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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 14 April 09 13:02 BST (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and instead of just one Brickwall, we have a series of puzzles.........hope you can help.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
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Hi , my searches appear never ending .
I would like to find any fellow family history searchers for my own family. so to start .
1. Captain/Major Charles Jones b. 1783 died London 1843 . father of Ernest Jones Chartist .
I want to know = his birthplace ,(Suffolk) his parents and his family .
Is he related to William brasier Jones of woodhall.?
2. Baptism of Lavinia Fredericka Jutsum nee DE IRUJO and her sister Frances Augusta Clifton . Both born between 1815 and 1818 in Chelsea ....
3. William and Sarah Judd of Curzon place , who is in portrait on google books ...
The portrait of William Judd and family is by Helmsley and was in the Southerby catalog 18th July 1979. maybe someone will know how to find who is in it
I would like to get in touch with anyone studying:
Lacey's from warminister and paddington who owned Fox furniture at Staples corner .
Any Wharton's who lived in Paddington and worked at above .( orginated from Kirby Stephan Cumbria 1849 )
Jennings and Williams from hackney 1850 until modern day
any Clifton's , Limbys or Stockwells who went from England /Scotland to China and Singapore 1852
PS. if anyone can find my late aunt Unity Williams b abt. 1920 who married once or twice and died while living with a ken Connelly in Nottingham. her son was Richard . I believe she died 1970 ish would be great .
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Hi - I am getting a feeling of dejavu from the first part of this queery ;D
I will try and find the other thread (previous scavenger hunt) cos there was loads of stuff about the hunt for Captain Jones on there
:)
DebbieG
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Here we go :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,316739.0.html
DebbieG
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Thanks for that Debbie.........I should have put that in the first post!!!
Slap my hand ;D ;D
Barbara
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Hi,
I will try to help
Cheers ggd of Mary Ann
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Hi,
Aunt Unity's birth perhaps?
Unity J Williams JunQ 1922 Marylebone 1a 736 (mother Jennings)
Nanny Jan
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[quote .......Is he related to William brasier Jones of woodhall.?
That middle name, could it be Brazier? I will get through some of my many folders, as I have info about Brazier, not my forebears, but.... I am in NSW Australia, its near midnight here, I will try to get back when I have had sleep etc and done some domestic tasks. Cheers MA
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Hi
When I saw the name De Irujo I knew we had 'done' that one ;D Thanks Debbie for finding it LOL
deb
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Wonder who this is? Lavinia De Irujo/Yrujo married Jutsom so she would be under Jutsom for death :-\
Lavinia De Irujo
bc 1795 , age 71
Dec q 1866
Chelsea
1a 140
deb
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Hi all,
FK - have you contacted the three people who have a Lavinia De Irujo in their trees posted on Ancetry? Two are the wife of Charles (d. 1866) and one is LAvinia bn 1817?
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Wonder who this is? Lavinia De Irujo/Yrujo married Jutsom so she would be under Jutsom for death :-\
Lavinia De Irujo
bc 1795 , age 71
Dec q 1866
Chelsea
1a 140
deb
She was the daughter of this chap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Mart%C3%ADnez_de_Irujo_y_Tac%C3%B3n why don't any of my rellies have a wiki entry!
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From previous scavenger hunt
IGI
submitted
LAVINIA FREDERICA DE YRUJO, b c 1814 (death: 05 JAN 1893 )
mother; LAVINIA DE YRUJO
spouse;
FREDERICK RALPH CALEB JUTSUM
marriage;
1835 St Lukes, Chelsea, London
Okay I can see Ernest Jones s/o Charles Jones in 1851 and 1861 (Ernest bc 1819 in Berlin) .... But Frederika wants the baptism of Charles Jones ...arrghhh
deb :)
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1. Captain/Major Charles Jones b. 1783 died London 1843 . father of Ernest Jones Chartist .
I want to know = his birthplace ,(Suffolk) his parents and his family .
Is he related to William brasier Jones of woodhall.?
found this:
William Michael Jones
Chr: 16 May 1828
Sudbury, Suffolk
Father's Name: William Brasier Jones
Mother's Name: Hannah
Dianna Margaretta Jones
Chr: 16 May 1828
Sudbury, Suffolk
Father's Name: William Brasier Jones
Mother's Name: Hannah
deb
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I wonder if William Brasier Jones' will may reveal anything ...maybe his heirs would include Charles Jones' son, Ernest ?
Online Document PROB 11/2050
Will of William Brasier Jones Gentleman Ballingdon , Essex . Date: 1847.
Prerogative Court of Canterbury and Other Probate Jurisdictions: Bundles of Orig...H-L.
Will of William Brasier Jones in PROB 10/7438 . Date: 1847
Abstract of title of Henry Tiffin and Thomas Meeking (trustees of the will of William Brasier Jones esq.) to the Woodhall estate in Acton, Long Melford, Sudbury, and Ballingdon (Ess.); reciting deeds 23 Oct 1778-20 Jan 1849 EE 501/6/96 1850
deb
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:-\ :-\ :-\
William Brasier Jones
born = 1 DEC 1796
chr = 12 MAR 1797 Saint Gregory, Sudbury, Suffolk, England
died = JUL 1806
parents;
William Jones and Jemima Brasier
This can't be the one who had kids in the 1820s :-X
so now I'm confused .... there are a few kids to this couple ...No Charles!
deb
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According to this site:
http://gerald-massey.org.uk/Jones/index.htm
"Major Jones's mother was an Annesley, daughter of a squire of Kent. "
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Thanks for that Spider :)
IGI
Charles Jones = Charlotte Matilda Annesley
2 FEB 1818
Charles Jones bc 1793 OF (does not say Born Hanover Sq) Hanover Sq, London
So we have to figure out if Charles is related to William Brasier Jones
deb
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In that link you posted< Spider , there is reference of Ernest (Chartist) writing about this person ... " He reached the limit when, under the thin disguise of the adventures of a fictitious demagogue called Simon de Brassier" .... Coincidental? ...that we are trying to connect him to William Brasier Jones whose mother's maiden name was BRASIER?
deb ...off into flights of fancy ;D ;D
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Hi all,
BRASIER lic to marry JONES 1753
very early here, 2:28 am Wednesday, but found this on one of my scraps of paper, and so found it at ancestry too.
County: Shropshire
Country: England
28 Feb 1753 Richard Brasier & Mary Jones, lic. mar.
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Oh, tis is even betterer from same online as earlier postings
12 May 1779 William Brasier, of Acton Burnell, and Mary Jones, Wit: James Brasier, Martha Brasier.
ADDING debs earlier find William Michael Jones Chr: 16 May 1828 Sudbury, SuffolkFather's Name: William Brasier Jones Mother's Name: Hannah
Dianna Margaretta Jones Chr: 16 May 1828 Sudbury, SuffolkFather's Name: William Brasier Jones Mother's Name: Hannah
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quote deb usa Coincidental? ...that we are trying to connect him to William Brasier Jones whose mother's maiden name was BRASIER?
Hi all, you wanted mother's maiden name of BRASIER, ummm, so were the witnesses to that 12 May 1779 Brasier=Jones marriage perhaps related to the groom? so was Martha Brasier a Miss or a Mrs?
Oh dear, I really must be off the planet, ;) senior moment here, re inserting quotes, sorry!
Night Night all
MA
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Can't see if we already have this, but from IGI -
William Brasier Jones mar Hannah Wright 23 Aug 1823 St Gregory, Sudbury, Suffolk
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Sleep well MA ;D
1851
Ernest C Jones 32 Barrister out of practice b Prussia
Jane G Jones wife 33 IGI has their marriage , Jane is nee Gibson, b Highgate
Ernest B A Jones son 9 b Middlesex, London
Edward L R Jones son 6 b ditto
Llewellyn A A Jones son 4 b Ditto
This was after Ernest got out of prison.
I wonder if his children middle intials hold a clue... ie; the B in Ernest, the son's name.
By 1861 ..Ernest is a widower and a practicing Barrister living with his other son Walter.
IGI
WALTER CHARLES AUGUSTUS JONES
born 15 OCT 1851
chr 13 AUG 1853 Saint Mary Soho, Westminster
The other children are not on IGI ... :-\
birth reg
Llewellyn Archer Atherley Jones mar q 1847 Marylebone
still looking for the others
deb
added In 1861 Ernest A B Jones and Edward Stanley R Jones are together ... Edard has be transcribed as Edmond :-\
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Thanks for that Spider :)
IGI
Charles Jones = Charlotte Matilda Annesley
2 FEB 1818
Charles Jones bc 1793 OF (does not say Born Hanover Sq) Hanover Sq, London
So we have to figure out if Charles is related to William Brasier Jones
deb
Erm, getting myself in a muddle here. I thought that Major Charles Jones was born c. 1783, and it was his mother who was an Annersley?
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Hi Spider ...It was Ernest , the Chartist, who was the only son of Major Charles whose mum as an Annesley
;D
added .......arrghhhhhhhhhh you are correct :-[ :-[ :-[
from Wiki;
"ERNEST CHARLES JONES will, however, be long remembered by Chartist generations. He was the son of a Major Jones, of high connections, who had served in the wars of Wellington, and was at Waterloo. He was subsequently equerry to the Duke of Cumberland, afterwards Ernest I. of Hanover, and uncle of Queen Victoria. Major Jones's mother was an Annesley, daughter of a squire of Kent. His only son, Ernest, was born in Vienna, in January, 1819"
:-\
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Spider
Just found this on IGI...extracted
Ernest Charles Jones
30 JUN 1819 Berlin Stadt, Brandenburg, Preussen
parents;
father = Charles Gustavus Jones
Charlotte Matilda
On Palotts marriage index re this marriage;
Charles Jones = Charlotte Matilda Annesley
2 FEB 1818
it states that CHARLES is a WIDOWER
Look at Charles' middle name ..Gustavus ... was he a foreigner too ??
arrghhhhhhh now I'm confused ... maybe it is Ernest whose mother is an Annesley ::)
HELP!!!!!
deb ;D
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from Scavenger hunt #1
"1st marriage was to unknown relative of Lord Braybrooke who was also niece of Provost of Eaton. He then married Charlotte Annesley (daughter of Alex Annesley of Hyde Hall ) in 1818."
So Charles was still married to wife #2 when he had his liason with Lavinia ...you say the girls , Lav jnr and Frances were born between 1816 -1821. What children did Charles and Charlotte have together
also;
Captain Charles Jones may be related to William brasier Jones of Woodhall.
quoting Ernest 1839 diary . referring to his father or his paternal grandfather
"his Great uncle was a JONES of Woodhall Suffolk ? .( the question mark is Ernest's.)
Ernest goes on to say " My paternal grandfather (no name ) has estates at Sudbury in Suffolk . the Grove, . the Crote (my ?) houses at Stratford in-or-and in Stratford on Avon "
and " Servants Ruth and William Thompson knew my fathers family well belonging to the town or near Clare (my ? ) in Suffolk. "
I still cant find my Captain Charles birth or family with all this info . i know he was born around 1783 probably Nov or DEC.
deb
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from NA
Lease EE 501/13/151 Proprietors of the Navigation 2 William Jones of Woodhall in Sudbury, gent. and Thomas Adkin of Sudbury, merchant 1 to 2, piece of land, parcel of the Nonsuch in All Saints and St Gregory, for 21 years Plan in margin. [Suffolk, Bury St Edmunds, SUDBURY Date: 1820.
could he be a relative of Major Charles and Ernest, Chartist?
deb
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Hi guys , what a flying start !!!had to grab coffee and glasses ..
deb = Lavinia de irujo b1794 is the daughter of Sarah knight and don Carlos Martinez DE irujo..Baptism found .
it is her daughter LAVINIA FREDERICA aka Fredericka. b. abt 1817 who i am looking for her baptism .
GUSTAVUS Jones is interesting ... wow never seen that before ..might be a hint ....
the b in Ernest 's son is for beaufort (his posh godfather ).
my reasoning for thinking the family is related to William brasier Jones is from Ernest's1843 diary suggesting his father's great uncle might be JONES OF WOODHALL>
he goes on to say the family has homes "The grove " which i think is ballingdon grove ...and in sudbury and Clare . we found that William brasier father was William Jones . now i think Charles garret Jones inherits the land in Clare .
it is all coincidence . somewhere in the past i thought i had written down ACTON in regards my Jones . i see it mentioned there .
Charles Jones was married twice .
once to unknown relative of Provost of Eaton and secondly in 1818 to Charlotte Matilda Annesley .
his son Ernest married Jane Atherley...
it is very confusing .......
thanks for any help......
Jan
P>S>
it looks like i haven't progressed but those who participated in first search i did wonders with
Frances (fanny) Clifton . tracked her down from London to hong Kong to china . got papers and wills . her family married into Stockwell in Brisbane , limbys in singapore ...
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http://www.aggsh.de/down/vr/1835C4777_Schoenningstedt.pdf
The above is (I think) land registry/census info for Schleswig-Holstein in 1835. At the end of page 7 is the Major and his household. I have no German at all, so I shall be translating piecemeal so bear with me!
Name/Ge/Alter/Fam-stand/Beruf Status/Anmerkung
21 Kauthengebaude
Charles Gustavus Jones M 47 Verheir Kathenbesitzer ANM:Bemerkungen nicht lesbar??
Charlotte Matilde F 38 Verheir seine Ehefrau ANM:Bermerkungen
Ernst Charles Jones M 16 Unverheir ihr Sohn ANM:Bemerkungen nicht zu entiziffern
Johann Christoph Schwarz M 27 Unverheir Hauslehrer hat Titel der Theologie
Christian Christoph Lemann M 31 Unverheir Kutscher
Johann Carl Brandt M 17 Unverheir ?? ANM: Beruf
Mary Ann Elise Debry F 40 Witwe Kochin
Rosaline Debry F 16 Unverheir Hausmadchen Tochter der Kochin
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Hi , looking at the German census .. thank you ,i notice Ernst spelt as such so maybe Gustavus is a German spelling for what ?
it should be obvious but i don't speak any German and surely its not just GUS> thanks for your help. Jan
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Name/Ge/Alter/Fam-stand/Beruf Status/Anmerkung
Name/Sex/Age/Marital staus/Job/Note
21 Kauthengebaude
Charles Gustavus Jones M 47 Verheir Kathenbesitzer ? Besitzer means owner so perhaps house owner?ANM:Bemerkungen nicht lesbar?? remarks not legible
Charlotte Matilde F 38 Verheir seine Ehefrau ANM:Bermerkungen
Ernst Charles Jones M 16 Unverheir ihr Sohn ANM:Bemerkungen nicht zu entiziffern not able to decipher remarks
Johann Christoph Schwarz M 27 Unverheir Hauslehrer house teacher hat Titel der Theologie has theology title
Christian Christoph Lemann M 31 Unverheir Kutscher coachman
Johann Carl Brandt M 17 Unverheir ?? ANM: Beruf
Mary Ann Elise Debry F 40 Witwe widow Kochin cook
Rosaline Debry F 16 Unverheir Hausmadchen Tochter der Kochin daughter of cook
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Sleep well MA ;D
1851
Ernest C Jones 32 Barrister out of practice b Prussia
Jane G Jones wife 33 IGI has their marriage , Jane is nee Gibson, b Highgate
Ernest B A Jones son 9 b Middlesex, London
Edward L R Jones son 6 b ditto
Llewellyn A A Jones son 4 b Ditto
so who is Jane Gibson then?
Spider ........woohooooooooooo on the German stuff ...FAB!!!!!! :D
Does it state where Charles Gustavus was born?
deb
ps Hi Frederika ... ;D
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Unfortunately, it doesn't mention place of birth, but the document I was working of is a transcription by a local genealogical society so it might be worth contacting them to see if they have any further information.
Have we looked at the Charles Augustus Jones ch 1785 St Pancras to Isaac and Mary?
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Email addy for the German local history group is AGGSH [at] aggsh.de (no spaces and @ obviously ;))
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According to The Living Age ... By Eliakim Littell, Making of America Project, Robert S. Littell (Published by The Living Age Co. Inc., 1869) the King of Hanover was Major Charles Jones' godfather.
Sorry, I misread. The King of Hanover (e.g. DUke of Cumberland) was Ernest's godfather
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wowhoo... ;D That Charles Augustus Jones from st pancras sounds promising .
Charles Jones died at age abt. 60 years in Feb , 1843. i think his birthday is 7th of Nov or DEC. (from letter
)YES>>> woooo esp as he called his daughter Frances Augusta .. almost too simple . I have always thought that Frances Augusta was named after Ernest Augustus duke of cumberland ... what do we do next . i almost cant think straight .
The Jones family arms/crest was from Jones of London ... am i so far off from Suffolk.... due to Ernest Jones diary ???
is st pancras near Acton ???
I am going to kew library to look up 15th hussars records but need some advice on how to get there etc . i suppose i look up on net .
Jan
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Hi Ernest Jones was married to Jane Gibson atherley .... in the diary he celebrates his marriage and lo several months later the birth of his son ... def. a very prem baby so they were up to IT amongst high society even in 1843 ish .... tho how and when with the close eye of parents and chaperone's mentioned in diary i have no idea ...
I am certainly interested in the Charles Augustus Jones but have never seen him as such in any papers ,grave or letters i have managed to track down ....
thanks
Jan
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Hi guys ... ;D ;D
I too looked at the Charles AUGUSTUS birth ... Gustavus = augustus :-\
did note the Augustus middle name of daughter!!!!!!!!!!!!
deb :D
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1851
Ernest C Jones 32 Barrister out of practice b Prussia
Jane G Jones wife 33 IGI has their marriage , Jane is nee Gibson, b Highgate
Ernest B A Jones son 9 b Middlesex, London
Edward L R Jones son 6 b ditto
Llewellyn A A Jones son 4 b Ditto
This was after Ernest got out of prison.
I wonder if his children middle intials hold a clue... ie; the B in Ernest, the son's name.
By 1861 ..Ernest is a widower and a practicing Barrister living with his other son Walter.
IGI
WALTER CHARLES AUGUSTUS JONES
born 15 OCT 1851
chr 13 AUG 1853 Saint Mary Soho, Westminster
The other children are not on IGI ... :-\
birth reg
Llewellyn Archer Atherley Jones mar q 1847 Marylebone
AUGUSTUS again !!!!!!
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Jan .....what now ??? LOL
I wonder if there are other documents ... and where the heck did the middle name Gustuvas come from?>
deb
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Jan ....wonder what this will reveal?
Jones, Ernest Charles (1819-1869) Chartist and Poet 131396Chartist and Poet Ernest Charles Jones corresp letters (56) to Karl Marx corresp with Jane Atherley (14 items) diaries corresp, family and business papers (1708 items) draft letters; memoranda and papers letters (33) to George Howell with latter's biography Date range: 1819 - 1869.
do you have this info?? I wonder what names will be mentioned in this corespondence with his future wife?
deb
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hellooooooooooooooooo I am all alone here with these 'posh' people ...LOL
deb
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Hi All,
Ummm, there's a SUBMITTED tree on ancestry 65 on full list. Shows Charles Gustavus Jones m to Charlotte Matilda Annesley was 2 Feb 1818. Other surnames include Butterfield. But tree does not seem to include anyone that may be related to"Brasier" or " Frederica/ Lavinia" at present time. Perhaps someone with more understanding of Frederica's complicated 19th c tree may be able to contact that ancestry submitter and get them involved here on this scavenger hunt to help frederickay. Just a thought.
Cheers, MA
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Hi . i have never heard of the Charles Gustavus Jones so that is a great breakthrough today . thanks .
i don't have ancestry ,the library does but it doesn't let me correspond wit ht he other peeps . when was that submitter ed .
i have the address for that info with howell and will go there next time i go to england . nor have i ever heard of butterfields .
i have a lot of letters here from Charles berating the facts of paternity and then i have several to his "daughter ' Frances .
I have copied verbatim the diary of Ernest 1843. i read the notes in back out of actual diary in manchester library. it is apparent he didn't know anything about fathers family. it is from that that i got all the Suffolk info.
the German census is all the right names and dates the new one being the Augustus.
I will get onto it now as i have been out at dentist. i looked up google books for c.a.Jones s. got all excited but dates wrong and anyway in books that c,a, Jones was in states .
thanks for help. bye Jan
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Hi All,
Perhaps I am having a senior moment, but may I ask please for a TO DO list with outstandings of possible names dates locations cause after reading the 18 pages of first hunt I am now very eggled in grey matter confusions.
Cheers, MA
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Hi,
As asked , a to do list
Captain Charles ? Jones was in 15th hussars ... 1810 until he went as duke of cumberlands aide de camp...
how do we find his army records ?
where is pancras ?
who are Issac and Mary Jones and do they fit into my Suffolk family lore ?
who is Captain grimes ?. he is in diary as knowing Charles ...
Would you like me to send you a email of his letters if i can find them on computer ?
where would the baptism records be of Frances Augusta Clifton and Lavinia Fredericka ? 1815-1818 in chelsea somewhere ...they do make interesting reading don't they .
The mother and captain Jones owned 16 College street Chelsea in 1821. i have not really followed that up.
i need some instructions on wherein London to look these things up. thanks for your interest.
Jan
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Ta Jan,
I will just start with top of that list, and plod through. No promises, but I will try! Cheers, MA
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From the Royal site http://194.203.40.17/output/Page4990.asp
My relative worked in the Royal Household. Do you have details about them?
The Royal Archives has references to people employed in the Royal Household from the 18th century, and indexes to names of people employed from 1660 onwards. Please put your enquiry in writing, including as much detail as possible, and send it to: The Royal Archives, Windsor Castle, Windsor, Berkshire SL4 1NJ. For earlier periods, contact the National Archives at Ruskin Avenue, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU.
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hi will have to get onto that straight away . off to england soon .
can we look at more recent history for a minute ..
my aunt Unity Williams b.1922 was married to a man Evans ,
her next partner was
Kenneth connelley,bank house ,
George street , nottingham. he lived there for thirty years , he died Jan 1993 . in 1991 he told my mother that her sister Unity had died 20 years before . unknown to my mum . we would like to find her burial and or death cert but don't know how to start . thanks
Jan
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Unity J Williams mar Dec qtr 1940 Epping 4a 1295 (haven't ploughed through all the Evans' yet to find out his first name ;))
Added: there is a David C Evans marrying a Williams same qtr, same year, same district but index ref is 4a 1296. I wonder if they are two separate couples or an error by the indexer
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Is this your Unity Williams?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=7989324
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Hi Jan,
Pancras probably it is this part of London.
The Metropolitan Borough of St Pancras was a metropolitan borough of the County of London between 1899 and 1965, when it was amalgated with the Metropolitan Borough of Hampstead and the Metropolitan Borough of Holborn to form the London Borough of Camden.
(Not found answers yet to items higher up the to do list, but on the case!)
Cheers, MA
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Hi Jan
This link should get you to an email enquiry service associated with an historical regiment museum http://www.lightdragoons.org.uk/regimental_history/historical_enquiries.php and I only found it when I googled 15th hussars! Very interesting webpages, and two museums, recently re-done. There is even an option to ask about an individual person, and they ask only for a donation if they are able to provide useful information. It could be they will have loads of info about your Capt who went on to become the Aide de etc. as they have a paragraph that indicates they have info about their "antecedent regiments"
Cheers MA
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morning all :)
Hi . i have never heard of the Charles Gustavus Jones so that is a great breakthrough today . thanks .
i don't have ancestry ,the library does but it doesn't let me correspond wit ht he other peeps . when was that submitter ed .
Jan ...it was an EXTRACTED entry! ;D
Just found this on IGI...extracted
Ernest Charles Jones
30 JUN 1819 Berlin Stadt, Brandenburg, Preussen
parents;
father = Charles Gustavus Jones
Charlotte Matilda
On Palotts marriage index re this marriage;
Charles Jones = Charlotte Matilda Annesley
2 FEB 1818
it states that CHARLES is a WIDOWER
Look at Charles' middle name ..Gustavus ... was he a foreigner too ??
deb
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Me Again,
Ummm, SPAIN, the 15th Hussars etc, Chartists etc,
It seems that British Foreign Legion may get a mention too, for this is a quote from NAA on line "This Memorandum was originally written February 1793 The British Foreign Legion in Spain was a force recruited in this country in 1835 to serve in Spain on the side of the Queen of Spain against the Carlists. The ........". The National Archives does not hold service records or lists of the officers and men who served in the Legion. ......... The Times 30 July 1835 page 7 ......... officers who had joined. ........
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=British_Foreign_Legion_in_Spain%2C_1835#top idtop
Some of the names of those officers were noted as late 15th Hussars.
That's the best I can do for the minute on those Hussars!
Cheers, MA
.
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Hi, Umm, Capt GRIMES
think I have found something!
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/15406/pages/1120
That's from 12 September 1801. And is a promotion for a George Grimes to take effect 1 Sept 1801, to Lieut. Thats a free to view site, each issue, each page is separate pdf file and is keyword searchable.
Its too late this evening for me to keep at it, but geegle london gazette and there are links to Belfast and Edin gaz also. Could be good place for all those "posh" names with military promotions etc, and probate announcements too or any litigations re distribution of estates among any natural born children!
Cheers,
MA
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Weee, ;D ;D i think that the David c. Evans marrying unity Williams in 1940 is highly likely because i have a email here that says
Charles (well that could easily be David c Evans ) married unity in 1940 when she was 18. as she was born 1922 that ties in doesn't it .
it is the first real evidence on paper that we have seen . we are all doing it from mums memory , which i must say isn't too bad seeing as mum would have only been 9 when the marriage took pl ac e. thanks .
i will past it on to my sis to action . Jan
PS. i am going to spend day scaling thru things to see if i can place Issac and Mary Jones into my Charles Jones family .
Captain grimes was his friend i think ...
Jan
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Hi All,
Re William Brasier Jones,
Probable date of death from reading of London Gazette on line at 23 March 1847 Issue number: 20717 Page number: 1157 (there are other later issues also with his name and creditors etc,) but in part this issue indicates William Brasier Jones, late of Ballingdon, in the county of Essex, Gentleman, deceased '(who died on or about the 13th day of July 1846), are forthwith to come in and prove their debts before Sir William Horne, ...... at his chambers, in Chancery-lane, London, or ....
Could this be the William Brasier Jones possibly a son of marriage [quote
12 May 1779 William Brasier, of Acton Burnell, and Mary Jones, Wit: James Brasier, Martha Brasier, and thus this 1846 death be the death of the father of
William Michael Jones Chr: 16 May 1828 Sudbury, SuffolkFather's Name: William Brasier Jones Mother's Name: Hannah
Dianna Margaretta Jones Chr: 16 May 1828 Sudbury, Suffolk Father's Name: William Brasier Jones Mother's Name: Hannah
Cheers, MA, back on the trail! (Having trouble finding that Isaac and Mary Jones!)
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Morning all
re; Unity Williams
I have checked the death index for the years ; 1968/69/70/71/72/73/74/75 ...no luck so far!
Did Unity marry Kenneth Connelley?
Spider ...The missing person , Unity Williams on NA, is interesting! But Kenneth Connelley told her sister in 1991 that she had died 20 years before... :-\
did she divorce Evans or did her die?
will keep checking death index and will check around the time frame from the 'missing' Unity Williams.
Jan .... I have been checking around for the De Yrujo/Irujo peeps but I am only finding what I found in the last scavenger hunt ...although I have found the Will of KEARNS living money to the De Irujo's in Pennsylvania :o :o
deb
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Just reporting in,
I have tried all sorts of ways to find a possible location of the baptism records be of Frances Augusta Clifton and Lavinia Fredericka but sorry, not solved that mystery yet, I will keep trying, but I don't have much spare time available over the next day or so.
Night all, its near midnight here.
Cheers, MA
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hi MA ... only morning here ;D
Here's Kenneth death ....
Kenneth Connelly
b 18 Dec 1923
died; Jan 1993, Nottingham
age 69
not that it helps ...have not found Unity's death yet unless she is under Connelly and not Williams :-\
deb
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Hi Debs,
With the missing person thing, I was thinking more along lines of Unity running off to marry David and family reporting her missing.
When you checked deaths, were you looking under Evans, Willliams or Connolly?
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crapola ........just realised I was looking under WILLIAMS and Not EVANS
:-\ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-X
I shall start again under EVANS
deb
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If you start from 68, I'll start from 75 and meet you in middle ;)
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spider
Unity EVANS ...I have done 1970/71 already ...I'll go back to 1968- 1970
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OK,
not 1975, or 74, or 73, or 72
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1968/69 NOTHING
1967 Nothing
1966 nothing
1965/4 ditto
rechecked 1970/71 ..nothing again LOL
:-\
should we try Connolly/connelly/connelley?
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I think Jan said that Unity may have been married twice, so she could have did with an unknown (to us!) surname.
I wonder if the child (RIchard?) belonged to the Evans/Williams marriage, because that would give us a date of when (presumably) she was still married to Evans, and we could then search for another Unity Williams marriage
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arrrghhhhhhhhh Spider ;D
searching for a Richard Williams with MMN = Evans will be a major job ...we have no birth year or place ::)
deb
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;D
There are 13 Richard Evans with mmn Williams born between 1940 and 1950 - unfortunately none of them were waving a red flag and jumping up and down saying "It's me! It's me!"
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So, we'll look for Unity Connelly in the death index then? I'll start at 75 again.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
now doing Unity Conn*y...this comes up with all the various spellings
1971 ...nothing
1970 ditto
1969 ditto
1968 ditto
1967/66/65 nada
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Not 75, or 74, or 73 or 72
(of course, we only have Mr Connelly's word as to when she died..........actually lets not think like that ;))
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(of course, we only have Mr Connelly's word as to when she died..........actually lets not think like that ;))
;D ;D 8) ...thought the same thing ....why would Jan's mum not know about her sister, Unity? Why would she have met Kenneth Connelly who tells her about Unity's death?
deb
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I wonder if Unity and Mr Connelly were buried/interred at the same place?
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How would we find that out?
to recap ....
searches for Unity Evans' death: 1960-1975 ..nothing
searches for Unity Conn*y 1965-1975 ...nothing
do you think Kenneth Connelly lied?
deb
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From http://gossweb.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/atoz/viewfull.asp?serviceid=20&name=Cemeteries%20-%20Northern%20Cemetery
Service name Cemeteries - Northern Cemetery
Description There are five cemeteries and 14 burial grounds in Nottingham, managed by our Bereavement Services Team. We also manage the Wilford Hill Crematorium. Contact for all cemeteries - Northern Cemetery in Bulwell
Phone number 0115 9153245
E-mail cemeteries@nottinghamcity.gov.uk
Address Hempshill Lane Bulwell Nottingham NG6 8PF
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ahhh ...good job Spider!
I wonder who registered Kenneth's death ....wouldn't it be great if it was Richard Evans/Connelly.
ummm what if Kenneth said Unity died 20 odd years ago ...do you think we should look further back.
deb
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I was wondering about the 20 year thing aswell - I always get suspicious with convenient round numbers! 20 years is al ong time to be precise - could definitely be further back (to my in laws, 20 years is always more like 30!)
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Just checked back on Unity EVANS til 1960...nothing
searches for Unity Evans' death: 1960-1975 ..nothing
searches for Unity Conn*y 1965-1975 ...nothing
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Another thought, if Jan knows the address where Unity and Kenneth lived she could contact the archives and see if they have the electoral rolls available:
Where can I view old registers?
Copies of registers which are more than 10 years old can be obtained from The County Records Office for research purposes that meet the following conditions in relation to any processing of personal data:
that the data are not processed to support measures or decisions with respect to particular individuals
that the data are not processed in such a way that substantial damage or substantial distress is, or is likely to be, caused by any data subject
The County Records Office is based at County House, Castle Meadow Road, Nottingham NG1 2AG, and can be contacted on 0115 9581634.
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Have to go bathe son, but will try and get back on tonight.
See you later :D
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The Nottingham electoral rolls are also at the Central Library.
http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1786
Now I could look at them but not for a couple of weeks.
I would suggest contacting the very helpful people in Local Studies and see if they can help you. One thing I will say is the address George St is a city centre street with a hotel, theatre, restaurants, shops etc. I looked in the telephone directories on Ancestry and that same address does show up but my guess is that there wouldn't be that many people actually living on that strreet some years ago ( Some buildings have been converted into apartments recently but earlier on I think they were mostly commercial buildings).
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Hi Jaywit, thanks for the info on where to find the electoral roll :)
Have started looking to see if Unity Williams remarried. Have searched under Williams 41, 42, 43 so far. No joy. Nor in 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 or 50.
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hi some unity williams background from my mum who was the younger sister ..
unity was a very spirited young woman who was at odds with her parents ....
she was in a childrens or worse home in exter and ran away from there to marry david charles evans . as found here this week . he was 38 she was 18.
that is what the police file is in reference to. my sis has contacted that link and it is closed for 75 years . she is going to write to them anyway .
my mother emigrated here to nz in 1952 ..hence i am a kiwi born 1953..(just a little aside )..
mum lost contact with unity because mum was writing to bank road instead of bank house george street .
apparently ken connelly lived there for 30 years .
now last contact was unity asking mum to assist her here to nz but disclosing the fact she WAS NOT married to ken connelley.
mum returned to england 50 years later 1991, looks up phone book there is ken . arrives thrilled to see her sister to be told, obliquely may i add ,
unity died of woman troubles twenty years before ". nothing else , not where she was buried and very possibily unity wasnt living with ken at the time . we have no contact with richard connelley who Mum has just rememebred was adopted . maybe he never took the name connelley /
isnt it interesting we can find back to year dot but not my aunt from 1970.
thanks for all your help. my mum is very ill and would just love to find anything .
thnaks
jan
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Jan
When/what year did Unity write to your mum? ...at least if we know that year we can trawl through the death index from then. If your mum went to NZ and was there by 1952 and Unity wrote to her (when) thereafter we have some years to work with.
So ..Jan's mum in NZ by 1952, Unity writes to ask for help, Kenneth states Unity dies circa 1970/71, Jan's mum looses contact because of wrong address ...why does Unity NOT write again/keep in contact? Has she died? but when ....To me Kenneth seems to be fibbing on time frame of death ....why can't we find Unity's death circa 1970's unless it was earlier/later.
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
what a sad story
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Hi Debs, Jan's sister Shirley here. Really appreciate the work you are doing. Mum is staying with me and I am relaying messages back and forwards between postings/Mum and Jan. Aunty Unity didn't write to Mum in NZ, it was when Mum told Unity she was coming to NZ that she asked Mum to send her NZ address and her and Ken would try and get over. When Mum left England she didn't have an address to go to, just Auckland NZ, Mum sent letters and cards to 1 Bank St, Nottingham but never got a response. We now know it was Bank House, George St.Nottingham. Ken was a security guard there. * We left Nottingham in a daze and have regretted ever since not finding Unity's grave. I have searched unsuccessfully since on the internet so have been most impressed with your break-throughs. Unity had a 'wooden peg leg' till she was 14 and was a patient of Roehampton Hospital for prosthetics. Is there any way of searching their records.? I have written to try and get a release of her missing person report. Thanks Shirley
*Moderator Comment: message edited by request - removal of information about living person/s*
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Hi Shirley, Jan and your mum,
We will do our best to try and find out what happened to Unity and I'm sorry if it appears we were being nosy or prying into family business. Please could you ask your mum if she has any idea of how long Unity was with David Evans, and whether Unity married someone else before she met Kenneth.
All the best,
Spider
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Hi Shirley,
Welcome,
I support Spidermonkey's comments, 110%,
Cheers, MA
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hi just a note .. two things . we are grateful and certainly don't think you are nosy . and 2nd , looking at my notes and Shirley's you can tell we are sisters can't you and interestingly enough the notes demonstrate how we get our oral family history wrong . i have you searching for a letter written sometime after 1960 and Shirley having spoken to mum has it as a conversation in 1951-2 .
not quite as bad as Shirley and I telling someone that their step great grandfather was hung for murder .. oh dear that was BAD. :-[ :-[
thanks
Jan
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So, we can say for certain that Unity was alive and living in Nottingham(?) in 1952ish. Was she with Kenneth then? Because if so, it is unlikely that she remarried after David - thus limiting the surname choice to 3!
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Hi All,
Do we know if Unity Evans/Connelly could have other first names, or a nick name, perhaps we may find her if we treat "Unity" as her middle name? Just a thought. Cheers, MA
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I think her middle name started with a J, if I remember from her birth reg.
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good morning all
Welcome, Shirley. :) Thank you for your post, hopefully we can find Unity's death for you, Jan and your Mum. At least now we know she was alive in 1952 and was already with Kenneth.
deb
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Of course you can Deb.............. ;D ;D ;D
A little vote of confidence here..... ;)
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Thanks Barbara ;D
I think between all of us we can work our way through the complete death index.......... 8)
ADDED ....I can't get into Anc***** :-\
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I can feel it in me water..........you can break this brick wall down. ;D :D
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*rolls sleeves up*
Right then, where do we start on the death index?
From Deb yesterday:
searches for Unity Evans' death: 1960-1975 ..nothing
searches for Unity Conn*y 1965-1975 ...nothing
Deb, did you say you had checked Unity Williams?
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Morning all
re; Unity Williams
I have checked the death index for the years ; 1968/69/70/71/72/73/74/75 ...no luck so far!
yep ...did these the other day under Williams.
Can't get into ances*** :-\
not sure if we should start with 1970 again looking eg; Jane Unity, in case the 'J" initial is Jane or do 1960 back to 1852?
what do you think?
deb
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I think it sounds painful however we look at it!
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Lets go backwards. If Unity married as Unity and Ken knew her as Unity, she would have been registered as Unity............
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Spider ... I was thinking the same thing ....ESP!! ;D
I can't look at the mo, as Ancestry won't work for me .gggrrrrrrrrrr >:( :(
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Its not playing for me either at the moment. I've got to go out in about an hour, but can pick this up again tonight. Which name do you fancy tackling?
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eeny meeny miny mo ..... LOL ;D
I don't mind ...I also have to go out soon.
we need to do
Unity Evans 1952-1960 and maybe 1975 onward just in case
Unity WILLIAMS 1952-1968 and also 1975 Onward " " "
whoever gets on Ancestry 1st ... start with Evans .... ;D
I keep on thinking that maybe I missed her .... :-\ :-X
deb
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Yay, am on Ancestry, and just to be on the safe side I checked the 1984 onwards record for all Unity J with no luck, and no Unitys died in Nottingham either.
Will have a quick blast at Evans 1960
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Not 1960.
Back later on
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see you later
Just done Evans 1952/53/54/55/56/57/58/59 ...nothing
just a thought ..what about spelling evans with an
'e' ..Evens or William-Evans :-\ :-\ :-\
deb
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out of this hunt as I am off on me holidays tomorrow. I wish you all the very best of luck, and look forward to finding out the results when I return next Sunday. If you still need people to plough through deaths then I will be happy to do so!
All the very best luck,
Spider
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Hi guys .had a breakthru .. BUT i forgot to ask when . thanks to R.C 's here i found Unity's son ..... but !!!!!!!
we were right about her not being with ken CONNELLY . the son says that unity left ken about 1952/3 . he rembers nothing else except she died in BRADFORD> i was gabbling so much on the international call i forgot to ask when !!!!!!!!
does any of that help.
thanks jan
i think she would have a different surname . i dont suppose she went back to williams .
bye . ps. i havent got hold of shirley to tell her yet...
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Hi all,
I wonder if:
Margaret Unity Evans Birth 16 Sep 1916
Death Registration Apr 1991 Oxford Volume: 20 Page: 2372
(This is from my ancestry sub which has only just come back on after some apparent issues and there is a message on that sub to say it will be getting maintenance for 2 hours this evening!)
MA
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Hi
unity .
i now know she was alive in nottingham in 1952 but left Nottingham soon after . she died in BRADFORD but i don't know when ?
it must have been roughly 20 years before 1990. is that any help. she definitely was known as Unity Joan Connelly . don't know if this was so when she died . thanks
Jan
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Hi MA,
Found * though the UK Whitepages! Thanks. To find him after all these years amazing!!! Apparently he didn't know we had been to England looking for Aunty Uni and her family. Unity's middle name was Joan, though she was called "Peggy" by the kids in her East End neighbourhood, (and that's what Mum thought her name was till Mum got older) An American boyfriend called her Joanne but she was known to everyone as Uni.
Her birth date is definitely April 1922. Unity Joan Williams.
Shirley
*Moderator comment: reference to living person removed :)
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Hi Shirley,
Glad to have been of some help, but sorry cannot find Uni anywheres! Cheers from NSW. MA
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Hi All
I tried freebdm and I realise their lists are still being complied, but I searched with blank entry for surname and just unity as first names, with location bradford and also with location bradford upon avon from 1950 to 1983 nil results. I will try thinking outside the square (so to say !) and get back shortly. MA
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Hi, I had to call an ambulance for Mum tonight because her chest pains were too much. The hospital has given her strong painkillers and sleeping pills so things should look better in the morning! Told her she had to behave and not do anything silly now we are this close to finding Unity. Mum smiled and said it was probably all todays excitement!
I am happy to search sites if someone can point me in the right direction, I checked all the deaths from 1960 -1973 Yorkshire... hoping that covers Bradford today.. no luck. Shirley
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Hi Jan and Shirley,
You two take care of your Mum, if you need to keep yourselves busy, umm, there are good links on rootschat under the resources of each county. I will try to add links here, but rootschat must be very busy, has taken me about half an hour to get back on, after waiting for ages while my ancestry sub was under maintenance! (Of course, lots of chatters, all interested in various aspects of family history! enjoy!, sorry I cannot find Uni :'( but I know that you know I am doing my best........... ::)
START here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/
Scroll down and notice ENGLAND (or any topic for that matter !)
Clink on a county that you think might be where Uni may have lived eg Nottinghamshire Its link would be:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,324.0.html
And just look at some of the topics for example I have just noticed there is one with a heading Images of Nottinghamshire, and its at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,336706.0.html
and when you clink on it, it is an external link, out of rootschat for it takes you to http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/ where just by following the "guff" you can get to images of places that Uni would have known when she lived in Nottingham!
Cheers, MA
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Hi All,
I have been looking, but not found any more info, sorry. I will try again tomorrow evening (its 11 pm here in NSW, Sunday evening. Cheers, MA (just tidied up my profile)
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hi there . we have found Unity's son and he says she died 1963 in bradford . we are going to keep in touch and he will send us her death cert . at this point we dont know where she was buried but should be able to find out .
thnaks everyone for the help.
jan .
ps . can any of you go onto ancestery and pass on my email to the jutsum/de irujo reserachers . we tried to contact the ones in scandanavia but no repsponse . please pm me if you can .
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Could I please remind everyone about NOT putting details of possibly still living people on these threads.
It's one RC rule we really must adhere to.
Thanks all.
Barbara
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It's that time of the week again Hunters and here it is.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,376734.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
Barbara
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Hi all. I am still looking for parents of Captain Charles Jonesb. 1782 15th hussars .. a ancestry tree does have them but when submitters are asked for prove they are evasive. i think they have all hit the hint button ...
i discovered the story of Unity which was convoluted and involved several marriages and names and ages. But as many people concerned are still living I will respect the privacy deserved .But I now have an on going relationship with her son and have visited him in England and we hope he will come to NZ 2013. Wonderful.
Frances Augusta de irujo ,after being denied a father (Captain Charles Jones denial of 21 years ) is baptised as an adult as Frances Augusta JONES with his blessing in 1839.
so i still have the brick wall of captain Jones parents and financial source but there are several of us on the trail so it will turn up one day . I think the hints are still in the William brasier Jones family tree somewhere. Thanks Fred
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Hi >Just re read these posts. So out of interest i did find Unity C
Williams/evans/connelly /Pretty . she had died as ken said and i found her burial place. my mother left england in 1952. she wrote to uni in 1958 but sent letter to wrong address. uni had left mr connelly and married another man Uni died in 1961. Mum visited England 1991 to find she uni was dead. i contacted Unitys son by phone since these posts and have visited him several times in England and also aunty unitys grave . It was a different world in the 50 and 60s ... it was financially unheard of to phone home and once mum had lost the address that was that . i am glad i have contacted
Uni son and made great family connection . Fred.
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Hi Frederickay, I'm researching Jones as well, it seemed he had a very eventful life!
Still trying to piece together a bit more about his fall-out with Cumberland, if you know anything?
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If you post another thing you might be able to send me pm as I can’t put my e mail me , there are many letters in Hull niversity and in Columbia as Seliman or something similar , if you follow my Lavinia de Irujo stories you will find a lot about him , there is the confession of Cumberland murder of Sellis in the Windsor archives , I have read it but have to say it was obscure and I have lost it in the screeds of paperwork , the letters from Hull not only have his obsession with Lavinia but also his correspondence about his wages etc , I have read his son Ernest original diary in the Manchester library , Ernest did not know where his father came from or his family according to the diary , Jones is buried in Kendal Green and his wife , it is a large flat stone , I think Jones suicided , he did not get insurance paid out , he also had nearly died in the Nov previously of a laudanum overdose , I have a letter ,, copy ,, here to his daughter Frances aka Fanny ,,, were he explains he has the gift of being invisible for an hour a day once a year , it visited in this moment , the gift of invisibility was given to him by an hermit in the Pyrenees, ho hum ,, after twenty years of bad mouthing Lavinia his paramour ,,, my gt gt gt gt grandmother for twenty years he accepts her daughter Frances gets her baptised and when he signs his letters it as Her father in VISIBILITY AND INVISIBILITY . . Anyway I have all sorts but still no proof of his parents , someone has on Ancestery said an assumption and many people have run with it , I would be very happy to see it in writing , he may have ties to Sudbury Suffolk but I have had a very thorough search for the records to no actual paper proof , a letter I have puts his birthday as the 7 th Dec and his grave says in his 60 th year , get n touch if you have questions , I put his name in google books and a very full court martial came up for Col , Quentin and our Jones was a witness which bought him to life , I also have copied pages from his journal the retreat of Corunna , it all brings him very much to life , bye , fred ,