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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 14:52 BST (UK)

Title: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 14:52 BST (UK)
Any help appreciated as I just can't find a marriage for:
Joel Levi Abrahams to Sarah?
Must have been in Birmingham but I can't find it on Ancestry or by searching free bmd.
The 1911 census says they have been married for 30 years but nothing in 1880 - 81.
Roots chatters always come up trumps. ;D
Thanks
Tina
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 May 09 15:20 BST (UK)
Hi

Have you checked the 1881 census - were they married then?

Are they both English?  If not - could they have married in another country
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:22 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes,  in 1881 they were married and living with Joel's sister and her husband.



added
Joel was born in Bristol [ parents were from Holland and Poland} but the family moved to Birmingham not long after Joel was born as far as I can tell.
Sarah? I don't know I'm afraid.
Thanks
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 02 May 09 15:23 BST (UK)
Hi,

Did they have children?  Sarah's maiden name will be on the birth certificate.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:27 BST (UK)
Hi Nanny Jan
 Yes but I was just frustrated that I couldn't find a marriage.
Joel was my great grandfathers brother and I was really just trying to tie up some loose ends.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Tina
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 May 09 15:29 BST (UK)
To help answer the questions we are asking - here is the 1891 census for the family - living in Warwickshire - all b Birmingham except Joel

Joel Abrahams 31  b Bristol Somerset
Sarah   31  
Leah  9  
Montague  7  
Alfred 5
RG12 Piece2397 Folio 105 Page 18
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: nanny jan on Saturday 02 May 09 15:32 BST (UK)
Hi,

Going sideways from 1881 census:

Lewis Coral   MarQ 1870    Birmingham   6d    250   (FreeBMD marriages)

possible bride:  Hannah    Levy

Sarah's sister?


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 May 09 15:35 BST (UK)
Hi

Quite often freebmd shows an uneven number of male to female entries on the same page of a marriage transcript

Although there is no entry for Joel - there may be one for Sarah if we knew her maiden name

Any entry for Sarah can then be cross referred to match with an entry for Joel
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: Barbara F on Saturday 02 May 09 15:35 BST (UK)
Are you sure that Hannah in 1881 is Joel's sister?

Joel is shown as "Wife's brother in law" and Sarah is "Wife's sister"

There is this marriage

Mar 1870

Coral  Lewis    Birmingham  6d 250    
Hillner  Solomon     Birmingham  6d 250    
Levy  Hannah     Birmingham  6d 250    
MARKS  Sarah     Birmingham  6d 250

So maybe Sarah was a Levy?

Barbara



Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:39 BST (UK)
Hi
Thanks again
Hannah Corral is Hannah Levi Abrahams [Joels sister].
Joel and Sarahs first child Leah was born in Set qtr of 1881.
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:41 BST (UK)
1871 census has the Abrahams  family RG10 3097 47 39.
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 02 May 09 15:46 BST (UK)
You could read "The Marriage Records of England & Wales, A Comedy of Errors" in two volumes, by Michael Foster. The study reveals the infinite variety of ways in which the marriage records have suffered from errors and omissions.
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mikefost/

Stan
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 May 09 15:48 BST (UK)
Hi

I think the only way you are going to progress with finding their marriage is to buy a copy of one of their childrens birth certs.  As my reply above says:

Quote
Quite often freebmd shows an uneven number of male to female entries on the same page of a marriage transcript

Although there is no entry for Joel - there may be one for Sarah if we knew her maiden name
Any entry for Sarah can then be cross referred to match with an entry for Joel
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:51 BST (UK)
Thanks Stan
I haven't read it all but I get your drift.
I was just browsing the marriage indexes and thought I'd look up my own parents. I do have their certificate so it was just out of curiosity. Much to my surprise my dad is listed as Harold L but his name was Kenneth L. ??? ;D
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 15:55 BST (UK)
I agree CaroleW
I will do that.
I just thought maybe someone could see something that was staring me in the face.
Thank you all for helping.
Tina
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 02 May 09 16:02 BST (UK)
Hi

As Hannah married as Levi rather than Abrahams I checked in case Joel did the same but no joy - sorry!
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Saturday 02 May 09 17:02 BST (UK)
Cheers for looking. :)
Bit of a mystery. I suppose it's possible they never married, maybe Sarah wasn't Jewish. My great grandmother wasn't Jewish but she married Joel's brother at the registry office so you would think they would have married one way or another. Other members of the family show up on the Birmingham synagogue records but not Joel [ or my gr grandad]
Ah well I'm sure it will come to light one day.
Thanks again.
Tina
 
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: abrahams1 on Wednesday 15 February 12 16:53 GMT (UK)
Hi, Tina

I've only just caught this old thread. I'm been trying to find my gg grandfather, Levi and thanks to you i have.

I'm from Montague Abraham's line.

Thanks cousin
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Friday 17 February 12 15:09 GMT (UK)
Well I never!!!!
I am very pleased to have been of help.
A very interesting family with a few black sheep ( namely my great grandfather)
I haven't been on RC for ages and just happened to be checking my email.
If I can help you please get in touch. I would love to hear from you.
Tina  :D
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: abrahams1 on Friday 17 February 12 16:06 GMT (UK)
A few black sheep?! I like the sound of that.

I really could do with some help. I've only just started on the Abrahams line as i hit a dead end with the Taplin side of the family, so i really don't know much. Levi was a revelation!
I would love to know about your side of the family and i'll let you know as much as i can about Montague and his lot.
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: tinav40 on Friday 17 February 12 16:49 GMT (UK)
Hi again
They have been a very difficult family to research. Lots of name changes, on my side anyway. Am I right in thinking that your Montague was Joel's son? (therefore my grandads cousin.) I would love to help. I do have quite a bit of information on the family. It's my mum's side but she wasn't officially an Abrahams as her father changed his name ( that's a whole other story)
Tina
Title: Re: Help to find a marriage
Post by: abrahams1 on Saturday 18 February 12 17:30 GMT (UK)
Hi, Tina
Yes Montague was Joel's son. And Montague had Dennis, my grandad-my mom's dad.
I'll send you details of the branch next week.
Take care.
Dean