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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Hunter51 on Monday 27 April 09 02:06 BST (UK)

Title: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Monday 27 April 09 02:06 BST (UK)
I have the marriage certificate for Thomas Hudson b1828 to Mary Urwin b about 1829 the marrage was Aug 5 1848 Trinity church Pelton Co Durham, his father was William Hudson and her father is down as Christopher Hall witnesses Issac Smith and Thomas Carter, thay all seem to be miners can any one find out who Christopher or William were married to don't know there date of birth, i cant seem to get any further back than these two i have all info on Thomas Hudson. Thanks..Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Monday 27 April 09 12:32 BST (UK)
Hi Alan

Could you give a bit more information please? 

Are they the ones living in Tanfield in 1861 with children Margaret, James and Christopher?

Do you know their places of birth from a census?

Thanks

Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Monday 27 April 09 13:35 BST (UK)
Hi Ashley yes thay did live in Tanfield it was a mining family then moved to Birtley Margaret married Allan Lee and went to live in Yorkshire she came back around 1896 and married a John Witts in 1903.
i do have the census for a Christopher Urwin but i don't know if it is him
HO107  PIECE 824  BOOK 5 FOLIO 40  PAGE 5
but can't find a lead on William Hudson or even were Thomas was Born there is a Thomas born in Long Benton but don't know if it him.
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 14:26 BST (UK)
Hi Allan,

Just want to let you know I and others are working on this ;D
Sometimes it takes a while to check thru census etc.

Thomas HUDSON pretty much is consistant with his age and place of birth as Newcastle, Northumberland.

Mary URWIN/HUDSON as 1829, Benwell, Northumberland
Some of the children are born NBL and some Durham

Will get back to you later, hopefully with some info :)

trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 14:39 BST (UK)

There are only 17 deaths for a Christopher Urwin on Freebmd for all of England.
Most you can rule out as too young to be the Father of Mary and some are children.

These are the 2 I think most likely possibilities;

Christopher URWIN, age 83, June 1885, Morpeth, 10b 251
                   
Christ. URWIN age 87, Dec. 1870, Chester le Street,10a 286

Will now try and track him down ;)
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Monday 27 April 09 14:41 BST (UK)
Thanks Trish and good luck, Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Monday 27 April 09 14:46 BST (UK)
HI Alan

On the IGI there is a baptism for  Mary Urwin to Christopher and Mary bap 24 Jun 1829 - I would guess at NCL St John - it looks like there were two previous Marys to that couple in 1825 and 1817.

That would suggest that Christopher and Mary are the ones who were in NCL St John in 1841,  Longbenton in 1851 and in Harraton, Durham in 1861, which is in Chester-le-Street Registration district!

Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 15:03 BST (UK)

Well done Ashley :) Beat me too it.

Cheers,
Trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: 2zpool on Monday 27 April 09 15:03 BST (UK)
There's good news and bad news--first the good news--I found marriage of Christopher Urwin to a Mary--bad news--there are three of them

Birtley NBL Christopher Urwin to Mary Colwell 30 May 1813
Tynemouth Christopher Urwin to Mary Robinson 23 Apr 1814
NCL St John Christopher Urwin to Mary Blakeburn 2 June 1823

Janis
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 15:13 BST (UK)
There are also baptisms of John 1837 and Christopher 1833.

Could the children on 1841 census be their grandchildren?or Mary at least?

trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 15:31 BST (UK)
OK I take that back, having a meno............ moment.

Possible baptism for Christopher URWIN;

12 February 1786, Birtley, Northumberland
Parents James and Mary

1841 Census has son James 15, son of Christopher and Mary so possible connection ;)
And pretty close to death of Christopher, Chester le Street, aged 87, born circa. 1783

Trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 15:47 BST (UK)
Marriage on IGI, only one for a James to a Mary , calculated by baptisms of children of a James and Mary 1770's to 1780's (including Christopher 1786)

James URWIN
Mary MILBURN
23 June 1771
Birtley, Northumberland ( extracted)

 
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 27 April 09 16:56 BST (UK)
OK PUT EVERYTHING ON HOLD ::) ::)

We have 2 Christopher Urwins with wives Mary in 1841 Census, Benwell, Northumberland, both with daughters Mary :P

One Christopher born c 1790 and one 1802.

The baptisms I found of John 1837 and Christopher 1837 probably belong to this couple.

Census 1841
Benwell,St John
Northumberland     HO/107/824/5

Christopher URWIN, 39, pitman, born in county- yes (1801)
Mary, 40, no                                                               (1800)
Mary, 15, yes                                                              (1826)
Thomas, 11, pitman, yes                                             (1830)
Christopher, 8, yes                                                      ( 1833)
John, 5, yes                                                                 (1836)
Robert, 2, yes                                                              (1839)

Birth;

Robert URWIN
March 1839
Newcastle on Tyne
25 358


So is this the Christopher and Mary BLACKBURN married 1823?And the Mary (daughter) baptised 1829?, with age rounded up?


2ND one;

1841 Census
Benwell, St John, Northumberland     HO107/824/5 St John

Christopher, 50, coalminer, (1791)                                                                 
Mary,50                                                               (1791)
James, 15,                                                           (1826)
Ann, 15                                                                 (1826)
Mary, 10                                                                (1831)

This is probably the couple from 1813/14 marriage  plus other children probably born to this couple who have left home by 1841 Census.

Will look at all this again tomorrow, unless any one wants to try and sort it out later as it is 2.00 am here ::)

Cheers,
Trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Tuesday 28 April 09 11:46 BST (UK)
Thanks to you three Trish -  Ashley  & Janis i am sitting trying to put all this together.
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Lady Di on Tuesday 28 April 09 13:36 BST (UK)
Census 1841
Benwell,St John
Northumberland     HO/107/824/5

Christopher URWIN, 39, pitman, born in county- yes (1801)
Mary, 40, no                                                               (1800)
Mary, 15, yes                                                              (1826)
Thomas, 11, pitman, yes                                             (1830)
Christopher, 8, yes                                                      ( 1833)
John, 5, yes                                                                 (1836)
Robert, 2, yes                                                              (1839)

Cheers,
Trish


I think this family belongs to my OH  ;D
OH is totally uninterested in family history so I haven't done much with this lot so probably can't be much help but am very interested to see what Christopher Urwin's wife's surname actually was as I have a ? ? ? there.

I have bits and pieces that may be useful but not much I'm afraid.

Good luck Alan

Di
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Lady Di on Tuesday 28 April 09 13:54 BST (UK)
Just checked a couple of things that I have-

I believe that Christopher and Mary were probably married c. 1825 +/- (which means that the Mary Blackburn in 1823 has my vote)
The children I had listed for Christopher and Mary were Thomas 1831, Christopher, John and Robert but wasn't aware that there was a Mary as well.  ::)

The other two marriages in 1813/14 were too early to belong to this couple. Christopher was born c. 1802 so doubt he was married at age 11 or 12  ;D

I have the death of Christopher Urwin as:
Christopher URWIN, age 83, June 1885, Morpeth, 10b 251

His wife Mary died June qtr 1868, Morpeth aged 67

Christopher remarried March qtr 1869 to Elizabeth Farish

Please don't take my word for this - I have no certs or sources and only some very old notes.  ::)

Di

Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Tuesday 28 April 09 14:01 BST (UK)
If it is the Christopher born 1802 then you could order up the birth certificate for the youngest son Robert born 1839 and that would provide it.

I am interested in the fact that there are three baptisms for a Mary Urwin in NCL St John to, apparently, the same parents.  It may be worth checking to see if there are burials for the first two.  If there are then they may be the same couple and that would make them the older option rather than the younger.

It may also be worth following the lines of any other children for the older couple - they may have moved to Durham to be close to family - certainly Mary was there, if she is their daughter.

Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 28 April 09 15:07 BST (UK)


Christopher URWIN
Baptised ,20 June 1802
Born, 20 May 1802
Tynemouth, Northumberland
Parents, Thomas Urwin and Jane MITCALFE
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Lady Di on Wednesday 29 April 09 09:55 BST (UK)
Trish - that baptism for Christopher Urwin looks like the one I had searched high and low for. I had a theory that Thomas Urwin and Jane Mitcalfe may have been the parents but couldn't find the baptism or birth record.

Where did you find it? I'm sure that I checked the IGI  :-\

I also have Thomas Urwin's parents as Christopher Urwin and Jane Hewson (married 10.05.1772 Tynemouth).

And this Christopher's parents as Thomas Urwin & Eleanor Harbottle (married 05.05.1743).

I have no idea how accurate these questimates/theories are but it may be a line of inquiry for Alan to check.

Di
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Wednesday 29 April 09 11:17 BST (UK)
I am sitting he reading all this info, I think you lady's are GREAT the way you work all these names and dates out is beyond me this is the best site many thanks to all....Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Wednesday 29 April 09 12:54 BST (UK)
I still think it is worth researching the older couple further to eliminate them totally.

Cheers

Ashley

(PS I'm a bloke!)
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Wednesday 29 April 09 13:06 BST (UK)
ooops sorry Ashley.
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 29 April 09 16:17 BST (UK)
Hi Di,
I am glad that I found the baptism you were looking for :)
It was in England and Wales Christening Records 1538-1837. Pretty sure there are some other Urwins also.

Hi Ashley,
I will look at the older couple tomorrow and see what I can find.

Hi Alan,
It is really great to be appreciated :) I am sure Di, Ashley and I love researching for the fun of the chase ;) but some people do not seem to realise how much time we put into it!

All the best,
Trish


Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Wednesday 29 April 09 18:22 BST (UK)
It's an easy mistake!

And yes Trish - it IS fun!
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Wednesday 29 April 09 18:54 BST (UK)
There's one thing i under stand on the marriage certificate of Thomas Hudson & Mary Urwin 1848 her father is down as Christopher Hall why wood that be.
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Lady Di on Thursday 30 April 09 11:17 BST (UK)
Oops - that does throw a spanner in the works Alan.

My apologies for not reading your original question correctly  :-[

Any chance that the marriage certificate states that Mary Urwin was a widow with a previous name of Hall? Guess it wont be that easy!!

Next option is that Mary Urwin was the daughter Mr and Mrs Urwin, her father died and mother remarried a Christopher Hall.

The Christopher and Mary Urwin that Trish found in 1841 certainly fit the bill - except their name is Urwin, not HILL  :(

Are there any other items of info on the marriage cert that may help? - even things that you are unable to read may be useful.

By the way, what were the names of Mary and Thomas Hudson's children?


Di
PS - Maybe the marriage cert is wrong and the Hall was meant to be Urwin but someone was just having a bad day when they wrote it  ;D ;D  (getting desperate, aren't I  ::)  )


Trish - thanks for reminding me about the England and Wales Christening records. I keep forgetting to check those  ::)


Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Thursday 30 April 09 11:30 BST (UK)
The other option is that she was illegitimate, and that while she had the name Urwin from her mother, she knew that her father was Christopher Hall.  If she was a widow that would also work.

I had one recently in Wigan where I could not find the father of the bride, only her mother who claimed to be a widow, and when I got it Rosetta Hart had marked her father as Thomas Rawlinson, Weaver, so she was clearly illegitimate but knew her father (who was already married!)

Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 30 April 09 12:38 BST (UK)
Marriages;
September 1846
Newcastle Tyne
25 342
Mary HALL
On same page John URWIN

Plenty of possible deaths for a John Urwin 1846-1848

Trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Thursday 30 April 09 12:45 BST (UK)
Been on to registrar to check marriage certificate thay say it is Christopher Hall he is going to look at the church records and get back to me,
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Thursday 30 April 09 14:42 BST (UK)
I've been through the baptisms at NCL St John from 1828 to 1830 and there are very few Hall baptisms and none of them to Christopher.  No Mary Urwins either.

Do you think she could have been baptised in St Nicholas instead??


Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Thursday 30 April 09 19:06 BST (UK)
No luck from the Durham registrars thay say the certificate is right.
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 01 May 09 15:13 BST (UK)

Just letting you know I am still going to look at this in depth :)

Cheers,
Trish
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Friday 01 May 09 16:06 BST (UK)
Thank's Trish i thought i had scared every one off
Alan....
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Friday 01 May 09 16:57 BST (UK)
Hi Alan

It may be worth trawling through the baptisms for NCL St Andrew and St Nicholas for those few years around Mary's birth and seeing if there is a Hall or Urwin birth.  In Benwell they should have gone to NCL St John but that does not mean that they would if they had a family connection to another local parish.

You can find them on http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch - you will have to register if you have not already.

Cheers

Ashley
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Friday 01 May 09 19:47 BST (UK)
Thank's Ashley I will do that.
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Saturday 15 August 09 16:39 BST (UK)
New info on this I found out that Mary Urwin who married Thomas Hudson in 1848 was married before she was Mary Hall and married John Hall in 1846 so the Thomas & Mary marriage certificate is correct having Christopher Hall as Mary's father.
any help with this would be appreciated.
Alan...
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: JosiahS on Saturday 15 August 09 18:04 BST (UK)
Do you mean that she married John Urwin in 1846?
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Saturday 15 August 09 18:09 BST (UK)
sorry Yes that should be John Urwin, Third quarter Newcastle. :-[
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: glasgowlady on Sunday 24 January 10 16:25 GMT (UK)
I am interested in the marriage of Mary Hall and John Urwin - do you by any chance have the certificate and/or know what John's occupation was or father was called?

Chris
Title: Re: Urwin
Post by: Hunter51 on Sunday 24 January 10 18:49 GMT (UK)
Thomas Hudson married Mary Urwin and when I sent for the Marrage cert her father was down as Christopher Hall Urwin so thinking she might have been married before I searched for her marrage. but did not find any link so I think the name Hall on the cert is a mistake it's a mystery sorry.
Alan...