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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: Postlethwaite on Thursday 30 April 09 14:26 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information regarding my Grandfather Joe Wade. All I know is that he owned the Derwent Lodge in Portinscale, near Keswick, Cumberland with his first wife in about 1920. He seperated from his wife and bought High Snab Farm, in the Newlands Valley
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Hi Postlethwaite
Welcome to Rootschat!
I'm not sure what you've searched.
I tried searchibg the 1911 census online for Joseph Wade in Cumberland. There are only twpo. one in the Penrith Registration district and one in the Cockermouth Registration district,
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Both of the [laces you gave would be registered under Cockermouth.
I then deleted "joseph" and just searched for Wade, but put "Joseph Wade" under the "Others in hoesehold" box.
I got half a dozen names including two tinies. All under Cockermouth.
As well as Joe there are listed
Annie 3
Christiana W 21
Eleanor 28
John 6m
Jonathan R 29
Joseph W 27
All Wade people of other surnames would not show up by this method.
1911 isn't cheap to take loads off, and like most other people I've run out of credits.but for a special entry such as this, if this were my GrandfatherI would sign up and pay my £6.96 minimum to see the original with a few credits left. Transcripts cost less but on an occasion such as this I would go for the original.
It gives all names in the household, ages, relationships to head, fulladdress, occupations and also how long a couple have been in a current marriage and how many children born, alive and deceased.
I'll see what else I see.
I hope this helps. Let us know how you get on
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Emms,
Thanks for the assistance.
After contacting family members over the weekend I have found out that my Grand Father, Joe Wade was probably born in Uppingham, Cleveland in 1884 and had a sister who was known as Annie. The only other information I was able to glean was that his wifes name was Mercia
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Hi again.
Thank you for the feedback.
I'll see what else I can find.
I did look on Lancashire bmd - see the link.
The marriage was at St Saviour, Bamber Bridge, Preston. I can't see it listed as an RC church in Preston, and on this index they usually say, "Registrar attended"
I'll look again later.
There's more info to go at. You could try searching 1911 with a birth place, Uppingham and see who else is in the household.
Best wishes
Emmes
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi
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PS It might be worth a mention for this part of the query on the Lancashire board.
Emms
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Only one Joseph Wade born Uppingham in 1911 census, he's in Penrith aged 25 but going by the index, not with any other family members surnamed Wade. As Emms says, it may be worth looking at the full 1911 image to see his occupation
Uppingham is in Rutland. There are two possible birth registrations for him:
Mar 1884 Uppingham 7a 329 WADE Joseph Gladstone
Births Mar 1885 Uppingham 7a 349 WADE Joseph
In 1901 there is this family, but you would need his marriage cert to confirm father's name:
RG13 Piece 3016 Folio 42 Page 5
North Street, Uppingham
WADE
Samuel S 56 Wheelwright Gaulby, Leicestershire
Mary A 52 Uppingham Rutland
Arthur 25 Wheelwright Ilston Lancs
Mary E 23 Dressmaker Uppingham
Thomas S 22 Gardener (domestic) "
Joseph 17 House servant (gentleman's house) Uppingham
You say you can't find Joe's death, have you looked through the full GRO index for it, as freebmd isn't fully transcribed after about 1920
Barbara
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Thanks Barbara,
There does not appear to be an Annie on that census, Annie was Joe's sister.
I am just grasping at straws.
Thanks anyway.
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Of the two Uppingham birth registrations, the 1901 census I gave is for Joseph G Wade, which is how he's listed in 1891 census
The other Joseph may be this one, with Elizabeth A perhaps being sister Annie? (birth reg gives Elizabeth Ann) - or maybe his sister was Mercy??:
1891 RG12 Piece 2577 Folio 14 Page 20
Billinghay, Lincolnshire
WADE
Joseph 38 Cooper Uppingham Rutland
Kezia? 44 Helpringham Lincs
Elizabeth A 12 Scholar Uppingham Rutland
John J 9 " "
Joseph 6 " "
Mercy 4 Billinghay Lincs
Fanny BAVIN 15 General Servant domestic Billinghay
Barbara
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edited.
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Hi again
Interesting. I went for the Cockermouth registration 1911 which had an Annie on, but this looks good, too, so I wonder if the two 1911 entries are related?
Emms
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Hi Free bmd has:
Hi Sorry Echneps, just reread and you had what was up there. I was to busy looking at the census you'd put up and didn't go back to the rest!!
Best wishes
Emms
Edited.
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Hello,
Thanks for your help but I wish i had never started this now, its all so confusing.
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Hello Postlethwaite,
We're not trying to confuse you, I'm sure it must be difficult for you when you don't have a lot of the earlier information to go on, but you may have to do a bit more digging for yourself before we can help further. :)
You say you are looking for his birth and death, so why not start with them, can you say where have you already looked? (just to save others looking in the same places)
Or you could begin with the marriage certificate that looks likely for him (Emms gave the reference earlier) and also if you have a look for him in the 1911 census, spending a few credits on that may well be worthwhile giving you a bit more information about him.
What about looking at trade directories for the Keswick/Braithwaite areas to see if he is listed as hotel owner or fishmonger?
Kind regards,
Barbara :)
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Looking at the 1914 Cumberland and Westmorland Directory at http://www.historicaldirectories.org
there was a
Joseph WADE, fishmonger at Sands, Appleby
The Sands is a road in Appleby http://tinyurl.com/crx2kz
Looking now at FreeBMD, there was a 1912 marriage to an Annie MOORCROFT
Marriages Jun 1912
MOORCROFT Annie (Wade) E.Ward 10b 1357
WADE Joseph (Moorcroft) E.Ward 10b 1357
and two daughters
Births Jun 1913
WADE Doris (Moorcroft) E.Ward 10b 1470
Births Sep 1914
WADE Vera (Moorcroft) E.Ward 10b 1485
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Geoff, are you sure we were not twins separated at birth? I've just spent the last hour on historicals and can confirm that the Derwent Lodge Hotel did not exist in 1914. There is now a Derwent Lodge hotel in portinscale but in 1914 it was the Derwentwater hotel run by Tom Clarke Stanley and the Derwent Lodge seems to have been a vicarage or a seminary as it was occupied by lots of reverends (none named Joe Wade). Portinscale is not now well known as it was byepassed in the 50's/60's but before that it was a nightmare. Every bit of road transport from west dumbria (lorries, buses, coaches, cars , vans but especially the lorries to the burgeoning chemical industry in Whitehaven) had to go through it. And right outside a hotel/pub there was a more than right angle bend that most large vehicles and even smaller vehicues with poor drivers (and there were a lot of them in the 50's- my father included) had to to do 3or 4 point turns to get round. I'm not saying this was the derwentlodge but it could well have been. Then there was a wartime type bridge (Bailey?) over the river (Derwent/Greta) with a huge slope and automatic traffic lights. Father never managed it in less than 3 attempts and most other drivers even the professionals frequently took more. I hated that bridge.
bob
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Hi Bob
I remember the Bailey bridge at Portinscale and the railway along the edge of Bass Lake (now the eastbound carriageway of the A66). There was a BR Camping Coach in the siding at Bassenthwaite station.
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1891 census
Long Marton, Appleby
Joseph MOORCROFT 50 Railway Station Master, Warwicks Coundon
Emma 43 Yorks Ilkley
William 14 Coal Selling
Annie 11
Arthur 6m
Kids born Long Marton.
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Hi
I remember the railway, too. We went on there quite a bit. Shame it's gone - and the next section from Keswick to Penrith! I guess Joe's guests may well have used it!
Best wishes
Emms
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Ooh, wel done Goeffe!
How would we manage without you on the Cumberland board? Now where's the marriage?
Emms
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Ooh, That's a blow!
Probably too late, but I was going to look on the sites on Patterdale etc which Inthought had a link to East Ward - and they've all gone - they'd been on msn groups! Closed down, as well as my Geocities going! Anyone know where they've gone?
Emms
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Hello all,
Barbara, Sorry I did not mean you were confusing me, I meant that I was confused.
No one in the family knows much about Joe Wade.
Old school Friends of my mother informed her that he was born in Rutland about 1884, Joe had been a fishmonger in and around Keswick.
I have looked at all Census returns from 1841 - 1901, free bmd, ancestry.co.uk and on find my past all to no avail.
I was just wondering if there was anyone such as Geoff and/or Bob Graham who seem to know the area knew anything about Joe Wade.
Thanks
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Hi Allan
I know wht you mean about getting confused. I frequently get confused whith my family history - and confuse other people.
I'm sorry we haven't got any further -mit's a bit slower being after the censuses and later than most of the church records online. We'll get there though!
If he was around as late as the sixties, there may be a telephone book entry for him. If noone's done it first, I'll have a look in our library. If there is, we can see when the entry disappears and hopefully narrow down the date. There are some on Ancestry too, but ours has run out.
I'll have a look in some more local directories too.
Have you seen the full GRO index? Free bmd finishes too early. Again, it's on Ancestry, but most libraries have it if you can get there.
Best wishes
Emms
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1925 directory
Joseph WADE, High Snab, Newlands, Keswick
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That's him Geoff thanks
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Barbara, Sorry I did not mean you were confusing me, I meant that I was confused.
Hi Allan, think I phrased that wrongly, we all get a bit confused at some point, I just hoped we weren't confusing you too! :)
Have just searched the full deaths index, from 1951-1960 inc, and assuming he died in the Keswick area, no luck. Will try earlier and later
Barbara :-\
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Hi Alan
Another little thought.
It may be worth emailing Keswick Library to see what they have. There will probably be adverts in the Keswick papers among other things and I don't know if they have any indexes, or copies of the local registers.
I can't get to the record office at the moment or I'd look for you.
It's a bit like doing our own families. I know Keswick well, and a few years ago I'd have known someone who knew the answers, but just a few years too late!
Best wishes
Emms
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Is this a possibility for his death registration I wonder? (If only I'd started at 1950 instead of 1951!)
March Qu 1950 Cockermouth 1a 103
Joseph WADE aged 65
If you'd like to check it for any known details with the local register office before buying the certificate: The Register Office, Fairfield, Station Road, Cockermouth, CA13 9PT. Tel: 01900 325960
E-mail: cockermouth.registeroffice [at] cumbriacc.gov.uk
or or do the same at the GRO - the online GRO site for certificate ordering:
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ there's a part of the form where you can ask them to check known details, they charge £3 for this, included in the cost of the cert if correct.
The same goes for the Uppingham birth registrations given earlier, and the marriages
Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara, Allan
Isn't that always the way, Barbara. Always the one you just missed!
So he may well have been in the Braithwaite area. That would have been registered as Cockermouth.
Yes, if you could run to the odd certificate, that would help, and there may be an announcement in the Keswick Reminder, or whatever it was at the time.
If I get to the library before you get any more on the death though, I'll look in The Cumberland Pacquet deaths for that quarter. It won't be the next couple of days though..
Emms
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There's talk of reinstating the railway from Penrith but only as far as Keswick so we won't ever have the joy of peering out the window looking for Bishops Rock just after Portinscale. Trouble is I think it might remain just that - talk.
bob
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Hi all
Thanks everyone you are so helpful. I am sure that is him Barbara. I have a photograph of Joe with my aunt and my mother said she (auntie) was about 10 when it was taken, she was born in 1941 and I was born in 1958 and I know Joe died in that period, that probably makes the photo one of the last taken of him.
Bob, they have been talking about reinstating the Keswick to Penrith railway line for decades and as you say it will probably just remain talk, damn Beeching. Some of my earliest childhood memories are of the Braithwaite to Keswick railway journey, catching the train from my home in Braithwaite and being met at Keswick by my paternal grand father. One of my schoolfriends fathers (Harvey Bowe) was a signalman and I remember pulling the heavy levers in the signal box to change the signals. I lived in Braithwaite from birth to about 7 years old, 'halcyon days'.
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Apologies,
Joe Wade and his wife owned Swinside Lodge not the Derwent Lodge, Swinside Lodge was in the Newlands Valley
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Hello and thank you all for your help, especially Emms, Barbara, Bob and Geoff. Unfortunately I have had to remove some info regarding the Wade family to protect certain interests. However, I really do want to thank you for helping me to find out about my Grandfather Inow have his date of birth, his date of death, where he lived and what he did for a living (well up until 1911). I have found other people researching my Grandfather and can now trace his family back to 1700.
Incidentally the latest census had him living in Penrith working as a fishmongers assistant.
Any ideas how I can trace him after 1911? I know he bought the Swinside Lodge, Newlands Valley with an inheritance from his father after 1919.
Thanks again.
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Hi Allan
Thank you for explaining. Looks like we've still quite a bit to go on though.
Fancy him being a fishmonger in Penrith too!
How about looking for a will, if this really was an inheritance?
Cumbria record office have them all on film and an index. I can't get up at the moment, but you could try emailing them.
They're also at York - I'll look for an address, but I think they may be on line now.
Also, have you checked if there's a WW1 entry on National Archives?
There will be electoral registers in the record office , possibly Keswick library.
Best wishes
Emms
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Harvey Bowe Is my Grandfather :D :D