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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Flakdodger on Saturday 18 April 09 18:58 BST (UK)
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This piccie comes from a chum who would like to identify the unit - and date.
Females outnumber the soldiers (there is one uniformed female - 2nd row to the left, holding the dog). The ladies appear to be clad for admin duties, rather than the munitions factory.
The wallpaper merchants in the background [S M Bryde] were identified as being at Hanover Square., London. This was possibly a Registered Office.
However, further digging has unearthed the site as the grounds of The Mill Hill Unitarian Chapel, Park Road, Leeds.
The group are sited between the Chapel and Royal Exchange House, with Basinghall Street behind them (and Bryde's on the far side of Basinghall Street).
My thoughts are that these folk might be Military Post - the General Post Office being across the other side of City Square.
Any ideas?
Dave
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HI
This is not military help but have you considered submitting your photo to this website of images in and around the Leeds area
http://www.leodis.net/
Wendy
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Well....I don't think it is a Postal thingy mate...
The post was handled by the Royal Engineers, and although I can make out around x4 different cap badges, I can't see the semblance of a RE one...
Thoughts...
As it is the centre of town, was there a YMCA building hard by, where the women (and the civvy chaps) were volunteers, and this was a clear space near by to take a photograph?
An War Comforts group with an amount of the soldiers provided for...
Factory volunteers who returned, and the workers / WAGS left behind...
I would say that this pic is no earlier than late 1917...
Is the company still extant?
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Have posted link on Yorkshire Indexers..theres a wealth of knowledge about Leeds stuff on there.
Ady
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Wendy, Scrim and Ady,
thanks for your guidance.
Wendy, I have just been looking at leodis.net, which is mind blowing (and plenty of photos of the City Square area). I will suggest to my mate that submitting the piccie to them would be a capital idea.
Scrimmers, Ah, date no earlier than late 1917. YMCA will be checked out.
I thought, too, that it was a convenient space for a photo, yet City square is more open.
Googling Bryde's brings up Scandinavian web sites, so maybe they operate out of that region now.
Ady, thank you for your kindness in posting a link on Yorkshire Indexers.
Cheers to you all,
Dave
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Wendy, Scrim and Ady,
thanks for your guidance.
Wendy, I have just been looking at leodis.net, which is mind blowing (and plenty of photos of the City Square area). I will suggest to my mate that submitting the piccie to them would be a capital idea.
Scrimmers, Ah, date no earlier than late 1917. YMCA will be checked out.
I thought, too, that it was a convenient space for a photo, yet City square is more open.
Googling Bryde's brings up Scandinavian web sites, so maybe they operate out of that region now.
Ady, thank you for your kindness in posting a link on Yorkshire Indexers.
Cheers to you all,
Dave
City Sq may be more open, but what about the traffic??? ;D
Anyway, that is why I went for the last thought of the "Workers Return"...Perhaps a compare and contrast of the x2 most senior officers in the middle might show a likeness to the company bosses??
Might well still be the returning workers theory.... ;) ;D
Or on leave of course!
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I'm still hung up on the typical military heirachy of the placement layout in the group. If it is a returning workers photo, the company certainly has a preponderance of sergeants...
Oh, I forgot to say thanks for the observation that RE ran the forces postal service. :-[
Dave
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I'm still hung up on the typical military heirachy of the placement layout in the group. If it is a returning workers photo, the company certainly has a preponderance of sergeants...
Oh, I forgot to say thanks for the observation that RE ran the forces postal service. :-[
Dave
With all those women at that place, I would expect that they needed a good slack handful of supervisory chaps to keep them in order and to stop them gossiping... ;D
Supervisory roles at work, would lead to supervisory role in the army...Anyway perhaps they were just good at their job!
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With all those women at that place, I would expect that they needed a good slack handful of supervisory chaps to keep them in order and to stop them gossiping... ;D
My word, I won't tell the thought Police, lets hope no-one else does. :o :o :o ;D
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With all those women at that place, I would expect that they needed a good slack handful of supervisory chaps to keep them in order and to stop them gossiping... ;D
My word, I won't tell the thought Police, lets hope no-one else does. :o :o :o ;D
Don't worry Dave ...... I'm watchin' him !! ::)
Couldn't be a choir or something could it ?? .... looks like theres all types there !! :-\
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HI Flakdoger
Has your friend considered maybe asking the local paper of Leeds if they would print it one of their editons?
It might just catch someones eye who hasn't got access to the internet
Wendy
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As someone who has family connections of nearly 180 years confirmed connections with Mill Hill Chapel up until 1880ish, I'm very fascinated by the photo and the story.
Glen
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Wendy,
yes we are going down the route of local inquiries, and will certainly post any results on this thread.
Glen,
you definitely need to visit http://www.leodis.net/
(http://www.leodis.net/) I think you will be thrilled at the photographic coverage, and much more.
Cheers
Dave
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That's a fabulous photo for anyone interested in women's fashion..Edwardian ladies are so often depicted in their long fancy dresses.....it's not often you see such a variety of "every-day" civilian dress as that.... some of it looks quite contemporary. And the simple hairstyles are very interesting too.
Milly ;D
PS - Behave Scrimnet ::) ::) ::)
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The men appear to be from lots of different regiments - must have been quite a logistical job to organise a photo when they were all home. Perhaps that means it is towards the end of the war/ just post war? Although they don't look too happy so perhaps not around armistice time? (Just a thought for what it's worth)
Milly ;D
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That's a fabulous photo for anyone interested in women's fashion..Edwardian ladies are so often depicted in their long fancy dresses.....it's not often you see such a variety of "every-day" civilian dress as that.... some of it looks quite contemporary. And the simple hairstyles are very interesting too.
Milly ;D
PS - Behave Scrimnet ::) ::) ::)
I would if I could, but I kent so I shent, so I ain't agunna!!!
Anyone would think she was vying for the post of "SWMBO" ::) ::) ::) ::)
It is indeed a good reference point for any WW1 female living historians out there...Or indeed budding ones...
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Just an update for followers of this thread.
An article in the Yorkshire Evening Post produced one response - which shifted the site of the photo to the northern wall of the Chapel, so placing it 'twixt Priestly Hall and the Chapel.
Further digging found:
http://www.millhillchapel.org.uk/chapel_history.htm
where it is stated:
"During the Great War, Priestly Hall and school were adopted for wartime use from 1915 to 1919".
An e-mail exchange with them provided no further info.
So we know where and when - but not who and why.
Ah well...
Dave
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Dear Flakdodger
Sorry this is such an old link but I have just found it. The photograph you showed appeared in Your Family Tree magazine a few years ago and I was able to obtain a larger detailed picture to analyze. In front of the seated people are a number of gravestones which I was able to manipulate using photoshop to help identify them. One of the gravestones is to Henry John Sykes aged 3 who died in 1830, son of Samuel and Sophia Sykes. The only one I can find who matches this description was born in London in 1826 around St Mary-le-Bow. so perhaps it is not Leeds but London. I am attaching the photo. What do you think?
Duncan
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Hi Again Flakdodger
Here is the original somewhat reduced in quality
Duncan39
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Hello Duncan39,
thanks for your PM. I am a very rare visitor to Rootschat nowadays, so otherwise I would have missed your postings.
What is the source of your Henry John Sykes? I can't follow it on FindMyPast nor Apecestry.
I am still sticking to my guns regarding Leeds.
Go to Google street view - search on Park Row Leeds (southern end). You will see the right hand side of the black and white photo in full 2012 technicolour.
Regards
Dave
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Hi Flakdodger
Found Henry John Sykes on Family Search of the Parish Records around 1825. He met the criteria for date and parents. I shall look at Google street view. I wonder if those gravestones are still there in Leeds? That would be confirmation.
Regards
Duncan 39
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Henry John Sykes
Born 18 Feb 1827
Baptism: 15 Mar 1827
Father : Samuel Sykes, 49 Bow Lane, Manufacturer
Mother Sophia Sykes
Parish: St Mary Le Bow
London Parish registers
Milly
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Hi Flakdodger
Have looked at both Leeds Park Chapel and St Mary le Bow Churches on street view and photographs. The buttresses match on both with original photo BUT neither match the windows which on the original have 2 per space but have a square top to the windows alcove. I will check if St Mary le Bow had its windows replaced after the war. So it looks to me if we have not found the correct church so far.
Duncan39
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Hi Flackdodger
Have done some more research.
Samuel Sykes married Sophia Browne 30 Jul 1822 St Peters' Church, Leeds
Samuel Sykes and Sophia had the following children christened in London, St Mary-le-Bow
1. James Sykes 27 Jul 1823
2. Caroline Ann Sykes 29 Apr 1825
3. Henry John Sykes 15 Mar 1827 (he of the gravestone) Father a merchant
Samuel Sykes and Sophia had the following children christened at St Peter's in Leeds
4. Harriet Sykes 08 Oct 1828
5. Sophia Sykes 06 Dec 1830
Samuel Sykes and Sophia Browne had the following child at Mill Hill Chapel, Leeds
6. Frederick Sykes 24 Sep 1834
Also in a Leeds 1837 Directory is a Samuel Sykes, Merchant.
Is it possible that Samuel and Sophia married in Leeds, went to London, came back and when Henry John Sykes died moved from St Peter's to the Chapel?
Could it be that the Church we are looking for is St Peter's. I had a quick look on Google Street view and it does have similar windows to the picture but could not see all of it because of trees?
So back to Leeds it is.
As to the photograph:- There are over 90 people on it which makes me think it is quite a large organization. Mill perhaps.
Will have a detailed look at every person for clues.
Duncan 39
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St Peter
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bettsy1970/2306003672/
Mill Hill
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bettsy1970/2263116435/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bettsy1970/2263905532/in/photostream/
Milly
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Thank you Milly
Not sure if either fits the bill exactly...if the buttresses are right the windows are wrong and vice versa. We really need to see all four sides and of course things might have changed from 1920!
Duncan
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Hi Duncan39,
We are aware that you are trying to access your account by requesting a new password but sadly the password is bouncing back to us because we only have an old email address :'(
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Regards
Sarah