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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Spidermonkey on Thursday 07 May 09 12:40 BST (UK)
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1901;
2 Galley Hill Terr
John Robinson H Mar 48 Time keeper Hants Wouldham
Mary E Robinson W Mar 43 Hants Bincted?
Percy J Robinson Son 18 Hants Bincted?
Henry J Robinson Son 16 Hants Aldershot
Ethel E Robinson Dau 13 Kent Chatham
William F Robinson Son 12 Ireland Carragh
Olive M Robinson Dau 10 Hants Aldershot
Ida Robinson Dau 8 Surrey Woking
HOrace F Robinson Son 5 Kent Chatham
Agnes Robinson Dau 3 Kent Swanscombe
Emily G Robinson Dau 1 Kent Swanscombe
RG13; Piece: 706; Folio: 51; Page: 38
I wonder if the family had military connection before Horace joined up?
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Hi Everyone,
On his enlistment papers as a volunteer in the Australian Army (AIF), 1312 Horace Frederick Robinson's next of Kin was his Dad, John, and the address for John Robinson was 2 Galley Hill Terrace, London Road, Greenhill KEW.
Just Moi
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Possible marriage for parents:
John Robinson JunQ 1881 Alton 2c 295 (FreeBMD)
Bride: Mary Elizabeth Simpson
Alton registration district would cover births in Binstead and East/West Worldham
Nanny Jan
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This is info about Horace's brother NOTICE THE AUSTRALIAN ADDRESS
Henry James ROBINSON
Regimental number 747
Religion Church of England
Occupation Loco fireman
Address 'Roslyn' Cowper Street, Granville, New South Wales
Marital status Married
Age at embarkation 30
Next of kin Wife, Mrs Catherina Mary Robinson, 'Roslyn' Cowper Street, Granville, New South Wales
Enlistment date 13 July 1915
Rank on enlistment Private
Unit name 30th Battalion, C Company
AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/47/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board HMAT A72 Beltana on 9 November 1915
Rank from Nominal Roll Private
Unit from Nominal Roll 30th Battalion
Fate Killed in Action
Place of burial Bethlehem Farm West Cemetery (Row F, Grave No. 9), Messines, Belgium
Panel number, Roll of Honour,
Australian War Memorial 117
INFO on Horace will show SAME ADDRESS, please see my next post.
Just Moi
ADD THESE TWO POSTS ARE SOURCED FROM THIS LINK http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showUnit?unitCode=INF30CC
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Horace Frederick ROBINSON
Regimental number 1312
Place of birth Gillingham, Kent, England
Religion Church of England
Occupation Clerk
Address 'Roslyn', Cowper Street, Granville, New South Wales
Marital status Single
Age at embarkation 20
Height 5' 7.5"
Weight 140 lbs
Next of kin Father, John Robinson, 2 Galley Hill Terrace, London Road, Greenhill, Kew, England
Previous military service Nil
Enlistment date 20 July 1915
Place of enlistment Liverpool, New South Wales
Rank on enlistment Private
Unit name 30th Battalion, C Company
AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/47/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board HMAT A72 Beltana on 9 November 1915
Rank from Nominal Roll Private
Unit from Nominal Roll 30th Battalion
Fate Killed in Action 20 July 1916
Place of burial No known grave
Commemoration details V.C. Corner (Panel No 2), Australian Cemetery Memorial, Fromelles, France
Panel number, Roll of Honour,
Australian War Memorial 117
Other details War service: Egypt, Western Front
Embarked Sydney, 9 November 1915; disembarked Suez, 11 December 1915.
Embarked Alexandria to join the British Expeditionary Force, 16 June 1916; disembarked Marseilles, France, 23 June 1916.
Posted missing, 19/20 July 1916.
Identification disc received from Germany. No particulars afforded except that the soldier is deceased. Now, 13 March 1917, to be reported killed in action, 20 July 1916.
German report, 27 September 1919, 'austr. Sold. Robinson, H. J. C. 30. Batt. Nr. 1312. am 19.7.16. in Gegend Fromelles gefallen.'
Note, Red Cross File No 2330708: 'The above name appeared on German death list dated 4-11-16.'
Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal
Sources NAA: B2455, ROBINSON Horace Frederick
Red Cross file 2330708
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Playing around with the free search on 1911 census, it appears that Olive, Ida, Agnes and Emily are still with John and Mary Elizabeth in Kent. There is also a Harold, which may be a mistranscription of Horace as the ages seem to match up.
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Olive M Robinson mar James Coffee Jun qtr 1913 Dartford (2a 1097).
Possible daughter born in 1927
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Ida Robinson mar Frederick W Twocock Mar qtr 1914 Dartford 2a 911
Possible son born 1915 - Frederick Twocock
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NSW marriage for Horace's brother perhaps ???
1843/1912 ROBINSON HENRY J TREACY CATHERINE M (at) GRANVILLE
(so if this is Horace's brother, then perhaps both the brothers came to Australia before 1912)
EDITED TO ADD
Have not found arrival in NSW, at least two named Horace, but plenty of H Robinson. Perhaps someone familiar with early 20th century migration to Aus may have clues
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There was a military background
1891 Royal Engineer, Aldershot
John Robinson H Mar 33 Company Sergt Majr RE bn Hants Alton
Mary Elizabeth Robinson W Mar 33 bn Hants BInstead
Percy John RObinson son 8 Scholar bn Hants Binstead
Annie May RObinson dau 7 Scholar bn Kent Shorncliffe
Henry James Robinson son 5 Scholar bn Hants Aldershot
Ethel Elsie Robinson dau 3 Scholar Chatham
William Francis RObinson son 2 bn Ireland
Olive Maude RObinson dau 1mnth bn Hants Aldershot
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Possible birth for Horace's sister in law, born Redfern (Sydney NSW), daughter of Thomas and Mary.
25013/1896 TREACY CATHERINE M THOMAS MARY REDFERN
It is likely that as she was born in NSW, that she would have stayed here after the deaths of both her husband and her brother.
Perhaps there are descendants of her marriage to Horace's brother, still living in NSW.
ADD after reading Spidermonkey's post
So that military background would explain why both the NSW brothers enlisted. All AIF enlistments were voluntary, no conscripts in WW1.
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Perhaps this is the death of Horace's possible niece Kathleen M, at Granville, daughter of Henry J and Catherine M
1034/1927 ROBINSON KATHLEEN M HENRY J CATHERINE M GRANVILLE
(Note the online index for bdm has a 99 year rule for privacy for births, and a 50 year rule for marriages and a 30 year rule for deaths, IF ANY chatter has access to the CD for Pioneers in NSW up to 1918, please look up birth for Kathleen).
ADDED I have put a request on the Australian Boards for help with that birth.
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Possible marriage for Ethel E Robinson to Bertie J
Wooster George Sept qtr 1914 Dartford 2a 1482
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Percy married Ethel White in 1905. Two children according to 1911 - John bn 1908 and Henry Kirke bn 1910. Think from freebmd, they also had Ethel M in 1913
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Probably found Horace's niece thanks to rootschatter on Australian boards
Kathleen Mary Robinson died 16 March 1927, aged 14 yrs 8 mths, Catholic Mortuary 2 & 3 Sec. C, Row 1, Graves 1,2 at Rookwood Cemetery (that's in Sydney NSW). Those two graves show because there are other family members there., but they seem to her her mother's parents.
That doesn't progress finding anyone in NSW for Horace. but hopefully, we will have progress on the UK clues soon.
I have been reading the In Memorium columns online for July 1918, 1919 and later. In some ways I feel I am intruding, and in other ways I feel I am helping.
I share the following verse inserted in the Argus of Fri 19 July 1918 for another AIF lad who never returned
"A Grave in France with the grass o'ergrown,
A grave in the heart of his mother.
The clay in the one lies lifeless and cold,
But memory remains in the other.
He has finished his part, we must still live on,
Trying, like him, to be brave;
Our sacrifce is in what we have lost,
His was in what he gave.
LEST WE FORGET
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This is what I have in my file on ROBINSON :)
________________________________________
NAME Robinson, Horace Frederick
SN 1312
RANK Private
UNIT 30 Bn
HONOUR Standard entitlements
BORN Gillingham Chatham Kent
OCCUPATION Clerk
RELIGION Anglican
DOE 20.07.1915 Liverpool NSW
AGE 20
STATUS KIA
DATE 20.07.1916
AGE 21
BURIED Unknown
MEMORIAL VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel 2
AWM 117
DESCRIPTION 5 foot 7 1/2 with fair complexion grey eyes and fair hair
NOTES Arrived in Australia aged 17
Brother Henry James Robinson gave consent for enlistment
ID Disk returned by German authorities
Residence on enlistment 'Roslyn', Cowper Street Granville NSW
No mention of ID Disk being returned to NOK
NOK Father: John Robinson
2 Galley Hill Terrace Swanscombe Kent
Brother: Henry James Robinson AIF 747 30 Bn
Brother: L C Robinson AIF 1241 30 Bn
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The 1913 Sands Directory for Sydney Suburbs has a Harry (Henry's nick name) Robinson residing at Cowper St Granville. Unfortunately this listing does not have a house number or name. However, it would be fair to presume this was the residence where Horace lived with his older brother Henry and Henry's wife.
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There's an H F Robinson aged 16 leaving London for Sydney on 12 Sept 1912 on theTHEMISTOCLES owned by the Aberdeen line. Occupation given as Farm Hand.
There were 3 other Robinsons on the ship but they left in South Africa.
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Bit More, A Co-incidence?
The Vessel Thermistocles also seems have brought another of the missing Fromelles fallen to NSW. I will check through and then edit this message to include the names and dates of those voyages.
H F (presume Horace) Robinson departing London 12 September 1912 on this vessel
Arthur Mossop James arriving Sydney 11 January 1912 on this vessel
Could it be that the vessel was chartered by for an emigration scheme? Not sure yet.
Just Moi
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Bit More,
The Themistocles arrival in Sydney for H F Robinson ex London 12 Sept 1912, arrival 1912 Oct 27 and
1912 Nov 13 (presume went perhaps to NZ or up and down east coast of Australia before returning to Sydney, or perhaps several vessels named Themistocles ?? in Australian waters at similar times)
Also note other possible arrival dates for Horace Frederick Robinson (found online on commercial site)could well include:
Horace Robinson, ex London for Sydney on Pericles, arrived Sydney 10 Oct 1909
Horace Robinson, ex London for Sydney on Matatua arrived Sydney 19 Dec 1911
The search continues
JM
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Hi all,
I have just checked the yellow pages for Robinson,Granville NSW
and up came 2 Robinson,s with phone number,s a long shot I know!
Obviously I can not list those people here as they are living.
Does any body want me to pm them with the details.
Kind regards,Billy
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Hi Billy,
If you pm the fromelles team leaders I am sure they will be delighted, and I am sure they appreciate your concerns for the possibilities of living descendants.
I will post this now and get their avatars and then re-edit, so you can see who to pm.
ADDED fedelmar who is on this thread is one of those team leaders.
JM
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Hi JM,
cheers,Billy.
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Hi All,
Just wondering if the clues Billy found have led anywhere, or if the searching is to continue for Horace Robinson.
JM
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Hi all,
I have sent pm,s To Spof and fedelmer
JM if you PM me more names I will try again,
I think it is worth phoning as they can only say no!
we may only be a phone call away from solving this one!
kind regards,Billy.
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Hi Billy,
I don't think it would be wise to phone anyone, rather I would suggest we leave that for the team leaders to think through carefully.
But there are still other Fromelles missing lads to follow up on, and I think that's where us at RChat can provide a very vital service. I think our roles are as significant as those that have the training to make the phone call and then find the way to let us know the progress.
Thanks Billy, I am currently trying to follow up on the lad, Joseph Scott - one of the harder ones among the Fromelles missing, and look forward to your keen eye on that thread.
Many thanks Billy,
JM
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Hi JM,
I agree, I have sent the info to 'spof 'and ' fedelmar' for them to mull over,
I will check out the thread on Joseph Scott
kind regards,Billy
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Hi all.
I have finally found the front end of these threads lol.
It would I think be helpful if the fromelles.net group could put together another list on their site with a running update of where they've got to with tracing descendants of those with no direct relatives involved.
It could start with the list of names and whether a relative has been found to match 'X' chromosome DNA, Maternal Mitochondrial DNA.
In the absence of information from the MOD about the yields and types of useful DNA from the human remains they have unearthed it seems prudent to be in a position where all possible checks could be 'in place' well before the unveiling next year.
Mary Elizabeth Simpson appears to have been the daughter of Harry Simpson and Hannah Sawes, married in 1857. She had two sisters according to the 1871 census.
H
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I have found a potential maternal mDNA link for this man.
Any use?
H
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Hi there,
May I suggest you send a pm to fedelmar with details of that DNA link.
Just Moi.
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I have had a positive contact from an mDNA line relative of Horace Robinson who is contacting the Australian MOD to participate in their project.
Best,
Howard
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I've looked back to my email correspondence on this man and see that I sent the details of the identified MtDNA relative who now lives in Victoria Australia to Tim and Sandra. I was rather hoping that they would contact the man - identified by his cousin, as I believe he is a great nephew via Horace's sister to inquire whether he had been able to assist the MOD as I was indicated by his cousin that he might.
Best
Howard
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Still looking for a Y donor for Horace Robinson. Lookng in UK, have a tree and have a target name, but cant pick him out as name too common!!
anyone able to help?
Marg O'Leary
Fromelles Association