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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: silvery on Wednesday 06 May 09 10:37 BST (UK)

Title: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: silvery on Wednesday 06 May 09 10:37 BST (UK)
Trying to trace descendents of


397 Private Douglas CASWELL
Born: Powyke, Worcestershire, England
NOK: Eberron and Sophie CASWELL (parents)


1901 census   RG13/2783/46/17

Edwin E Caswell  33 coal agent b Germany Wiesbadan (German subject)
Sophie M C Caswell    34 b Powick  (children all b Powick)
Douglas Caswell    6
Nellie G Caswell    4
Margrate Caswell    3
Ebbora J Caswell    1

1911

Elborn Caswell 43/1868
Sophie 44/1867
Douglas 16/1895
Nellie 14/1897
Margeate 12/1899
Elborn jnr 11/1900



Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: silvery on Wednesday 06 May 09 10:45 BST (UK)
Possible marriage for Nellie Caswell to William Ball, Kidderminster 1915. 

Possible for Margaret Caswell to Frederick Potter Kidderminster 1925. 
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Wednesday 06 May 09 10:52 BST (UK)
Please could all rootschatters  help us help this important project
Copying across from other thread

397 Private Douglas CASWELL
Born: Powyke, Worcestershire, England
NOK: Eberron and Sophie CASWELL (parents)
Stockton, Newcastle
Douglas’ Occupation in AUS – butcher,
N o K addresses: are for NSW Stockton Newcastle, NOT for NEWCASTLE UK. Douglas St, Stockton Newcastle NEW SOUTH WALES, clearly shown on page 1 of his AIF enlistment papers. He was 21 years, no months when he enlisted on 16 July 1915.  His place of birth is shown several times as POWYKE, WORCHESTERSHIRE ENG.
On Feb 6th 1923, his mother signed for his medal, and in earlier years for other memorials, her first name clearly Sophie, and her middle initials were M and C. His father signed for some medals too, in earlier years and on 2 Feb 1923
ADDING this is from the following thread  
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,379339.0.html

Just Moi

Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Wednesday 06 May 09 14:07 BST (UK)
Douglas CASWELL

This is a fairly "rare" surname.  And I have noticed that at naa.gov.au there is a Miss Caswell listed as a confidential typist attached to the Prime Minister's office in 1936.  There is a photo even.
The link is
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Items_listing.asp?S=1&F=1&O=0&T=I&C=3

It may be that Miss Caswell has no connection to Douglas, but perhaps someone knows how to check that out.

Just Moi (tired, but still trying to help)
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Wednesday 06 May 09 14:11 BST (UK)
CASWELL 

1935 Electoral Roll for ACT, Australia has a Thelma Ruby CASWELL, typist at Gorman House, Braddon.  Perhaps that's the Miss Caswell in the 1936 photo, however still none the wiser if she was connected to Douglas.

Cheers,  Just Moi
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: silvery on Wednesday 06 May 09 18:09 BST (UK)
FRom Ruskie on main thread

Not too sure about this as district for Powick is Upton but:

Mar Dec 1915
Nellie Caswell = John W Ball
Kidderminster
6c 205

No luck finding marriages for Margrate (Margaret?) and Ebborn but found parent's marriage:

Dec 1892
Caroline Mary S Beckel/t = Edwin Ebborn Caswell
Upton 6c 531
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: silvery on Wednesday 06 May 09 18:25 BST (UK)
Mother: Sophie M C Caswell daughter of Peter (Gateshead?)
   She died 1953 aged 87 Newcastle Reg No 29366
   Douglas Street North Stockton Newcastle NSW


(Think she may have been in UK in 1953 not NSW - will check)
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Wednesday 06 May 09 19:54 BST (UK)
Here's someone who may be able to help:

http://www.jenforum.net/caswell/messages/1287.html

Mike is a long-time Caswell researcher but I haven't come across Nancy.

My lot aren't from Worcester. :)

Paul

ADDED: I have e-mailed Nancy.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Wednesday 06 May 09 20:33 BST (UK)
Sadly, the e-mail bounced. :(

Has anyone got any ideas how we can track her down? She seems to have dropped out soon after 2007.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Wednesday 06 May 09 21:27 BST (UK)
Nancy Tracy may be a red herring. It looks like her Caswell connection begins in the 1860s but she would certainly be worth finding. She may have something useful.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: fedelmar on Wednesday 06 May 09 23:30 BST (UK)
I will just add what I have on Caswell for you ... might help a little bit ... who knows.

NAME   Caswell, Douglas           
SN   397           
RANK    Private           
UNIT   30 Battalion           
HONOUR   Standard entitlements           
BORN   Powyke Worcestershire England           
OCCUPATION   Butcher           
RELIGION   Anglican           
               
DOE   16.07.1915 Liverpool NSW           
AGE   21           
               
               
STATUS   KIA           
DATE   20.07.1916           
AGE   22           
BURIED   Unknown
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel 2
   AWM 116
   
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 8 with fair hair
   
NOTES   
   
   
NOK   Father: Eberron Caswell
died Newcastle NSW 1919 Reg No 7189
   
   Mother: Sophie M C Caswell daughter of Peter (Gateshead?)
   She died 1953 aged 87 Newcastle Reg No 29366
   Douglas Street North Stockton Newcastle NSW
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Wednesday 06 May 09 23:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for the details.

I'm trying to contact Mike Caswell who has been a significant centre of research into Caswells for many years.

I will post with more if he gets back to me.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Thursday 07 May 09 12:02 BST (UK)
Hi Paul,

There is more info about Douglas Caswell at the initial thread which is at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,379339.0.html

Just Moi.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Friday 08 May 09 04:29 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Douglas CASWELL  Regimental number 397  Place of birth Worcester, England  Religion Church of England  Occupation Butcher Address Mitchell Street, Stockton, Newcastle, New South Wales
Marital status Single  Age at embarkation 21  Height 5' 8.5"  Weight 126 lbs  Next of kin Father, Eberon Caswell, Mitchell Street, Stockton, Newcastle, New South Wales  Previous military service Nil ('resided outside Military District')  Enlistment date 16 July 1915  Place of enlistment Liverpool, New South Wales
Rank on enlistment Private  Unit name 30th Battalion, B Company  AWM Embarkation Roll number 23/47/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Sydney, New South Wales, on board HMAT A72 Beltana on 9 November 1915  Rank from Nominal Roll Private Unit from Nominal Roll 30th Battalion
Fate Killed in Action 20 July 1916  Place of burial No known grave  Commemoration details V.C. Corner (Panel No 2), Australian Cemetery Memorial, Fromelles, France  Panel number, Roll of Honour, Australian War Memorial 115  Other details War service: Egypt, Western Front Embarked Sydney, 9 November 1915; disembarked Suez, 11 December 1915. Admitted to 2nd Australian Stationary hospital, Tel el Kebir, 12 March 1916 (diptheria); discharged to unit, 23 March 1916. Embarked Alexandria to join the British Expeditionary Force, 16 June 1916; disembarked Marseilles, 23 June 1916.
Missing, 20 July 1916. 'Identification Disc received from Germany. No particulars were afforded except that Soldier was deceased. May now be reported "KILLED IN ACTION" 20/7/16.'

Red Cross File No 710210 has statement from 792 Pte A.C. WALKER, 28 August 1916: 'I knew Caswell; his initial was D. He was in the original Bn. and he was in B.V. No. 1 Section. I saw him lying wounded in No Man's Land on 19.7.16 at Fleurbaix, between 8 and 9 p.m. This was in the 4th. wave and he and I were carrying ammunition. He was hit in the hip and leg and could not get up but rolled into a shell hole and had to be left. 2 of my mates and I went back to where we left him and although I am perfectly sure that we found the place where we had left him the shell hole was then filled in. I feel quite sure that he must have been killed and buried and not taken prisoner.'

Second statement, 2157 Pte C.F. SIMPSON (patient, Lakenham Hospital, Norwich, England), 3 January 1917: 'Informant states that on July 19th. 1916 at Fluerbaix (sic) he saw Caswell killed by Machine Gun, he does not think he was buried, he fell in No Man's Land.'

Red Cross File p. 12: copy of statement from Central Enquiry Office, Royal Prussian War Office: 'Identity disc [of CASWELL, D.] handed in by left property office Army Corps 6 on 12.10.16.'

The above name appeared on German death list dated 4-11-16.'

Medals: 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal  Sources NAA: B2455, CASWELL Douglas
Red Cross file 710210 

http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=48932

LEST WE FORGET
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Auimfo on Saturday 09 May 09 00:55 BST (UK)
Just a note to let everyone know to keep an eye on the Worcester News.

I received and email from one of it's journalists who is doing a story on Douglas Caswell asking for a few more details about him.   After a flurry of emails, he eventually rang me and we discussed Caswell and Fromelles for quite some time.

The article should appear in the paper in the coming days and will be appealing to descendants or anyone with information about Caswell to come forward.

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Saturday 09 May 09 06:49 BST (UK)
Well Done Tim

I'm here in NSW so if you  can put link up when that article is online, please do.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 13:40 BST (UK)
...
Possible for Margaret Caswell to Frederick Potter Kidderminster 1925. 


Good news!

I have searched from 1925 to 1940 and found three children to this family, all girls, born 1925, 1931 and 1935.

Obviously I cannot post their names here as they may be living but if anyone has access to electoral registers for Kiderminster they may be able to find them. Sadly I do not.
 
If someone could PM me I could pass the names on and perhaps we could make further progress.

Meanwhile I will look for marriages for them.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 14:09 BST (UK)
...
Possible for Margaret Caswell to Frederick Potter Kidderminster 1925. 


Good news!

I have searched from 1925 to 1940 and found three children to this family, all girls, born 1925, 1931 and 1935.

Obviously I cannot post their names here as they may be living but if anyone has access to electoral registers for Kiderminster they may be able to find them. Sadly I do not.
 
If someone could PM me I could pass the names on and perhaps we could make further progress.

Meanwhile I will look for marriages for them.

Paul

Bad news!!

I don't know why I didn't check this first but:

Births Sep 1905 Caswell    Margaret May         Kidderminster    6c   212

This is NOT our Margaret and is probably the one I have been chasing.  ???

I'll see what I can find for Nellie.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 18:11 BST (UK)
No sign of any children to Nelly Gertrude Caswell and John W Ball up to 1920. :(

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 19:52 BST (UK)
I've created a new Ancestry public tree for Douglas:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/person.aspx?tid=11137262&pid=-520272077

If anyone wants to join the hunt let me know.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 20:17 BST (UK)
A hot match has directed me to the following marriage in NSW

1556/1935     
Groom: CASWELL      EBBORN J J     
Bride: BROWN      CHRISTINA D     
District: MAYFIELD

Could someone with NSW search experience see what they can find out about this? It seems too close to ignore. Douglas' younger brother was named Ebborn J. It may not be him but could be an offspring of Nelly or Margaret.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Auimfo on Saturday 09 May 09 23:00 BST (UK)
Have discovered that Douglas came to Australia with his father in 1912 and his siblings arrived with their mother in 1913.   I have found the following regarding them:

Father: Ebborn E CASWELL died at Newcastle NSW 7189/1919

Mother: Sophie Mary C CASWELL died at Newcastle NSW 29366/1953

Sister: Nelly Gertrude CASWELL married Gordon Kenneth McLENNAN in Stockton NSW 4815/1917
She died in Wauchope NSW 62471/1972
          Son: Kenneth George McLENNAN died NSW 101440/1976

Sister: Margaret CASWELL married John LE CORNU in Stockton NSW 1033/1919
She died in Newcastle NSW 34894/1961

Brother: Ebborn J J CASWELL married Christina BROWN in Mayfield NSW 1556/1935
No death located as yet

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 May 09 23:49 BST (UK)
Thanks Tim,

On the brother's marriage it said that his birth year was 1910, this is 10 years out. Are these birth years estimated as Ebborn appears in the UK 1901 census aged 1 making his d.o.b at around 1900? - Sorry - My mistake.

Also, did Ebborn Jr. arrive in Aus with his dad in 1912 or his mum in 1913. An earlier post suggested he wasnt with his mum?

The name Josiah recurrs in this family. I am willing to bet that one of the J's is Josiah.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Sunday 10 May 09 11:45 BST (UK)
A couple of entertaining little snippets.

Douglas' mother Caroline Mary Sophie Beckel was born in Wiesbaden, Germany. I wonder if that was why they left England for Australia.

Douglas' aunts Amelia Alberta Caswell and Laura Maria Caswell were twins and both married on the same day.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Tuesday 12 May 09 21:50 BST (UK)
Just a note to let everyone know to keep an eye on the Worcester News.

I received and email from one of it's journalists who is doing a story on Douglas Caswell asking for a few more details about him.   After a flurry of emails, he eventually rang me and we discussed Caswell and Fromelles for quite some time.

The article should appear in the paper in the coming days and will be appealing to descendants or anyone with information about Caswell to come forward.

Cheers,
Tim L.

Hi Tim,

If your friendly journalist makes contact again I have a possible name he/she may wish to publish. There's an Ancestry tree with a Dora Caswell 1894-1981 and Lionel Caswell Harber 1927-1986 in it that are descendants of Douglas' uncle Earnest.

The tree owner is not contactable but they seem to have two lines containing living relatives that may still live in Worcester.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: mum mum on Thursday 14 May 09 05:32 BST (UK)
Hi all,
Douglas Caswells niece contacted me today. The family did know that he was buried at Fromelles and she had already seen a newspaper article about him in the Newcastle, NSW newspaper.
Maybe we are all gettin exited over nothing, I wonder how many of these  "missing" soldiers aren't missing at all.
It's fun looking for them though.

mum mum
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: fedelmar on Thursday 14 May 09 06:14 BST (UK)
MM ... it would mean that they haven't gotten in touch with us perhaps not even the army.

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Auimfo on Thursday 14 May 09 06:57 BST (UK)
MM,

Would very much appreciate if you ask her to contact Sandra and I through our website at www.fromelles.net

We're very keen to be in contact and talk to her about her Uncle.

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Auimfo on Friday 15 May 09 06:13 BST (UK)
Thanks again to everyone here and especially MM who found a descendant for Caswell.   We will be contacting them very soon.

Another one we can now mark as absolutely complete.

Great stuff Rootschat team.

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: fedelmar on Friday 15 May 09 06:14 BST (UK)
Thanks heaps you lot ... give each other a good pat on the back for a job well done :)

 :)

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Friday 15 May 09 06:20 BST (UK)
LEST WE FORGET
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: deborahmay on Thursday 20 August 09 11:06 BST (UK)
I am Douglas Caswell's great niece.  His sister, Nelly Gertrude was my paternal grandmother.  I live in Inverell in NSW, Australia, and have registered with the Australian Army Fromelles Project Group.  I have sent them a family tree as requested in the hope they are able to identify descendants of Douglas who will provide a DNA match for identification purposes if possible.  I was only able to provide details of my branch of the family as I know little of Douglas and Nelly's other brother and sister.
I am travelling to the UK in September and hope to visit Powick - are there any releatives still there??
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: fedelmar on Thursday 20 August 09 11:09 BST (UK)
Wonderful to hear from you :)

Would you like to visit the Fromelles Descendant Database at www.fromelles.net and send Tim an email.  I will alert him to your post.

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: majm on Thursday 20 August 09 12:42 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat Deborahmay,

There's quite a few RChatters who have contributed to the various threads for the Fromelles missing lads.  I support Sandra's posting, and encourage you to contact the Fromelles Descendant database.

Cheers,

Just Moi.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Thursday 20 August 09 18:38 BST (UK)
Hi Deborah,

Great to hear from you. :)

I did make contact with one possible relative related to the Powick Caswells. If you are interested in making contact let me know.

If you are interested I also have a tree on Ancestry just for him. Again, if you are interested in access to it let me know.

Do tell us if you hear that they identified Douglas please.


Paul (not connected to the Powick Caswells :) )
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: deborahmay on Thursday 20 August 09 21:58 BST (UK)
Yes please Paul - would be very interested in all those details.  I will certainly let you know if identification of Douglas is made.  Such a sad, sad story.  I also intend to visit Fromelles on my trip - one more way to feel a little closer to him.  I looked at the photos on the Fromelle website link given here - are there names attached?? We have no photos of Douglas unfortunately - what a bonus if one of them is him!!
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: fedelmar on Thursday 20 August 09 22:31 BST (UK)
Not sure if we have a photo of Caswell (that's Tim's job) I did send him a message last night but it was a bit late and he may not have seen it on Skype.  Will rattle his cage this morning.

Bright Blessings
Sandra
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Auimfo on Friday 21 August 09 06:18 BST (UK)
Hi Deborah,

Unfortunately, none of the photos on our website are of Douglas - his image is one that we are still searching for.

We have had contact with one other descendant via his sister Nelly and are very keen to be in contact with you also.   

You'll find our email address from the website at www fromelles net    I look forward to hearing from you. (This website and User are no longer contactable Aug 2015)

Cheers,
Tim L.
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Tjapaltjarri on Tuesday 08 September 09 11:24 BST (UK)
Hi DeborahMay, I saw you come in the chatroom (presumably by mistake) and left soon after, but not before I'd looked at your profile and seen your recent posting which alerted me to the Fromelles project.

The chatroom has a good track record of tracing living relatives and it is worth hanging around and watching for a bit to see how it works but there are people from all around the world doing searches for other people although who and when is a bit of a moveable feast.

best wishes,

Howdie (in the chatroom)
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: bronowens on Saturday 09 January 10 17:52 GMT (UK)
I am Douglas Caswell's great niece.  We have just forwarded DNA tests and are awaiting the results to confirm if Douglas's body is one of the 191 found.  His sister Nellie was my grandmother

If any one has a photo of him I would be over the moon to finally put a face to this multi dimensional figure.  I have been researching my family tree and know quite a bit  but am always on the lookout for more info

Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 09 January 10 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Bronowens, and welcome to RootsChat. :)

You may like to have a chat with deborahmay.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,379789.msg2701851.html#msg2701851

Do let us know when the results come in.

Paul
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: bronowens on Saturday 23 January 10 15:27 GMT (UK)
Hi All,
I am great Niece of Douglas.  His sister Nellie was my grandmother.  At present we are waiting to see if DNA matches with a body.  If it is confirmed he is one of the 191 bodies, he will be reburied and the commemoration of the new cemetery is being held in Fromelles on 19th July 2010.  The family here in Australia are desparate for a photo of him.  I have a photo of Nellie dated 1916 but no photo has emerged for Douglas.  I have traced back to Pete Beckel, Caroline Mary Sophie Caswell's father in Weisbaden Germany, and his father Ebborn Edwin's father James Caswell.

Can anyone help locating his photo (miracles might happen)

Bron
Title: Re: Fromelles missing - Douglas Caswell
Post by: laren on Thursday 06 August 15 02:56 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I'm currently writing a book about WW1 Stockton, NSW service people. I have Douglas on my list to research (which now I've found this thread will be alot easier!!).

I know that until very recently, there were Caswell's still living in Douglas St, Stockton, NSW as I went to high school with them (20 years ago). Presumably they are some sort of relation. I will see if I can touch base with them and see if they have any additional information.

Cheers,
Michelle