.

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 08 May 09 11:52 BST (UK)
I double checked ... his surname is JAMES.  First and second names are 'Arthur Mossop'.

Bright Blessings
Sandra


Sorry, I meant that I wonder if when they filling in the census there was some confusion over surname.  I had a quick look and couldn't see a birth reg for Arthur Ashton in 1888 +/- 2 years (but I was in a rush this morning  ;))
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: L on Friday 08 May 09 13:27 BST (UK)
The birth of Arthur Mossop James was registered June 1988. His mother Sarah Susan James married September 1988 - presumably to Albert James Ashton. Unfortunately the 4th name for that page is missing from FreeBMD. That explains the different surnames.
L
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 08 May 09 14:10 BST (UK)
Thank you L, that makes a bit more sense of things!
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Saturday 09 May 09 06:26 BST (UK)
Sorry again....

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,375453.0.html
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: spof on Saturday 09 May 09 17:59 BST (UK)
The birth of Arthur Mossop James was registered June 1988. His mother Sarah Susan James married September 1988 - presumably to Albert James Ashton. Unfortunately the 4th name for that page is missing from FreeBMD. That explains the different surnames.
L

You're right.

Sarah Susan James Sept 1888 Strand 1b 1023
Albert JAmes AShton Sep 1888 Strand 1b 1023

That page must not be indexed on freBMD yet.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: spof on Saturday 09 May 09 18:16 BST (UK)
In London for the 1901 census

St Georges Hanover Square
13 Cumberland Street
Albert J Ashton, 38, Celarman (Wine Men), b Canterbury Kent
Sarah S Ashton, 38, b Chelsea London
Arthur J Ashton, 13, b Paddington London
 RG13\88\83 Page 32

Possible passenger record -

Arthur Ashton age 25, single, farmer left London for Sydney on  23 Nov 1911 on Aberdeen liner THEMISTOCLES
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Sunday 10 May 09 05:44 BST (UK)
Bit More:

Found the vessel arriving regularly in Australian Waters over several decades.

The arrival of the  Themistocles in Australian Waters, (and the full passenger list) seems to be in the NSW State Archives at their Kingswood (near Sydney) archives offices.  As I understand it, the passenger lists can often provide genie information, including former addresses and parents details as well as details of who and where he intended going to.
Two close dates for the arrival seem to be 1912 Jan 11 THEMISTOCLES;  1912 Jan 22 THEMISTOCLES.

I wonder if any of the other Fromelles Lads were on that 1912 voyage to Australia?

Just Moi 
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: spof on Sunday 10 May 09 08:09 BST (UK)


I wonder if any of the other Fromelles Lads were on that 1912 voyage to Australia?

Just Moi 


Looks like Horace Robinson travelled on the same ship about a year later

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,380063.15.html
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Sunday 10 May 09 08:28 BST (UK)
Hi Spof

I have put a co-incidence on Jack Joyce's thread too, I am starting to think that many of these Lads were attracted to Australia under an Emigration Plan promoted in the UK to help relieve the lack of employment prospects for less educated boys, and to train them as Farm Labourers and the like in the Dominions of NZ, Canada, Sth Africa and Australia.  There is some indication of "Church Land Army" Plans in the Times of London, however I have not yet found much else.  This concept would help explain the apparent lack of family in Australia, and also perhaps offer a further reason for their enlistment. 

Just Moi.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Tuesday 12 May 09 15:13 BST (UK)

Arthur JAMES  Regimental number 689 Place of birth Paddington, London, England ...........Occupation Clerk Address 'Alicia', Railway Street, Epping, Sydney, New South Wales ...

We haven't progressed this Lad and I wonder if the address "Alicia" on Railway Street Epping would be anywhere near The Epping Club, which may be the RSL club?  Not sure, and have geeggle street map etc and could be.  Perhaps any of the Old n' Bold in the sub-branch may have memories of the address or perhaps there may be some archival material?

Just Moi
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Wednesday 13 May 09 07:53 BST (UK)
Bit More,

Possible co-incidence, and noting this on several of the threads.  Hope to have a RChatter based UK who may have access to departure lists and cross-check please against the names listed by our Mod (making it easy for us) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,380152.0.html

The co-incidence at present includes:

Arthur Mossop James arriving Sydney 11 January 1912 on Themistocles 
A H Gardner arriving Sydney 11 January 1912 on Themistocles
And there are others, but on different voyages of ship named Themistocles. 

Still searching,

JM
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Monday 18 May 09 09:18 BST (UK)
Bit More,

Perhaps this may help on his surname and on finding any siblings, note his mother's surname suggests twice married.

Name: JAMES, ARTHUR MOSSOP
Initials: A M
Nationality: Australian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.
Unit Text: 30th Bn.
Age: 28
Date of Death: 20/07/1916
Service No: 689
Additional information: Son of Albert James and of Sarah Susan Ashton (formerly James), of 240, Guinness Buildings, Draycott Avenue, Chelsea, London, England.

Still searching

JM
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Monday 18 May 09 09:44 BST (UK)
Bit More,

Have just noticed that on Australian Red Cross Society Wounded and Missing Enquiry Files (1DRL428-0018-14260) for Arthur Mossop James, there is a slightly different address for his mother.

Her letter dated 27 Nov 1916 was from 227 Guiness Buildings, (not 240) Draycott Ave, Chelsea, Ldn.

JM
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: 1stMyrtle on Tuesday 19 May 09 00:39 BST (UK)
Arthur's mother appears on the 1918 electoral rolls at 240, Guinness Buildings. (The original address for the main entrance of Guinness Buildings was  Draycott Avenue. ) Her husband died in 1917 so possibly that is why she moved from one flat to another.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Saturday 30 May 09 00:52 BST (UK)
Hi All, especially 1stMyrtle,

Welcome to Rootschat 1stMyrtle, and thank you for getting involved in the Fromelles - missing. 

We don't seem to be advancing this search for information on descendants of any family associated with Arthur Mossop JAMES at the present moment. 

Is it likely that his mother's second marriage (Mrs Sarah Susan Ashton) may be a clue?  Not sure, but will check and edit this post with any genie information.

EDIT

We have not yet found any details for the 1917 death of Arthur Mossop James' father (Albert James) nor for a second marriage for Arthur's mother (Mrs Sarah Susan Ashton).  Perhaps these are yet to be transcribed.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: majm on Saturday 30 May 09 01:39 BST (UK)
Bit More,

When Arthur enlisted, he stated he had previous military service, the attached snip would seem to be in his hand, and perhaps needs further follow up.  It has previously been transcribed, but perhaps deserves to be posted here without those earlier transcriptions, so that fresh eyes can view it and offer clues to locating the military records to which it refers.

JM
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - Arthur Mossop James
Post by: Marg OLEARY on Friday 19 June 15 11:41 BST (UK)
Update re Arthur Mossop james

I snet for certificates from UK

His mother was unmarried and no  mention of the father,

Her husband she married afterwards, just in case he happened to be the father, got his cert as well, and he was illegitimate.

This one seems unsolvable

Marg O'Leary
Fromelles Association