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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: MrBluesman on Tuesday 05 May 09 07:27 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have been looking for information about my Great Grandmother Minnie Magill. I have been unable to trace her birth which Census info says it was in Falkirk Scotland. I have also been unable to find her Marriage record to my Great Grandfather. From Census info one of her children was born prior to their meeting and the Child Agnes was born in Ireland. After a long search I have found Agnes's birth record in Belfast in 1890. I contacted the NI GRO and they have looked up the record and come back and said Agnes was the daughter of Minnie Magill no father was named on the certificate. I was give a date of birth and told she was born in a Belfast Workhouse. Can anyone offer me any information about workhouses? Or is there any records available to check?
Regards
Andrew
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Try this site : http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/homepage.html
OTTO
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Thanks for the info OTTO.
It appears that the Public Records office do have some Inmate Registers. I wonder if anyone is going there could they look up the info for me. The info I have is as follows. NB it is info on Minnie I need.
Agnes Magill was born in Belfast Workhouse 03/10/1890
Her mother was Minnie Magill
I am not sure When Minnie entered the Workhouse and how long she was there for I am guessing she entered while pregnant so should be some time in 1890 and I know she was in Stockport England by 1894
Any help anyone could give would be great
Regards
Andrew
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Hi MrBluesman
It's just a suggestion but if you email PRONI and give them the details they might respond to you directly. Just go to their website and you will find contact details. :)
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Hi again - In case you don't know I should have added that I believe the workhouse was at 51 Lisburn Road Belfast. I also think it was know as the Union Workhouse and later the Union Infirmary. The Belfast City Hospital is now on that site.
The is also Clifton Street but I think that was known as the poor-house (?). I'm not sure what the difference was. Good luck with your search.
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The workhouse was indeed at No 51 Lisburn Road Belfast. (and Poor House at the location mentioned by Bo).
1911 Census records for the Workhouse:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Lisburn_Road/155677/
People in institutions like prisons, army and police barracks, asylums and workhouses were often listed in the census only by their initials. If you think the person you seek was in an institution in 1911, first try the return for the institution, if you know it, as the ancillary information on the return (age, county of birth, previous occupation etc.) will help you to decide whether this is the right person. If you don't know the institution, or merely suspect that someone might have been in one, use their initials plus the age and sex boxes to narrow it down, eg T S, 25, female.
Here is a link to a map of Belfast, showing the Workhouse : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jeanmccarthy36/index2.html Scroll down the left hand column and click on "Belfast Maps" then click on " Click here for 1861 Belfast Map"
OTTO
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hello andrew, what was minnie's married name.
regards mary.
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Thanks for the replies everyone
Bo, I have contacted PRONI but at this moment not had anything from them. I will post if I do.
OTTO, She wasn't there in 1911 but again thanks for the info.
Mary, Minnie's married name was White but I have been unable to find a record of her marriage to William White. What I know is from UK 1901 and 1911 census is she was born in Falkirk Scotland but have been unable to trace a record of her birth. In 1901 the children in the census the eldest 2 are from Williams first marriage, then Agnes was born in Ireland and the rest were children of William and Minnie. Agnes was born in Belfast workhouse in 1890 but when Minnie went there I don't know but she was with William in 1894 in Stockport when their first child was born.
Regards
Andrew
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Have you checked scotlandspeople for a birth date for Minnie(Mary).
What age was she in the census records?
24 Dec 1892 William White married Mary Magill at Saint Marys Church of Ireland, in the Parish of Shankill, Civil District Belfast, County Antrim .
Details from emeraldancestors.
OTTO
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OTTO
I can't begin to tell you what that means to me I have looked so long for a marriage for these 2. Now everything I have says her name was Minnie and not Mary but it's the closest I have seen. Would I be able to get that marriage certificate from GroNI?
In the 1901 census she was 28 and her death certificate says she was 76 in 1950
I have checked Scotlands People and not had much luck I even contacted Falkirk Records who have been helpful but they couldn't find anything either.
Regards
Andrew and Thanks Again
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GRONI can supply certificate which will give fathers names and other info.
When you get that info, contact me by private message and I will look up her birth. (Mary Magill was a very popular name in Ireland, and there are 27 births between 1870 and 1875). In Ireland Minnie is apet name for Mary)
OTTO
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Andrew
I have sent you a PM with the information on the Marriage
John
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Thanks Everyone,
The marriage above does appear to be the right people Information I have been sent show information that matches extremely well with what I have on William already. I now have 2 addresses
97 Copeland Street
and
26 Louisa Street
Does anyone know anything about these properties?
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
Glad you got the marriage information you wanted :)
I don't know if this is of any help but if you go to the Lennon Wylie website you will get the Belfast Street Directories for various years. I believe Louisa street was in North Belfast near Oldpark Road whilst Copeland Street was in South Belfast. I don't know if the streets are still there.
If it's a general enquiry PRONI is very prompt but if specific it may take longer. If you haven't had a response after a week or two, drop another wee email and refer to the first - you may not get the info you want on line but you might get something, esp if you don't live locally and cannot visit the premises. :)
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There are links to some online directories under ANTRIM DIRECTORIES under ANTRIM RESOURCES:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369534.0.html
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Thanks for the info on the directories not really much there to help me but worth me remembering for future reference. I think I need the info from PRONI on the workhouse inmate registers. I am still puzzled as to why William went to Ireland whenthe main Hatting industry was in Stockport and Denton where he lived previously.
Andrew
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Hi Everyone, The directories didn't list William or Minnie that I could see they did however have a possibility of one of the witnesses at their wedding. I also noticed that there was a number of hatters in that area. It doesn't help me much but it does look like there was a hatting industry in Ireland at that time. I have had a reply back from PRONI not much help either they gave me a list of possible archives that they have for Workhouses but it was all info they had on their site and not the actual info in the records. So if anyone is going there and they have some free time then please get in touch and I will give you as much as I can.
Andrew
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Hi Mr Bluesman - sorry haven't been online for a while. I haven't been to PRONI for a while but if I'm heading up at any time I will give you a shout. I just can't promise when I will be going. I've never done research for the workhouse - do you need specific permission? When I was doing H & W research I had to get specific permission and just wondered if the same applied ???
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Bo,
All workhouse documentation is available except for that which falls within the 100 year rule. One exception is information which is outwith the 100 years but contained in a record book which has other information within the 100years. Eg You may find an inmate register covering the years1900 to 1915. You will need special permission to look at it.
Regards
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many thanks kingskerswell :)
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Hi Bo
Thanks for the offer and if you are heading to PRONI please give me a shout I would be interested in seeing what you find. I will put something together which contains all the info I have and then PM it to you.
Thanks Again
Andrew
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Hi Again
Does anyone have access to emeraldancestors that can check deaths for John Magill I think start around 1892 and come more recent?
Regards
Andrew
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Hi Andrew,
Only one listed as JACK in Co. Antrim.
16 Dec 1904 Larne 1st Presbyterian Church Jack Magill married Mary Mcgookin.
Regards
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Mr Bluesman,
My apologies I initially read your posting as Jack. However there are several Johns who may fit the bill. Do you have an address?.
Regards
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Hi Again
Does anyone have access to emeraldancestors that can check deaths for John Magill I think start around 1892 and come more recent?
Regards
Andrew
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Hi
The only info I have is off Minnie's Marriage certificate which is
Wife Firstname MARY
Wife Surname MAGILL
Wife Townland / Street 26 LOUISA ST
Wife Occupation
Wife Age 22
Wife Denomination Church of Ireland
Wife Marital Status Spinster (Previously unmarried)
Wife Father Firstname JOHN
Wife Father Surname MAGILL
Wife Father Occupation LABOURER
So don't know if the address was where he lived
Andrew
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The address on the marriage certificate is the address of the bride at the time of the marriage which may, or may not, be were she was born or where her family was living.
Irish marriage certificates do not list the religion of bride and groom and just because the father is listed it doesn't mean that he was still alive at the time of the marriage.
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Hi I was asked the question if I had an address this is the only address I have in Ireland I did say I didn't know if he lived there or not. I am also aware that he may have already died but tell me what other starting point I can use?
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Hi
You could try the Wills calendars at the Public Records Office (PRONI). It is available online at http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/will_calendars/wills_search.htm
Please note that the Wills calendars only have the names of people who made a Will or if relatives filed for Letters of Administration.
John
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Hi,
I have been looking for a record of my great grandmothers birth certificate for a long time now with little success. All the info I have say she was born in Scotland but I have never located the info. I have decided to try Northern Ireland for it as I know she had a child there in 1890 and she was married there to my great grandfather most of the details can be found in the posts attached. How do I go about tracing births in Northern Ireland? It's been sometime since I was last tracing births there.
Andrew
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Do you not already have the birth certificate?
Hi
I have been looking for information about my Great Grandmother Minnie Magill. I have been unable to trace her birth which Census info says it was in Falkirk Scotland. I have also been unable to find her Marriage record to my Great Grandfather. From Census info one of her children was born prior to their meeting and the Child Agnes was born in Ireland. After a long search I have found Agnes's birth record in Belfast in 1890. I contacted the NI GRO and they have looked up the record and come back and said Agnes was the daughter of Minnie Magill no father was named on the certificate. I was give a date of birth and told she was born in a Belfast Workhouse. Can anyone offer me any information about workhouses? Or is there any records available to check?
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Aghadowey
You have miss read the request the birth certificate he is after is for great grandmother Minnie. The one he has is for Agnes
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"In the 1901 census she was 28 and her death certificate says she was 76 in 1950"
Civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864 and the index is online so you can search for Minnie/Mary's birth to get the details needed to order the certificate-
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084
Her marriage (1892) should list her father's name and occupation (unless she was also illegitimate).
Have you tried searching for a Scottish birth certificate under Mary/Minnie and Magill/McGill, etc. just in case she really was born in Scotland?
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I have searched the Scottish Records and even experts have failed to find her birth in Scotland.
I know she gave birth to her Daughter in the Belfast Workhouse and the only other info I have is off her Marriage certificate. If you follow this feed you will see her fathers details from the marriage certificate.
Andrew