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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: buddha on Thursday 07 May 09 20:18 BST (UK)
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Hi, Looking for a marriage between John Brook(e), Brookes/brooks and Elizabeth Tye. John was born in Gornal, Shropshire/Staffordshire and elizabeth was born Brosely, shropshire/staffordshire. In the 1851 census they had a child aged 11months, so possibly married C1849. I say Shropshire/staffordshire because when I have been looking on different sites some have said Brosely is Staffordshire and some say Shropshire, equally with Gornal, so not sure which county they are actually in. John was born C1827 and Elizabeth C1829. Any help would be appreciated, many thanks Pat.
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Hiya Pat
Have you confirmed Elizabeths surname off one of the childrens birth certificates?
Willow x
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Hi Willow, thanks for reply. No I havn,t so I will try to get the actual dates of one of the children and send for it. Many thanks Pat
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Hiya Pat
I asked because there is a marriage for a John Brookes 2/4 1850 Dudley and on the same page an Elizabeth Jefferies/Jefferys ref is 18 475. Dudley covers Sedgley which is by Gornal
Willow x
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Thanks Willow will try and check that one out. I think whats been putting me off is the fact that I,ve got John and Eliza living with the Pye/Tye family in the 1851 Census with John listed as brother-in-law, so I,ve assumed Pye/Tye was eliza,s maiden name. One of the main problems are that John Brooks is a very common name in that area. I,ve come across 1 or 2. I also know that John was a bricklayer, but then again I,ve come across 1 or 2 John Brookes who were bricklayers. I also wondered if they may have married in Brosely as that is where Elizabeth came from. But having said that I suppose it is possible that after her birth her family moved to the Gornal/Sedgely/Longton area. Hopefully will get there in the end, many thanks for your help, Pat
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Hello Pat
The 1861 +71 census states that the eldest son was born at Dudley Worcs.
Jackie.
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Hi Jackie, Yes you,re right.I think if I can find his birth details I am going to have to send for HIS certificate. Thanks for pointing that out, Pat. Think I,ve found it on fam search June 1850. So I will send off for a certificate many thanks, Pat
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Pat
Info from FreeBMD
Birth reg.John Brooks June qtr 1850 Dudley
Jackie
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Thanks Jackie, Thats confirmed what I had so hopefully in about 1wk I should find out his mothers maiden name, Pat
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Hiya Pat
Let us know what it says when you get it
Willow x
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Hi Willow, will do. It should be here today or tomorrow. REgards Pat
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Hi Willow, Just recieved the birth certificate for John. According to it his mother was Elizabeth Rowley. so I will start looking into that information, Thanks for your help regards Pat
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Hi Willow, Have now recieved the marriage certificate for John Brookes and Elizabeth Rowley so now I should be able to follow through with their parents names. They apparently married in Birmingham???. Many thanks for your help, Regards Pat
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Hiya Pat
Off the IGI there is the marriage of John Brooks to Elizabeth Rowley 9.8.1847 at Saint Phillips, Birmingham
Strangely this doesnt come up on FreeBMD
Willow x
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Hi Willow, yes thats the one. I just don,t know why they went so far to marry. According to the marriage certificate they were both of full age. Unless maybe Elizabeths parents moved to Birmingham for some reason. It gives Elizabeths fathers name as George, occupation tailor. I would just like to find some evidence of George in either Brosely or birmingham, just to hopefully nail it. Regards Pat
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Hiya Pat
There is this family in Wolvey Warwickshire that would fit
HO107 Piece 1136 Book 33
If you want the full details posting let me know
Willow x
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Could you do that please Willow, Many thanks Pat
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All born in county
George Rowley 40 Taylor (sic)
Elizabeth Rowley 37
Elizabeth Rowley 12
Louisa Rowley 8
Emma Rowley 6
Priscilla Rowley 4
William Rowley 2
There are several baptisms on the IGI as well
Willow x
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Thanks Willow. Now I will check on some of the baptisms and see if any of the children were born in Brosely as I know thats where Elizabeth was born. Thanks for your help, regards Pat
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Hi Willow, I think I am going to have to go back to the drawing board on this one. Initially I sent for the birth certificate for John Brooks who I know fron the census,s was born in Dudley C1850 obviously to get the parents names. They came up as Father John Brooks, Mother Elizabeth Rowley. Both John junior and john Senior were bricklayers. I know from the census,s that Johns mother elizabeth was definitely born Brosely, shropshire. So the family you found can,t be them. So having said that there must be another John Brooks born Dudley C1850. I think I am going to have to send for another of the childrens birth certificates, if I can find their births to verify things. Thomas c1853, Joseph C1857, William C 1860, George C1862 and Elizabeth C1865. Thomas joseph and William were born Wolverhampton, George born Longton and Elizabeth Springvale. Will let you know how I get on. Hopefully will get there eventually. I was a bit thrown with the marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth Rowley as it gave johns occupation as a bricklayer as he was. But must admit I couln,t understand why they would go all the way to Birmingham to get married as in those days it was a long way. If your family had given Elizabeths birth as Brosely that would have nailed it but it didn,t. Hope this makes sense Regards Pat
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Hello Pat
Going back to the 1851 census at Stoke (Brookes living with Rich.Pye) the house sched.no.is 132,Wood St.
at sched no.145,Wood St. is this family..
Adam Dawson 33 Stoke
Sarah 30 Salop Broseley
Richard 9
George 7
Marie 5
Charlotte 3
Adam 18 mths
Margaret Rowley 51 moth-in-law Salop Bentell?
Rich Forrest 27 lodger
Marriage at Cheadle Adam Dawson +Sarah Rowley June qtr 1842
Baptisms (IGI) St Leonards Broseley
Rowley parents George +Margaret
Fanny 1815
Sarah Elizb.1819
Thomas 1822
George 1823
Elizabeth 1825
Arodah 1827
John 1828
Death on FreeBMD Margaret Rowley June qtr 1868 Stoke age 68.
Don't want to add more confusion, but found this marriage IGI ..
Margaret Rowley Pye +Edward Grainger 12 July1875 Fenton Staffs (interesting..)
Jackie
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Pat
I think I've found the Pye + Rowley connection.Going back to 1851 cens(again) Elizabeth Brookes was Richard Pye's sister in law.
He has step-daug.Elizb.Berkley(Barker) age 13
In 1861 Richard's wife Maria states she was born at Broseley Shrop.
Bear with me..
Marriage-Richard Pye +Maria Barker-9Nov.1845 Caverswall Staffs.
Marriage-Maria Rowley +William Barker-18 Dec. 1836 St Leonards Broseley.
Baptisms- Elizabeth Barker 7 May 1837 Madeley Shrop.
Emma ......... 10 March 1839 ..... .....
Possible bapt.Maria Rowley 11 March 1810 St Leonards Broseley parents George +Hannah
Could George(father have married twice?)
Marriage George Rowley + Margaret Boden 3 July 1813 St Leonards Broseley.
In 1841 at Broseley
Margaret Rowley 40
George 16
Elizab. 4 (poss g.daug.)
Jackie.
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Thanks for info Jacq definitely think you have got there but it is taking a bit of getting into my thick head, No doubt I will get my head around it but will take some time. I am now going to try and digest it all. I don,t know how you all do it, I know I couldn,t without the help of all of you, Many thanks Pat
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Hi Jacq, did you get my reply to PM don,t know if I did it right? Best wishes Pat
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Elizabeth b 1825 makes more sense because if she was born 1829 she would only be 17/18 when she married - mind you that might explain why they were married in Birmingham
Willow x
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Hi Willow and Jackie, I would just like to say a great big thankyou to you both for all your help and the hard work you must have put in to find out everything you did. I think I have now possibly got the right marriage certificate (Birmingham) but isn,t it all messy. I have printed off everything you have found out for me, but still can,t seem to get it all together in my head. But at least I definitely think we are on the right track. Once again a very big thankyou, regards Pat :-*
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I'm a few years late with this, did you sort it out? I'm also researching this family and came up with the same as you got with Elizabeth Rowley and the Pye confusion before I found your post. Regards Richard.
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Hi Richard,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Sadly you have replied to one of our members we have lost touch with (changed email address) when this happens we add a little note underneath their profile name to let folks know.
Old members do get back intouch all the time, I hope that this will be the case with Budda.
Regards
Sarah
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I have John and Elizabeth in my tree, they are my 3x grwat grandparents. Elizabeth was Elizabeth Rowley, not Pye/Tye. Her sister Maria married Richard Pye but he was her 2nd husband, her first marriage was to William Barker. This is why everyone gets confused by the 1851 census, Elizabeth was the sister of Maria, not Richard Pye.
Best wishes, Richard