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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: net64 on Sunday 26 April 09 22:11 BST (UK)
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Hi all, hoping that some more experienced RC might be able to help me.
I started researching my fathers side of the family.I have done very well but I have got stuck trying to find my gr gr gr gr grandfather Patrick Carroll in the census for 1861, 1871 and 1881 :(.
I think that he came from Ireland as his son James was born there as it says so on his census' and Patrick had other sons born in Glasgow in 1856 and circa 1860.
I have his wife Jane's death cert for 1870 and Patricks for 1882 but why can I not find him in any of the census'?
I want at least one to confirm that he came from Ireland. Any one got any ideas or can tell me something that I might have missed?
I would appreciate any help or am I flogging a dead horse at this stage!
Thanks Annette
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Hi Annette
I have Carrolls (from somewhere? in Ireland) who were mainly Rutherglen based - coal miners.
Patrick Carroll - tho may not be same one as yours is my gtx3 grandpa. (married to Briget McGurk). His son James being my gt gt who also had a son called Patrick and erm 12 more kids.
Would love to compare notes if yours sound in any way connected.
Ann :)
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Hi Ann sorry my Patrick was married to Jane Flannigan and settled in Glasgow around Gorbals and then Shettleston.
Sorry I cant help you! Good luck in your search
Annette
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Hi Annette
Thanks and best wishes to you to in your Carroll research too. If I find anything interesting I'll let you know because this family is one I need to do a lot more on. I think I saw the Irish link and thought Oh well that's that then - have pads of Irish elsewhere in my tree.
I do know another chatter's other half (caroclay) also is researching Carrolls in Lanarkshire so might be worth contacting her. Like ours Irish connection but you never know in this game!
Your guys in Shettleston aren't that far away from where mine were in Rutherglen/Cambuslang so who knows!
Happy searching!
Ann
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I have a John Carroll married 1858 in Newtonards to Agnes Jane Thomson ( daughter of Robert Thomson and Agnes Campbell). Family subsequently moved to Dalry in Ayrshire .Known children names James( married an Anne Stewart), Margaret, Mary and Ellen.
John Carroll died in Kilwinning, Ayrshire in 1903.
Sorry if I amj causing more confusion.
Baird
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I have a Patrick Carroll b 21st Feb 1867 Rutherglen/Cambuslang
Parents were
Thomas Carroll Rosscommon Ireland and Elisabeth Wilson County Down Ireland
Patricks Siblings were
Peter Carroll 23Dec 1827 Carluke
Henry Caroll 03 May 1829 Carluke
Ann Carroll 06Dec 1860 Hamilton
William Carroll 19TH Jan 1865 Cambuslang
Elisabeth Carroll 20th Jan 1865 Cambuslang
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tam thanks for that info but unfortunately that is not him. :(
He was married when he moved to Glasgow and his wife's name was Jane also from Ireland.His eldest son James was born in Ireland and his other sons Patrick born 1857 in Glasgow and John was born circa 1860 in Glasgow also.
It is driving me mad trying to find Patrick and Jane on the 1861 or 1871 census!
Annette
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Possible 1861 census on SP for John with 2nd person Pat*
1861 CARLE JOHN Male aged 2 at HIGH CHURCH GLASGOW/LANARK
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From the census index it looks like the family consists of
Patrick Carle aged 42 born Ireland
Jane Carle aged 42 born Ireland
James 17 born Ireland
Elizabeth 15 born Ireland
Owen 10 born Glasgow
Ellen 7 born Glasgow
Patrick 5 born Glasgow
John 2 born Glasgow
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sancti you are a genius ;D
Never thought to try variations on the surname.Spent a fortune on SP looking for them!
That looks like the family, some of the childrens birth dates correspond with what I have and you have found the other siblings for me ;D
Will try now and get them on the 1871 though Jane was dead by then(1870)
Many thanks Annette
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I hope it is the right family, sorry the index doesn't give the address
I tried a search on SP for John using, car*l* rather than using soundex
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hi sancti yes it is the right family,recognise the names that came down the nex generation. Managed to find them in the 1851,down as carrol! Stupid never thought to drop the last L!
Still cant find him on the 1871 after Jane died or the 1881 the year before he died ???
Perseverance and I might get there :-\
Thanks again sancti for vyour help :-*
Annette
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Where did they die?
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Hi Sancti, Jane died in 1870 in Hutchesontown in January of that year but I have her on the 1851 and 1861 censuses.
Patrick died in May 1882 in Denniston so he should be on the 1871 and 1881 census.The youngest son John would have been about 12 or 13 for the 1871 and I presume still at home.I have tried all variants of the surname but no luck :(
The other thing is that on his death cert he is down as widower of 1st Jane Flannigan and 2nd Susanna McDaid or Wells but I can't find this second marriage anywhere ???
Annette
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What was the address that Patrick died at?
What age was given for him?
Who registered the death?
Perhaps John died as an infant and that is why you can't find him on the census.
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Hi sancti
John was on the 1881 census with his brother James and his family aged 20.
Patrick died at the Royal Infirmary Glasgow, usual address 156 Holm Street, informant was Patrick Carroll Jr, residence 156 Holm Street
Age was given as 53 but this was out as he was 42 in 1861
Annette
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Hope this helps........
Patrick and Peter were effectively interchangeable in Scotland.
From the IGI
*Patrick CARROLL, b 18 Dec 1856, Central District, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, parents Patrick CARROLL & Jane FLANAGAN
*John CARROL, b 22 Feb 1859, Blythswood, Glasgow,Lanarkshire, parents Peter CARROL & Jane FLANNIGAN
1871 census
Registration District 644/5 Clyde, Civil Parish Glasgow St Enochs, Enumeration District 30, Page 6
52 Maxwell Street
Peter CARL, 50, Head, Labourer, b Ireland
Elizabeth CARL, 23, Daughter, Millworker, b Ireland
Helen CARL, 17, Daughter, Millworker, b Cookbury Lanarkshire
Peter CARL, 14, Son, Painter, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
John CARL, 12, Son, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
Helen CROSSAN, 4 months, Granddaughter, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
From the IGI
*John CROSSAN m Elizabeth CARROL, 14 Jul 1865, High Church, Glasgow Lanarkshire
*Jane CROSSAN, b 6 Jun 1866, Central District, Glasgow Lanarkshire, parents John CROSSAN & Elisabeth CARROLL
*Elisabeth CROSSAN, b 18 Nov 1868, Hutchesontown, Glasgow Lanarkshire, parents John CROSSAN & Elisabeth CARROLL
*Helen CROSSAN, b 26 Oct 1870, Clyde, Glasgow Lanarkshire, parents John CROSSAN & Elizabeth CARROL
1881 census
Registration District 644/7 Blythswood, Civil Parish Glasgow St. George, Enumeration District 22, Page 19
5 West College Street
Peter CARROL, 60, Head, General Labourer, b Ireland
Elizabeth CARROL, 28, Daughter, b Ireland
Peter CARROL, 22, Son, General Labourer, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
Ellen CROSSAN, 10, Granddaughter, Scholar, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
Patrick MCMAHON, 6, Grandson, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
Lizzie MCMAHON, 4, Granddaughter, b Glasgow Lanarkshire
Re the new information re Patrick having re-married.
...
1871 census
81 Stirling St, Milton, Glasgow Barony LKS
Susan WELLS, Head, 33, Employed, b Coombes LKS
Charles WELLS, Son, 15, Master Apprentices, b Glasgow LKS
Susan WELLS, Daughter, 12, b Glasgow LKS
William WELLS, Son, 6, b Glasgow LKS
Mary WELLS, Daughter, 4, b Glasgow LKS
Rose MCDADE, 70, Mother, b Ireland
Mary MCDADE, 12, b Ireland
And Susan is in the 1881 census still under WELLS
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daval57
wow you have been busy,thanks! ;D
Yes I noticed that Peter was on the son Johns birth cert when I printed it yesterday,now I know why.Thought it was a mistake as Peter was Janes father.
The census for 1871 and 1881 look like them although I wasnt sure about the daughter Helen as she wasnt on the 1861 census. But the name fits as Helen was Janes mother's name.
I am doing a bit of childminding today but will have a look at all that info later.
daval57 I owe you and sancti a very BIG thanks for all your hard work.Carroll is my maiden name and none of my father's family knew any of the family history so my auntie will be delighted with all this new info ;D
Many thanks
Annette
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Hi Annette
Helen would be Ellen on the 1861 census probably a transcription error
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sancti, was just about to edit my previous post.You are spot on.I forgot about the daughter Ellen.Helen is interchangable with Ellen also,Ellen being more common in Ireland.
I am going google eyed at this stage looking at all the info in front of me ::)
Without your and daval 57 I would be worse!
Annette
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Hello
My great-great grandmother was an Agnes Carroll. She had a younger brother Patrick. This family of Carrolls were also Rutherglen based but later expanded out.
Would love to see if I can make any links with anyone :D
pckl
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Hi Annette,
I've been researching my wife's family tree, her maiden name is Carroll and by the sounds of it you are related to her!
Her dad is James Carroll (1945) Has 4 living sisters.
Grandfather also James Carroll (1903 - 1987) married to Agnes Wilson (parents Alexander Wilson & Margaret McParlane)
Gt Grandfather Owen Carroll (1880) married to Annie Reilly (parents Patrick Reilly & Elizabeth Mullan)
Gt Gt Grandfather James Carroll (1845) married to Anne McIntyre (parents Hugh McIntyre & Nancy McLaughlin)
Gt Gt Gt Grandfather Patrick Carroll - married to Jane Flanagan
If you send me an email I'll put you touch with the rest of the clan.
Cheers
Stephen Brennan
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Sorry new to this forum.....didn't realise that I wasn't allowed to put in my email address!
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:)
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Hi Stephen it seems that I am related to your wife's family!
Her great grandfather Owen/Eoghan was a brother of my gr gr grandad,James Carroll.
Mine is as follows:
father-James Carroll(1942-2008)
Grandfather-James Carroll(1913-1983)
Gr Grandfather-James Carroll(1891-?)married to Charlotte Molloy(parents Daniel Molloy and Sarah Brown)
*Gr Gr Grandfather-James(again!) Carroll (1872-1925) married to Mary McFarlane(parents Peter McFarlane and Agnes Mitchell)*
Gr Gr Gr Grandfather-James!Carroll (Ireland circa 1845-1915) married to Anne McIntyre(parents Hugh McIntyre and Ann(Nancy) McLaughlin)
Gr Gr Gr Gr Grandfather-Patrick Carroll(Ireland(when?)-1870)(parents James Carroll and Ellen Hughes) Married to Jane Flanagan(parents Peter Flanagan and Ellen(Helen) Bryans/O'Brien?) Second wife was Susan McDaid(m.s.Wells)
If you make another couple of postings I can send you a PM
Cheers Annette
p.s see that you posted while I typed ;D
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Hi net64(Annette),
Just wondered where in Ireland your Carroll's were from. My husband's Carroll family were from Gweedore, Donegal. His g. g. grandfather was Daniel Carroll marr. 1864 to Rose Doherty.Their children were Rose (his g grandmother),William,Mary,James, Frank, Arthur,Margaret,and Unity. Rose had a daughter Mary who went to Glasgow and married Stephen Lynch from the Aran Islands, Galway.
If they do not fit in with your family, maybe some one else will have more info!
Thanks,
DOC1
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DOC1,Hi!
Sorry can't help you there atall,have come to a dead end as to where my Carrolls are from in Ireland :(
The family story is that they might have been from Monaghan or Tipperary
Annette
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Hi Doc 1,
My Gr Gr Gr Grgrandfather is Andrew Carroll from Ardnagappary, Gweedore. His son James (18) came to Australia in 1859 on the Lady Elma Bruce as part of the Donegal relief Fund. James married Mary Doogan (18) from Cloughaneely , who also sailed on the Lady Elma Bruce, in Australia at age 21.
The 1857 Griffith's Valuation - Tullaghobegly Parish, Co Donegal has a Carroll, Andrew, Ardnagappary Number and Letter of reference map - 52
Extracted From: Minutes of evidence taken before the Select Committee into Destitution in Gweedore and Cloughaneely. British House of Commons Sessional papers1857-58, Vol. XIII., p. 524-
Townland of Middleton
112 Andy Carrol: A bad and dirty house; 1 cow and a donkey.
-Townland of Ardanagappary or Middletown
Carroll, Rose
Could we be related. Do you have any other information on theses Carrolls?
Regards,
Matt Carroll
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Hi there my Great Aunt Mary Logue from Ballykelly co Londonderry married a Patrick Carroll in Cashel Co Tipperary Ireland in 1923. Probly no connection but Tipperary is the place where there high concentration of that family name best regards Ray Logue
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Hi Matt Carroll,
I have just found your post today, I am sorry I didn't see it before.
I believe that Andrew Carroll was possibly my ggggrandfather also!
I did not have any other of his children apart from my gggranfather Daniel.
I would love to contact you, I live in Australia also.
I will try to send a personal message.
Doc1
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Hello Annette
Have only just logged onto this site.
My great grandfather was Owen Carroll born 1853 Coatridge, Lanarkshire. He married Mary Kay 15 November 1872 in Glasgow. I have a copy of their marriage Certificate (copy attached). It gives his parents names as Peter Carroll (limestone labourer) and Jane Flannigan. Could Peter & Patrick be one and the same.
My grandfather was also named Owen Carroll (1877-1953) born Glasgow. He married Mary Phimister 26 January 1917 Glasgow.
My father was also named Owen Carroll (1923-1980) born Glasgow.
Hope this may be of some assistance.
Gordon
Added: Only small relevant sections of certificate can be included for help with deciphering purposes due to copyright.
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Could Peter & Patrick be one and the same.
Welcome to RootsChat, Gordon :)
Peter and Patrick are first name variants and interchangeable, see http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=patrick
Monica