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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Nicknoodle on Monday 20 April 09 11:43 BST (UK)

Title: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Nicknoodle on Monday 20 April 09 11:43 BST (UK)
Dear all,

I hope that someone is able to help me find more information on Moss Maria GREAD.
I know that she was born about 1825 and was still living in 1901, but I am unable to access the 1901 census.
Is someone able to look her up in any census?
Or find her marriage or death entries?

Thank you in advance.

Kindest regards,
Nick GREAD
Christchurch
New Zealand
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Monday 20 April 09 12:08 BST (UK)
Hi Nick,

1901
RG13/1680 68 46
Prittlewell, Essex
Cossington Rd
Sunnyholm Weetcliff on Sea

Charles J Gread, head, 43, House Estate Agent, b. Poplar
Rosina M do., wife, 44, b. St Pancras
Rosina G do., dau, 16, b. Poplar
Frank S do., son, 14, Commercial Clerk, b. do.
Robert E do., son, 12, b. do.
Alfred S do., son, 10, b. do.
Lily E do., dau, 5, b. do.
Moss Maria L, mother in law, wid, 76, b. Bethnal Green

Makes you wonder wether Moss is in fact her surname (but Rosina married Charles as Rosina Mary Stebbing in Sep 1881)

 :)
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Monday 20 April 09 12:18 BST (UK)
Back in 1881, Rosina Stebbing's mother is Maria:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=15506424
RG11/501 77 18

A Maria Louisa Stebbing marries in Poplar in 1888, but the possible spouses William Inns or William Chipperfield  and I can't see a remarriage for Maria Louisa Inns or Chipperfield to a Moss ... :-\
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 20 April 09 12:23 BST (UK)
Hi,

Could the "Moss" be a badly written/transcribed "Inns"?   If so there is this on FreeBMD:

Deaths:

Maria Louisa  Inns    DecQ   1904    Rochford  4a   357     (age 79)

Prittlewell is in the Rochford area.


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Monday 20 April 09 12:35 BST (UK)
Hi Nanny Jan  :)

The name doesn't look like Inns but I agree it remains the most likely explanation.

(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=370538.0;id=136171)
The first letter is different from the M in Maria but the same as the M in Merchant

 :)
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: nanny jan on Monday 20 April 09 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi Tati,


Back to square one then.......... :-\


Nanny Jan
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 12:49 BST (UK)
not seen her in 1891 - LOL, transcribed James ...

actual surname Inns... a Widow, born c1826, Bethnal Green

RG12/328; Folio 81; Page 52 - Bromley / Poplar
88, Levan Road


poor Charles Gread has both Mothers at home  ....  :D
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Monday 20 April 09 12:55 BST (UK)
Hiya LKL! :-*

Can you see a marriage to a Moss by any chance, or shall we decide it's just an enumeration mistake?
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 12:57 BST (UK)
think it must be a mistake - given NJ's Death Index find ?

also cant find her first marriage to James Stebbing - they are together with a 7 and 5 year old Rosina born St Panc in the 1861* Census in Bromley (Bow / POplar area) .... so it may have to be Rosinas Birth Cert to reveal Maria L's maiden name ....


* 1861 -  RG9/300; Folio: 55; Page: 31
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 12:59 BST (UK)
Births Mar 1856   
 
STEBBING  Rosina Mary    St Pancras  v1b p92
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 13:04 BST (UK)
Rosina's older bro' Charles (on the 1861 census) - middle name may be a clue ...

Births Jun 1854 
 
STEBBING  Charles Napier      St Pancras  v1b p84
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 13:12 BST (UK)
Bet this was them in 1851 !

1851 - HO107/1505; Folio: 27; Page: 11- Hackney

James Stebbing WIDOWER 47 Head Omnibus Conducter  Ratcliff
James* Stebbing    15 son Hackney
Mary Stebbing    5 dau do
Joseph H Stebbing    2 son do
Eliza A Stebbing    5 Mo dau do

Maria L Lymes UnMarried 23 Visitor Bethnal Green



* This son James is back at home in the 1871 census - RG10/573; Folio: 76; Page: 36 - Bromley St Leonard / Poplar
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 13:27 BST (UK)
cant see her in 1841 tho .......  :(
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Monday 20 April 09 13:41 BST (UK)
Back in 1881, Rosina Stebbing's mother is Maria:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=15506424
RG11/501 77 18

A Maria Louisa Stebbing marries in Poplar in 1888, but the possible spouses William Inns or William Chipperfield  and I can't see a remarriage for Maria Louisa Inns or Chipperfield to a Moss ... :-\

If she did marry a William Inns, this could be a likely match rsulting in widowhood in 1901

Deaths Sep 1894   
Inns  William  81  Hendon  3a 105
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Monday 20 April 09 13:42 BST (UK)
Great find anyway, LKL!  :D

How about:

Maria Louisa Symes
Birth 3 Aug 1824, christening 29 Aug 1824
Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father Joseph Symes, mother Mary

 :)
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Monday 20 April 09 14:11 BST (UK)
think it must be a mistake - given NJ's Death Index find ?

also cant find her first marriage to James Stebbing - they are together with a 7 and 5 year old Rosina born St Panc in the 1861* Census in Bromley (Bow / POplar area) .... so it may have to be Rosinas Birth Cert to reveal Maria L's maiden name ....


* 1861 -  RG9/300; Folio: 55; Page: 31

These are likely births (ie Stebbing in Pancras 1850-60)

Births Jun 1851   
Stebbing  Edwin    St.Pancras  1 398   

Births Jun 1854   
STEBBING  Charles Napier     St Pancras  1b 84   

Births Mar 1856   
STEBBING  Rosina Mary     St Pancras  1b 92
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Monday 20 April 09 14:14 BST (UK)
hmmm and 1840-50

Births Dec 1840   
Stebbing  Grace    St Pancras  1 302   

Births Jun 1841   
Stebbing  Alfred William     St Pancras  1 253   

Births Dec 1842   
STEBBING  Edward Charles     St.Pancras  1 315   

Births Sep 1844   
STEBBING  Christopher     St Pancras  1 316   

Births Mar 1846   
Stebbing  Thomas     St Pancras  1 343   

Births Sep 1847   
Stebbing  Charlotte     St Pancras  1 265   

Births Dec 1848   
Stebbing  Blanche Agnes     St Pancras  1 335   

With James' birth date in 1836 these  aren't his children but they do show Stebbings' are around Pancras


Just seen the 1881, James was born in 1804 so these childen could be his
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Monday 20 April 09 14:26 BST (UK)
Bet this was them in 1851 !

1851 - HO107/1505; Folio: 27; Page: 11- Hackney

James Stebbing WIDOWER 47 Head Omnibus Conducter  Ratcliff
James* Stebbing    15 son Hackney
Mary Stebbing    5 dau do
Joseph H Stebbing    2 son do
Eliza A Stebbing    5 Mo dau do

Maria L Lymes UnMarried 23 Visitor Bethnal Green



* This son James is back at home in the 1871 census - RG10/573; Folio: 76; Page: 36 - Bromley St Leonard / Poplar


Likely death of James:

Deaths Dec 1884   
Stebbing  James  46  Stepney  1c 319


Likely death of James:

Deaths Dec 1882   
Stebbing  James  77  Poplar

Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Monday 20 April 09 16:01 BST (UK)
Nice one Tati - I double checked the 1851 and was 99% deffo an L - but as often seen, you cant trust em  ;)

William, if you had looked at the two posts twixt you ones you quote, you'd have seen the relevant St Pancras Birth Index entries   :P
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Monday 20 April 09 16:04 BST (UK)
Nice one Tati - I double checked the 1851 and was 99% deffo an L - but as often seen, you cant trust em  ;)

William, if you had looked at the two posts twixt you ones you quote, you'd have seen the relevant St Pancras Birth Index entries   :P

yeah see them now, I was just engrossed in trying to get an angle in to find the maiden name ...... but alas to no avail.

 :(
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Nicknoodle on Monday 20 April 09 21:14 BST (UK)
WOW! I awoke this morning to find all this information here from my post last night. I thank you all so much for your time and the research you have all done. I will go to work now and tonight I will carefully go through the information posted.

Many thanks
Kindest regards,
Nick
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Nicknoodle on Tuesday 21 April 09 08:07 BST (UK)
Dear all,

Thank you again for all your help.
I am slowly going through the information posted. It is all beginning to come together.
There are probably still more questions than answers but wow what a great help you have all been. I honestly can not thank you enough.

It is extremely interesting to note if we look at Maria's surname being SYMES then if I trace the GREAD surname I see that a GREAD married a SYMES in Devon!! Perhaps Maria is a descendant of this same SYMES family?
I also see that some of this SYMES family actually went to London!
Wow! Its getting more and more facinating by the minute.

Would by chance would anyone be able to look up Joseph and Mary SYMES in the 1841 or 1851 census and see if they were born in London or Devon?

LKL are you able to please send me more details of the census information you have found as I can see this being of further help to me.

Regards
Nick.

Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: williamscdr on Tuesday 21 April 09 08:27 BST (UK)
Great find anyway, LKL!  :D

How about:

Maria Louisa Symes
Birth 3 Aug 1824, christening 29 Aug 1824
Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London
Father Joseph Symes, mother Mary

 :)

Morning all,

What do we think of this 1841 census return?

Piece: HO107/1188/5 Place: Westbury -Wiltshire Enumeration District: 14
Civil Parish: Westbury Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 23 Page: 13
Address: Upper Road

SIMS, Joseph, M, 40,  Outside Census County 
Mary, F, 35             
Maria, F, 19               
Emma, F, 15         
Louisa, F, 11             
Sidney, M, 5             
Joshua, M, 2           
JEFFRIES, Geo, M, 15   (Woollen) Foreman         

All born outside census county
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Nicknoodle on Tuesday 21 April 09 08:57 BST (UK)
Oh that certainly looks probable. Many thanks for that.
Hopefully someone is able to look up other census years to confirm other details.
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Necromancer on Tuesday 21 April 09 09:03 BST (UK)
There you go  :)

1891 - RG12/328; Folio 81; Page 52 - Bromley (Poplar District)
88, Levan Road


Charles Gread    33 Head Commision Agent Poplar
Rosina Gread    34 Wife
Charles Gread    7 son Poplar
Rosina Gread    5 dau do
Frank Gread    4 son do
Robert Gread    3 son do
Alfred Gread    6/12 son do

Elizabeth Butler  WIDOW 71 Mother Bethnal Green
Maria Inns  WIDOW 65  Mother In Law do
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Nicknoodle on Tuesday 21 April 09 09:42 BST (UK)
Thank you for that. Yes poor old Charles having both mothers there. lol
Title: Re: Moss Maria GREAD Look Up Please
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 21 April 09 11:00 BST (UK)
What do we think of this 1841 census return?

Piece: HO107/1188/5 Place: Westbury -Wiltshire Enumeration District: 14
Civil Parish: Westbury Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 23 Page: 13
Address: Upper Road

SIMS, Joseph, M, 40,  Outside Census County 
Mary, F, 35             
Maria, F, 19               
Emma, F, 15         
Louisa, F, 11             
Sidney, M, 5             
Joshua, M, 2           
JEFFRIES, Geo, M, 15   (Woollen) Foreman         

All born outside census county

Hmmm. 1851 has them born Wiltshire  :-\

1851
HO107/1842 431 14
Westbury, Wiltshire

Mary Sims, head, wid, 48, Labourer in Cloth Factory, b. Westbury
Sidney, son, 15, ditto, b. do.
Joshua, son, 12, scholar, b. do.
William Haywood, lodger, unm, 17, Labourer in Cloth Factory, b. do.