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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: deeiluka on Wednesday 06 May 09 13:35 BST (UK)

Title: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 06 May 09 13:35 BST (UK)
NAME   Ross, James Hugh         
SN   1216         
RANK    Corporal         
UNIT   29 Bn         
HONOUR   Entitlements         
BORN   Stirling Scotland c1893         
OCCUPATION   Grocer         
RELIGION   Presbyterian         
            
DOE   12.07.1915 Melbourne Vic         
AGE   22         
            
            
STATUS   KIA         
DATE   19.07.1916         
AGE   23         
BURIED   Unknown         
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery memorial panel ?         
   AWM 116         
            
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 9 1/2 with brown hair         
   One gold tooth upper jaw         
            
NOTES   Identity disk returned by German authorities         
            
   Arrived in Australia age 20         
            
   On the AWM Honour Roll circular another reference is given:         
   Mrs J Clark 9 Hillington Gardens Cardonald Glasgow Scotland.   
      
NOK   Father: James A Ross                     
   12 Cunningham Street Northcote Victoria                     
   Possibly died Northcote 1943 Aged 70 Reg No 12291 (parents Daniel & Cath Ross)                     
                        
   Mother: Alice T Ross                     

   Sister: Isabella W Ross                     

   Sister: Elizabeth R Ross

   Brother?: Agnes T Ross

   Sister: Alice W T Ross



Thought I'd follow Silvery's lead and start a separate thread for James Hugh Ross. 

The original thread is
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,379339.0.html

I've just found a  possible marriage and a death in Victoria which might help......

Alice Waddell Thomson Ross married Edmond Frederick West in 1935
Ref = 2280

Alice Waddell Thomson West aged 69 died in 1970 in Melbourne.
Ref = 3248
Parents = James Alexander Ross and Alice Waddell Thomson.

Agnes Thomson Ross married  Harold Clements in 1939.
Ref = 11069

There's also a death for Isabella Waddell Martyn aged 70 in Pres in 1962.
Ref = 8664
Same parents.


The death certificates could be helpful.  :-\

Victorian death certificates usually list children.


Dee

Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 06 May 09 13:54 BST (UK)
I've found the death of Elizabeth R. as well......

Elizabeth Ryan Russell died aged 28 in Northcote in 1925.
Ref = 2852
Parents listed as Jas Alex Ross and Alice Waddell Thomson.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 06 May 09 14:03 BST (UK)
Isabel Waddell Ross married Rupert Samuel Martyn in 1919.
Ref = 1312

I've found the birth of a son, but won't post it on here as there's the possibility he is still living.


I'll PM it to Sandra.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: fedelmar on Wednesday 06 May 09 23:24 BST (UK)
Thanks heaps Dee ...

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 03:00 BST (UK)
From the Electoral Rolls.....

In 1919 James Alexander Ross was living at 99 Arthurton Rd, Northcote Victoria. He was a gardener.
Listed with him was wife Isabel Waddel Ross (Home Duties)and daughter Elizabeth Ryan Ross. (Sales)

In 1924 James Alexander and Isabel Waddell Ross are still at the same address. Daughters Alice Thomson Ross and Agnes Thomson Ross are also at that address. Both are given as machinists.

1931 is interesting. Not only are James Alexander and Isabel Waddell Ross are still at the same address,but as well as daughter Alice Thomson Ross being there, there's also an Edith Ross and a John Ross. Edith is a machinist,  and John is in Sales.

1936 sees James Alexander Ross still at the same address in Northcote and still working as a gardener. The only other one that appears at that address is Agnes Thomson Ross.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 04:25 BST (UK)
The marriage of Elizabeth Ryan Ross to Harry Russell took place in 1922.
Ref = 5116

In 1924 Elizabeth Ryan Russell (Home Duties) was at 137 Harold St, Northcote, Victoria. At the same address was Harry Russell, joiner.


Dee

Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 04:49 BST (UK)
In 1919 and in 1924 Isobel Waddell Martyn (Home Duties) was living at 12 Lennox St, Northcote, Victoria. At the same address was her husband Rupert Samuel Martyn, flock machinist.

By 1931 the couple had moved, address now given as Astor, Morris Rd, Upwey, Ferntree Gully, Victoria. Rupert's occupation now state as labourer. Same details for 1936.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 04:55 BST (UK)
Alice Thomson West (Home Duties) and husband Edmond Frederick West (Sales) are at 2 Gordon Ave, St Kilda Central, Victoria, in 1936.

There's also an Emily May West, dressmaker, at that address.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 10:47 BST (UK)
I think the family arrived in Melbourne aboard the ship Makarini that departed London on 5th May 1914......with the exception of the father James A Ross.

Listed are
Mrs A Ross 42 Home Duties
Miss I Ross 22 Dressmaker
Mr J Ross 20 Ditto  ???
Miss E Ross 17 Waitress
Miss A Ross 16 Ditto
Miss E Ross 8
Master J Ross 5

All from Scotland.

Maybe, like many other families, the father came on an earlier ship to find a home for the family...... :-\


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 11:20 BST (UK)
Thee's a James A Ross of the right age arriving arriving on board the Commonwealth in 1911. However, his occupation is listed as miner....but in 1901 in Scotland he was grocer.  :-\

There was also a Mr J Ross, age unknown arriving on board the Malwa in 1912.....but no occupation given for him.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Thursday 07 May 09 12:23 BST (UK)
It looks like James Hugh Ross's mother Alice Waddell Ross died aged 79 at Elwood in 1950.
Ref = 3840

Her parents were James Thomson and Mary Brown.


I wonder where she was in 1936 when she didn't seem to be listed with husband James Alexander?

Maybe she did what my grandmother did....and went back "home" for a visit.    :-\


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 04:24 BST (UK)
Hi All,

James Hugh ROSS   Regimental number   1216   Place of birth   Stirling, Scotland  Religion Presbyterian
Occupation Grocer  Address   48 McLachlan Street, Northcote, Victoria     Marital status   Single
Age at embarkation   21  Height 5' 9.5"   Weight   158 lbs  Next of kin Father, James Alex Ross, 48 McLachlan Street, Northcote, Victoria  Previous military service Nil  Enlistment date 12 July 1915
Place of enlistment   Melbourne, Victoria  Rank on enlistment   Corporal  Unit name   29th Battalion, D Company   AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/46/1 Embarkation details   Unit embarked from Melbourne, Victoria, on board HMAT A11 Ascanius on 10 November 1915 Rank from Nominal Roll Private Unit from Nominal Roll 29th Battalion Fate Killed in Action 19 July 1916 Age at death from cemetery record 23  Place of burial   No known grave  Commemoration details V.C. Corner (Panel No I), Australian Cemetery Memorial, Fromelles, France  Panel number, Roll of Honour, Australian War Memorial 116
Miscellaneous information from cemetery records   Parents: James and alice ROSS, 99 Arthurton Road, Northcote, Victoria. Native of Scotland      Other details   War service: Egypt, Western Front
Embarked Melbourne, 10 November 1915; disembarked Suez, 7 December 1915. Embarked Alexandria to join the British Expeditionary Force, 16 June 1915; disembarked Marseilles, France, 23 June 1916.
Posted missing, 19/20 July 1916.
'Identification Disc received from Germany. No particulars afforded except the soldier is deceased. To be reported as KILLED IN ACTION, FRANCE 19.7.16.' on the authority of Assistant Adjutant General, ANZAC Section, from War Office.
A handwritten note on the bottom of the B.103 notes, 'buried in Fromelles sheet 36 N 22 B & D'.
Red Cross File No 2360509 has statement from 1057 Pte E.J. AMY, D Company, 29th Bn, 21 December 1918: 'On morning of 20th July 1916 at Fleurbaix in our attack we were cut off, he was wounded by bullet, hit in abdomen. We were lying out on the field until the following morning. I left them and tried to get back. We had bandaged him up, when I left he was unconscious, but in a bad way, he did not leave any message.'
Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal  Sources AA: B2455, ROSS James Hugh
Red Cross file 2360509

http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=261609

LEST WE FORGET


Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 08 May 09 06:23 BST (UK)
I don't seem to be able to get any further with tracing down James Hugh Ross's siblings and any descendants.  I think I might PM a coupe of the rootschatters who frequent the Australian board and have a good grasp of Victorian records.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 06:48 BST (UK)
Hi All, especially Dee,

My OH and I sent out several GR messages and a reply has come back to indicate that at least one GR member with a listing for a James Ross, born Scotland in about 1893 could NOT have been in the Australian Army.  I have replied back and hope that that GR member will re-consider.  Hopefully they will also check the fromelles website, cause I put that in the GR message.  Hope the Victorian Boards get behind this project.

Just Moi.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 09:05 BST (UK)
Could be him in Scots Census 1901 perhaps ?
Address seems to be Bennett's Buildings, Govan,  Lanarkshire

James A Ross 36  (1865) and Alice W Ross 30  (1871) with:
Isabella W Ross 9  (1892); James H Ross 7  (1894);  Elizabeth R Ross 4  (1897); Agens T Ross 3 (1898);  Alice W T Ross 6 mo  (1901) and  John Ross 29  1872 (possibly bro of James A, ie uncle to James Hugh Ross)

Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 09:18 BST (UK)
This info may be at odds with other sightings, but ..... 1903 in Victoria (Australia) Electoral Roll there are at 64 Fitzwilliam St Kew:
James Hugh ROSS a tinsmith and Elizabeth May ROSS, home duties.  These electors would have needed to be 21 years or older to be enrolled, so perhaps not connected to this Lad.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Friday 08 May 09 13:04 BST (UK)
I think I have tracked down the death of James Alexander Ross in Victoria.

There's the death in PRAN of a Jas Alexr Ross aged 77 in 1942.
Ref = 2643
Parents  = James Ross and Elizabeth Ryan.

James Alexander Ross was listed on the 1901 Scottish Census as born in Elgin c 1864.

IGI has James Alexander Ross born 13 November 1864 in  Elgin, Moray, Scotland  to James Ross and Elizabeth Ryan.
Batch = C111351

Just for interest......James Alexander had a brother named Hugh.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Saturday 09 May 09 02:17 BST (UK)
Just a note to say that I have sent GR messages to several of their members listing a James ROSS born about 1894 in Scotland.  I have had one reply so far indicating that the one that member listed had married in 1917, but he had NO middle name.  I await other GR replies from other GR members.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 09 May 09 02:34 BST (UK)
Here is some burial information for the sisters of JAMES HUGH ROSS.

{Alice Wadell Ross, Agnes Thompson Ross, Isabella Waddell Ross}

I've just found a  possible marriage and a death in Victoria which might help......

Alice Waddell Thomson Ross married Edmond Frederick West in 1935
Ref = 2280

Alice Waddell Thomson West aged 69 died in 1970 in Melbourne.
Ref = 3248
Parents = James Alexander Ross and Alice Waddell Thomson.

Agnes Thomson Ross married  Harold Clements in 1939.
Ref = 11069

There's also a death for Isabella Waddell Martyn aged 70 in Pres in 1962.
Ref = 8664
Same parents.
per DEE


Cemetery  - Springvale Botanical Cemetery   
Given Names  - AGNES THOMSON   
Surname -  CLEMENTS   
Funeral Director-   JOHN ALLISON MONKHOUSE-BRIGHTON   
Date of Service -  25/05/1994   
Date of Death -  21/05/1994   
Age-   95       
Burial Type  - CREMATION   
Location Details -  The cremated remains have been collected
Public Grave Y/N   N   


 Springvale Botanical Cemetery   
Given Names -  ALICE WARDELL T   
Surname-   WEST       
Date of Service -  12/02/1970   
 Burial Type-   CREMATION   
Location Details   The cremated remains have been collected
Public Grave Y/N   N 


At Fawkner Memorial Park...  cremated
Name-Isabella W Martyn aged 70
 Located at Garden Of Remembrance 2 Shrub Garden Bed B Shrub 83.     
Service Date 
MARTYN  Isabella W.  7/05/1962 
 
At the same location is her husband
MARTYN  Rupert S  13/10/1972

The funeral director given for Agnes Clements may have information about female descendants??
Sue 
 
   
 
 
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Saturday 09 May 09 07:08 BST (UK)
Cando has very kindly sent the details of the burial of James Ross's mother.......she's not got much spare time for posting at present.......so thanks, Cando......  :D

Burial record
Springvale Botanical Cemetery     
Given Names    ALICE WADDELL THOMSON     
Surname    ROSS     
Date of Service    18/04/1950     
Burial Type    CREMATION     
Location Details    Grevillea - Rose Tree Garden J3 Bed 4 Rose 53     
Public Grave Y/N    N     
Tenure Date    In perpetuity - For all time


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: majm on Sunday 10 May 09 07:29 BST (UK)
Bit of a co-incidence, re the ship the Commonwealth, perhaps the Lads noticed it too. 
 
James A Ross of the right age arriving arriving on board the Commonwealth in 1911.
a Jack Rose aged 22 and a tailor sailed on the Lunds Blue Anchor Line ship COMMONWEALTH from London to Sydney on 11 Oct 1909, arriving Sydney 30 Nov 1909.  (Jack Rose may be an alternative name for Jack Joyce, as explained on the thread for Jack Joyce).

Just Moi
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: judb on Monday 11 May 09 04:24 BST (UK)
Following on from the Australia Board discussion of James Ross, and the info posted on here re the deaths of his sisters.  these notices are from contemporary Melbourne newspapers.

Re; Agnes Thomson CLEMENTS
Death notice Melbourne Sun-Herald May 23  unfortunately only gives forenames; 'husabnd of  Harold (dec), aunt of Beverley and John, great aunt of Richard and Michael".  No other notices for Agnes.

Re: Alice Thomson WEST.
Death notice, Sun News Pictorial 12 Feb 1970.  Unfortuantely the film is of a bound copy of the Sun and Alice's notice is not entireoly  readable.  She died at Peter McCallum Clinic.  Her address is given as 2 Melosa Ave, East *on, daughter Beverley (Mrs Harvey), mother-in-law of John and agrandmother of Richard and Michael.  Funeral was from St Leonard's Presbyterian Church , New St, Brighton Beach.  Funeral Directors J Monkhouse and Son.
Presumably this is the same 'Beverley' as given in Agnes death notice - so at least we have a surname for her now.   My guess is that the address is 'East Brighton'.

Re Isabella MARTYN
Death notice, Sun News Pictorial May 7 1962
Her address 5 Shakespeare Ave, East Preston.  Died May 5, Wife of Rupert, mother of Les and Allan, mother-in-law of Bon, nana of Ian and Helen.
Funeral from chapel of H J R Lewis, High St, Regent.

Some thoughts;

Looks as though Beverley may be the only direct female descendant of these sisters.

I reckon the funeral directors would be worth trying.  The funeral directors for Agnes and Alice are the same - Monkhouse (Alice) was incorporated with John Allison Monkhouse (Agnes).  They may be able to give some contact for Beverley.

Hope this is of some help!  Judith
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: sparrett on Monday 11 May 09 07:31 BST (UK)
Hi All,
I'm sure we all feel great appreciation to judb for her research about these women.

As a matter of fact, I did email John Al***on   Mo****use funeral directors at the end of last week asking specifically about Agnes Thompson CLEMENTS. one of these sisters.

No response to date.

I will give it another 24 hours and try again.  there may be issues of privacy in the way of making contact.

Judb has sent me by PM some possible direct links to the possible descendant  mentioned above.

I think I need to get advice now on the next step.  Perhaps Sandra (fedelmar) ??

Sue
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 11 May 09 08:09 BST (UK)
I've just caught up with what's been happening......wonderful work, Judb......  :D  :D

And it looks like great team work may have done it again.   :D  :D   :D

I think perhaps Sandra might like to take it to the next step.


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: sparrett on Monday 11 May 09 08:57 BST (UK)
Hi All,
Sandra has advised me by PM that her colleague, Tim, is authorized to make any descendant contacts,.... so there we go.  ;D

He  knows correct procedures and avenues to do this.

Sandra also says she is really happy about the way things have gone here!!

Can't help feeling hopeful  about the outcome  ;D
Sue
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross
Post by: deeiluka on Monday 11 May 09 09:01 BST (UK)
At this point I feel this thread should be locked, unless we hear from Sandra that more research is needed.


Dee

Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 20 May 09 10:19 BST (UK)
Tim L has had some good news re descendants of James Ross. I've unlocked the thread so that he can post his message on here.  :D


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: Auimfo on Wednesday 20 May 09 12:21 BST (UK)
Thanks Dee,

Yes indeed.   Due to the great work of everyone here we've managed to locate the niece of James Ross.   I was told by her friend that she was currently in France but only a short time ago I received a phone call from her as she had returned yesterday.

All confirmed!!

Has a photo of him and a bit of other information and is sending me copies of it all.

Excellent work yet again.

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: deeiluka on Wednesday 20 May 09 12:28 BST (UK)
Brilliant news, Tim.....

So glad to have been a part of it, and able to assist along with the rest of the team.......  :D  :D


Dee
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: fedelmar on Wednesday 20 May 09 12:36 BST (UK)
It leaves one with a sense of contentment to know that we have all helped to see the boys have names on their headstones.

Well done every one and me too  ;)

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles Missing - James Hugh Ross COMPLETED
Post by: Marg OLEARY on Friday 19 June 15 11:57 BST (UK)
Still looking for a male Y dna donor for James ROSS, looking in Scotland, anyone able to help?

 I have a DNA chart prepared.

Marg O'Leary
Fromelles Association