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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: iwonder_who on Thursday 30 April 09 15:05 BST (UK)

Title: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Thursday 30 April 09 15:05 BST (UK)
I am looking for information on Charles John DAVIS and Martha DAVIS.  It appears they had a son Albert John DAVIS in Orange in 1886.

Am looking to find them on travels after arrival in Australia in Queensland through to eventually settling in WA.  They had one other son Charles John Steven DAVIS somewhere along the way but am yet to find where.

Appreciate any help. 

Yvonne
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 01 May 09 04:17 BST (UK)
What information  do  you  have  for  Charles John Stephen Davis  ie  where  does his name appear etc.

There are no  census records for NSW  available to  the  public  except a couple of early  ones. 

If you  can  tell  us  when  they arrived in Qld  and when  they got to Was  it will all help in  the search

Jenn
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Friday 01 May 09 08:56 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn....

Ahhh I searched for ages to find something for NSW online and couldnt.  Funny how some states have some information and others dont.

OK am still searching for information on when they arrived in Australia...   I found a Charles and Martha on the Nowshera which arrived in Sept 1883 in Queensland which may be the same couple.   Again am not 100% sure they arrived there... but assuming they came to Qld first because on Charles John Steven Davis' death certificate it states he was born in Queensland, in Rockhampton.  Yet seach as I may I cannot find any birth there for him.

As far as the family know he only had one sibling Albert John Davis.   I just happened to think to try other states for his birth when I could also not find his birth in Queensland.  I do also remember my father saying when he was alive and when I moved from WA to NSW that some of his family used to lived here in NSW. 

We know his son Charles John Steven Davis married in Western Australia in 1908 to Elizabeth Hough

I have ordered a possible marriage certificate for Charles & Martha from England in Exeter in 1881 which would seem to tie up with the dates of immigration.   

I think that should mean time frame between arriving in Australia and an event we know occurred in WA .....between 1883-1908.   A census look up on WA records may be able to narrow that down.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: sparrett on Friday 01 May 09 09:49 BST (UK)
Hi
ALBERT John Stephen Davis says he was born in Orange in c. 1887 when he enlisted in 1915 for ww1.  He was a motor driver.
his father was C. Davis and was  next of kin and was living at Noresman WA.

This file is available to read on the National Archives website

Sue

http://www.naa.gov.au/

Edit:
By Sparrett to correct wrong typing
The man on the NAA script is as now shown..Albert John Stephen Davis.
Sorry for carelessness :o
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Friday 01 May 09 13:31 BST (UK)
Oh Sue thank you so much!  Each bit of informsation is helpful

Means a whole lot more just after ANZAC day too.... appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 01 May 09 21:53 BST (UK)
Albert's birth is on  the NSW online BDm's, sorry  I  didn't mention it before  just  thought you  had it,

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
reg no 32216/1886  DAVIS  ALBERT J  father CHARLES mother  MARTHA  at ORANGE

if you order  this  certificate it SHOULD  say  where and when  parents were married and any other issue.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
You can use a transciption agent who are a lot quicker and around $10 cheaper :D
Jenn 
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Saturday 02 May 09 01:46 BST (UK)
Thanks for that....

I already have the details for Albert ....  and already ordered that certificate,   it's his brother I am looking for!  Charles John Steven DAVIS  I cannot find his birth anywhere,   it says on his death certificate he was born in Queensland but no record can be found,  thats why I posted here in the hope someone might find details that I cant see.

Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: markwahl on Sunday 06 April 14 11:34 BST (UK)
____________________________________________
 :)
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:54 PM
To: 'Mark Wahlqvist'; 'Robert Newman'
Cc: 'Prof Mark L Wahlqvist'
Subject: Albert John Davis husband of Isabella Whalqvist & your immigrant Davis ancestors , Charles and Martha , who married in England in Exeter in 1881 and arrived in Queensland aboard the Nowshera


Dear Julie Newman
I think I may have found your immigrant Davis ancestors , Charles and Martha , who married in England in Exeter in 1881 and  arrived in Queensland aboard the Nowshera ,which arrived in  Queensland in Sept 1883.   They  had one son Charles John Steven DAVIS  in Rockhampton Queensland and your great grandfather, Albert John Davis,  in Orange in 1886. Eventually , they moved to Western Australia .
See below
Hope this helps
Prof Mark Wahlqvist AO MD FRACP
PS Albert John Davis married Isabella Whalqvist ,eldest daughter of my great uncle Frans Lorens Wahlqvist (1852 Trensum, Sweden-1925 Pyrmont Sydney) (known as Frank Whalqvist) . My grandfather , Axel Hugo Wahlqvist , was his younger brother.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 12:25 BST (UK)
In reply to the latest comment by markwahl....

Not sure your comments are correct. These may be different people.  My Albert John Stephen Davis married an Albertina Thompson née Albertina Dudenberg in Fremantle Western Australia 1920.  Albert  John Stephen Davis died in Beaconsfield fremantle 22nd October 1940 aged 53.

Please let me know should you discover otherwise
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Sunday 06 April 14 13:12 BST (UK)
"We know his son Charles John Steven Davis married in Western Australia in 1908 to Elizabeth Hough."

A tree on Ancestry shows a "Charles John Steven Davis" was married to a "Mary McAuliffe".

On the 1910 Kargoorlie census, there is a Charles, Charles John Stephen, Albert John Stephen and Mary Maud, all Davis, but no Elizabeth.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 13:31 BST (UK)
There are no surviving census for Australia in 1910. 

You are viewing the online electoral rolls on Ancestry.

You have named people living at Norseman, Western Australia in the division of Kalgoorlie, sub division Dundas.  There are no street addresses given and electoral rolls do not give relationships, only occupations.  No way of knowing if these people are related to each other.

Being listed on an electoral roll is no guarantee the people were living at that address on election day.

Cando
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 13:39 BST (UK)
Hello Cando!  Long time no see  :-)

Yes the marriage of Charles John Stephen DAVIS to Elizabeth Hough was tragically cut  very short, she died  in 1909, one year after their marriage.  He later married Mary Ellen McAuliffe in 1911.

Alas I can still find no record for his birth anywhere in Australia.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 06 April 14 13:45 BST (UK)
PS Albert John Davis married Isabella Whalqvist ,eldest daughter of my great uncle Frans Lorens Wahlqvist (1852 Trensum, Sweden-1925 Pyrmont Sydney) (known as Frank Whalqvist) . My grandfather , Axel Hugo Wahlqvist , was his younger brother.

Hi
If this happens to be the right family I have found the Wahlqvist family here in Sweden. If you haven't already got any info I can help out if you want.

Ian
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 06 April 14 13:46 BST (UK)


West Australian   4 Oct 1937

DAVIS.---On October 3, 1937,. at her residence, I Gold-street, South Fremantle, Maud Martha. widow of the late Charles John Davis, fond mother of Albert and the late Charles Davis, grandmother of ****** Daly (Douro-road, South Fremantle), mother-in-law of Mrs. A. E Davis (South Fremantle) and Mrs M. Davis (Kellerberrin, Western Australia); aged 73
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 13:49 BST (UK)
PS Albert John Davis married Isabella Whalqvist ,eldest daughter of my great uncle Frans Lorens Wahlqvist (1852 Trensum, Sweden-1925 Pyrmont Sydney) (known as Frank Whalqvist) . My grandfather , Axel Hugo Wahlqvist , was his younger brother.

Hi
If this happens to be the right family I have found the Wahlqvist family here in Sweden. If you haven't already got any info I can help out if you want.

Ian

I am quite certain there is no connection here.... 
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 13:54 BST (UK)


West Australian   4 Oct 1937

DAVIS.---On October 3, 1937,. at her residence, I Gold-street, South Fremantle, Maud Martha. widow of the late Charles John Davis, fond mother of Albert and the late Charles Davis, grandmother of ****** Daly (Douro-road, South Fremantle), mother-in-law of Mrs. A. E Davis (South Fremantle) and Mrs M. Davis (Kellerberrin, Western Australia); aged 73

Thank you Wivenhoe, I too found this newspaper entry.  The "...... Daly" grandchild was the daughter of  Charles John Stevens Davis & Elizabeth Hough's who was raised by her Grandparents after Elizabeth died.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 14:02 BST (UK)
I wonder if you purchased a transcription of Albert's birth certificate in NSW.  Previous births to the couple should be listed on his birth certificate along with the parents' ages, places of birth and place of marriage etc.

The price has increased since the first suggestion was made by Jenn earlier on the thread ;).
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription

Info on all Australian certs
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

I should have mentioned earlier that information on death certificates may be unreliable unless the informant has good knowledge and even then errors do occur.

Cando

Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 06 April 14 14:06 BST (UK)


West Australian 17 Mar 1921

DAVIS.-On March 8 at Grosvenor Hospital South. Fremantle,'-Charles, beloved, husband of. . Martha Davis , late of Norseman father of Charles and Albert and grandfather of Evelyn.. aged 68-years.:

Do you have death certificate for Maud Martha DAVIS d. 1937,  and for Charles John DAVIS d. 1921?. Do they have marriage details, parents' names, birthplace and residency history?.

Birth certificates for children of Charles John Steven DAVIS would have space for birthplace of father, Charles. This might be more accurate than his birthplace recorded on his death certificate.



Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 14:11 BST (UK)
Yes Cando I did grab that certificate but sadly the details listed under "previous issue" only list the entry "1 male, living"so don't offer much help
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 April 14 14:16 BST (UK)
What a nuisance.  There is the possibility that Charles birth was not registered and if it was then it did not reach the Brisbane Registry. 

Do you know their religion?  If so have you considered searching the parish records at Rockhampton.

Cando
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 14:19 BST (UK)


West Australian 17 Mar 1921

DAVIS.-On March 8 at Grosvenor Hospital South. Fremantle,'-Charles, beloved, husband of. . Martha Davis , late of Norseman father of Charles and Albert and grandfather of Evelyn.. aged 68-years.:

Do you have death certificate for Maud Martha DAVIS d. 1937,  and for Charles John DAVIS d. 1921?. Do they have marriage details, parents' names, birthplace and residency history?.

Birth certificates for children of Charles John Steven DAVIS would have space for birthplace of father, Charles. This might be more accurate than his birthplace recorded on his death certificate.

It is the birth of Charles John Steven Davis that I am searching for and the reason for the original post. I have the parents details and the sibling but can find no record of C J S Davis
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Sunday 06 April 14 14:22 BST (UK)
What a nuisance.  There is the possibility that Charles birth was not registered and if it was then it did not reach the Brisbane Registry. 

Do you know their religion?  If so have you considered searching the parish records at Rockhampton.

Cando

Thanks Cando,  I will look into that!
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 06 April 14 15:01 BST (UK)


Can you give the rest of the information on the birth certificate for Albert please.

Previous issue would be mother's history. Charles might be a child born to Martha before she met Charles snr.

The names on passenger list might not be them...Charles Davis is very ordinary name.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Sunday 06 April 14 15:05 BST (UK)
"No way of knowing if these people are related to each other."

"there is a"

I never claimed they were, but it is slightly coincidental that the fore, middle and surname(s) meet the matching criteria of the original search.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 06 April 14 22:24 BST (UK)
Just  adding  that Albert and  Albertina  are  buried  in  the same  grave.
FREMANTLE CEMETERY
Cemetery
ANGLICAN
Area or Denomination
MON A6
Section
0245
Jenn
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Monday 07 April 14 00:40 BST (UK)


Can you give the rest of the information on the birth certificate for Albert please.

Previous issue would be mother's history. Charles might be a child born to Martha before she met Charles snr.

The names on passenger list might not be them...Charles Davis is very ordinary name.

Birth Certificate from Orange NSW for Albert John DAVIS.
Fathers Name:     Charles Davis
Occupation:         Butcher
Age:                   31
Born:                   Exeter Devonshire England
Present or not:     Not present
Date of marriage:  28th November 1881
Place:                   Exeter England
Previous issue:      1, Male, living
Mothers Name:     Martha Steven
Age:                    22 yrs
Birthplace:           Torquay England

Witness  Dr Heinermann & Mrs Smith   16th November 1886 Orange
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Monday 07 April 14 00:44 BST (UK)
A son of Charles John Steven Davis recounted that his father was born in Queensland but had part of his education in England.  If anyone has access to shipping records it would be great to piece together the timeline since if he was born in Queensland, his brother was born in Orange and the family moved to Western Australia a timeline may be helpful. 

The father was not present at the birth of Albert John, I wonder if he was just working or in fact elsewhere. Oh the joys of building your family tree!
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: majm on Monday 07 April 14 01:08 BST (UK)
'NOT PRESENT' on NSW birth cert means BABY was not present at the Reg Office when the informant was registering the birth

Cheers JM

A son of Charles John Steven Davis recounted that his father was born in Queensland but had part of his education in England.  If anyone has access to shipping records it would be great to piece together the timeline since if he was born in Queensland, his brother was born in Orange and the family moved to Western Australia a timeline may be helpful. 

The father was not present at the birth of Albert John, I wonder if he was just working or in fact elsewhere. Oh the joys of building your family tree!
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: markwahl on Monday 07 April 14 03:20 BST (UK)
In reply to the latest comment by markwahl....

Not sure your comments are correct. These may be different people.  My Albert John Stephen Davis married an Albertina Thompson née Albertina Dudenberg in Fremantle Western Australia 1920.  Albert  John Stephen Davis died in Beaconsfield fremantle 22nd October 1940 aged 53.

Please let me know should you discover otherwise
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: markwahl on Monday 07 April 14 03:51 BST (UK)
We are clearly talking about 2 different Albert John Davis's . Were they both born in 1886? The one who married Isabella Wahlqvist ( erroneously  but persistently spelled Whalqvist by her immigrant Swedish  father)(1889-1981) died in 1964 - will revert on this point. To confuse matters, the first  child of Albert and Isabella was also Albert John Davisborn August 15th 1911 and died June 19th 1991
As for Charles John Steven Davis, could he have born on the journey to Australia of his parents Charles and Martha Davis, without a birth record in either Australia or Britain?



Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: iwonder_who on Monday 07 April 14 07:01 BST (UK)
Thanks Markwhal....  sorry there was no match with our similarly named Albert John Davis's!

You are correct in saying there is a possibility that Charles John Strvn Davis could have been born during the journey to Australia.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: FamilyFootprints on Monday 27 October 14 15:20 GMT (UK)
I live next door to Charles John Steven DAVIS's daughter (June Patricia).  I have been researching her tree some time and also have not been able to confirm his birth - yet all his other vitals seem to be intact.  I am happy to assist with NORRIS, DAVIS, MCAULIFFE, DAVY and COLLINS information from this end. 
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 27 October 14 20:59 GMT (UK)
HI  there  and welcome to roots chat 

Does  the daughter  know what  year her  father was  born?  thanks 
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Tuesday 28 October 14 01:10 GMT (UK)
Jen both his death notice and cemetery record indicate he was born c1884.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e2v/

http://www.australiancemeteries.com/wa/kellerberrin/kellerberrinafdata.htm
DAVIS Charles John Stevens  Ang 1,135  29 Oct 1936  52 years.

No headstone listed
http://www.ozburials.com/CemsWA/Kellerberrin/kellerberrin.htm

Cheers  ;D
Cando
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 28 October 14 02:46 GMT (UK)
Yes that's  is the case but sometime  the  death and cemetery  :Drecords  might not reflect the  right age  :D
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Tuesday 28 October 14 04:41 GMT (UK)
Agree  ;D

Yvonne what were Charles John's ages on both his marriage certificates please?  Could we also have the full dates of his marriages.

Surely a family member knows the date of his birthday ie day and month.

Charles says he was born Rockhampton so in the absence of any registration you may have to accept that you will find nothing more.  In a number of colonies [ie before Federation] births not registered within a prescribed period incurred fines.

Did you follow up the possibility of baptism record at Rockhampton?
 
You wrote that Charles DAVIS and Martha STEVENS married in Dec qtr 1881 and arrived Qld 14 Sep 1883. Charles Jnr could not have been born on board as he would have been 53 years of age in Oct 1936 when he died.  Charles was born late [after Oct] 1883 or before Oct 1884 at Rockhampton with his brother's birth 21 Oct 1886 in Orange NSW.

It would appear that Martha was also known as Mary Maud.

Are you convinced that Charles Jnr was educated in England?  I cannot see a UK outgoing passenger record for a Charles DAVIS born c1884 to Western Australia arriving prior to his first marriage.

Cheers :)
Cando
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: FamilyFootprints on Tuesday 28 October 14 05:08 GMT (UK)
HI  there  and welcome to roots chat 

Does  the daughter  know what  year her  father was  born?  thanks

Apologies for previous.   ::)
Hi tropicalj, the daughters birth certificate indicates that her father was born in Rockhampton, OLD and that he was 46 years old at the date of her birth  - indicating that he was born in circa 1885.  The daughter is away at the moment but I will try and get a definitive birthday for you.
Title: Re: Electoral roll/census info NSW please - DAVIS
Post by: cando on Tuesday 28 October 14 05:19 GMT (UK)
We are not permitted to post information about living people on rootschat.  Would you please remove the dau's name and her year of birth please.

Cheers
Cando