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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Draigcoch on Saturday 18 April 09 23:20 BST (UK)

Title: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Saturday 18 April 09 23:20 BST (UK)
I have just recieved a Death cert of GGGran and her death occured by falling down the stairs and she died aged 39 in the hospital of the Cardiff Union Workhouse parish of John the Baptist, does this mean they were an inmate?

Also would anyone know where the likely burial would have been.
She had two young children who were in a Foster home in Cardiff.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 19 April 09 00:02 BST (UK)
Hi

You don't give details of any dates so this is general info.

If she was a widow - it's possible that she was a Workhouse inmate prior to her death but it's likely the children would also have been inmates and remained so after her death

However - if she had a fall at home or elsewhere - she may have been admitted to the Workhouse infirmary for care hence the children being fostered
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: osprey on Sunday 19 April 09 14:52 BST (UK)
if her death was 1913 or later, you can get a free search here

www.rootschat.com/links/063r/

Before that date, you need to pay. Records from Cardiff Burial Board 1859 onwards are in the record office

www.rootschat.com/links/063s/
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Monday 20 April 09 13:52 BST (UK)
Thank you for the replies.

The death took place in January 1900.

The children were in a foster home on 1901 census in parish of St John the Divine, 453 Cowbridge Road, Canton, Cardiff, they were 6 and 12 years of age.

I would like to know more of the home and the workhouse and do the buildings still exist.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 21 April 09 01:04 BST (UK)
Hi

Quote
I would like to know more of the home and the workhouse and do the buildings still exist.

Have a look at this link

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/

Click on Workhouse Locations from the left hand menu and then select Welsh Poor Law Unions
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Ruth T on Tuesday 21 April 09 10:13 BST (UK)
Hi

This link should take you to the current view of Cardiff Workhouse as seen on Google Streetview.  Only the facade remains with new housing recently built behind it.  The workhouse became St David's Hospital so if the link doesn't work (I'm no very good with such things!) try looking for St David's Hospital, Cowbridge Road East, Cardiff.
 
 Google maps  (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=St+Davids+Hospital,+Cowbridge+Rd+E,+Cardiff,+Cardiff+CF11,+United+Kingdom&sll=51.481276,-3.191271&sspn=0.011279,0.027637&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FRSOEQMdx0nP_w&split=0&ll=51.485231,-3.192387&spn=0.011278,0.027637&z=15&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=51.480973,-3.193093&panoid=2OjMhQkSbqkg79gSltdf_w&cbp=12,24.16754200257237,,0,-4.503105590062118)

The records of Cardiff Union Workhouse are held at the Glamorgagn Record Office in Cardiff.  They may be able to shed more light on your family history.



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Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Tuesday 21 April 09 15:33 BST (UK)
Thanks for the help Ruth & Carole, much appreciated,I will have a look through and see what I can find, be nice to get some background.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Monday 27 April 09 16:47 BST (UK)
An Inquest was held on 6th Jan 1900 in Cardiff into this accidental death, would I be able to get a copy of the inquest? and where and who would I contact, also would there have been a newspaper report of the death and which newspaper is it likely to be in.
Just need some pointers in which direction to go now.

Seeing the children were in the home on 1901 census, would there be any records available from
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: osprey on Tuesday 28 April 09 18:56 BST (UK)
for newspapers, the Western Mail and I think Cardiff central library has a collection
 
www.rootschat.com/links/066f/

the record office seem only to have inquests 1951 - 1972 for Cardiff, but it may be worth a call to double check

http://www.glamro.gov.uk/where%20are%20we.html
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Tuesday 28 April 09 23:57 BST (UK)
Thank you Osprey for your help I have e-mailed them will let you know outcome, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: mazzie74 on Thursday 30 April 09 19:46 BST (UK)
Hi,

The Glamorgan Record Office had inquests into two of my relatives in 1893 and 1910.

The only Workhouse records that survive for Cardiff Union Workhouse are the 6 monthly lists, which basically state how many days in each 6 monthly period an inmate spent in the workhouse.

My Gt-Gt Grandfather spent 41 days in the 6 monthly period ending October 1906.

His father was not an inmate, but received 7 shillings a week "out-relief."

Thanks,

Darin.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Wednesday 13 May 09 10:33 BST (UK)
I have had a reply from the Library in Cardiff, they have certain records but it would cost £15 per hour to look and would probably take 2 hrs, I think £30.00 is a bit costly, I will have to put that on a back burner for now.

They also said they have no records of the Cottage homes but didn't say who would have them!

I have since made contact with a family member in Cardiff and I am waiting for a reply from him, he is not very well so I shall have to be patient.

Thanks for the help anyway, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: toni* on Wednesday 13 May 09 11:02 BST (UK)
found this interesting bit of info. on Workhouses.org

From around 1904, the Registrar General advised local registration officers that where a child was born in the workhouse, there should be no indication of this on the child's birth certificate. Instead, the place of birth was recorded as a euphemistic street address. For example, births at Liverpool Workhouse were recorded as having taken place at 144A Brownlow Hill — no such street address actually existed. Similarly, Nottingham Workhouse used an address of 700 Hucknall Road for this purpose. The same practice was also later adopted for recording the place of death for anyone who died in the workhouse
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: slyvia on Saturday 16 May 09 21:50 BST (UK)
Hello

I was able to go to the Library in Cardiff today but am disappointed that I could not find any thing in the South Wales Echo in January for you. I checked through the whole month.  Maybe it will be in the Western Mail I will try again as soon as I can.

Sylvia
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Saturday 16 May 09 22:53 BST (UK)
That is so kind of you Sylvia, I appreciate your help, I really would like to find out more.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: slyvia on Sunday 17 May 09 09:11 BST (UK)
Hello

Thanks for your reply but when I woke up this morning it suddenly came to me that I had been looking at 1930 instead of 1900.  I have given myself a
good telling off and will have another look as soon as I am able.
I think the 1930 was in my mind as I had an uncle who died as a result of
falling down the stairs at the City Lodge whilst he was working there.
My Nanna who also did cleaning at the hospital had got a job for him and
used to get very upset when she talked about it. She died there in the 1950's.

Sylvia
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Sunday 17 May 09 10:15 BST (UK)
Thats ok Sylvia, with so many names and dates in our heads it's easy to get sidetracked. I am just thankful for your help, there is family in Cardiff and I would like to find them.

Violetta Frances Charlotte Ellard died on 5th January 1900, 9 days after her fall.

It's a very sad story really as she was widowed when her husband drowned 4 months before my hubbys granddad was born, (she also had 4 other children) and then to lose his mother when he was 6, he never spoke about it to anyone, he was a kind gentle man who lived to the age of 82.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: slyvia on Sunday 17 May 09 22:49 BST (UK)
Hello

I am sending you a PM as I have found something you might wish to see.


Sylvia
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: sbrewster4 on Friday 11 February 11 22:48 GMT (UK)
MyGG Grandmother was a foster mother at 455 Cowbridge Road. It seems that she was looking after 11 children.

Obviously Cowbridge Road is now split into east and west. Does anyone know where the current location of these houses are or where they were?

Thanks
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Lesleyann on Wednesday 24 March 21 14:51 GMT (UK)
If you're looking for burials, Cardiff City Council have an excellent search facility. You can download a form from their bereavement department. You can ask for five searches for twenty pounds and they search all cemeteries. I've recently had some searches done and they sent me a copy of the entry in the burial book, including the actual cost of the funeral and plans of the cemetery - Cathays in this instance - with the relevant graves highlighted.  There is a plan of the whole cemetery and one of the relevant section. It was all done by a very helpful lady called Elaine.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: slyvia on Wednesday 24 March 21 18:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you Lesleyann

Sylvia
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 27 March 21 13:35 GMT (UK)
News

 Cite

 A bit late and you might already have this.
South Wales News.  8 January 1930

FATAL FALL DOWNSTAIRS. Mr E. H. Reece, coroner, conducted an inquest at Cardiff Town Hall on Saturday on the body of Violetta F. C. Ellard (39) a widow, who resided at 17, Herbert-street. From the evidence it appeared that on the day after Christmas she fell while walking upstairs. Elizabeth Hayes, another occupant of the house, picked her up, and deceased seemed to be none the worse for the fail. Three days later, however, she complained of giddiness, and was advised to go into the Union Iniirmary. There she became unconscious, and died on January 6th. Dr. Campbell Jenkins said that deceased had sustained a fracture of the skull, A verdict of "Accidental death" was returned. ,

Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 27 March 21 14:15 GMT (UK)
Should be 1900.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 27 March 21 15:03 GMT (UK)
Burial Date:10 Jan 1900
St Mary the Virgin Cardiff
Glamorganshire, Wales

I'm probably giving information you have by now but it's a sad story.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: slyvia on Saturday 27 March 21 15:49 GMT (UK)
I have just checked by typing in 455 Cowbridge Road West and there are a row of houses
all black and white . The home for children must have been demolished and these built in its
place.

Sylvia
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Lesleyann on Saturday 27 March 21 16:36 GMT (UK)
I have today received the result of a burial search by Cardiff City Council as I mentioned above. It was for someone who died in 1889 in the same workhouse you are enquiring about. He is buried in a pauper's grave in Cathays Cemetery in Cardiff. The chances are your lady will be in the same place. With a pauper's grave it is very unlikely there will be a headstone so, if you want to locate the grave, a search will have to be undertaken. The cemetery is vast so you could spend years looking even for graves with headstones.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 27 March 21 17:18 GMT (UK)
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~cdfplacesofworship/genealogy/pow/cdfbutetwnstmaryststephen.html

This confirms it could be Cathay.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Monday 29 March 21 18:41 BST (UK)
Wilcoxon, Thank you so much for this info, your a star. I caught my breath when I saw it, I put it to one side as I got nowhere. It is a very sad story that had a happy ending, her son who was about 6 went to a cottage home as I said, joined the army in 1914 was posted to North Wales and met the love of his life and had 4 Children, many grandchildren and was a kind caring grandfather to my husband.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 29 March 21 19:32 BST (UK)
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3744698/3744701/20/

I'm so glad you saw it,  it is a long time. 🙂
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 29 March 21 19:35 BST (UK)
Eliizabeth Hayes was at the same address in 1901, her husband was Cornelius.  I had a nosey but couldn't find an obviousv connection between them and Violetta.
Title: Re: Workhouse Death
Post by: Draigcoch on Monday 29 March 21 20:02 BST (UK)
I will look into that I know Violetta was widowed maybe a married sister or in laws. My mother in law was named after her.