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General => Technical Help => Topic started by: Selina on Thursday 07 May 09 20:18 BST (UK)
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I am sure this topic must have come up but I can't see it looking back over the past couple of months.
Has anyone that has upgraded to Internet Explorer 8 from IE 7 had any problems?
Selina
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Hi Selina,
Yes you are right this topic came up about a couple of months ago and yes I had problems. I am back with IE 7.
I will see if I can find the old link.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks KHP
Selina
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Hi Selina
Here it is:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369489.0.html
Cheers
KHP
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Many thanks, I will have a read!
Selina
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I think I will stay with IE7 for now. I am quite happy with it and do not need anything more that I can think of so will wait a while longer.
Thank you for the link KHP.
Selina
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Selina,
I am staying right with IE7 for the time being until at some stage I need a new computer.
Cheers
KHP
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Hello Selina
I had terrific problems with IE8.
I read on a vista site that some machines had an automatic update with a patch ready for IE8 (I was on IE7 no problems).
Once you had this patch the vista forums were full of people like me who had downloaded the patch unknowingly then certain things would not work, like copy and paste, open attachments, send photos and more.
I found I could not uninstall IE8 and had a call to my computer maker. They suggested Firefox.
So I installed Firefox making sure I had set my email settings to the windows mail default as that was what I was using. Then I still had problems, but only after an automatic update.
This time when an error came up there was a direct link to microsoft then to this site - I will paste where you can uninstall IE8, which I did and now everything is working great again.
I am using Firefox with IE7 left in the background. I will never install IE8 again.
Good luck. Am signing off now, but will be back tomorrow if you want to ask anything.
Uninstall IE8 link
http://blogs.technet.com/fixit4me/archive/2009/03/18/uninstall-internet-explorer-8-fix-it-live.aspx
Steven
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Oh yes I forget.
IE8 does not work on a well known family tree site. They said to use Firefox as well.
Steven
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Hi Steven, although you have now signed off.
Very many thanks, I have now decided that I will def stay with IE7 as I am quite happy with it so there is no reason to cause myself possible problems.
I am so pleased I asked!
Selina
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IE8 has a IE7 compatability mode, which can be turned on an off by clicking an icon, and it remembers the setting for that site.
It's not so much a case of "Does IE8 work with xxxx site ?" - its more a case of "Is xxxxx site well enough written to work with the latest browser ?" . Microsoft warned site owners last year that a new browser was coming, and that site owners should check their site coding to ensure that it worked properly. Some site owners didn't heed the warning.
I have IE8, and there is only one site that I visit on a regular basis that has a problem that isn't fixed by the compatability button, and that is Ancestry. This problem isn't major, it just means that entering or editing the place of birth for a person causes a problem when entering the first few characters, but it works if you persist. This is the one and only problem that I have with IE8, and given the great features that it has that are not on IE7, I'm content to live with it, and hope that Ancestry gets its act together soon, and rectifies the problems with its site coding.
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Hello Nick and Selina
Thanks for the replies.
Yes I was aware of the compatibility mode button. But I can assure you - myself and all those other people on the vista forums could do nothing to remove these incompatibility problems. Tweaking security buttons, system restore, etc, etc.
Apart from the copy and paste, email and other issues mentioned earlier with most applications, the biggest problem with Ancestry was not entering search names on the site, but a complete inability to download any images. This was not just with Ancestry either, I couldn‘t download images from other sites too.
I am glad your download of IE8 works for you and you like it. But my experience was quite the opposite. It is of note that Microsoft itself introduced the link to uninstall IE8. (This link came from a pop up after unsuccessful attempts to open attachments in emails) .
There was some talk that Microsoft has released IE8 a little too early and that is why quite a few of us had these problems. My computer maker and Ancestry blame Microsoft and I expect Microsoft would blame the websites.
All I want is for my computer to work properly!!
Selina, I managed to get back to IE7 and everything is still working great. Am keeping Firefox though as I like it better. Apparently you can download any browser you like, but the Microsoft one has to stay in the background and be updated.
Steven
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Well, since I'm using IE8 and I can download images from both Ancestry and other web sites with no problems whatsoever, I think it must be apparent that the problem isn't purely down to IE8 - it must be something else working in conjunction with it.
I think the word Vista [spit] may be something to do with this ? I'm using XP, and will continue to do so until I hear some good reports about Windows 7 ;)
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Hello Nick
Yes, that is why you don't have so many problems, I read this too.
IE8 seems to work better with XP
Not with Vista is seems!!
Great isn't it - not.
Steven
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IE8 seems to work better with XP
Steven
Well, in my case it did not work with my XP as mentioned in the attached thread. I am happy with my IE7 for the time being.
KHP
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I use Vista and downloaded IE8 as soon as it was available and quite honestly, touch wood, I have not experienced a problem so far.
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It looks like some a lucky and some are not!
I will hang on to what works for me for the time being anyway.
Selina
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PC World or Jack Schofield's computer column in the Guardian said there were serious compatability problems with IE8 and XP. Linux systems, including Ubuntu which I am playing with and may well switch my laptop to when Windows 7 comes use Firefox, with no compatability problems, and of course no need to have IE running in the background.Less prone to spam and viruses too!
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IE8 appeared in my Microsoft Windows update. I wasn't intending to
update as I'm quite happy with IE7. I decided to download and install
it though. I must admit I haven't had the slightest problem on my XP
machine.
(touch wood ;D ;D ;D)
Tomkin ;D
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I had the same experience as Tomkin, but in view of what I had read about it in the press as I posted earlier I decided not to risk it, though when I eventually get Windows7 I shall have no alternative.
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hi selina
i upgraded to ie8 and have had no problems. i am using vista.
michael ;D
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decided not to risk it,
Very wise mate.
A lot of these programmes are rushed out and then the public
do the testing and provide feedback to the manufacturers.Probably
saves them a bomb.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
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We've seen that before Tomkin, viz Windows 95, problems corrected in W98, the ME rubbish, but its problems largely corrected in 2000 and XP. Then Vista, and its problems (hopefully) corrected in Windows 7. Had they slowed down development we should have had 3 decent systgems, ie. Windows 98, Windows 2000 and XP,saving a lot of stress sorting out the duff systems, though of course profits would have been down for the suppliers. This is largely why I have looked at Linux systems.
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decided not to risk it,
Very wise mate.
A lot of these programmes are rushed out and then the public
do the testing and provide feedback to the manufacturers.Probably
saves them a bomb.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
Not true. Microsoft test their programs "in house", and then go through several stages of "beta testing" involving volunteers. IE8 went through three stages of public testing (Beta1, Beta2, Final Release candidate) before it was finally released, and that process took several months, and involved millions of people (I was one of them). Microsoft always do this - if you would like to try out the new version of Windows 7 (the successor to Vista), you can download the Final Release Candidate from the Microsoft site.
The fact that many people are using IE8 without a hitch must mean that it's not just down to the software - some other outside influences must be at work here. A simple virus checker or firewall can cause havoc to other programs if it is not correctly set up.
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It sounds by that then Nick, that many of the of the anti virus and malware programs are badly written.
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I think my views on some AV programs are already quite well known, so let's not go there ;)
However, it's quite possible to screw up any operating system with a bit of tinkering, so to condemn any piece of software based on a few user experiences isn't really very productive. Computers are very complicated machines, and "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" ;)
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Not true.
Yer, right!!!! That's why we keep downloading updates
to rectify flaws.
That's why P.C. games won't play without extensive patches. etc. etc.
I could go on but bacon butties are requiring my urgent attention.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Not true. Microsoft test their programs "in house"
The first update to IE8 ;D ;D ;D
Probably the first of many ::) ::) ::) ::)
Download size: 500 KB , less than 1 minute
This Compatibility View List update helps make Web sites that are designed for older browsers look better in Internet Explorer 8. When users install Internet Explorer 8, they will be given a choice about opting-in to a list of sites that should be displayed in Compatibility View. After you install this item, you may have to restart Internet Explorer Details...
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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This is a list of sites which need the compatability view switched on, for use with the program. It is not a program patch or update. If web site owners wrote their code correctly, there would be no need for this list at all.
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It is not a program patch or update
I wonder why Microsoft call it an Update? ??? ??? ??? ???
Confusing or what?. ;D ;D ;D
When is an update not an update?
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
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If web site owners wrote their code correctly, there would be no need for this list at all.
Rubbish! Web site owners have been forced to write 'incorrect' code for years to make their pages render correctly in Microsoft's various versions of IE.
Microsoft has, until now, used their own version of html coding and ignored the web standards which other browsers have tried to follow - not perfectly, but more closely. Now that MS has had to come to the party because Opera, Firefox, etc. are taking their customers away, they face the massive task of asking webpage writers to stop writing for IE (compatibility mode), and write proper web standard code instead.
Yes, I am a Mac user, and yes I do write (some) html code, but don't try to imply that it's all the web site owners/writer's fault.
Koromo
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IE8 fully passes the Acid2 Test (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html)
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IE8 fully passes the Acid2 Test (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html)
Yes, it does :) (better late than never)
K.
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IE8 fully passes the Acid2 Test (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html)
Yes, it does :) (better late than never)
K.
Hardly late...... IE8 was the first IE to be specifically written to pass that test - IE7 doesn't, and wasn't written to.
Still, it means that a web site that doesn't display properly with IE8 is probably at fault itself.
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I've used IE7 for years without a problem.
Now I'm having problems viewing web sites
with IE8.
Still, it means that a web site that doesn't display properly with IE8 is probably at fault itself.
Am I worried? Of course not! It's obviously somebody else's fault.
Tomkin.
(Think I'll switch to firefox.)
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i am following this thread? with great interest. could some of you experts please tell me what is "ubuntu" linux and i was under the impression that firefox was a firewall.
looking forward to reading your replies.
michael
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Ubuntu is a variant of Linux open-source code. Firefox is an open-source web browser.
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thanks nick. still too technical for me as a novice but at least i know a little bit more. cheers
michael
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i am following this thread? with great interest. could some of you experts please tell me what is "ubuntu" linux and i was under the impression that firefox was a firewall.
looking forward to reading your replies.
michael
Ubuntu Linux is a variant of Linux an alternative operating system to Windows.
Ubuntu is a community developed, Linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers. It contains all the applications you need - a web browser, presentation, document and spreadsheet software, instant messaging and much more.
from http://www.ubuntu.com/
Firefox as has been said is an alternative to Internet Explorer as a web browser.
http://www.mozilla-europe.org/en/firefox/
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thank you falkyrn. will look at those sites when i have time.
michael
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i have looked at those sites. i always thought that there was only microsoft and internet explorer.
can anyone tell me the benefits of going on to these sites. ???
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i dont know what happened there but all i was doing was bringing down the curser to another line and it sent itself.
it is good reading different persons opinions
thank you
michael
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i have looked at those sites. i always thought that there was only microsoft and internet explorer.
can anyone tell me the benefits of going on to these sites. ???
There are many advantages and disadvantages about changing your operating system - Linux in many of the variants is considered by some to be a steep learning curve although some of the variants do make the transfer relatively easy.
As to the alternatives to Internet explorer Firefox is one alternative
Chrome from Google is another
Safari from Apple
Opera a small independent is another
have a read at http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/why.html
Why you may wish to change browser - is, I believe now, purely a matter of personal preference although some do offer slight advantages over the others (Chrome is currently considered to be the fastest although a new version of Firefox, due soon, is said to match it).
In the past many of the "alternative" browsers were the first to bring innovations to the users - e.g. tabbed browsing and they also adhered more to the Internet standards as set down (until IE8 Microsoft ignored those standards)
You can quite safely download and run one of the alternative browsers on you computer without touching your installed version of Internet explorer
PS there are also alternative email programs to the Microsoft offerings usually installed as standard.
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thanks for the information falkyrn. will read that later on today.
cheers
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Hi Gooddog,
If you are not familiar with computers, If you
are a total novice, I would strongly recommend that you leave
well alone. If you wish to learn more, then see if there are any
computer courses in your area,run by the local Education Authority.
By all means ask questions,read computer magazines etc. but the
Golden rule is , "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Another is, "If I don't
know what I'm doing,leave well alone until such time that I do".
I assume that that you have purchased a ready made computer which
is fitted with a standard operating system. Why would you consider changing
it without a very good reason?. ???
Tomkin :D :D :D
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hi tomkin.
i have a fairly good grasp of computers but i am definitely not up to the standard of you people. i have no intentions of switching from my ie.
it was reading you gentlemen saying about ubuntu etc. which made me want to know what these systems were. two i am curious of . one is cclean, what is it.
another is something nick mensioned was some kind of spywear, it began with an a. nick said it only cost a few pounds. i pay just under £40.
by asking these questions i am learning from your replies. i think this is a wonderful site and enjoy reading the replies to different questions in all topics.
to all who have taken the time to reply to my questions thank you very much.
thank you tomkin for mensioning the the local centers. i did that when i retired and enjoyed getting my diplomas. :) :)
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Hi gooddog,
Click on this link:-http://www.computeractive.co.uk/
Type the word into the search facility and press go.
You will then have more information than you will ever
need. just click on the articles.
Also look on the menu bar such as downloads. You will find more
programmes than you will ever need etc. Personally I always go
for the "Freebies" ;D ;D ;D ;D
Please always take great care with computer stuff. They can seriously
damaged your pocket and your mental health. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tomkin. :D :D
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The link didn't seem to work, let's try again.
see what I mean about damaging your mental health. ;D ;D
Tomkin
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/
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P.S.
Also make good use of the Jargon Buster on the right.
Just click on a letter for a list of all the computer jargon
beginning with that letter and an explanation.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
All this for free. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Can't be bad..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I have had little formal training using computers, and I expect it shows: As others have said, the big attraction about using a Linux system is that it's free, and that as the user base is smaller it attracts much less spam, viruses and other trash. But it does take a lot of learning. If you wanted to go for it from scratch, then the way might be to buy a net book computer running a Linux system and use it in tandem with the Windows system which came preinstalled on your present computer, then when you are comfortable with both system make a decision and switch to the one that suits you best.
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it was reading you gentlemen saying about ubuntu etc. which made me want to know what these systems were. two i am curious of . one is cclean, what is it.
Adaware from Lavasoft is a free utility for clearing away some minor spyware utilities and tracking cookies
http://www.lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php
CCleaner - is a utility for clearing away unwanted debris from your system and can help get rid of some malware
http://www.ccleaner.com/download
Another is Spybot S & D (search & destroy) all three are free to download and use and are useful tools in any armoury to protect your system - that said, misuse of them, like many programs, can screw up your system.
http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html
As regards security software there are many alternatives from free (AVG and Avast are 2 of the most popular Anti Virus programs) to the commercial alternatives. The commercial offerings generally combine several functions (Anti Virus and firewall) and it often pays to shop around to get the best deal on the same piece of software.
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I have had little formal training using computers, and I expect it shows: As others have said, the big attraction about using a Linux system is that it's free, and that as the user base is smaller it attracts much less spam, viruses and other trash.
You keep saying that, and whilst it may have been true 5 years ago, it certainly isn't now. In fact there are several virus checkers available for Linux. Linux is widely installed on web servers - this forum is run on a Linux-based server.
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The whole point about using Linux is that it cannot be infected. You do not need anti-virus software or anti-spyware or any of the other stuff used by Windows to try and make it secure.
The main reason why Windows is so vulnerable is because users log on using a login with Admin privileges which allows malware to be downloaded and installed. Most of this malware is written for a Windows OS, so if it is downloaded to Linux then it can't actually run on there. Linux does have a free firewall called Shorewall available but it is such a secure system that it really doesn't need to have a firewall.
They important thing is not to connect to the Internet using an account that has Admin (or root) privileges. That automatically protects you from malware being launched and thus infecting your system.
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The whole point about using Linux is that it cannot be infected. You do not need anti-virus software or anti-spyware or any of the other stuff used by Windows to try and make it secure.
I really think that you ought to read up about the Linux Lupper Worm (http://antivirus.about.com/od/virusdescriptions/a/linuxlupper.htm), the Linux Lion Worm (http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa032301a.htm), the Virus.Linux.Diesel.962 (http://antivirus.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=antivirus&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.viruslist.com%2Feng%2Fviruslist.asp%3Fid%3D3994%26key%3D00001000050000200004%26f_page%3D0) virus, the Virus.Linux.Vit.4096 (http://antivirus.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=antivirus&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.viruslist.com%2Feng%2Fviruslist.asp%3Fid%3D3135%26key%3D00001000050000200003%26f_page%3D0) virus, the Ramen virus (http://antivirus.about.com/library/virusinfo/blramen.htm) and the Winux virus (http://antivirus.about.com/library/weekly/aa032801a.htm) ! ::) Although the last one has never been seen in the wild, it is proof that it's possible to write code that will infect both Windows and Linux systems.
They important thing is not to connect to the Internet using an account that has Admin (or root) privileges. That automatically protects you from malware being launched and thus infecting your system.
Are you saying that if I sent you an email with a virus-infected or hostile attachment, that you would not be able to open it if you don't have Admin priviledges ?
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I'm not remotely worried about picking up a virus using Linux and to be honest I have never met anyone who ever had their security compromised.
Many of these so-called threats to Linux seem to be theoretical:
Considered a proof-of-concept virus, it has not been found in-the-wild. As such, it is not posing a threat to users
I've never heard of a Linux server being brought down by a virus.
If you try to open an attachment on a Linux system using something like Thunderbird and that attachment was an executable file, then you would need to be a superuser to run the file.
On a Windows system then it depends on the mail client. Some will not let you open an attachment or will query it and say that it is a security risk.
The point about Admin privileges on a Windows system is what happens when you are browsing and the likely consequences of accidentally downloading and installing - something like a trojan, which is what happens to 100's of users every day.
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Many of these so-called threats to Linux seem to be theoretical:
Err, no - one of them was written to prove that it was possible to write code that would affect two different OS's, and I made that clear in my post. All the other viruses I posted have been found in the wild, and many of them have been around for a long time (one of them since 2001).
Open-source applications can be both a blessing and a curse. People who want to hack into Windows have to crack the code first, because Windows is not open-source. Just recently two programmers writing open-source code for Firefox attachments fell out with each other, because one had admitted writing malicious code which would knock out features in his competitor's attachment. This to my mind is the greatest security threat in Firefox.
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Thanks for your support Downside, Nick quotes 6 viruses by name, one of which "has never been seen in the wild". When I finished work over 13 years ago, there were already many thousands of viruses let loose on windows. I have also run Firefox browser, not it has to be admitted very often, but I( have never had a virus.
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How do you know you've never had a virus ?
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hi falkyrn
i know i posted a reply to your letter re the questions i asked, IE cclean etc. it was just to tell you that the spybot s&d say there is a problem. it seems that IE has an immunization feature of spybot s&d causes slow startup.
have just gone back to the webpage and it is IE8 which has the problem.
michael
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If I had had a virus Nick, then surely it would have caused something to happen or fail when I was using the Ubuntu on my machine. If it didn't what point was there in writing it?
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Why is everyone convinced that a virus causes something nasty to happen ?
There are two main reasons why people put viruses on computers.....
1. To turn the PC into a "bot", to spread spam, or to create denial of service attacks.
2. To spy on someone's personal details, and to log keystrokes, and to transparently transmit this information back to interested parties.
The very last thing they want to do is to do anything which would betray their presence, because they want their virus to continue doing its work for as long as possible. It's a total urban myth that people who create and spread computer viruses do it to create havoc or cause computers to crash. The truth is the total opposite.
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That makes sense Nick, but it seems that not all virus writers are that sensible if misguided.
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hi falkyrn
i know i posted a reply to your letter re the questions i asked, IE cclean etc. it was just to tell you that the spybot s&d say there is a problem. it seems that IE has an immunization feature of spybot s&d causes slow startup.
have just gone back to the webpage and it is IE8 which has the problem.
michael
Yes I've just seen that - Unfortunately I missed that as I use Firefox and Chrome as my primary browsers and neither are affected by the problem.
It would appear that safer networking, the creators of Spybot S&D are working on a solution so fingers crossed it won't be that long.
In the meantime it may be more beneficial to uninstall S&D.
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hi falkyrn
i did not install the s&d programme. i only opened it to see what it was like, as i had asked what those 3 names meant.
re suspecious emails. i have just had one from a " john "who has something to tell you. as i never open any email which i dont know i deleted it. also windows had highlighted it in red in my inbox. even though my antivirus was running in the background i didn't take the chance
michael :)
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Always better to be safe than sorry (complacency is the greatest enemy of any system).
Re S&D, Adaware and CCleaner they are useful tools to run as part of a security/cleanup routine - for some this is a daily task. For others once a week and some once a month - the choice is yours and should be one that fits in with your way of working.
However along with a good backup regime a regular security sweep does no harm and is considered, by many, a good working practice.
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i agree with you falkyrn. some people never run a spyware or a defrag. i have my pc to run a defrag every week and my spyware daily.
one person i know had never run a defrag until i showed him how and he was surprised at how well his pc ran afterwards. he now does it reguraly.
michael
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I have downloaded (and paid for) a program Auslogic which does defrags and the whole works very quickly. Certainly given this system a boost!
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Anyone who thinks that trojan writers and deployers do it to cause havoc should take a look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8039207.stm) ......
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Hi Nick
i saw a programme on tv about two years ago about hacking into another persons pc. two men were sat facing each other with a 3 foot high partition between them.
everything the first person typed the other one typed word for word. they were showing you how easy it is to be a victim of a hacker.
needless to say i don't keep any banking etc. details on my pc. too risky.
cheers
Michael
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hi all
i have just had an email from my spyware company. it is about a Trojan alert for windows 7 & f.i.f.a. World Cup
tm. thousands of Win. 7 builds downloaded on Torrent & p2p sharing sites contain a malicious Trojan designed to target your personal information and has potential to cause system failure and result in identity theft or financial loss for the end user. phishing attacks are expected to rise by 40% more than at the last World Cup.
regards
Michael :)
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Thanks for the warning Michael.
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Getting back to the original topic, I just read in another forum that the use of Spybot Search & Destroy can have some debilatating effects on Internet Explorer 8.
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Getting back to the original topic, I just read in another forum that the use of Spybot Search & Destroy can have some debilatating effects on Internet Explorer 8.
Already discussed on this very thread
Quote from: GOODDOG on 15-05-2009, 11:24:18
hi falkyrn
i know i posted a reply to your letter re the questions i asked, IE cclean etc. it was just to tell you that the spybot s&d say there is a problem. it seems that IE has an immunization feature of spybot s&d causes slow startup.
have just gone back to the webpage and it is IE8 which has the problem.
michael
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Sorry, even re-reading that doesn't make it that clear that Spybot S & D can cause very slow operation of IE8, only slow startup. Spybot will cause IE8 to run slow every time a new tab is opened.
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So taking all that into account, I'm staying with IE7 until the bugs are ironed out.
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Has anyone had trouble viewing census images on Ancestry with IE8?
After "upgrading" to IE8, Ancestry tells you to install the advanced viewer - again ::) then doesn't work!
Is it just me and Vista?
not too worried as Firefox works brilliantly... just curious
Jenny
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I have just recently installed IE8 and have had no problems at all, I also use Vista as my OS. Infact I had lots more trouble with IE7 with regards to downloading images and looking at archived messages on this site. Maybe I'm just lucky at the moment and it will all go into meltdown later.
Mike
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Has anyone had trouble viewing census images on Ancestry with IE8?
After "upgrading" to IE8, Ancestry tells you to install the advanced viewer - again ::) then doesn't work!
Is it just me and Vista?
not too worried as Firefox works brilliantly... just curious
Jenny
No problems viewing Advanced Ancestry images here with IE8, Jenny, but I'm using Windows XP SP3, not Vista :)
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Just downloaded IE8.
Was on my machine for 5 minutes, then promptly removed.
Running on XP Pro with SP3.
My machine doesn't like it one bit, machine just about stops dead.
And thats with 2gig ram into a 3.2Mhz Intel processor.
At the moment I think it's back to the drawing board Microsoft.
Brian
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I received a message last week saying that one of our CDs would not run automatically on Vista (i.e. it would not open the default web browser to display its contents).
I tested the CD on our Vista machine and it was fine - but then Windows Update installed IE8 amongst other updates and guess what, the CD would not run automatically. Reverting to IE7 cured the problem. It turned out that the customer has IE8 installed as default browser.
I have been trying to obtain a solution fom Microsoft for over a week now but haven't (so far) got any further than being told to ring a premium rate support line. I'm not inclined to pay such charges when the problem is one caused by a bug in Microsoft software.
Graham
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That problem is known by Microsoft, and it appears to be connected with other 3rd-party software.
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It's not to do with IE's default autorun settings being changed 'cos of
potential threats such as the Conficker worm, is it?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/28/microsoft_windows_retires_autorun/
:)
K.
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It's not to do with IE's default autorun settings being changed 'cos of
potential threats such as the Conficker worm, is it?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/28/microsoft_windows_retires_autorun/
:)
K.
No. That is something slightly different. In our case there is a specific instruction to open the default browser, not to open the options window.
That problem is known by Microsoft, and it appears to be connected with other 3rd-party software.
Forgive me, Nick, but if that problem is known to Microsoft then why have they not been able to tell me so in plain language (including reason(s) and solution(s))?
The only change to the system between working and not working was the installation of IE8. Removal of IE8 solves the problem. The problem may have something to do with the way in which IE8 interacts with other software but it has to arise from the differences between IE8 and IE7.
Back in the day we tested software thoroughly with properly structured test data. If Microsoft undertook proper testing, rather than just field trials, then they should have identified and cured the problem.
Graham
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That seems to be typical of Microsoft; I believe there are at least 3 languages in common use; English English, American English, and Microsoft American, which bears some resemblence to American English, but only coincidentally.
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That seems to be typical of Microsoft; I believe there are at least 3 languages in common use; English English, American English, and Microsoft American, which bears some resemblence to American English, but only coincidentally.
Unfortunately, Roger, it's typical of too many software companies these days. They just let a number of volunteers use their partly developed software for a while in the hopes that the most common bugs can be sorted out before the software is released to the world at large.
Graham
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Sound like MS again, had they delayed Windows 95 until they released Windows 98 they would have had one good workable system, likewise Vista, which I have never taken up shall go for W7 when it comes.
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Forgive me, Nick, but if that problem is known to Microsoft then why have they not been able to tell me so in plain language (including reason(s) and solution(s))?
Maybe because there is no solution yet ? As I said before, third party software is suspected. I have IE8, and my CD/DVD auto-run works fine, but I may not have software resident on my PC that you have on yours.
Unfortunately, Roger, it's typical of too many software companies these days. They just let a number of volunteers use their partly developed software for a while in the hopes that the most common bugs can be sorted out before the software is released to the world at large.
You've just been moaning about auto-run not working on your computer, but it works fine on mine. How do you suggest that Microsoft tests its software out on millions of different PC configurations, and on millions of different permutations of hardware, without doing beta-testing with volunteers ? Even then some bugs get through.
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Forgive me, Nick, but if that problem is known to Microsoft then why have they not been able to tell me so in plain language (including reason(s) and solution(s))?
Maybe because there is no solution yet ? As I said before, third party software is suspected. I have IE8, and my CD/DVD auto-run works fine, but I may not have software resident on my PC that you have on yours.
I did mention reason as well as solution. All I have had from Microsoft is advice to ring a premium rate number. They have not said anything about knowing about the problem.
I'm interested though. Does Autorun work with all programs (including IE8) or just some (such as Acrobat Reader)?
Unfortunately, Roger, it's typical of too many software companies these days. They just let a number of volunteers use their partly developed software for a while in the hopes that the most common bugs can be sorted out before the software is released to the world at large.
You've just been moaning about auto-run not working on your computer, but it works fine on mine. How do you suggest that Microsoft tests its software out on millions of different PC configurations, and on millions of different permutations of hardware, without doing beta-testing with volunteers ? Even then some bugs get through.
I have to take issue there. So called "beta testing" is not testing. Proper testing requires that the input data, action of the software on the data and expected result are all known.
Hardware and software permutations are irrelevant because the individual software instructions are acting on a definable number of variables and it matters not how those variables are generated. A common example is validating a date. It matters not one jot whether the date on a particular computer is correct, all that matters is whether it is a valid date or not.
A proper test dataset will be built to include the appropriate set of variables - but that takes money and effort which too many companies are loath to expend.
There is absolutely no way in which the input data is known in "beta testing". Therefore, the expected result cannot be known.
Companies which use "beta testing" have no way of knowing whether (e.g.) one factor is tested a thousand times or a thousand factors are tested once. As I said previously, all they can do is hope that the most common bugs can be sorted out before the software is released to the world at large.
Graham
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I have one computer on which I use Firefox and every time I try to view a image on Ancestry it wants the advanced viewer installed again, install it and it hangs.
I don't have that happen with firefox on my other computers.
Has anyone had trouble viewing census images on Ancestry with IE8?
After "upgrading" to IE8, Ancestry tells you to install the advanced viewer - again ::) then doesn't work!
Is it just me and Vista?
not too worried as Firefox works brilliantly... just curious
Jenny
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I believe that IE8 was specially developed for Vista. Is this likely to mean that when Windows 7 is generally available there are likely to be problems running IE8 with it?
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I believe that IE8 was specially developed for Vista. Is this likely to mean that when Windows 7 is generally available there are likely to be problems running IE8 with it?
No, W7 runs from a very similar core to Vista and there should be no problems.
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That's a relief as I intend to go for it and hopefully make a clean start.
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I did mention reason as well as solution. All I have had from Microsoft is advice to ring a premium rate number. They have not said anything about knowing about the problem.
I'm interested though. Does Autorun work with all programs (including IE8) or just some (such as Acrobat Reader)?
Autorun works on all programs on my PC. There is no change from IE6 and IE7. As for keeping up to date with software bugs, "Google is your friend" :)
I have to take issue there. So called "beta testing" is not testing. Proper testing requires that the input data, action of the software on the data and expected result are all known.
Hardware and software permutations are irrelevant because the individual software instructions are acting on a definable number of variables and it matters not how those variables are generated.....
Rubbish ! Your auto-run problem could well be a driver problem with your CD drive. If things were as clear-cut as you insist they are, then problems seen by one person would be seen by all, and from people's reported experiences, this is clearly not the case. I remember when writable CD's first came on to the market, and I couldn't make up my mind which CD writer program was the best, so I loaded three different programs, and I couldn't work out why the programs suddenly didn't work any more, and then the penny dropped that it was the program drivers conflicting with each other. Similarly, Spybot Search & Destroy causes slow opening of tabs in IE8 because it fills IE8's blocked site list with hundreds if not thousands of entries.
One of the problems with Windows is that your system in time gets bogged down with dozens of programs which are memory-resident, but you hardly ever use them. It's even worse with Vista, apparently, because more stuff gets pre-loaded for faster program loading. These pre-loaded features and memory-resident programs can cause havoc when they interact with each other.
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I believe that IE8 was specially developed for Vista. Is this likely to mean that when Windows 7 is generally available there are likely to be problems running IE8 with it?
No, W7 runs from a very similar core to Vista and there should be no problems.
Unless the version of Windows 7 RC didn't come from a reputable source.......
"A Trojan buried within counterfeit copies of Windows 7 RC was used to build a botnet of compromised PCs" (The Register) (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/13/pirate_win_7_botnet/)
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Since computers are slowed down by a build up of little used material is it then a good idea as some advocate to have a complete format and reinstallation done periodically, say annually?
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Autorun works on all programs on my PC. There is no change from IE6 and IE7. As for keeping up to date with software bugs, "Google is your friend" :)
Thank you for that. The bug could well be to do with settings of flags then. Still strange, if it is though, that Microsoft could not tell me how to correct it.
Rubbish ! Your auto-run problem could well be a driver problem with your CD drive. If things were as clear-cut as you insist they are, then problems seen by one person would be seen by all, and from people's reported experiences, this is clearly not the case. I remember when writable CD's first came on to the market, and I couldn't make up my mind which CD writer program was the best, so I loaded three different programs, and I couldn't work out why the programs suddenly didn't work any more, and then the penny dropped that it was the program drivers conflicting with each other. Similarly, Spybot Search & Destroy causes slow opening of tabs in IE8 because it fills IE8's blocked site list with hundreds if not thousands of entries.
I hardly think a driver problem would manifest itself by conflicting with a web browser. In this case the web browser has nothing to do with the CD drive other than it is reading a file from the CD. Your experience with the different pieces of CD writer software will have been due to the fact that you had several software programs trying to control the same hardware. Similar things occurred with early Twain drivers linked to scanners.
I wouldn't comment on Spybot because I don't use it - good job from what you say.
One of the problems with Windows is that your system in time gets bogged down with dozens of programs which are memory-resident, but you hardly ever use them. It's even worse with Vista, apparently, because more stuff gets pre-loaded for faster program loading. These pre-loaded features and memory-resident programs can cause havoc when they interact with each other.
I wouldn't argue with that because I've been well aware of Microsoft OS deficiencies since the days of MS-DOS. Doesn't say much for Microsoft if they knowingly publish a product which is so susceptible to such "havoc" does it?
The last time I actually remember such problems was back in the 1970s with DOS for the IBM 360, which didn't protect the machine's main memory properly. IBM overcame that by partitioning. If it worked then why not now?
However, in this case, the Vista machine is one that is used for backup in the main so does not have a large number of programs loaded to cause such problems.
The problem in detail is this. We are running genealogy CDs containing scanned images of out-of-copyright books. The images are stored on the CDs as .gif files and displayed in the user's default web browser using basic HTML code so that they work in any browser on any OS from Windows 3.1 onwards.
The CDs contain the autorun.exe program and a file called autorun.inf which contains the following simple code:
[autorun]
open=autorun.exe intro.htm
Under a Windows OS where Autoplay is enabled this normally means that the user's default browser is opened when the CD is inserted into the drive and displays the intro.htm file.
The problem we have on the Vista machine in question is:
1) Default browser is IE7; Opera browser is also installed on the machine; IE7 is opened when the CD is inserted in the drive.
2) Windows update installs IE8; IE8 does not open when CD is inserted into the drive; IE8 does open when the intro.htm file is double clicked in Windows Explorer (proving that the .htm file type is associated with IE8)
3) Default browser is reset to Opera; Opera is opened when the CD is inserted in the drive.
4) Default browser is reset back to IE8; IE8 does not open when the CD is inserted in the drive.
5) IE8 is uninstalled which reverts to IE7 as default browser; IE7 is opened when the CD is inserted in the drive.
Conclusion: IE8 works differently with autorun.exe from the way that other browsers work with the program.
That may be a deliberate act on the part of Microsoft - but if it is they should be able to explain why and how to overcome the problem.
If it is not a deliberate act then it is a bug and Microsoft should either provide a solution or admit that they do not have a solution.
The fact that autorun.exe opens IE8 correctly on your machine points to the problem being caused by:
1) flags being set to the wrong values (in which case Microsoft should be able to say what flag settings are required)
2) something random which has not been picked up in testing (which points to an inadequate testing regime being used).
Either way we come back to the fact that Microsoft have not responded appropriately.
Graham
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In IE8 the default setting is that Autorun of "Active Content"from CD is disabled
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Redroger - I was going to say - you can bet your life! However I think it's a case of wait and see as Nick has already pointed out that most users' systems are particular to them and may result in different actions or lack of.
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In IE8 the default setting is that Autorun of "Active Content"from CD is disabled
First thing I looked for, well before contacting Microsoft. Unfortunately, enabling active content did not work.
The really annoying thing isn't that something has changed. I can live with the fact that software publishers have the right to change how their software works. When that happens, though, the publisher should be able to provide documentation detailing the change. It is where (in the case of a deliberate change) they don't do that or (in the case of a bug) they don't admit to the problem that I find it really annoying.
I am still awaiting further contact from Microsoft but I bet I end up wasting time delving into the OS to find a solution myself. Thought those days had ended when I gave up programming :(
Graham
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Doesn't say much for Microsoft if they knowingly publish a product which is so susceptible to such "havoc" does it?
Since Windows is only a platform on which you can run whatever program you want, I don't see how you can prevent it being susceptible (although anti-malware and anti-virus programs can help).
Even in the days of MS-DOS, it was very easy to write a batch file which could erase whole hard drives when run. Just think what you can do when you have about 60-odd processes running (and that's only the ones that Windows Manager reports !) ::)
Because Windows runs so transparently, I think we all tend to forget (or not notice) all the things going on in the background to make it all possible.
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Since computers are slowed down by a build up of little used material is it then a good idea as some advocate to have a complete format and reinstallation done periodically, say annually?
I've yet to have a version of Windows that didn't make itself completely unusable within 2 years, and require installation from scratch ! :)
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Since Windows is only a platform on which you can run whatever program you want, I don't see how you can prevent it being susceptible (although anti-malware and anti-virus programs can help).
Even in the days of MS-DOS, it was very easy to write a batch file which could erase whole hard drives when run. Just think what you can do when you have about 60-odd processes running (and that's only the ones that Windows Manager reports !) ::)
Because Windows runs so transparently, I think we all tend to forget (or not notice) all the things going on in the background to make it all possible.
Taking the second point first. The first program I came across which might have been classed as a computer virus was in 1970 and ran on either an IBM 1620 or an ICL 1900 - can't remember which after all this time, the polytechnic concerned had both machines.
Windows, like any operating system, is a bit more than a platform. It is the software which provides standard interfaces to the nuts and bolts of the hardware - which saves application software publishers having to write similar code over and over again (with all the attendant scope for malfunction which that implies).
The extent to which the OS publisher maintains control of devices such as disk drives, printers etc depends on the specification of the OS. Such control is implemented to a much lesser extent these days than in previous years (partly because of the growth in the number of hardware manufacturing companies) but it is defined by particular standards which are part of the OS specification. In the same way, the extent to which susceptability is guarded against depends on the specification of the software.
In all cases the robustness of the OS depends on the extent to which the code is tested to ensure that it meets the specification.
Similar standards apply to application software writers - if they are doing the job properly then they must test their software against the specification. That has always been easier for the publishers of the OS than for other companies of course, simply because they have defined the interfaces.
Given that Microsoft are publishers of both Windows Vista and IE8 they should be able to answer the simple question I posed to them.
Graham
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Since computers are slowed down by a build up of little used material is it then a good idea as some advocate to have a complete format and reinstallation done periodically, say annually?
I've yet to have a version of Windows that didn't make itself completely unusable within 2 years, and require installation from scratch ! :)
Interesting. I bought the machine I am using at the moment on 8th January 2006. Because of the nature of the tasks I use it for I have a large number of application programs installed. I also have rather more peripheral devicess installed than a typical home user would.
I have kept the OS (Windows XP) up to date and have undertaken regular, structured, housekeeping, but have never had to install from scratch.
Graham
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I bought this machine in April 2005, Acer Aspire 1362 Laptop, though it has slowed down, and I had to have a new Hard disk after I dropped it on the stairs at our old house it has never been completely unusuable, though now it is beginning to get to the stage of my previous machine, purchased 1997, and I disposed of it in 2005 since there were hardly any programs that I could run on it.This left me some ancient FH programs which I run in this in W98 using Virtual PC on XP Pro.
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The number of readings of this post (in excess of 1700) suggests to me that many people are concerned about IE8.
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The number of readings of this post (in excess of 1700) suggests to me that many people are concerned about IE8.
You could well be right Roger.
I've just been trying some more experiments on the Vista machine.
1. Started with IE7 as the default browser and active content from CDs allowed; IE7 opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
2. Reset the "active content from CDs" flag; IE7 still opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
3. Reset default browser to Opera; Opera was opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
4. Reset default browser back to IE7 with "active content from CDs" allowed; IE7 opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
5. Installed IE8 and made sure that "active content from CDs" allowed; when the CD was inserted in the drive IE8 started to open but then closed without displaying the intro.htm file.
6. Opened Windows Explorer and double clicked the intro.htm file; IE8 opened correctly.
7. Closed IE8; double clicked autorun.exe in Windows Explorer; IE8 started to open but then closed without displaying the intro.htm file.
8. Tried to open autorun.exe by using the Start/Run route; IE8 started to open but then closed without displaying the intro.htm file.
9. Opened IE8 from the Taskbar and tried to open intro.htm from the CD using the File menu; IE8 would not open the file; tried to open another .htm file from the CD using the File menu; IE8 would not open the file.
10. Reset default browser to Opera; Opera was opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
11. Reset default browser to IE8 and made sure that "active content from CDs" allowed; when the CD was inserted in the drive IE8 started to open but then closed without displaying the intro.htm file.
12. Uninstalled IE8, thus reverting to IE7 as default browser; IE7 opened when the CD was inserted in the drive.
13. Closed IE7 then opened it again from the Taskbar; tried to open intro.htm from the CD using the File menu; IE7 opened the file after insising on doing so in a separate window for security reasons.
Conclusion: More or less as before. IE8 works differently with autorun.exe (and, apparently, other files on CDs) from the way that other browsers work with the program.
It's disconcerting that IE8 should start and then stop without displaying some sort of error or warning message. Either IE8 or the OS (Vista) is obviously trapping what it considers is an abnormal condition. In those circumstances a message to the user should always be displayed.
Graham
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anything in the Events Log ?
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anything in the Events Log ?
Absolutely nothing under Internet Explorer.
Several messages in other logs but nothing which appears to be relevant to the problem.
Graham
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Have you tried IE8 on an XP machine to see if there was any difference in the program behaviour.
I have just run an Autorun CD on Vista with IE8 set as default - it ran and opened in the browser with no problems.
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Further to above I did a little checking and tried to replicate the problem
The only way I could do this was either by turning off Active content within IE8 or in Vista if you go to "Default programs" and then "Change Autoplay settings" there is a setting "Software and games" this has to be set to Install or run program otherwise the autorun feature will not kick in regardless of the IE8 settings.
In theory this should also apply to IE7 but it is possible that some interaction in the coding between IE8 and Vista changes the flag settings internally.
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Have you tried IE8 on an XP machine to see if there was any difference in the program behaviour.
I have just run an Autorun CD on Vista with IE8 set as default - it ran and opened in the browser with no problems.
Thanks for your help.
I haven't tried IE8 on an XP machine - on the grounds that if it ain't broke don't fix it :) Having seen the comments of some people who have, as a result of Google searches, then I have no intention of doing so :)
The original install of IE8 on the Vista machine came about as a result of Windows Update including it (which hasn't happened with XP on this machine).
Further to above I did a little checking and tried to replicate the problem
The only way I could do this was either by turning off Active content within IE8 or in Vista if you go to "Default programs" and then "Change Autoplay settings" there is a setting "Software and games" this has to be set to Install or run program otherwise the autorun feature will not kick in regardless of the IE8 settings.
In theory this should also apply to IE7 but it is possible that some interaction in the coding between IE8 and Vista changes the flag settings internally.
I thought about the Autoplay settings and did make sure that the one for "Software and games" was set to "Install or run program".
It has to be something to do with the settings but, given that there are a finite number of setting combinations, that is something which Microsoft should have tested.
I agree with you that the settings should apply to IE7 as well and that is another area where Microsoft could give assistance. They must know what the differences between IE8 and IE7 are, even if they haven't bothered to run full tests, so should be able to point to areas to investigate.
Graham
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It's possible that it could be deliberate. Read this (http://www.h-online.com/security/Windows-7-AutoRun-offers-no-chance-to-worms--/news/113176)
OK, this applies to Windows 7, but they could have retrospectively applied it to Vista. Microsoft say that the change shouldn't affect CD and DVD drives, but maybe they've got it wrong ?
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It's possible that it could be deliberate. Read this (http://www.h-online.com/security/Windows-7-AutoRun-offers-no-chance-to-worms--/news/113176)
OK, this applies to Windows 7, but they could have retrospectively applied it to Vista. Microsoft say that the change shouldn't affect CD and DVD drives, but maybe they've got it wrong ?
Thanks.
I had a look at that before contacting Microsoft. However, as I mentioned when Koromo suggested it the other day, that appears to be slightly different - as you say it shouldn't affect CD/DVD drives.
Since posting earlier this morning I've tried IE8 again, making sure - even though I'm certain I did yesterday :) - that the "active content" and "Install or run program" flags were set appropriately. Result, no different - so went back to IE7 :).
I rekon I've now wasted enough time on this. So, unless Microsoft come back to me with any sensible response (as opposed to suggesting I ring their costly support line) I'll leave it as it is.
Graham
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Further to Nick's insistence on the "silent" Trojans - he's right. For the past couple of days, as a result of an unrelated but unexpected event on my computer, I've been engaged in a cleaning exercise. I have pretty solid AV and, I thought, pretty solid anti-Trojan software on my machine. But, becoming suspicious, I loaded a new Trojan remover. Lo and behold, it pulled out 46 infection sites. I was, to say the least, a tad surprised.
So, Nick's warning is perfectly correct - these things can sit on your machine completely without a clue being given to you. I spent yesterday changing passwords!
Mike
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Never a bad idea to run extra checks for malware so, after seeing Mike's post, I've given the Vista laptop a thorough going over.
Doesn't help my problem at all but at least I know it's like a Penny Lane fire engine - it's a clean machine ;D
Did this desktop and the netbook at the same time and they're OK as well.
Graham
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Can you say what the Trojan remover was Mike, is it free? By pm is necessary.
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Yep - it's Loaris Trojan Remover, which I fortunately picked up cheaply this weekend,
http://loaris.com/
There's a free trial which will identify infections but won't remove them. Still - it's better to know, I think.
Mike
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Thanks for the site, Mike. I picked up 3 Trojan infections on my computer which were not eliminated by Norton. Is there any free site which will eliminate these. I see that Loaris costs 30 Euros. By the way I use IE8 without problems.
Geoff
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30 Euros seems expensive, specially with the £ low but picking up!
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That's what I thought. Any ideas on a better site? Thanks
Geoff :-\ :-\
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30 Euros seems expensive, specially with the £ low but picking up!
Cheaper than having your identity stolen or hacked ::)
I'd recommend Eset Smart Security 4 (https://secure.eset.co.uk/order/category.asp?intCategoryId=7) - a single copy costs £39, but the price comes down to £22 if you buy two copies (i.e. for a desktop PC and a laptop).
Failing that, then go for Kaspersky Internet Security 2009, £16.40 from Ebuyer (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/146760)
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Thanks for the info Nick; I had a Kaspersky Virus scanner when I had my first desk top computer. it was very slow and thorough, checked every file just like the Russian KGB! Took around an hour to scan a 1GB Hard disk with a 133mb processor!
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I've moved over to Eset from Kaspersky - Eset is pre-compiled code, and the net result is that it puts a much lighter loading on the computer. I've noticed that it doesn't slow the computer down as much.
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Thanks also for the info Nick. I will keep Eset on file for further thought.
I was able to eliminate the 3 Trojan infections found on Loaris and then found another on A-squared free which I could also eliminate. So hopefully all is now well, at least my last scan shows no infection. I thought that I was well protected with Norton, Zone Alarm and Ad Aware but it seems not. I am getting disenchanted with Norton as it really slows down the computer.
In playing around I was amazed at the number of files stored on my computer which have little relevance to my everyday use. I am toying with the idea of making a clean install of Windows but have to pick up courage and time for all the re-installations.
Geoff
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I loaded a new Trojan remover. Lo and behold, it pulled out 46 infection sites. I was, to say the least, a tad surprised.
So am I. I would have a word with Nick29 because there seems to be
something suspicious if you have 46 Trojans on your machine.
Tomkin.
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It really depends on what the trojan actually is. Some are quite benign. Others can relay harmless surfing history, which isn't a great threat. I wouldn't panic about the number of trojans present, but it might be worth doing some research on the names of the trojans which have been claimed to have been found, just to see what the threats actually are.
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I would be carefull with using Loaris as I just ran it and it claimed to pick up 14 Trojans.
I haven't as of identified what all 14 files are for, however several of the files picked as Trojans are for a program called Nero.
One of the identified Tojans being advrcntr2.dll on which I just did a search in google for and from I have seen it is legitimate and is required for Nero.
I haven't as of yet used Nero, it came installed with the computer from the shop, I believe it's for burning CD's.
Post Updated with list of the 14 files as detected by Loaris (most appear to be for Nero)
advrcntr2.dll - HEUR.TrojanDownloader.n
coreavcdecoder.ax - HEUR.Suspicious.UPACK
nedvd.ax - HEUR.Suspicious.UPACK
nevideo.ax - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
nevideohd.ax - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
nevideo2.ax - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
msa.dll - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
MSAxp.dll - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
vis_nas.dll - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
nps.dll - HEUR.TrojanDownloader.n
DVD Shrink 3.2.exe - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
{2447500B-22D7-47BD-9B13-1A927F43A267}\Setup.exe - Generic.dx
(D94A8E22-DF2B-4107-9E51-607A60A7671D}\Setup.exe - Backdoor.Win32.Hupigon
DVDBlockAcc.dll - HEUR.Suspicious.ASPACK
Post updated again,
Loaris doesn't like WOW either, it freezes on scanning one of the WOW exe files.
Yep - it's Loaris Trojan Remover, which I fortunately picked up cheaply this weekend,
http://loaris.com/
There's a free trial which will identify infections but won't remove them. Still - it's better to know, I think.
Mike
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Well, I downloaded Loaris trojan remover, and set it to work on my PC, which was previously protected by Norton Internet Security, then Kaspersky Internet Security 2008, and now Eset Smart Security 4. It has been heavily and repeatedly scanned by all of them.
Loaris claimed to find 24 trojans !
One of them was the Google search bar.
Another one was in Family Tree Maker.
It found one in my HP Printer software.
Another one in Cyberlink Power Cinema.
Two in two screensavers that I downloaded from the BBC Website.
It found one in a freeware media player.
It found 5 in the Opera browser.
And another 2 in the BBC screen savers.
And, Loaris can't spell "scanning".
But who or what is Loaris Inc ? I've been playing with computers for over 25 years, and I've never heard of them.
So, I did a "whois" ......... Loaris.com registered by Eugene Loaris from Varna Bulgaria on 9 December 2008.
Loaris.com is hosted on Lunar Pages, a cheap and cheerful $4.95 a month web host.
I think it's a major con !
Save your money and buy a proper AV program and firewall !
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For example always be careful of the free scans on the Internet.
These will scan your computer and literally find hundreds of problems.
People panic and buy their product. They are laughing all the way to the bank.
Also be very careful about removing Trojans. Seek proper advice. Some
Trojans bind themselves to Registry files. Remove the Trojan and you remove
the file . Result!!! Major computer problems. Fortunately these are rare, but
always seek expert advice. In fact,take the Trojans description and google it.
You will always find loads of information.
Tomkin.
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I had a Kaspersky Virus scanner when I had my first desk top computer. it was very slow and thorough, checked every file just like the Russian KGB!
Appropriate, the chap who developed it is an ex KGB officer. :D
Robert
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Also be very careful about removing Trojans. Seek proper advice. Some
Trojans bind themselves to Registry files. Remove the Trojan and you remove
the file . Result!!! Major computer problems. Fortunately these are rare, but
always seek expert advice. In fact,take the Trojans description and google it.
You will always find loads of information.
Tomkin.
Yes, good advice. It's far better to get a good anti-virus and firewall program in the first place, and then you won't have to worry about how to remove viruses, because they'll never make it onto to your PC. I know times are hard, but skimping on anti-virus programs really isn't a good idea. Ask yourself - why would anyone give a program away for free, if they could make money selling it ? Unless of course they have an ulterior motive.
-
I had a Kaspersky Virus scanner when I had my first desk top computer. it was very slow and thorough, checked every file just like the Russian KGB!
Appropriate, the chap who developed it is an ex KGB officer. :D
Robert
Kaspersky is a little faster these days, and it's certainly better than Norton :)
Not as fast as Eset, though.
-
30 Euros seems expensive, specially with the £ low but picking up!
Cheaper than having your identity stolen or hacked ::
This is getting well away from the original posting on IE8 but interesting. It was only by reading this thread I decided to make a scan using Lauris and was surprised to find 2 Trojan infected files categorised as " threatening". In both cases they were part of program files which I was unaware that I had on my computer. I was able to identify the files involved and then remove them. I certainly would not delete any program files which are important to the use of my computer.
I then found another site which claimed free scan and removal
http://www.emsisoft.net/fr/
and here I found another Trojan infected file which I could again isolate and eliminate.
I certainly would not pay 30 Euros for dubious claims of these sites but I am surprised that I was able to find " Trojan" infections on my computer which ('like Nick) is protected, in my case by Norton and scanned on a regiular basis.
As far as I know, today my computer is free of any infection but I have certainly learnt some interesting facts from this thread.
Geoff
-
I couldn't agree more with most of what's been said. Obviously, anything picked up by ANY Trojan scanner should be checked (unless they're dead simple - I had infected Norton files, which is strange as I've never had anything vaguely Norton-like on my machine. They were immediately deleted). As for the rest, most were reported infections of dll files. It's usually easy to check what a dll file is for on the net and, especially if they're system dll files, to download a clean version (and easy to check them size-for-size).
Loaris does NOT delete things as a matter of course - files which are suspect-only are not marked for deletion, and there is always a note to say that deletion of such files is not recommended. Yes, it appears to be very keen in its identification of infection sites - but I'd rather that than have any missed, and than I can make up my own mind. Sorry if I appear to be championing the program - I'm not - but I feel that the "it's no good unless you pay a lot for it" attitude is basically wrong. Either that, or we must write off the entire open-source movement which has given us, among other gems, Open Office, Firefox and Scribus.
Loaris is certainly likely to identify "infections" which are no such thing - but it is, in my opinion at this moment in time, one of the programs most likely to dig out even the best-hidden genuine infection and allow you to take appropriate action. A con? I think that's going a little far.
Mike
PS Loaris spelling mistakes are a result of the developer's translation efforts - he/she is not a native English-speaker. I don't like it either, but I also don't like Microsoft's spelling and syntax errors.
-
[ A con? I think that's going a little far.
/quote]
Hi Mike,
I will delete my reference to that because it's not what I meant
although that is what it appears. ( If that makes any sense.)
All the anti-virus programmes, root kit detectors, firewalls, spyware,etc
and other programmes that I use are all free. Each one has been tested by
independent sources for their efficiency, ease of use and ability to do what
they claim. I also have access to an I.T. helpline (for which I pay ) who are
very good in sorting out any problems of any nature that I may have. IF
necessary they can take over the computer remotely and resolve any conflicts.
How they do it for the money beats me as even the phone calls are free. Then
again I rarely have any problems so I suppose I'm cost effective as far as they
are concerned. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
-
:'(
Hi Selina,
Don't get involved with IT8. I had the most horrendous weekend with it after I foolishly downloaded it. I have XP. I couldn't get onto the internet except by chance. Forever switching the computer on and off until it deigned to come on so I daren't switch it off again.
On the Sunday I appealed to the wonderful rootschatters and many offered help, it was a wonderful person called Rena who sorted me out via system restore and literally turning back time. I was so grateful. My advice is KEEP AWAY FROM IT.
paslwigr
-
Until 2 days ago I was a user of IE8. In the previous week I had the odd problem of accessing my e-mails and at times sending them. I spoke to my ISP who assumed remote control and after about 30 minutes announced that it in his opinion IE8 was the cause. He suggested Mozilla Firefox which he duly downloaded. All I did then was transfer my favourites and off I went!
I accept that it is early days but it is slightly faster than IE8. Anyway touch wood nothing untoward will occur!!
-
I've finally managed to persuade Microsoft to treat the problem seriously - just received a message asking for a time slot for them to phone me to sort it out next week.
All being well they should be able to resolve the problem on Monday or Tuesday afternoon.
Graham
-
Microsoft got back to you? :o :o :o
Graham, you must have done something really nice at some point. There must be a heaven after all.
One for the record books, then. Note the time and date everyone. Microsoft responded ..... well bu**er me!
Mike
-
Graham, To quote Victor Meldrew; "Unbelievable!" But well done if they phone you. Please update us all.
-
Loaris is certainly likely to identify "infections" which are no such thing - but it is, in my opinion at this moment in time, one of the programs most likely to dig out even the best-hidden genuine infection and allow you to take appropriate action. A con? I think that's going a little far.
Is it ? In my book it's on a same level as the dodgy builder who offers to check your roof, finds lots of non-existant problems, then charges you for a botched job ! ::)
If I'd followed the advice of this "great" program, my Google search bar (which I use all the time) would not work, my HP printer would be on the blink, and I'd be missing a really nice BBC retro "Ashes To Ashes" screen saver !
The Loaris site also breaks UK (and possibly US) trading rules - a web site is supposed to have a link giving a geographical contact address - this is nowhere to be seen on this site. If I hadn't been absolutely confident that my AV and firewall would cope with anything that was thrown at it, I would not have even considered running this program. The internet is full of bogus anti-virus and computer tune-up programs which at best will only make you $35 poorer, and at worst will infect your PC with spyware and malware.
-
Microsoft got back to you? :o :o :o
Graham, you must have done something really nice at some point. There must be a heaven after all.
One for the record books, then. Note the time and date everyone. Microsoft responded ..... well bu**er me!
Mike
Graham, To quote Victor Meldrew; "Unbelievable!" But well done if they phone you. Please update us all.
I think it's something to do with being an awkward s*d who won't take no for an answer - plus over 30 years working in IT so some knowledge of what buttons to press :)
I shall report after the phone call :)
Graham
-
:'(
Hi Selina,
Don't get involved with IT8. I had the most horrendous weekend with it after I foolishly downloaded it. I have XP. I couldn't get onto the internet except by chance. Forever switching the computer on and off until it deigned to come on so I daren't switch it off again.
On the Sunday I appealed to the wonderful rootschatters and many offered help, it was a wonderful person called Rena who sorted me out via system restore and literally turning back time. I was so grateful. My advice is KEEP AWAY FROM IT.
paslwigr
Obviously your computer has a problem that needs fixing, because IE8 works on tens of thousands of computers without a problem. Rolling back to a previous registry record may mask the problem, but it's not fixing it. If my car had a terrible problem with the brakes, I could either take a look at what's causing it, or I could stop using the brakes, but I think the latter "solution" could be rather expensive in the long run ! :)
IE8 has a couple of known "bugs" - one caused by an known interaction with a program that you no longer need with IE8, and the other one Microsoft are looking into. However, these are isolated problems. Tens of thousands of people are using IE8, including myself, and are enjoying the extra facilities that it provides. What version of web browser you use is obviously your choice, but you shouldn't really advise other people not to try it, because they probably won't have problems with it.
-
"... but you shouldn't really advise other people not to try it ..."
I absolutely agree with that sentiment, Nick ;D
Mike
-
:'(
Hi Selina,
Don't get involved with IT8. I had the most horrendous weekend with it after I foolishly downloaded it. I have XP. I couldn't get onto the internet except by chance. Forever switching the computer on and off until it deigned to come on so I daren't switch it off again.
On the Sunday I appealed to the wonderful rootschatters and many offered help, it was a wonderful person called Rena who sorted me out via system restore and literally turning back time. I was so grateful. My advice is KEEP AWAY FROM IT.
paslwigr
Obviously your computer has a problem that needs fixing, because IE8 works on tens of thousands of computers without a problem. Rolling back to a previous registry record may mask the problem, but it's not fixing it. If my car had a terrible problem with the brakes, I could either take a look at what's causing it, or I could stop using the brakes, but I think the latter "solution" could be rather expensive in the long run ! :)
IE8 has a couple of known "bugs" - one caused by an known interaction with a program that you no longer need with IE8, and the other one Microsoft are looking into. However, these are isolated problems. Tens of thousands of people are using IE8, including myself, and are enjoying the extra facilities that it provides. What version of web browser you use is obviously your choice, but you shouldn't really advise other people not to try it, because they probably won't have problems with it.
I hear what you are saying Nick but I think a more appropriate motoring analogy would be a different brand of petrol/oil rather than brakes. The problem described did not manifest itself until IE8 was downloaded. Therefore, even if the condition is pre-existing, there is some difference between IE7 and IE8 which means that it causes a problem which it did not cause previously. Microsoft should have those differences documented and be able to publicise them so that people suffering problems can mount properly structured investigations.
As you say, there are known bugs in IE8. The solution is for Microsoft to fix those bugs. Microsoft should also widely publicise the causes whilst they are developing the fixes so that people can make informed decisions whether to download the software.
Graham
-
On the wider subject of anti virus programs and firewalls, can any of the technically minded give their opinions on the quality of the virus scan and firewall provided by Virgin Media as part of their broadband packages?
-
@GrahamH: My reply wasn't actually aimed at you, because we have ascertained that this is a known problem (i.e. others have seen it), and Microsoft are looking into it.
@Redroger: What software does VM supply ? Is it branded ?
Ahh, found it ! PCguard...... well, I've not come across it myself, but several reviewers on the PC Advisors Forum (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/index.cfm?action=showthread&threadid=312677&forumid=1) had trouble installing and uninstalling it.
Hard to find independent reviews..... one user here (http://www.vista-files.org/programs/software-protection-labs-sofpro/pc-guard-for-win32.html) didn't rate it very highly.
No malware or spyware inside, though.
Mind you, I'm not sure I'd ever want to pay $250 for an AV program - see here ! (http://download.cnet.com/PC-Guard-for-Win32/3000-2216_4-10479530.html) :o I suppose it's the same ?
-
I am running IE8 with my windows XP and I'm not experiencing
any major difficulties. If this was the only programme available
I could see why people would get upset but there any now many
alternatives. Find which ever suits you. It's like taking medicine,
most people don't have a problem but some have a reaction.
Tomkin.
P.S. When my computer was trashed by installing SP3 it took me ages
(and eventually a full XP re-install ) to get it up and running. Some time
later I contacted Microsoft and told them of my experiences. I was contacted by
them and an engineer phoned me on a regular basis . The bloke was fantastic and
couldn't do enough (even though I kept telling him that the problem was resolved)
I ended up as a completely satisfied customer of microsoft especially when he sorted out a load of minor problems for me as "part of the service". I ended up
writing a letter of commendation about the bloke. (Now THAT is rare, for me.)
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tomkin
-
P.S.
As you can see, I'm having a few problems typing more than
a certain number of lines on Rootschat. Doesn't seem to happen on
any thing else ??? ??? ??? ???
Am I bothered? Naaaahhhh!!!!!!
Tomkin. ;D ;D ;D
Just trying to finish this because the Cup final has started and Everton has
scored in the first 40 seconds. Missed It :( :( :( :( :(
Tomkin ;D ;D
-
@GrahamH: My reply wasn't actually aimed at you, because we have ascertained that this is a known problem (i.e. others have seen it), and Microsoft are looking into it.
(snip)
No problem Nick, I realised that.
As regards the specific problem, I was actually referring to the one described by paslwigr.
As regards publisher (in this case Microsoft) responses/solutions my comments were general rather than being specific to any particular problem.
Graham
-
Just in case anybody has missed it,
Tomkin.
Update for Internet Explorer 8 Compatibility View List for Windows XP (KB971180)
Download size: 500 KB , less than 1 minute
This Compatibility View List update helps make Web sites that are designed for older browsers look better in Internet Explorer 8. When users install Internet Explorer 8, they will be given a choice about opting-in to a list of sites that should be displayed in Compatibility View. After you install this item, you may have to restart Internet Explorer Details...
Don't show this update again
-
Not just look better.... some didn't work very well at all without it. I noticed this morning that Ancestry have at last got their profile editing boxes IE8 compatible :)
-
Well, Microsoft phoned as they said they would and ..........................no further forward.
In my messages to the guy concerned I had included details of the testing I did on 24th May (13 points as listed in a posting on this thread). It became obvious, though, that he hadn't read my messages properly and was working from a script aimed at identifying problem with my machine rather than IE8.
Only when I asked him to refer to my message and led him through the steps I had taken did the penny start to drop that (because other browsers work correctly) the problem cause had already been isolated to IE8 ::)
He then put me on hold whilst he spoke to a colleague and came back about 8 or 10 minutes later (good job Microsoft were paying for the call) to say he would have to consult with senior colleagues and ring me back tomorrow.
We shall see what occurs; watch for tomorrow's thrilling instalment ;D
Graham
-
Well, at least they can hardly claim it's a Vista problem. :D
Mike
-
Did he speak English or American?
-
I received my call earlier this afternoon and spoke to several people all of whom spoke English (with various accents).
The guy who rang me yesterday was the first. After "consulting with his seniors" they had decided that - after he has been responsible for the case for over a week - it is nothing to do with the Vista team that he is part of because it is a problem with IE8 (which is what I have always told them, in writing ::) ).
Because it was nothing to do with his team he wanted to close the case (even though it hadn't been resolved) but I insisted on being transferred to the IE8 team. In the event I was actually put through to someone in the Developer Support team who, after several minutes, decided that IE8 problems were nothing to do with him.
I was then put through to the IE8 team - but not the technical team, just the one that helps you if you can't even install it. After several minutes he decided that he couldn't help either and wanted to put me through to the original guy again - but when I convinced him that doing so would be no good he finally put me through to someone whose job is actually to allocate problems to appropriate teams. She has taken my details and will, hopefully, be able to escalate the problem to somebody with the appropriate technical knowledge.
Over the total of 78 minutes and 48 seconds (thank goodness, once again, that Microsoft were paying) I lost count of the number of people I spoke to - people who dealt with the transfers as well as the ones mentioned above. All were very polite but, until the last one, seemd to be in their own little boxes with no knowledge of what goes on in the rest of Microsoft.
Circumstances mean that I won't be able to devote much time to the problem over the next few days so I can but hope for a solution to be found using e-mails only.
Watch this space :)
Graham
-
Forecast ...
The IE8 people will say it has nothing to do with IE8. They'll also say that it might have something to do with the latest Vista updates, but this is unlikely. And finally, they'll suggest that it has nothing to do with Microsoft at all but is very likely to be something else you've installed which is badly written and badly behaved and so is interfering with the faultless coding of IE8.
Betcha!
Mike
-
I think I joined this debate about IE8 before.
I was one of the ones who had awful trouble, three days of fiddling round with settings, phoning computer help etc.
In the end Microsoft themselves led me to this link which will download some software that will uninstall IE8.
http://blogs.technet.com/fixit4me/archive/2009/03/18/uninstall-internet-explorer-8-fix-it-live.aspx
I did.
I have no more problems.
Steven
-
I think I joined this debate about IE8 before.
I was one of the ones who had awful trouble, three days of fiddling round with settings, phoning computer help etc.
In the end Microsoft themselves led me to this link which will download some software that will uninstall IE8.
http://blogs.technet.com/fixit4me/archive/2009/03/18/uninstall-internet-explorer-8-fix-it-live.aspx
I did.
I have no more problems.
Steven
Hello Steven,
I wish an uninstall (which is now very easy) would solve the problem I have :)
Long term, though, the solution is either for Microsoft to either:
1) admit that the fact that IE8 treats files on CD differently is deliberate or
2) admit that it is a bug and come up with a fix.
Graham
-
Not as simple as that, Graham. I think we already established that it's only Vista + IE8 that has the problem ? :)
-
Not as simple as that, Graham. I think we already established that it's only Vista + IE8 that has the problem ? :)
Not necessarily - I ran several autorun programs on a Vista machine with IE8 and no problems at all - even with some auto runs designed for earlier versions of windows.
-
I had this problem on my Toshiba laptop with Vista after updating to IE8, when it wouldn’t autorun a PCW magazine dvd, but after using windows Explorer to browse the dvd I double-clicked on some file or other (it may have been PCW.exe) and the dvd opened.
Vista/IE8 seems to have ‘learnt’ from this as I’ve had no problems with autorun and other disks since then.
Michael.
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Not as simple as that, Graham. I think we already established that it's only Vista + IE8 that has the problem ? :)
Not quite Nick. If it does have anything to do with Vista then it is confined to the interaction of Vista with IE8 as opposed to other browsers.
The CDs have always behaved as expected on the machine in question until three weeks ago when IE8 was first installed by Windows Update. They still work as expected with other browsers when IE8 is installed and they work as expected with IE when IE8 is uninstalled and IE7 is reinstated.
If the cause were a change to the Vista OS resulting from the installation of IE8 then it would be logical to expect that the change would affect Opera and other browsers.
As the problem only occurs when IE8 is the default browser then it has to be something to do with IE8.
Graham
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#in regards to av programmes. i have just done "a google " Search and it gave the best 7 of these.
price grade
no i : Shield De Luxe 2009 $19.99 A
no 2: Webroot 6.0 $39.99 B+
no 3 : Bit Defender $24.99 B+
no 4 : C A 2009 $49.99 B
NO 5 : MCAFEE 2009 $39.99 B
NO 6 : NORTON 2009 $39.99 B
no 7 : EsetNod 32 3.0 $39.99 C+
i just thought some people would may want to know these ratings. am really enjoying reading the replies. i realize how little i know of computing. but i know enough for my requirements and if i run into bother there is always rootchat to help me. hope you do get the better of "microsoft " graham. at least they now know people are not prepared to just sit back and say nothing.
michael
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I don't know, I go away for a few weeks' holiday and come back to (amongst other things) this mega-thread covering at least 3 of my favourite PC-related hot topics: security, browsers and Linux !
There have been a number of comments in here which are pertinent to other threads around problems caused by poorly protected PCs.
There are evidently a number of folk on this board who have some very good knowledge and maybe a separate thread could be used to reach a consensus on what would be a sensible approach for those less-technical to avoid some of these problems in the first place? If no-one bites the bullet I'll kick off that thread tomorrow (it's 1.30am here so I'm not at my best ;) )
Oh and for whoever wanted some good things said about Windows 7, I'll say that having tried to find fault ...er I mean test... both the public Beta and RC1 over the last few months, it looks like Microsoft may have got themselves the OS that Vista should have been - stable, efficient, secure and useable.
IG
-
Hurrah, I can't wait
-
(snip)Oh and for whoever wanted some good things said about Windows 7, I'll say that having tried to find fault ...er I mean test... both the public Beta and RC1 over the last few months, it looks like Microsoft may have got themselves the OS that Vista should have been - stable, efficient, secure and useable.
IG
Nope, you got it right the first time, "find fault" :)
As I said previously, in order to test something you have to know the value(s) of the input(s) to whatever is being tested so that you know what the expected result is. With so-called "beta testing" there is no way that the input values are known - so it is just a matter of random fault finding :)
Having said that, I sincerely hope that you are right about Windows 7 :)
Graham
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Hi Gooddog,
#in regards to av programmes. i have just done "a google " Search and it gave the best 7 of these
Can you tell us who it is that says these are the best?
I can't believe that Nod 32 is worse than the others that you have quoted.
I haven't checked for a while but I was lead to believe that it was probably
one of the best. This was from people who do very extensive testing.
Tomkin
( In fact I was so impressed by it's results compared to all the others, that
I nearly bought it. Then I thought...., am I happy with all my freebies and the
answer was yes. so I didn't bother.) ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Anyway if you want something to read ;D
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/protect_your_pc_from_guys_like_this
Tomkin,
P.S. there are 5 pages to wade through. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I too am having a problem with IE8 and Ancestry.co.uk. I can access everything that I need with no problem but when I try and print a record I get a message 'an error occurred during this operation'. I contacted Ancestry's help and they say the problem is because I am using IE8! The problem is that they can't or won't offer suggestions on how to print records.
I've tried saving the record to a file on my hard drive but when I do so I can't find the file anywhere.
Interestingly, FindmyPast doesn't have this problem, I can download and print what I like.
This is, for me, a major frustration and annoyance as I am not getting what I paid for.
The question is: is anyone else having similar problems and found a fix?
I have Vista and IE8 as my OS.
-
I telephoned Ancestry and they said IE8 will not work properly on their site.
Some say it's Ancestry's fault as they knew well in advance about IE8, some blame IE8 for having a few 'issues'.
They told me to use Firefox which I did.
Like my earlier post, I uninstalled IE8 and instead of going back to IE7 I found out I actually prefer Firefox as it's much simpler to use (for me anyhow).
No amount of tweeking will make IE8 work properly on Ancestry - apparently.
Tiring isn't it
Steven
-
Hi Gooddog,
#in regards to av programmes. i have just done "a google " Search and it gave the best 7 of these
Can you tell us who it is that says these are the best?
I can't believe that Nod 32 is worse than the others that you have quoted.
I haven't checked for a while but I was lead to believe that it was probably
one of the best. This was from people who do very extensive testing.
Tomkin
( In fact I was so impressed by it's results compared to all the others, that
I nearly bought it. Then I thought...., am I happy with all my freebies and the
answer was yes. so I didn't bother.) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well, last year I was using Kaspersky Internet Security, which was OK, but the computer noticeably slowed down when it was doing in-depth scanning. So, I changed over to Eset Smart Security 4, which was supposed to be faster because the code is pre-compiled, which basically means that the computer doesn't have to work so hard to run the program. I have noticed that the computer is a lot less sluggish when Eset is doing in-depth scans than it was when it was doing the same with Kaspersky.
I want the following things from an AV program and firewall.....
- It needs to be effective and secure
- It should place minimum loading on the host computer
- It should keep me informed about what it is doing, and warn me of firewall intrusions
- It shouldn't interfere with other programs that I'm using
- It should be easy to install, and easy to un-install
Eset seems to tick all those boxes. Norton failed miserably on the last two, and it did slow the computer down. Kaspersky loaded the computer down a little less than Norton, but it was still noticeable.
-
I don't use Ancestry but I can't see how anyone can say that it is their fault that their web site does not work on IE8.
Ancestry have a web site which was developed well before the specification for IE8 was written. The site works perfectly well on other browsers.
Microsoft have made a deliberate decision to specify/design a new product which they know is incompatible with some existing web sites.
Why should any company redevelop their web sites to work with Microsoft's new standards when there are plenty of perfectly adequate alternative browsers available?
It is similar to saying that it is OK for a company like Shell to bring out a new fuel and tell all car manufacturers that they must change their vehicles to use that fuel rather than petrol/diesel from other suppliers.
Graham
-
No amount of tweeking will make IE8 work properly on Ancestry - apparently.
Sorry, but that's just not true !
I have been using IE8 since the Beta 2 version, and the only thing that didn't work properly in Ancestry was the editing of profiles (which used a Java script which didn't run properly on IE8), but this was more of an annoyance, because it would work if you persisted. This has now been fixed by Ancestry.
There were also a few page presentation issues, which made the pages look a little odd sometimes, but these were fixed by running in compatability mode. These issues have also now been completely fixed.
I have tried to use Firefox on Ancestry, but always found that pages looked worse than they did in IE, especially the timeline in the profile view. I also could not find a way to make the Ancestry enhanced image viewer work, and I did try very hard to make it work.
Now I can honestly say that I have no issues with IE8 and Ancestry, even with the compatability mode off. I think this may be as a result of millions of Americans switching to IE8, and complaining about the issues they had. Ancestry didn't want to know when I was Beta testing, although I did try to warn them that IE8 would be a popular browser within a few months.
-
Just telling you what the man said!
I'm no expert.
I'm off this post.
Now to find a way of not being informed when someone else posts.
Steven
-
I don't use Ancestry but I can't see how anyone can say that it is their fault that their web site does not work on IE8.
Ancestry have a web site which was developed well before the specification for IE8 was written. The site works perfectly well on other browsers.
Microsoft have made a deliberate decision to specify/design a new product which they know is incompatible with some existing web sites.
Why should any company redevelop their web sites to work with Microsoft's new standards when there are plenty of perfectly adequate alternative browsers available?
It is similar to saying that it is OK for a company like Shell to bring out a new fuel and tell all car manufacturers that they must change their vehicles to use that fuel rather than petrol/diesel from other suppliers.
Graham
Oh come on, Graham, you know that simply is not true ! Try running Ancestry on Opera - it simply will not work (or at least it didn't when I tried), because Opera does not fully support Java. One of the reasons that I could not get on with Firefox was that it never displayed the Ancestry time-line properly on the profile pages, and (as I said in another post) getting the enhanced viewer to work in Firefox was practically impossible.
Ancestry now works perfectly with IE8, and I always knew it would eventually, when millions of Americans upgraded to IE8 as part of the Windows update process.
-
Oh come on, Graham, you know that simply is not true ! Try running Ancestry on Opera - it simply will not work (or at least it didn't when I tried), because Opera does not fully support Java. One of the reasons that I could not get on with Firefox was that it never displayed the Ancestry time-line properly on the profile pages, and (as I said in another post) getting the enhanced viewer to work in Firefox was practically impossible.
Ancestry now works perfectly with IE8, and I always knew it would eventually, when millions of Americans upgraded to IE8 as part of the Windows update process.
I did say I didn't use Ancestry :) - but the company would not have achieved the success it has if its web pages did not work adequately on a number of browsers.
According to Opera Help the browser does work with Java - but "uses the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) on your system directly instead of using the plug-in to run Java applets". With Java being so widespread these days I should have thought keeping the JRE up to date would be part of one's normal maintenance.
You mention that you find IE8 fine for Ancestry but have difficulty with Firefox - which is apparently the opposite experience to Steven's. This appears to be another indication - as other previous posts (and plenty of references turned up by Google) have already mentioned - that IE8 simply does not work properly in some environments. That, in turn, points to inadequate testing, deliberate design or both.
I am minded of the standardisation of COBOL about 40 years ago under the auspices of ANSI. IBM signed up to that but then created their own version of ANSI COBOL which had "extensions" - which meant that a program written in IBM's version of the language could not necessarily easily be re-complied to run on non-IBM machines.
Is that sort of thing really how we want development to continue in the future?
Graham
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Hi steven,
Now to find a way of not being informed when someone else posts.
Steven
It's quite easy mate. On the e-mail informing you of a posting
there is a link for you to unsubscribe to the topic. Just click on
it and you shouldn't get any more notifications.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D
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The real cause of the problems with IE8 and other things has been touched on."Problems would be fixed when millions of Americans upgraded their computers" That's where Microsoft profits come from, the rest of the world are added extras for decoration only.
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Millions of Americans may be upgrading to IE8 but across the rest of the world millions of people are turning their back on IE completely. In the UK almost as many people use Firefox as IE7&8, in the rest of Europe and Asia more people use Firefox than IE.
I have no problems with Ancestry using Firefox, but then I have JRE which is needed for a variety of programmes and is kept up to date.
OK, I confess, when I started on the internet I used Netscape, which at that time was at version 0.81 and I have always loathed Internet Explorer in all its versions, so I am biased.
Robert
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The real cause of the problems with IE8 and other things has been touched on."Problems would be fixed when millions of Americans upgraded their computers" That's where Microsoft profits come from, the rest of the world are added extras for decoration only.
When I said "Problems would be fixed when millions of Americans upgraded their computers" I was referring to Ancestry, not Microsoft.
IE8 hasn't changed, but Ancestry has. Ancestry has always had a reputation for rubbish page coding.
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I did say I didn't use Ancestry :) - but the company would not have achieved the success it has if its web pages did not work adequately on a number of browsers.
Clearly not ! Ancestry is favoured because of the range of information available, not because of the way that it is presented.
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I did say I didn't use Ancestry :) - but the company would not have achieved the success it has if its web pages did not work adequately on a number of browsers.
Clearly not ! Ancestry is favoured because of the range of information available, not because of the way that it is presented.
Note that I did say "adequately". If the range of information was not presented adequately then it would not be used.
Anyway, I may well be off list for a few days - but, hopefully, when I get back Microsoft will have responded positively to my particular problem :)
Graham
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Millions of Americans may be upgrading to IE8 but across the rest of the world millions of people are turning their back on IE completely. In the UK almost as many people use Firefox as IE7&8, in the rest of Europe and Asia more people use Firefox than IE.
I dispute your figures. Do you have any proof of them ? Also, I'm sure that millions of people have downloaded Firefox - I am one of them, and which browser do I choose ? IE8.
I have no problems with Ancestry using Firefox, but then I have JRE which is needed for a variety of programmes and is kept up to date.
So do I, and when I tried Firefox (version 3) I could not get the Ancestry enhanced viewer to work.
OK, I confess, when I started on the internet I used Netscape, which at that time was at version 0.81 and I have always loathed Internet Explorer in all its versions, so I am biased.
I used Netscape too, and I was astounded to learn that one of the authors of the code was a 14 year old schoolboy ???
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I use/have used Firefox on 2 computers here, this one I mainly use has no problems wth Ancestry enhanced image viewer.
The other computer cannot install/download Ancestry enhanced image viewer correctly with FF, it keeps trying.
No problems using IE.
We did installed the latest IE on that computer, my stepdaughter, the main user of it uninstalled it as she didn't like it.
Seems mirosoft has failed with that 16 yr old also :P
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Perhaps they should change their corporate name to the one your typo gave them "mirosoft" they always seem to be in the mire.
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hi tomkin,
sorry for the delay in replying to your question re avs. Google said they were the 7 best avs. who told Google?.
regards
michael ??? ::)
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Hi Michael,
sorry for the delay in replying to your question re avs.
It's just that a lot of these polls etc. are often conducted by people
who have a vested interest in the recommended ones. i.e. they either own them
or have shares in them. That's why I always go to independent reviewers and
even then you have to be careful.
Tomkin ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Spot on Tomkin, I follow the advice given in PC World, the magazine not the shop, where products they are advertising often get slated in the reviews, and Jack Schofield in the Guardian technology supplement (Thurs)
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I just came across this remark on another forum where a member is explaining why a Cd won't autorun with IE8.
This remark I will try to chase up.
"Auto RUN" is a security hole that infected many computers via Flash drives or
other media containing bad stuff (Infections).
The new security models just disable "Autorun"on insert if it was previously
allowed.
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We discussed the Autorun security status a little earlier (probably lost in all the sidetracking posts) but Graham's particular problem, I believe, is that even after resetting IE8 to allow Auto run it failed to operate and yet on the same machine IE7 ran the autorun program perfectly.
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Yep, just found the post about it on page 6.
We discussed the Autorun security status a little earlier (probably lost in all the sidetracking posts) but Graham's particular problem, I believe, is that even after resetting IE8 to allow Auto run it failed to operate and yet on the same machine IE7 ran the autorun program perfectly.
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Millions of Americans may be upgrading to IE8 but across the rest of the world millions of people are turning their back on IE completely. In the UK almost as many people use Firefox as IE7&8, in the rest of Europe and Asia more people use Firefox than IE.
I dispute your figures. Do you have any proof of them ? Also, I'm sure that millions of people have downloaded Firefox - I am one of them, and which browser do I choose ? IE8.
Try reading any one of a whole range of computer magazines which give figures for actual browser usage.
Robert
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Do computer magazines reflect the views of average computer users these days ?
I haven't bought any magazines on computing since I discovered the internet in the mid-1990's. What's the point ?
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Has anyone had issues trying to access the site "GR" once they have updated/downloaded Explorer 8?
I'm running Windows XP - have updates automatically downloaded - last update asked me to download Explorer 8 - duly complied but since then everytime I try and access that site I get an immediate Explorer message screen that tells me that it has to shut down Explorer??
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Have you tried accessing the site in IE Compatability mode ?
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Sorry to sound so dumb but can you explain how I would be able to do that ???
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Next to the bar where you type in the website address, you'll see a button that looks like a page torn in half. Click on it, and it will turn green. This puts IE8 into compatability mode for the site you're on. There's also a "Compatability View Settings" in the Tools menu where you can manually add, remove or edit sites.
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I've been following the posts since asking a question on June 6 about the inability to print off census reports from Ancestry.co.uk.
I am using Vista and IE8 and am not technically minded and have no wish to go loading different internet interfaces.
I asked Ancestry about this issue and their response was I am using IE8! I already knew that and told them so!
My concern is that my annual subscription is due soon and if this problem is not resolved then I may have to look at another genealogy site.(Any suggestions as to what is equally good?)
I have tried the compatibility mode and that makes no difference - I still can't print the actual reports although I have no other printing problems with Ancestry.
I think the question is "why isn't Ancestry updating their software so that it is compatible with IE8? Other software manufacturers have done this.
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I think the question is "why isn't Ancestry updating their software so that it is compatible with IE8? Other software manufacturers have done this.
The problem does not lie with Ancestry but rather with Microsoft and the changes they have made within the structure of IE8 which appear to generate random faults depending upon which system it is installed in. Microsoft do not document the changes made to the internal system by IE8 and without some knowledge of what changes are required it is difficult to change such a system as Ancestry's.
A rather accurate analogy was made earlier of a petrol manufacturer changing the formula for their petrol and telling the car engine makers to change their engines accordingly.
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Thrifty1, I know this isn't much consolation to you, but I am using IE8 on Ancestry, and there is only one thing which doesn't work too well, and that is when you try to edit the profile of someone on your tree, and this is more of an annoyance than anything else, because it does work once you get beyond the 4th or 5th character in the place name.
However, I can view and print census pages with no problems at all. Are you using the Enhanced Viewer, or the standard one ?
I've just done a test print with the Enhanced Viewer, and it worked just fine.
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Hi Nick29. Yes, I tried switching back to the basic viewer and I can print the record, albeit a long procedure to go through and it doesn't print a full page image. If I save a record in 'basic' it is saved as a jpeg file and then I have to go to picture viewer to get it printed and at the same time change the printer settings to accommodate the printing.
In 'enhanced' when I try and print I get a message that says "an error occurred during this operation"
Whether or not we wish to blame Microsoft or not (an easy target), if we took the attitude of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" we would all be driving around in Ford's Model T car. Like it or not we live in a progressive world and it is now a question of keeping up.
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On the subject of if it aint broke don't fix it. Google just downloaded a new version of Google Earth, which it can't run on this computer due to the Graphics. I tried to get back to the previous version via system restore, but it won't let me.Now they want me to update the graphics card, sorry all Greek to me. Why can't they leave well alone instead of these automatic dowloads of new versions available without a thought for your machines compatability?
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Next to the bar where you type in the website address, you'll see a button that looks like a page torn in half. Click on it, and it will turn green. This puts IE8 into compatability mode for the site you're on. There's also a "Compatability View Settings" in the Tools menu where you can manually add, remove or edit sites.
Thanks for trying to help - have done as you suggested but still experience same problem. I have emailed GR directly to see if they have any suggestions - will let you know what they say. >:(
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I think the question is "why isn't Ancestry updating their software so that it is compatible with IE8? Other software manufacturers have done this.
The problem does not lie with Ancestry but rather with Microsoft and the changes they have made within the structure of IE8 which appear to generate random faults depending upon which system it is installed in. Microsoft do not document the changes made to the internal system by IE8 and without some knowledge of what changes are required it is difficult to change such a system as Ancestry's.
A rather accurate analogy was made earlier of a petrol manufacturer changing the formula for their petrol and telling the car engine makers to change their engines accordingly.
The origin of the problems which occur on some systems is definitely the responsibility of Microsoft. It was Microsoft which developed and implemented IE8 knowing that it would cause problems for some web sites.
The admission of that is in the compatibility mode if nothing else. If they didn't realise there would be problems they would not have spent money on developing a compatibility mode.
Whilst, as Nick says, IE8 works perfectly for some people a simple Google search for IE8 problems brings up millions of hits. It is up to Microsoft to publicise the reasons so that affected users can decide what action to take.
From my personal point of view, it is now a week since my particular problem was supposedly escalated by Microsoft. I did tell them that I would be away so couldn't be contacted by phone but had expected to have received at least an interim response from the team now dealing with it. I've e-mailed again this afternoon asking for an update on what is happening.
Graham
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With respect, Graham, Microsoft did give website designers and owners plenty of warning about the stricter requirements of IE8. Whether these people thought it a good idea to make their sites work properly with the most used browser on the planet was really their choice. As a business owner with my own website, I made damned sure that my site works properly with IE8. Ancestry has never really been that famous for good website coding, although to give them their due, the site is quite complex.
Ancestry and GR rely quite heavily in java scripting and Flash graphics - both of these can give some nasty problems if the latest versions of the software are not in use, or not properly installed, or if java is not properly enabled within the security settings of the browser.
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I understand what you are saying Nick but it matters not whether Microsoft gave any warning. The origin of the problems is still the responsibility of Microsoft. Microsoft knew that the way they developed and implemented IE8 would cause problems for some web sites.
That aside, there are definitely other problems, including the one which I am suffering from. The CDs we produce use basic, not complex, HTML coding. We do not use any Java scripting or Flash graphics. Indeed, as proved by my testing, IE8 (when it can be persuaded to open the files) renders the HTML correctly.
The problems which IE8 creates on some systems - which have come about as a result of the way Microsoft developed the product - are not solely related to the web page coding. There are reasons why those other problems occur. Microsoft, if they have a properly documented specification and properly structured testing regime, should be able to state why those problems occur. In my case the fact is that, so far, they have been unwilling or unable to do so.
Graham
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I understand what you are saying Nick but it matters not whether Microsoft gave any warning. The origin of the problems is still the responsibility of Microsoft. Microsoft knew that the way they developed and implemented IE8 would cause problems for some web sites.
Graham, if what you are suggesting was implemented, then the internet would never move forward, and we would all be stuck with the same boring websites that we had in the late 1990's, which relied on pure HTML, and with no java or Flash. For technology to move forward, the old technology has to fall by the wayside, because backwards compatability isn't always possible.
The problems which IE8 creates on some systems - which have come about as a result of the way Microsoft developed the product - are not solely related to the web page coding. There are reasons why those other problems occur. Microsoft, if they have a properly documented specification and properly structured testing regime, should be able to state why those problems occur. In my case the fact is that, so far, they have been unwilling or unable to do so.
I think you are exaggerating a little ! As far as I'm aware, the only other problems seen with IE8 have been with CD's auto-running on Vista systems, and slow starting of IE8 when the innoculation feature of Spybot Search and Destroy have been used, and the latter is easily fixed. You've had the former problem for about two weeks, and Microsoft are aware of it. It takes a little while to iron out bugs and to test for release. I really don't see this as an excuse to hijack every other post on IE8 with your moaning. It really only serves to put people off IE8, before they've even had a chance to try it.
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I understand what you are saying Nick but it matters not whether Microsoft gave any warning. The origin of the problems is still the responsibility of Microsoft. Microsoft knew that the way they developed and implemented IE8 would cause problems for some web sites.
Graham, if what you are suggesting was implemented, then the internet would never move forward, and we would all be stuck with the same boring websites that we had in the late 1990's, which relied on pure HTML, and with no java or Flash. For technology to move forward, the old technology has to fall by the wayside, because backwards compatability isn't always possible.
Having previously spent over 30 years in IT, I disagree. Backwards compatibility is possible if it is designed in. Microsoft have made a conscious decision to design IE8 in the way that they have no matter what the effect on rendering of existing web sites. That is a business decision which is theirs to make but that doesn't remove the responsibility for the decision from the company.
Whether any site is boring is a matter of personal preference.
The problems which IE8 creates on some systems - which have come about as a result of the way Microsoft developed the product - are not solely related to the web page coding. There are reasons why those other problems occur. Microsoft, if they have a properly documented specification and properly structured testing regime, should be able to state why those problems occur. In my case the fact is that, so far, they have been unwilling or unable to do so.
I think you are exaggerating a little ! As far as I'm aware, the only other problems seen with IE8 have been with CD's auto-running on Vista systems, and slow starting of IE8 when the innoculation feature of Spybot Search and Destroy have been used, and the latter is easily fixed. You've had the former problem for about two weeks, and Microsoft are aware of it. It takes a little while to iron out bugs and to test for release. I really don't see this as an excuse to hijack every other post on IE8 with your moaning. It really only serves to put people off IE8, before they've even had a chance to try it.
As I said yesterday, a Google search for IE8 problems brings up millions of hits - is Google exaggerating? If there are only one or two problems the numbers must mean that the effect is widespread.
I agree that it takes a little while to iron out bugs and to test for release. I spent enough years doing that myself as a software developer. What is required during that time, though, is effective customer service providing proper communication with the affected end user.
My criticisms of Microsoft, based on fact, are no more moaning than your opposite view is that of an apologist for a flawed product.
Graham
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My criticisms of Microsoft, based on fact, are no more moaning than your opposite view is that of an apologist for a flawed product.
Not at all Graham. My motives for posting on this thead are the same as they ever were - to help others with their problems, which is what I was trying to do when you posted your latest complaint. I am not an apologist for Microsoft, and I have never denied your claims that IE8 has flaws - name one piece of software that doesn't !
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My criticisms of Microsoft, based on fact, are no more moaning than your opposite view is that of an apologist for a flawed product.
Not at all Graham. My motives for posting on this thead are the same as they ever were - to help others with their problems, which is what I was trying to do when you posted your latest complaint. I am not an apologist for Microsoft, and I have never denied your claims that IE8 has flaws - name one piece of software that doesn't !
Nick, if you read my post (as quoted by you above) properly you will see that I was not accusing you of being an apologist for Microsoft, quite the opposite in fact.
I do note, though, that this is not the first time you have accused me of moaning as well as accusing me of talking rubbish. If that comes within your definition of helping people with their problems then so be it, we shall have to agree to differ.
It is also irrelevant to this discussion whether or not any other software has flaws. Again, if you look back at my posts you will see that my concern is not simply that IE8 is flawed but also the way in which Microsoft is addressing (or not) those flaws and the fact that they have directed my support request to a number of teams which have nothing at all to do with IE8.
Graham
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Hurrah and Huzzah !!!!! Yesterday, four weeks to the day after first contacting Microsoft, I received a solution to my problem.
Somehow a particular registry key had been set to (what IE8, but not other browsers, considered to be) an invalid value. Setting it to the correct value enabled IE8 to function correctly.
I'm still waiting for further tests to be carried out by Microsoft for the reason why the invalid value occurred and why IE8 did not trap and report it as an error, rather than simply refusing to work without explanation.
I'm also waiting for confirmation of whether the fix will work in all cases. If any more of our customers experience problems I should like to be able to tell them the reason and how to correct the problem.
Graham
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Just to let you know about my problem accessing GR.
I contacted Microsoft via their on-line support dept and they responded within 24 hours with a number of solutions (all of which failed to help).
I emailed them back asking how I could reverse the installation back to IE 7 and within a matter of hours an update came through which completely resolved the issue.
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Microsoft have now confirmed that the fix supplied to me should work for other people but have been unable to explain how the registry key was given the wrong value, though it has to be something to do with the IE8 installation routine.
It's a bit annoying that Microsoft didn't prevent the error from occurring in IE8 because one of the references they supplied me with - Here (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/04/04/protected-mode-for-ie7-in-windows-vista-is-it-on-or-off.aspx) - shows that they have been aware of the possibilities of problems for a couple of years.
Microsoft have, however, agreed that a program should never end abnormally without providing a feedback message to the user. If that had happened in this case then it would have taken rather less than four weeks, and rather less wasted time, for MS to provide the solution. All being well they will also take on board the need to amend the IE8 code to always supply a reason when an Abend occurs.
Graham
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If that's the case Graham, then the sooner they practise what they preach the better. Will now have a look at the link you mentioned.
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Another good reason not to go for IE8 in XP
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If that's the case Graham, then the sooner they practise what they preach the better. Will now have a look at the link you mentioned.
The overriding lesson I used to preach to trainee programmers was KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. There is no such thing as a complex computer instruction but things can get hairy when they are put together wrongly. That factor is magnified when an instruction is actually a macro which executes a subroutine which the programmer (or is it simply coder these days?) doesn't fully understand.
It all calls for a thorough specification and highly structured testing which checks that the developed code does what is specified. Basically no more or less than we expect from manufacturers of things like cars and aircraft.
Another good reason not to go for IE8 in XP
Having installed IE8 on the Vista laptop again, in order to test out the fix, I've left it in place but I haven't used that machine to access the Internet much so far, so wouldn't like to comment on how good (or not) it is.
Given the problems I've experienced, though, I'm not inclined to install it on any of our XP machines. IE7 is running perfectly well and giving us what we need - with Opera & Sea Monkey installed as alternatives if we require them.
Graham
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Another good reason not to go for IE8 in XP
Why ? Graham is using Vista. I don't see your logic ?
IE8 & XP SP3 in use here - no problems at all.
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Graham
I'm pleased for you that Microsoft has sorted your problem.
There is nothing more infuriating than not knowing why something has stopped working.
Cheers
Koromo
:)
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Another good reason not to go for IE8 in XP
Why ? Graham is using Vista. I don't see your logic ?
IE8 & XP SP3 in use here - no problems at all.
Agreed that the particular problem which I and my customer suffered occurred using Vista. I also agree that many installations of IE8 (probably the vast majority, I haven't counted) are trouble free in both Vista and XP.
However, there still remain a number of problems (including the one I suffered and those which a Google search highlights, connected with IE8 running under XP) which are there because IE8 has not been throughly tested.
On that basis the law of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes in. The logic is that if IE7 is providing all that is required and implementation of IE8 carries a risk of malfunction then that is a good reason for not implementing it.
Graham
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IE8 has functions that IE7 didn't have, which are not earth-shattering, but which are still good to have. I wouldn't want to roll back to IE7.
I still think that the problems that Vista users have had with IE8 are due to changes brought about by Microsoft to stop "psuedo hard drives" on flash memory sticks from propagating viruses when they auto-run. This will apparently be fully implemented in Windows 7, due out later this year, but my guess is that many of the roots for this new change were already laid down in Vista.
If the problems in IE8 were down to the actual program coding, then a simple registry change wouldn't fix them.
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IE8 has functions that IE7 didn't have, which are not earth-shattering, but which are still good to have. I wouldn't want to roll back to IE7.
Computer hardware and software are simply tools. As with anything else, a function is only good to have if one has a need for it. People in general don't rush out to buy a new screwdriver (for instance) just because the latest on the market has a bit of extra oomph; they do so if they identify that it would be useful.
I would not argue with your desire not to roll back to IE7 but neither would I argue with someone who does not wish to implement IE8 because they do not need the new functionality.
I still think that the problems that Vista users have had with IE8 are due to changes brought about by Microsoft to stop "psuedo hard drives" on flash memory sticks from propagating viruses when they auto-run. This will apparently be fully implemented in Windows 7, due out later this year, but my guess is that many of the roots for this new change were already laid down in Vista.
When "my" problem first occurred I wasn't sure whether it was the result of a deliberate act by Microsoft or a coding bug. It soon became clear that it was the latter though. If it was the result of a deliberate act then Microsoft would have had documentation detailing the "roots" and should have been able to direct my request to the appropriate team and supply an answer to the problem quickly.
If the problems in IE8 were down to the actual program coding, then a simple registry change wouldn't fix them.
The problem in the IE8 coding is that the program simply stops (with no explanation) if the particular registry entry has a value which is not expected. The registry change amended the value to one which the coding is capable of handling and thus enabled it to work.
It is a general principle of programming (at least it was when I was developing & maintaining software) that a program should never end abnormally without providing a feedback message to the user. The fact that IE8 did so proves that there is a coding error. As I said yesterday, Microsoft have agreed that is the case.
Graham
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Why don't we just apply the KISS principle and keep it simple; seems to be a human trait though we build on a foundation, and then add something to it, and build it into an ever more complex edifice, since this is often easier (in the short term) than starting out afresh.
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Why don't we just apply the KISS principle and keep it simple; seems to be a human trait though we build on a foundation, and then add something to it, and build it into an ever more complex edifice, since this is often easier (in the short term) than starting out afresh.
Absolutely. All too often short term savings lead to previously stable systems becoming akin to upside down pyramids - which have to be replaced when they fall over and smash to pieces anyway.
No system changes should be made without reference to both the original overall specification and any changes which have taken place subsequently. Too often only the small area being changed is considered with no thought for any effect on the rest of the system.
Graham
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The edifice which I had most to do with during my working career was railway conditions of employment, and rates of pay. Suffice it to say as an illustration that the pay of workshop staff in the 1960s and 70s was based on the following: The rate of pay in 1925, known as the base rate plus the amount of each pay rise added separately and individually when awarded plus for staff in motive power depots a repair bonus based on 27 1/2% of the base rate. You can therefore imagine what a fitters pay card looked like, around 50 entries to determine his rate of pay before bonus. Luckily decimalisation simplified this sector; however in the early 1990s I was headhunted to a vacancy as a chief clerk in charge of rostering train crew, primarily drivers on the basis that I was the only person on the railway management side who had any knowledge of a form of rostering and payment known as contract mileage; a clear case of hire the roster expert and teach him about computers, rather than hire a computer expert and teach him about rosters. This mileage agreement had originally implemented in 1914 (I think), my experience of it was 1958-1964, the vacancy arose in 1993 nearly 80 years after the first agreement and over 30 after my experience with it. Staff benefitting from the arrangement worked a 3 or 4 day week and were paid megabucks.
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I remember bus drivers having similarly complicated payment calculations - phased out in the 1970s or 1980s I think :) We had special routines in the payroll system just for them.
Graham
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duplicate post deleted
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When on contract mileage a driver could work Monday- Wednesday, Off Thursday-WEdnesday, Work Thursday- Wednesday Off Thursday - Saturday etc. etc. earnings over £30K mid 1990s.
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The best job I ever did was when I worked in a union closed shop. It was a licence to print money. These days you'd have to go into banking to make so much for doing so little :)
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The best job I ever did was when I worked in a union closed shop. It was a licence to print money. These days you'd have to go into banking to make so much for doing so little :)
Or become an MP ;D ;D ;D
Graham
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Hardly Graham, a failed banker, Goodwin has REDUCED his pension to £375K, almost double the Prime Minister's salary, and 6 times that of a back bench MP>.Remember for all their failings the MPs have to sort out the failures and dodgy dealings of the bankers.
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Remember for all their failings the MPs have to sort out the failures and dodgy dealings of the bankers.
Then why haven't they!!!!
Tomkin
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Good point, But it's a work in progress. So few people understand the crisis, and so many bankers etc. have their own agendas, and don't really care if the system crashes so long as their own nests are feathered.There are also limits to what can be done in a democracy, particularly one where the government suffers constant harrassment from a hostile press!
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I was thinking more of the expenses Roger :)
It would be nice to see MPs go through the same sort of Job Evaluation process that local government has had to undergo in recent years. Could well end up in their salaries being cut.
As for bankers salaries - and footballers etc for that matter - the only way to curb excesses in the private sector is through legislation.
Like your point don't really care if the system crashes so long as their own nests are feathered
Didn't realise Microsoft had opened a bank ;D ;D
Graham
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so long as their own nests are feathered.
Sorry I thought that you were still talking about M.P's.
particularly one where the government suffers constant harrassment from a hostile press!
I think that a hostile press is the least of their worries.
Besides, if it wasn't for the press we would never know what this Government
is up to and I would imagine there are still vast amounts that are covered up.
I don't think that this topic is a suitable one to discuss these things.
Tomkin AKA Tomkin last word on the subject ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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If we are ever stupid enough to elect Cameron as PM you will find that all of a sudden the right wing press will start fawning all over him as though his government will be able to save the nation. They have neither the wit nor inclination, I would be very suprised if they don't have all their loot off shore.However, these postings have come a long way away from IE8!
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Graham , Still off topic but you raise some important points. I would like to see an additional qualification introduced for a candidacy to any elected office, that would be a requirement for a wouldbe candidate of all or no party to have passed an examination administered by the civil service with the purpose of ensuring that all candidates had the intellectual equipment to deal with the complex issues of national and local government, and that they could distinguish right from wrong. I was involved in local government many years ago as a county and subsequently borough councillor. My experience of the lack of integrity and intellect of many councillors of all parties led me to the conclusion above. I would also like to see the following: The number of councillors reduced by 2/3s and their remumeration doubled; the post becoming full time with a legal right to return to their previous employment, when ceasing to hold elected office. I firmly believe that what is needed at all levels of governance is an effective elected opposition, and the practise of alternating holding of committee chairs and vice chairs when political control changes should be outlawed. Those who practised this in the former West Riding of Yorkshire were known as the "shake hand gang", and the practise led directly to the corruption and planning scandals of the 1970s.
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Yes, it is becoming a bit OT isn't it :) I'll send you a PM instead.
Graham
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If we are ever stupid enough to elect Cameron as PM you will find that all of a sudden the right wing press will start fawning all over him as though his government will be able to save the nation. They have neither the wit nor inclination, I would be very suprised if they don't have all their loot off shore.However, these postings have come a long way away from IE8!
It will only be a matter of time before the manipulating Murdochs switch their allegiance, and tell all the Sun readers to vote Tory. Let's hope they never decide to back the BNP :o
Moderator comment: topic locked as it seems to have run its course.